| Would you be happy to spy on shoplifters to earn money?
Posted: 10/6/2009 3:29:23 PM | The general public in Stratford upon Avon are soon to be able to earn money
by spying on shoplifters in their own homes through the use of CCTV equipment!
If viewers stop a crime in progress an incentive of £1,000 cash could be on offer.
However civil liberties groups have blasted the idea as being "distasteful".
The operators of the new scheme claim it is all about crime prevention only.
Would you be happy to spy on shoplifters to earn money in the comfort of your own home?
Or do you think it would be distasteful to snoop on members of the public for financial gain?
Although we have discussed CCTV before many times on the forum I don't think there has
ever been a topic on members of the public being able to earn money from spying on
potential shoplifters incase anybody thinks this is redundant and I also did a thread search.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8293784.stm | |
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| Would you be happy to spy on shoplifters to earn money?
Posted: 10/6/2009 3:35:28 PM | No. I wouldn't be, for the simple reason that there are people who are employed to do the job of stopping people shoplifting and dealing with the aftermath.
I haven't read the story so I obviously don't know all the details but I take it that if you stopped a crime in progress if something went to court then you would be required to appear?
It would be a different matter if someone was in a shop and they were nicking something and you happened to be there, but to sit at home and snoop just incase someone tries to steal something.
Just shows that store more store detectives are needed, surely the 1000 quid prize money could be spent employing more people to deal with shoplifters.
Edit
here's the link
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8293784.stm | |
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| Would you be happy to spy on shoplifters to earn money?
Posted: 10/6/2009 3:37:14 PM |
However civil liberties groups have blasted the idea as being "distasteful".
Yep, trust the 'civil liberties' nutters to get the wrong end of the stick - they're on the side of the criminals, as usual.
The general public in Stratford upon Avon are soon to be able to earn money
by spying on shoplifters in their own homes through the use of CCTV equipment!
So, the cameras are in the store, but the images are shown in the homes of the general public?
Where do I sign up? | |
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| Would you be happy to spy on shoplifters to earn money?
Posted: 10/6/2009 3:41:11 PM | I've looked at the link, and quite honestly it's a load of cobblers.
You spot someone shoplifting a CD at £10.99, I don't think you're going to get £1000 reward for bringing that person to justice!!
Having worked in retail I think CCTV only works as a deterrent in a few cases of opportunistic theft. Career shoplifters don't give a toss. The police turn up weeks after the event is reported and then rarely take any action from CCTV evidence alone.
It's when security guards catch shoplifters that prosecutions occur.
And it is an infringement of civil liberties. | |
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| Would you be happy to spy on shoplifters to earn money?
Posted: 10/6/2009 3:49:39 PM | A marvelous display of logic there Zee. The majority of people in shops are not shoplifters. I did not say shoplifters should be free to steal. If someone wants to buy rouge from Boots I don't think stranger in their living room should spy on them!
Why don't we all have mini cameras inserted into our heads by the State, that are turned on the minute we leave the house. It would be so much better than living under a 'commie 'government
Edit\/ \/ \/
I'm sure that people with access to the CCTV in Mothercare will be thinking of the children! | |
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| Would you be happy to spy on shoplifters to earn money?
Posted: 10/6/2009 3:54:39 PM | Ah......so shoplifters should be free to steal?
A.K.A. "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear"...
If we're going to spout pointless rhetoric, won't Somebody Please Think of the Children!?
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| Would you be happy to spy on shoplifters to earn money?
Posted: 10/6/2009 3:56:47 PM | | It seems a good idea to me and would act as a deterrent as well as everyone knows that very few of the many thousands of cameras are ever watched at present. I am not convinced I could be bothered watch the grainy images of normal people going about their business but I am sure the big brother obsessives who watched them sleep may find it entertaining and earn themselves a few quid. | |
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| Would you be happy to spy on shoplifters to earn money?
Posted: 10/6/2009 3:56:53 PM | | shoplifting? i can't say that the thought of a few drug addicts half inching a few gillette razors/rashers of bacon/whatever keeps me awake at night, and is it really going to be cost effective to start fitting peoples homes with eavesdropping equipment that allows them to catch very low grade criminals, who let's face it, even the old bill and the judiciary don't show much interest in prosecuting? stick this one in the file marked: "who cares". | |
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| Would you be happy to spy on shoplifters to earn money?
Posted: 10/6/2009 4:04:03 PM | Shoplifting is big business in certain areas.
I used to work for a major retailer and one of it's stores (which i shall not name for fear of reprisals) knew of a shoplifterwho ran a business shoplifting to order, and had people working for them too. It seemed you requested your items and they were provided .................... a bit like the personal shopping service stores provide but at a much reduced price.
Those shoplifters were taking money from the workers, by diminishing their profit share, so would I spy on them and report them? Too bloody right 
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| Would you be happy to spy on shoplifters to earn money?
Posted: 10/6/2009 4:08:29 PM |
The majority of people in shops are not shoplifters. I did not say shoplifters should be free to steal. If someone wants to buy rouge from Boots I don't think stranger in their living room should spy on them!
As opposed to a stranger in a blue uniform spying on them in a room in the store?
I don't see the difference. People enter stores and are warned that they are on CCTV. Does it really matter to them who is keeping an eye on them?
I'm sure that people with access to the CCTV in Mothercare will be thinking of the children!
And children aren't allowed in other stores?
is it really going to be cost effective to start fitting peoples homes with eavesdropping equipment that allows them to catch very low grade criminals, who let's face it, even the old bill and the judiciary don't show much interest in prosecuting?
It's not just a question of few trivial items, though. The stores lose millions each year through shoplifting. | |
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| Would you be happy to spy on shoplifters to earn money?
Posted: 10/6/2009 4:11:35 PM | | If the store could get the goods back in tact they can still claim costs through civil recovery I believe and the money that the watcher at home received I would imagine would come from that, the costs have to be realistic and I think the up to a 1k is for multiple successful arrests . If they get the goods back damage they can claim for them too. | |
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| Would you be happy to spy on shoplifters to earn money?
Posted: 10/6/2009 4:12:56 PM | I haven't read the story but I presume that anyone applying for one of these jobs would have a full back ground check done on them first?
Would they be spying on people in their local area? Would this not leave it open to abuse as people could use it as a way of getting back at someone by claiming they thought they saw something being shoplifted?
Would there be checks in place to prevent people letting others have access to the monitors?
I'm neither for nor against the idea but imo it won't happen. | |
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| Would you be happy to spy on shoplifters to earn money?
Posted: 10/6/2009 4:16:58 PM |
Would this not leave it open to abuse as people could use it as a way of getting back at someone by claiming they thought they saw something being shoplifted?
Would the CCTV stuff not be recorded? So all it takes is vigilante no 157 to say "look at this shop at such and such a time and spot your shoplifter" ................... or has the person at home got to go and citizens arrest them?
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| Would you be happy to spy on shoplifters to earn money?
Posted: 10/6/2009 4:20:46 PM | | Well considering that security officers with the responsibility to monitor CCTV are law bound to obtain a CCTV operators SIA badge (and do extra training to get it) I dont know how they are going to get round this one. Is everyone going to do the training and then fork out for the SIA badge too? Its a stalkers dream. | |
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| Would you be happy to spy on shoplifters to earn money?
Posted: 10/6/2009 4:22:09 PM | Zee, please read what I posted and do not put words in my mouth, people have been banned for less. I did not say shoplifters should be free to steal. As I said, I've worked in retail. The police pay little regard to CCTV evidence of shoplifting when presented on it's own.
Have you worked in retail? It is never a case of a person monitoring CCTV without other security personnel being on the shop floor.
Security staff are trained to look for shoplifting activity. A person in a front room could misinterpret behaviour, be malicious, be a pervert.
I'm sure a few years down the line a person might come on here and rant about how police resources are being wasted following up numerous calls from these strangers.
The proposed system is open to abuse and it's not economically viable.
I hate shoplifters, but security guards and stiffer penalities are the solution, not this.
Edit - I am not a Civil Liberties 'nutter'. This proposal is a step too far. In fact I've actually campaigned for CCTV in a crime hotspot close to where I live. But that was for CCTV that was for it to be monitored by the police! The police said it was not econmically possible. However they did use mobile CCTV and caught several criminals. | |
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| Would you be happy to spy on shoplifters to earn money?
Posted: 10/6/2009 4:27:09 PM | The biggest problem is that it has to be instantaneous from them seeing it at home and them notifying the shop, the shop has to verify it before they exit the shop.
If I see the theft now at home I am supposed to press a button to say so, I assume that the cameras will be linked to a monitoring station and they will ask me likely via email what did I see and what camera, I respond and they will then verify it took place by rewinding the cameras and they will then via radio contact the security guard at the shop via shop watch radio. How long will that take, would they not of scappered?
They also need to make sure that they are right as if you detain someone for theft and they haven't taken anything they can sue you. I think it is a good idea in theory but just can't see it working effectively and to be honest it doesn't have too as long as thieves believe it will and go else where. | |
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| Would you be happy to spy on shoplifters to earn money?
Posted: 10/6/2009 5:11:46 PM |
Well considering that security officers with the responsibility to monitor CCTV are law bound to obtain a CCTV operators SIA badge (and do extra training to get it) I dont know how they are going to get round this one. Is everyone going to do the training and then fork out for the SIA badge too?
Exactly and the CCTV badge isnt the cheapest to fund either!!!
The solution is more security guards in shops.
an example:
The Shopping centre i just finished working in has a well known big brand department store (name not mentioned for obvious reasons).
They have 4 security staff, with 2 or 3 on duty at any one time (holidays/restdays etc for rest). Now this is a large department store with 3 floors as well as 3 entrances/exits with the shopping centre.
To make things clear, the Shopping centre guards are NOT there to aprehend thiefs from the main stores and infact many of the shops refuse to allow centre guards access or use them for help.
Obviously even with a good CCTV operator in the shop, there is no way they can cover the store fully as well as having only 1 or 2 guards available on the shop floor means they cant easily respond. Also it is a fact that often thiefs work in groups with deliberate distraction techniques especially to circumvent limited numbers of security!!
This single branch of the department store chain losses £1 million a year to theft alone!!!! Thier shop security staff costs £60k per annum!!!
That £1 million is paid for by you and I having increased costs!!!!!!
Some stores dont even bother making a serious effort in stopping thefts and just write it off as budgeted "losses". A well known discount fashion clothing store is one such shop and they only prosecute when violence/abuse is used against its staff. other times they just let them go.
anyone who has done retail security management before (and i have) knows that there is simply not enough security cover to deter many of the thieves in that store (the figures are clear!!)
in a similar department store we increased the security to 2 guards per floor at all times. That needs 10/11 staff (one of which is a supervisor/team leader with good experience) with an annual cost of at worst £180k in staff. Within a year the losses due to theft were down to £300000 per year!!!
So even taking into account increased staff costs they were over half a million pounds better off each year!!!! Thats good for shareholders as well as prices and its keeping more people in a paid job as well as making life harder for criminal thieving SCUM to carry out their behaviour.
Unfortunately my experience of retail management shows that most retail managers are either incompetant or unwilling to pressure the appropriate people in thier company to get the increased security staff. It seems they are not prepared to spend without a guaranteed immediate return. They cant see what they will get now so dont want to know. And we wonder why so many business are in a mess with incompetant management like that????? | |
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| Would you be happy to spy on shoplifters to earn money?
Posted: 10/6/2009 5:18:45 PM |
Zee, please read what I posted and do not put words in my mouth, people have been banned for less.
First of all, please feel free to report me if ever I misrepresent you, although given your 'success' in that field (lmfao) it's claer that you aren't fully conversant with the site rules.
Second, I didn't put words in your mouth. I quoted you and asked a question.
HTH.
Edit - I am not a Civil Liberties 'nutter'.
OK.......then who wrote:
And it is an infringement of civil liberties.
?
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| Would you be happy to spy on shoplifters to earn money?
Posted: 10/6/2009 5:24:41 PM | Let me put this into the context that some people may understand. Let me draw an analogy.
We post on these threads. Sometimes people report us either through misinterpretation or through being malicious. Sometimes they are justified. These people reporting are strangers. The moderators look at the evidence and act with their best judgement. I don't think anyone has 100% success rate of having reported violations removed. I get reported by a stranger, get banned no big deal at the end of the day. I might by aggrieved. So what. I might rightly or wrongly think I've been done an injustice. It's not really a big deal.
A stranger viewing CCTV reports me through misintepretation or through being malicious. The police visit my house or my place of work. I might be found innocent, but a far greater damage has been done.
CCTV is a tool. And tools are open to abuse.
Edit. Suggesting that something is an infringrement of Civil Liberties does not make me a a Civil Liberties nutter, not that I would dare suggest you are implying that.
We all have variable success rates in reporting. Only the other day I reported someone for using racist language. The poster wasn't banned, but I'm glad the post was removed.
I think I have a reasonably common sense approach to the use of CCTV.
I think that my posts on this have addressed the issue .
I apologise. You did ask me a question. Questions can sometimes be a bit of a grey area. Can I ask you a question? Would you report someone if they asked you the question "When did you stop beating your wife?"?
O-Kaaaay!
HTH | |
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| Would you be happy to spy on shoplifters to earn money?
Posted: 10/6/2009 6:29:08 PM |
I apologise. You did ask me a question.
Then don't fcuking accuse me of 'misrepresentation'!
Would you report someone if they asked you the question "When did you stop beating your wife?"?
Why would I?
The answer is "I've never had a wife to beat".........so it's plain that the person asking the question was an idiot for asking me about something I've never had.
HTH | |
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| Would you be happy to spy on shoplifters to earn money?
Posted: 10/6/2009 7:11:45 PM | Yet again Zeegary the power of your rhetoric has convinced me. I have been too concerned with civil liberties and not concerned enough with civic duty.
In the following hypothetical situation,I would be only too supportive of a non-member (let's call them a stranger) , who might monitor these threads (I believe they can do that), to take copies of a post that strongly suggest that a certain ethnic group have brought emnity on themselves, and to report to the police alleged incitement to racial hatred. I believe that two British citizens have just been imprisoned for such a crime.
I don't doubt that the police (in this hypothetical situation) might be able to track down this person from Facebook connections.
Would you agree that this stranger was fulfilling their civic duty? | |
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| Would you be happy to spy on shoplifters to earn money?
Posted: 10/6/2009 9:56:35 PM | i doubt that the guard in my store would be overly happy to act on information recieved from someone else,especially who isn;t in store at the time,he uses cctv to track people he suspects and views shoplifting so he has a recording of there time in store ,concealing the item then leaving the store then he runs like a **stard to catch them outside,dependent on what they have concelaed he sometimes calls the police while observing them because it could be something they use as a weapon,if the police dont issue a fixed penalty notice,they always come back and get the cctv recording for a courtcase
we always call the police and they will either get taken to court or issued a fixed £80 penalty notice,then civil recovery,and from the people who come back in waving there letter angrily,none of those costs have ever been under £300,so expensive outing if they are caught
so yeah i doubt majority of security guards would be willing to act in store on the information from untrained people sat in their lounges watching cctv in the ad breaks of jeremy kyle,they are the ones who put themselves in danger after all | |
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