| poverty
Posted: 10/13/2009 4:14:23 PM | | I was just flipping through the new channels and I happen to stumble into CBC and catch a segment on Haiti's economic development. I was outraged at the level of poverty of that country, for a garment worker is earning at least $2 a day... The bill was hoping to push at least a $5.oo but the government refused to even budge because it would kill off the current economy... How could a corrupt government not even give these poor citizens to earn a decent living? When the cost of living is just too expensive to cope? | |
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Posted: 10/13/2009 4:40:02 PM | Have you thought of the overall ramifications of altering the economy to more than double the average person's daily salary?
I'm more likely to concern myself with things more local to me, such as volunteering for the inner city food bank or the soup kitchen rather than stressing out over something that is so far from home. I realize that to all of you bleeding hearts, this sounds cold and callous, but I challenge each of you to volunteer with the dregs of your own society for a day and then come back here and argue the point of the economic climate of a foreign country. | |
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Posted: 10/14/2009 4:28:37 AM | The western world is very much responsible for many of the third world or developing countries woes. We have continuously raped and pillaged these countries for their resources and now we use them like slaves for cheap labour.
We pay sports stars untold millions of dollars to sell running shoes we really don't need. We are the people responsble for corrupting these governments all so we can't get access to the resources and cheap labour all the while not having to worry about environmental impacts or working conditions. This has been going on for quite some time.
Another way we tend to keep them down is to subsidize our staples like corn or wheat to the point where they can't afford to grow their own food. Our big corporations put on a nice friendly face but have quite the dark side when dealing with the rest of the world.
It's funny how the average north american assumes that the rest of the world lives their daily lives like we do, the awareness is increasing but there are so many situations like Haiti it would make your head spin.
There has been an increase in food riots due to shortages and we have the gall to bytch when our pizza takes longer than thirty minutes to arrive.
We can do a lot more for these countries if we didn't but products that use this type of labour or shop locally for our foods in season. Buying strawberries all year long does more harm than good for the world than you know. | |
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Posted: 10/14/2009 9:58:54 AM | What do you expect ? It's basicly a red cross zone. They got no law and no-one to enforce it. They got no working government. And they like to practice Voo Doo on you ! So stay the hell away from there.
Oh shush !! Clickon-baby. Blame everything on the west. Canada has become the bandaid of the world. We can't help every poor country that won't take the steps to help themselfs. Where did you get your information ? Some hate the west website ? Acording to what you are saying, you could very well put us on the 3rd world list !! We trade with the Americans for a reason and when they hurt we hurt ... get it ? | |
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Posted: 10/14/2009 10:16:40 AM | There are 2 bilion children in the world and 50 % of them live in severe poverty. Of that poor 1billion children - approximately 900 million of them do not eat every day.
People don't want to support charities because they say "I'm not going to support some "fatcat" so he can drive a Mercedes Benz." Or they entirely unrealistically expect the full 100 cents on the dollar to go to the children or people in need - so their response upon finding that it does not - is to give nothing! They don't care to understand that charities need logisitics, they need to advertise, they need transportation, and more. | |
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Posted: 10/14/2009 10:41:12 AM | Another guy who just googled a bunch of stats for his post....
Listen bro... I pay taxes and lots of it. Our country sends aid to whoever needs it the most. That would be our tax dollars. If we send aid to Africa there is a slim chance it will get there due to pirates. So then we have to send in troops to risk their lives to get it where it's suposed to go.
What world do you live in ?? Those tell marketers get paid to call you on the phone asking for donations... Their boss gets paid to handle the office. The founder of the cause gets a tidy share to go down there and see what is needed... Are you that gullible to belive that there are no "FatCats" and wheels being greesed to raise money ? People just jump up and do all this for free out of the goodness of their hearts !
I guess you belive that Jim and Tammy Baker did it all for Jesus right ?
What about here at home ? Our women need us too. The Canadian Breast Cancer Society is just one and Breast Cancer Survivors.... Why is anyone else more importatnt than us ?? Why do we try to solve problems in other countries when we have our own ? To say that we live in luxury is bull... There are people going to be sleeping on the street in Toronto this winter.... where will you be ?
I donate where it counts.. The food banks, Breast Cancer, and Sick kids right here at home and nobody else is getting my money.
I read somewhere that the best way to get rich is to start a religion or collect donations for a needy cause... | |
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| poverty
Posted: 10/14/2009 12:59:41 PM |
Posted By: driven2think on 10/14/2009 1  40 PM Message: Or they entirely unrealistically expect the full 100 cents on the dollar to go to the children or people in need - so their response upon finding that it does not - is to give nothing! They don't care to understand that charities need logisitics, they need to advertise, they need transportation, and more.
I don't think anyone begrudges the necessary legitimate expenses that go along with running charity and relief organizations. Some charities do incredible work and actually do spend the vast majority of collections directly on their respective causes.
Unfortunately, disillusionment arises when you learn that some professional "charity" fund-raising organizations spend as much or more on luxurious digs and lavish executive perks than they do on the charity cause that they claim to represent. If I donate, I want the largest bulk of my donations to go directly to the cause, not to the firm soliciting the funds on behalf of the cause. | |
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Posted: 10/14/2009 1:35:27 PM | Well Mr Evil you are a classic example of the type of guy who bytches when your chinese food delivery is late huh? Every world power has used this method to gain resources since the beginning of man.
Those local charities you believe need your money more are just another symptom of corporate cruelty. Everything from the tires and gas in your car to the vegetables you eat all year round are all aquired through none-ethical means.
The old world really got the ball rolling through colonialism when we could trinkets for land. Trust me, my sources are a little more widespread than google although if that could shut you up I could probably challenge you to produce one company that gets it resources (thqat you obviously take for granted) through ethical means.
Why else do you think Americans spend so much time putting puppet dictators where you need them around the world?
You are right about one thing though those that run this country are to an extent creating a slave class with third world conditions growing in places you would not expect to see. Try asking people who live in areas of detroit who can't get power or water?
And I guess all those illegal mexicans that came to this country did so on their own volition, nothing to do with putting almost two million of them out of work with subsidized corn?
Another thing this whole cancer thing is becuase we aren't eating well, our bodies are not evolving fast enough to deal with declining amounts of nutrition in most of our foods.
The hippies that were part of the love all peacenik 60's that are now running the show sold out a long time ago. You thinking process is exactly how they want it to be. | |
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Posted: 10/14/2009 2:14:53 PM | Remember though that the cost of living and standard of living is SO much different down there. The fact that they have a job is a blessing for them and their standard of living is probably triple what their unemployed neighbour has.
They value family and tradition so much more then most of us. They know what its like to have fun creating their own music and dancing or singing along. They know the value of people more then possessions unlike a lot of the rest of the world.
Honestly though what confuses me is that fact that there are all these charity organizations out there getting money together for these 3rd world countries and yet nothing changes. Hundreds of millions of dollars donated and the only people getting help are the 6 kids on the infomercial. | |
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Posted: 10/14/2009 3:05:10 PM | To say that our women have breast cancer because of the food they eat is not acceptable ! There is your answer to help at home. But you are not from here are you ? You want to blame the west for everything that is wrong in the world. I'm sure you can riddle off some more stupidities if it makes you feel better.
Someone very close to me lost her breast at the age of 25. And it wasn't what she ate ! I will never forget her pain and I for one will look after my own first before anyone else ! Do you think I give a sh!t about mexicans and corn ?.... Nuff said ! | |
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Posted: 10/14/2009 3:41:09 PM | So you have nothing to add other than a close tragedy? You think maybe there is some correlation between the increase of cancer and the advancement odf processed food.
Do yourself a favour and check out a website caleed foodinc. on there you will find links and titles of books ( yeah actual books ) that will give you somewhere to direct your anger at. The real cuprits responsible for her cancer. If you ask the right questions you may not like the answers you seek but it may open your eyes as to how the ones responsible have managed to pull the wool over your eyes.
And hey for your own edification just try and locate one resource company that isn't screwing over a third world country and I'll buy you a beer.
And to think a lot of it started with a little coffee and sugar. Then rubber then diamonds then spices and oil then slaves.
I won't even get started with south America but unfortunately they have figured out how to strip it all out themselves.
Take a look into the Great north passage, it's going to be circus up there.
But the biggie is going to be water, thanks to companies like coca cola we've manage to empty out all the underground water reserves just so you could buy the world a coke.
To the op, charity is not the answer, it's a bandaid to make us feel better. Things have just gotten started. If you wish to see some current horror and I hate to use it for fear of upsetting some other posters here for taking advantage of an awesome information tool but google food shortage riots.
Or try grain reserve levels, try to stay away from th biased sources and stick with the ones you know like rueters or american press or bbc.
You know Mr evil I don't blame the west for everything bad in the world but one has to admit for all our lifestyle to exist someone else has to pay.
Simple one for you is that over sixty % of the worlds population have never sat on a porcelain toilet. Can't be done anyway, there isn't enough porcelain to supply that many shitters. | |
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Posted: 10/14/2009 5:04:20 PM | Oh boy ! You are coming from way out there brother.
The Romans invented water ways and porcelain toilets thousands of years ago. Do these people need us to suply them with everything ???
You got to get out there and work ! They have been shown how to make water holes but they don't make any efforts to do it. They wait for world aid to do it for them.
Let me tell you something dude. They don't even know how to drill oil in the middle east... They were given all the equipment to do it and they still couldn't make it work to this day. We had to go in there and take the oil out of the ground for them. That's a fact!
How can anyone say that we don't do enough. because we have porcelain toilets we are the devil and let them die a slow death. Billions of our tax dollars poor into teaching these folks how to fend for themselfs and they just won't do it. Can't do it. Don't understand how to do it, Will not do it !
I'm sick of seeing these people on TV. We gave, We gave, We gave ok ? And got no thanks that I know of. Has anyone heard of any thanks to us ? Not me !
What is this crap that you are talking about ?
" Then rubber then diamonds then spices and oil then slaves"
What country are you in ? There were no slaves here !
"The first large wave of Africans to arrive in Canada were free Black Loyalists invited by the British government and given land, provisions, and freedom."
Rubber ?
Are you stupid ? Rubber is made from oil that kept saudi arabia out of poverty. Later it became GAS. We made trades with them for wheet, potatoes and many other goods.
Blood Dimonds are taken from africans who inslave their own to mine dimonds... Those dimonds are not welcome here. They are agaist the law and you can serve a life sentence for having one.
I'd like to see where these coutries would be without their coffee and sugar cane. I know for sure that we don't need them.
So tell me again what we ignorant Canadians should be doing more of ? | |
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Posted: 10/14/2009 5:39:47 PM | You what the most arrogant part of your viewpoint is that you somehow figure when we arrived on a boat all those years ago and felt the need to change the way they live. I imagine they may not progressed very quickly but once you have basically taken something from a people who as you so eloquently state they didn't know what it was for and traded them some corn because they were obviously all starving to death before we stripmined their environment , cut down 98% percent of their tress and helped turn a peaceful islnd that fed itself quite sufficiently to become slaves so somebody in France could get rich? They must have all volunteered to get on the boats to become slaves huh?
And when they finally got there autonomy we expected them to excel like we would? They had nothing of worth to work with. Very few ex colonies of the old world have ownership of their own resources. Pure arrogance my friend.
Fairly sure that the middle east couldn't give a crap what was under the sand.
You still haven't been able to give an example of an ethical fair trading resource company that didn't screw up an existing country. You see unlike you because of the growing awareness some companies have actually tried to build ethical trade.
And as far as the diamonds or slaves thing goes who would rather have been the guy who was given the gun to sell out his rival tribes or the poor schmuck in the chains? | |
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Posted: 10/14/2009 6:27:14 PM |
The western world is very much responsible for many of the third world or developing countries woes
You are so misinformed.
Governments of these third world countries are doing very well. Those governments incorporate martial law, substandard labor practices in order to entice corporate investments. Companies cannot enter other countries without that country government support.
Maybe you're on cloud nine or maybe you have your head up your ass, who knows? But, doesn't many third world countries invite and entertain corporate and government dignitaries for potential commerce, on a daily basis?
It's so easy to blame corporations.... even though, as a consumer, you still buy products made in sweat shops. As one Nike official stated (re: sweat shops), "We're not breaking any of their government laws." | |
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Posted: 10/14/2009 6:46:25 PM |
It's so easy to blame corporations.... even though, as a consumer, you still buy products made in sweat shops.
So, WE (the western world) are THEIR (the sweat shops) market. It is an equation, as I am sure you know, My I, all based on supply and demand and end product. If we (the western world) stop buying the sweat shop products, then we can change things ... so, how are WE not part of the problem? I am not saying we are the entire problem... but we are definitely part of it. | |
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Posted: 10/14/2009 6:57:38 PM | If it's made in China then is probably made in a sweat shop. How you going to know ? They don't advertise that stuff on TV ya know. Wake up to the world and get out of your balloon. Do you have to ask that question ?? If you do then you are too thick to know. That's an all round stupid question.
Clickon-baby you are such a moaning cry baby that I have no need to reply to you anymore.... Get on your bike buddy and sing the blues, hand out flyers or whatever you want to do...
If you don't like this country then I will buy you a pass home !!! | |
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Posted: 10/15/2009 4:42:21 AM | Well as someone who studied business MyI and knowing your a pro-union guy from windsor I guess it isn't too hard to fathom that a smart businessman would most definetely take his factory to a third world country who's officials can be easily bribed to allow him to just ship it back to us at the same retail price.
The gdp for some os these countries may be in the billions based on their resource exports but the average citizens annual wage is paultry at best and little to no money is spent on infrastructure in the least. Even then it would most likely be done by a western corp in instead of one of their own.
You obviously can see how the big three are trying to dismantle the dinosaurish auto sector in search of more profits. We used to have a very sweatshop mentality here in NA and you would say that unions and the fact that we stood up for ourselves helped eliviate that situation. A little different when you have a population that is coerced to play ball with a gun to their head.
We are light years ahead of many of these countries.
Yes I would say the governments are doing quite well my I but you would be hard pressed to say the average citizen is fairing as well, that money is not trickling down the line.
The main reason you will not see much aid going to places like Haiti is that there really is no profit in it to do so. | |
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Posted: 10/15/2009 2:09:34 PM |
MyI and knowing your a pro-union guy from windsor
^^^ Totally irrelevant and very incorrect. It's not a union issue and/or a union based perspective; nor am I pro union.
The gdp for some os these countries may be in the billions based on their resource exports but the average citizens annual wage is paultry at best and little to no money is spent on infrastructure in the least.
^^^ Thus supporting my claim that governments create poverty and sub standard living conditions.... not corporations. Corporations simply pay into the system created by each country.
We used to have a very sweatshop mentality here in NA and you would say that unions and the fact that we stood up for ourselves helped eliviate that situation
In many cases, if not most cases, the Canadian government supported the changes because of the burden it imposed on the government funded health care. It's cheaper to mitigate health care costs through higher standards of living and better conditions in the workplace than it is to provide healthcare to the sick, ailing and infirmed. | |
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Posted: 10/15/2009 2:59:40 PM | ^^^ Thus supporting my claim that governments create poverty and sub standard living conditions.... not corporations. Corporations simply pay into the system created by each country.
No shyte sherlock, duh. And I imagine they feel no guilt for perpetuating the situation as long as the product gets built and nobody here gives a crap and are fine with oppressing those countries.
See that is the problem everyone seems to forget that no matter what country in South America or Africa you look at it was once a colony of Europe nations.
They did nothing but try to either convert their religion, language or way of life. Not to mention introducing diseases and new animals that wreaked havoc in their environment.
You could say that we were just spreading good around the world. These days they leave behind environmental disasters because as you say its not the corporations fault that they have no laws so who's to care eh?
You obviously have no problem with this knowledge.
I guess you have no problems with our corporations causing untold damage to alberta as long as it creates jobs and keeps the gas cheap?
As far as us here in NA, we were not uneducated natives that were easily amazed by baubles although they have managed to brainwash enough of us to keep the engine running.
And you have the gall to say I have my head up my ass. | |
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Posted: 10/15/2009 3:08:06 PM | All insults aside... I'm sure many of those living in poverty in some areas never have to pay for rent or even property taxes and do their own farming... and in some cases... haven't been educated enough to know to live luxuriously being without TV or know of such broadcasts if community accessible, so they could be very happy to survive on $2 a day, but this is besides the point.
Evidently, greed is the main reason why the majority of the world population lives in poverty... added that most people just don't care "enough" to really bother... or don't trust how their money would be funded.
As of course, just to print more money will most likely increase the birth rate, which in a rather short matter of time can result to overcrowding... and unlike the universe, this here planet earth simply doesn't span anywhere near the distance unfortunately... then again... if all forms of life, including ourselves, were 10,000 times smaller, we wouldn't have to worry about that for a little over... 10,000 years... plus we could fall from any height and not get hurt. The only way to completely abolish poverty would mean making it somehow altogether impossible to become parents until licensed... perhaps a maximum of 4 children depending on the economy or court agreements... so we could have an equal shot of earning at least a decent lifestyle. Also imagine if every student were paid the incentives to get better grades... that instead of welfare... people would always be provided work... that every position hiring needs to be openly posted at a job bank... that our school grades is all we require to get hired without spending away too much of our time and resources. We seem to have a great healthcare plan, but I just recently heard it's been abused by foreign affairs... in otherwords... we have lots of people somehow "pretending" to be residents... maybe paying a friend to share their Canadian address.
From what I saw on TV, we now have the technology to offer beautiful cost efficient townhouses that could take 5 "ordinary" people to build in a day. Through the aide of the internet... we should anonymously vote every 4 months on what should be done to improve our society and able to get a daily monetary "tracking"... and if whomever we voted for falls short of their promise will get removed immediately or even imprisoned as necessary because what's the sense of casting our ballots when when our politicians don't keep up to their agenda as on schedule?
Not to forget... a way to prevent recessions by making everybody spend a certain percentage of their earnings to keep each business above the profit margin as the data would go directly through out credit cards... or debit cards to whichever sector of government -- on further note, I personally prefer the plastic monetary system as opposed to handling the unsanitary exchange of paper and coins... all person to person transactions should soon be sent electronically "passing" our cards by phone and only on that of our own never need to enter a "lengthy" personalized safe code. Speaking of phones... I think it's about time where we can use our cellulars to open our car doors each encryption coded to simultaneously change the signal to defend against any eavesdroping devices. Back on topic... we as a humanity should work together as a majority and weigh out our options and stop the procrastinating. Oh wait... I think that's sort of what got JFK assassinated... so nevermind.
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| poverty
Posted: 10/15/2009 3:58:57 PM |
No shyte sherlock, duh. And I imagine they feel no guilt for perpetuating the situation as long as the product gets built and nobody here gives a crap and are fine with oppressing those countries
First off, sherlock, nobody is perpetuating a thing. If a government does not set certain standards in their own country, then how are corporations perpetuating things? They've not worsened anything because the standards are set low and corporations stay within those standards, for the most part.... that's not perpetuating a thing.
nobody here gives a crap and are fine with oppressing those countries
Oppressing?
You have that all wrong! If a country never had higher standards, how can they become oppressed by corporations functioning within the parameters set within that country?
These days they leave behind environmental disasters because as you say its not the corporations fault that they have no laws so who's to care eh?
Maybe you should join greenpeace. They have a lot of answers but no solutions or financial contributions to resolve their complaints (talk about greed and exploitation)
I guess you have no problems with our corporations causing untold damage to alberta as long as it creates jobs and keeps the gas cheap?
Maybe I should start critiquing your lifestyle and remind you of the untold oppressing of other countries you support through your daily purchases and lifestyle choices.
Just like greenpeace, you spew a lot of crap but continue to contribute to the blight and opression around the world (read your clothing labels, household goods labels - it's your choice to support sweat shops and grunt factories). Hence the reason I believe your head is up your ass... and your "Made in Taiwan" briefs are at your ankles.
As far as us here in NA, we were not uneducated natives........ although they have managed to brainwash enough of us
^^^ enough said.
And you have the gall to say I have my head up my ass
I was being tactful. | |
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Posted: 10/15/2009 5:33:57 PM | You know I practice what I preach probably alot more than you could know, But at least I can accept a little responsibility for the plight of those countries who our forefathers pillaged so we could live this lala lifestyle.
You are like the german citizens who knew of the atrocities but pretended not to notice or feel any responsibility. Bully for you.
I shop local as much as I can, farmers markets, local meat suppliers but if the majority choose to be like you it will be a slow process for change and hey who am I to give a rat's asz about other human beings, how foolish of me. As long as you get yours eh?
The mere fact that at the beginning of the recovery for the bank mortgage fiasco citizens were encouraged to shop, keep those freiters moving.
Funny as I writing this the Tim Hortons company is showing their latest comercial extoling their participation in ethical business partnerships with south american growers. Seems like maybe they are looking to bypass the corrupt system.
If a corporation actually thought os those people as something more than a means to an end they could circumvent the corruption, they just choose the easy route.
If our corporations were doing such a bang up job they wouldn't need mercenary security to do business around the world.
Oh one other thing , perhaps my lifestyle isn't the most interesting of the bunch considering you have me pictured with trousers down but hey whatever floats your boat. | |
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