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Joined: 5/18/2008
Msg: 1
Not The MommaPage 1 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
I'm a hands on, live-in aunt. My sister and I are very close and she is raising three boys more or less alone. Basically my nephews don't have a father figure, but they have two moms.

Three boys are exhausting. Recently the youngest (5) has started spitting on his brothers. Yes! Spitting like a camel.
I told him that people don't spit, only animals do.
Right now, I've got him in time out and he trying to bargain his way out of it.

I feel like I should stick to the original 30 minutes, because I want him to understand that I will follow through with discipline. He says he is ready to behave and that being alone in his room is frightening. He claims spiders will bite him, lol.

Is he playing me, lol?

I'd consult his mother, but she is unavailable for the next few hours.

Is thirty minutes too long for a 5 year old?
 carterscutie85
Joined: 5/31/2007
Msg: 2
Not The Momma
Posted: 10/15/2009 1:43:11 PM
Generally the rule of thumb for time outs is 1 minute per year of age. So if he's 5, he gets 5 minutes, and so on. How old is he?
 CaRo78
Joined: 2/22/2009
Msg: 3
Not The Momma
Posted: 10/15/2009 1:47:34 PM
he is 5, read back!!!!
 TAKEN fab-mom
Joined: 6/19/2007
Msg: 4
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Not The Momma
Posted: 10/15/2009 1:52:32 PM
30 minutes is too long IMO. I go with the 1 minute for each year rule also.
 _Icon_
Joined: 5/18/2008
Msg: 5
Not The Momma
Posted: 10/15/2009 1:57:07 PM
Thanks moms. The kid has been sprung from jail without any spider damage. (lol)

We have had a long discussion about spitting and respect. He knows exactly what I am talking about, he just doesn't care.

This kid is a sly one, he's great at talking his way out of trouble. So cute, hard to resist him. He usually gets away with murder, but I still don't want to be too harsh.
 TAKEN fab-mom
Joined: 6/19/2007
Msg: 6
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Not The Momma
Posted: 10/15/2009 2:05:31 PM
Oh they are all little sneaky boogers. With my daughter (2 1/2) it is 'BOOBOO!!" or "I have to potty" to get out of time out. Lol. The booboo I can just ignore but do we really want to chance questioning whether or not she has to pee?!? Lol. No thank you! She knows this will get her up once but she always goes back so I have no clue why she keeps doing it. lol
 wonderingsole
Joined: 8/26/2009
Msg: 7
Not The Momma
Posted: 10/15/2009 2:39:43 PM


This thread just made my day
 _Icon_
Joined: 5/18/2008
Msg: 8
Not The Momma
Posted: 10/15/2009 2:40:28 PM
I don't want him to grow up and write his memoirs about the evil aunt who locked him in a room full of spiders. That's probably how he will remember it.

(There are no spiders in his room, I checked just to be sure.)
 Just_2_b_me
Joined: 6/22/2006
Msg: 9
Not The Momma
Posted: 10/15/2009 2:43:26 PM
Suckers every one of you ....

Should have stuck to the 30 minutes, he scamed you and he knows it ....
 carterscutie85
Joined: 5/31/2007
Msg: 10
Not The Momma
Posted: 10/15/2009 2:52:10 PM
5 minutes can feel like an eternity for a 5 year old. I say stick to the 1 minute per year rule. Don't buy his excuses, unless he uses the potty excuse. Like another person said, u really don't want to risk that, lol.
 ForumPhantom
Joined: 10/31/2008
Msg: 11
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Not The Momma
Posted: 10/15/2009 3:01:58 PM
I don't have kids, love other people's kids...just wanted to say this thread made me smile! Thanks for starting it iconoclast!
 whitetigeress
Joined: 7/18/2009
Msg: 12
Not The Momma
Posted: 10/15/2009 3:47:16 PM
Should have stuck to the 30 minutes, he scammed you and he knows it ....

^^
yup
AND add another minute each time he talks back in any way, shape or form

watch the eyes get all wide as he realizes you mean business
 hungry_joe
Joined: 6/24/2006
Msg: 13
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Not The Momma
Posted: 10/15/2009 3:55:20 PM
If time out doesn't work put him in the push up position for a few minutes. Or the invisble chair, squat with arms out streched in front of him like on an arm rest. Physical punishment without hitting. I've found this to become effecitve with my 4 year old son, when Time out fails. I dislike hitting, therefore I had to become creative. Just a thought.

I do believe that his fear is real. For him, the spiders will get him. My little boy has the same fear.
 _Icon_
Joined: 5/18/2008
Msg: 14
Not The Momma
Posted: 10/15/2009 3:59:25 PM
I do believe that his fear is real. For him, the spiders will get him. My little boy has the same fear.


Yeah, me too. Bad dreams. That's why I was concerned enough to ask. Halloween and all.

Once I worked with a Vietnamese grandfather and I asked him about his Halloween plans.

He said "In my country we dont like to scare the children and we dont make them beg for candy." I had to think about that for a while. Still thinking about it years later. Hm.
 singlesuperdad
Joined: 8/26/2009
Msg: 15
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Not The Momma
Posted: 10/15/2009 4:16:18 PM
I give my 6 year old, 6 min. but it doesn't start till she has stopped crying and can concentrate on what she did wrong. when she is done she has to tell me what she did wrong and appoligise (ooh thats not the right spelling)
 KarmicEvolution
Joined: 11/22/2008
Msg: 16
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Not The Momma
Posted: 10/15/2009 4:43:23 PM
Im with the 1 minute per year people, but if they move or complain add another minute every time. If you say 30 minutes though you should stick to it.

My girl friend has time out down to a fine art. Her 2 year old sits on the floor where ever he is and doesnt move until he is ready to apologize for what ever reason he was in time out. Im going to have her train my daughter. lol

As for the spider thing... just move the time out location. Sit him in a corner of the kitchen facing the wall where you can monitor "spider movement". Then you will know if its a true fear or a cop out by the reaction.
 short_momma
Joined: 9/23/2007
Msg: 17
Not The Momma
Posted: 10/15/2009 4:51:29 PM
i use to start with 10 minutes and then increase by 5 if they kept it up once let out. Rarely did it go past 30 no matter what age.
 Browngreeneyes
Joined: 12/21/2008
Msg: 18
Not The Momma
Posted: 10/15/2009 5:28:18 PM
Was he in a cave to be scared of spiders biting him? Or in a bedroom? Throw him a can of fly spray!

These are all little tricks they use to get out of it. Thirty minutes might be too long but if you threatened him with it - you need to carry it out to teach him that you are not going to sway to his wants.
 hungry_joe
Joined: 6/24/2006
Msg: 19
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Not The Momma
Posted: 10/15/2009 6:09:17 PM
Halloween is a good time to work on those fears where it is safe. I think it is just a phase that he'll grow out of. Just like the Growlly Gus, for you Wubzie fans you know what I'm talking about. My time-outs are facing the corner anyhow, that way there are no distractions of toys or whatever. My other suggestion is when I've tried time out and it failed. I know we've all had those days too guys. lol
 lorelei540
Joined: 8/14/2008
Msg: 20
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Not The Momma
Posted: 10/15/2009 7:02:19 PM
I didn't use a specific time, and I definitely didn't use their bedroom as a place of punishment. When my kids were small I just had them sit on the steps until they chilled out. Then I would sit down & talk with them about what happened and how they could do whatever it was differently the next time.

Now that they are teenagers I look back on those days and wish it could be so simple!
 itsallinthesoul
Joined: 6/26/2009
Msg: 21
Not The Momma
Posted: 10/15/2009 9:16:05 PM
~wondering if the OP ever found out why he was spitting on his brothers and thought it was ok in the first place and whether or not the OP explained to him how to deal with his anger towards his brothers more effectively or at minimum in a more acceptable manner ~
 ConsciousSoul
Joined: 7/9/2008
Msg: 22
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Not The Momma
Posted: 10/16/2009 1:46:28 AM
Ouch.

Maybe for some readers, this thread is funny. I have a hard time understanding how it can be any fun to go into lengthy details about how effectively you can hurt a kid. Then, it seems the joy is reaching new heights when posters proceed to laugh at the children' attempt at resisting or getting away from being hurt by these "techniques". I still fail to see how this can be "funny" in any way, shape or form.

Yes, I realize I might be coming out strongly on this matter, but I am dead serious when I say that what I read in this thread is quite devastating. I am using the word "hurt" here on purpose. For children, the unconditional love and care from their parents is like oxygen. When you are imposing a time-out on a child, you are withdrawing something from them that is critical, something that is as vital to them as oxygen or water : you are withdrawing attention and love.

Don't be fooled : time-outs are effective because they are deadly serious for kids, they hurt like hell, sometimes even more than any other kind of punishment. When used as a punishment (rather than as a temporary measure to calm down when angry) time-outs have the following effects on kids :

- They teach a kid that their parent's love is not unconditional,
- They erode a child's self confidence
- They feel wrong and unfair (regardless of why they were imposed)
- They cause children to brood over the unfairness and reflect on revenge or on how helpless they feel, rather than reflect on their behavior
- They put back the child in control of his own teaching - something he cannot do - where as it should have been a role assumed by the parent,
- They teach a kid to hide their behavior in order not to be caught
- They generate feelings of humiliation, shame, fear and self-depreciation

And I am only barely scratching the surface of what child counselors and professionals have found out in the past 40 years of child psychology and research. This is serious matter, and I am not even talking about the added layer of physical punishment.
And you guys think this is FUNNY???? Really?

Here are some quotes and comments from this thread :

I told him that people don't spit, only animals do.

If the comparison was meant as a way to put down, to insult, to degrade, then it is succeeding. But if it is meant to teach - how is it teaching anything?
How does that helps a child handle his anger and strong feelings toward his siblings? Did you actually learned why he did that? Did you teach him what to do instead?


He says he is ready to behave and that being alone in his room is frightening. He claims spiders will bite him, lol. Is he playing me, lol?

Am I the only one here who finds this touching and sad, rather than funny? The poster even wrote "lol" twice, as if this is laughing matter. If he is not frightened, and has seen no spider (nor imagined any), then I would think it is quite an important matter to understand why such a young kid would feel the need to lie to his parents, and I would take this quite seriously and wonder what I have done wrong in my parenting. And if he is sincere.. hell! Doesn't he deserves to be heard?


We have had a long discussion about spitting and respect. He knows exactly what I am talking about, he just doesn't care.

Why would he care? He is learning through modeling, and the parent is modeling to him how whoever has the power decides, and how he own feelings and emotions, fears and inner motives do NOT count. In short, he is NOT being respected as a human being. How can he then learn what respect is? of COURSE he doesn't care. You cannot get him to care until he feels someone cares for him equally.


Oh they are all little sneaky boogers. With my daughter (2 1/2) it is 'BOOBOO!!" or "I have to potty" to get out of time out.

Rather than laughing at it, it would concern me that my 2 and a half years old is already learning to lie to get out of a hurtful punishment. If you actually look at it from their point of view, it's not funny at all. It's quite heart-wrenching, at least for me. How can a 2 and half years old learn anything constructive at all when she is worried about her parent's love for her - as she is denied the attention she naturally craves for?


Suckers every one of you .... Should have stuck to the 30 minutes, he scamed you and he knows it

He does? really? How do you know that? Are you aware that before 4-5 years old, a kid doesn't even HAVE the cognitive capacity to deceive? He can't even conceive what "scamming" someone means. This is how you interpret it through your adult eyes, not how he sees it.


AND add another minute each time he talks back in any way, shape or form watch the eyes get all wide as he realizes you mean business

And now we are starting to have advices popping out about how to make the hurting more effective. What if I tell you his eyes are getting all wide as he realizes you don't care about him or his feelings? That he is feelings humiliated, cornered, put down?


I give my 6 year old, 6 min. but it doesn't start till she has stopped crying and can concentrate on what she did wrong.

She would concentrate a lot better on what she did wrong without the threat of punishment hanging over her, and with a caring adult gently and firmly showing her how the world works and what to do instead


My girl friend has time out down to a fine art. Her 2 year old sits on the floor where ever he is and doesnt move until he is ready to apologize for what ever reason he was in time out.

Punishment presented as an art. It makes me shiver. Sounds to me just like torture logic.

And now, we can get with the final touch: adding physical punishment to the already dreadful love withdrawal :


My time-outs are facing the corner anyhow, that way there are no distractions of toys or whatever. If time out doesn't work put him in the push up position for a few minutes. Or the invisble chair, squat with arms out streched in front of him like on an arm rest. Physical punishment without hitting. I've found this to become effecitve with my 4 year old son, when Time out fails.


FOUR years old and already forced to SUFFER both love withdrawal and physical pain.
** FOUR ** years old! And you think this is laughing matter?
Wow. Just wow.
 hungry_joe
Joined: 6/24/2006
Msg: 23
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Not The Momma
Posted: 10/16/2009 3:04:44 AM
As to my quote. That was directly refering to when other methods had failed. Would you perfer what my dad did to me and beat him with a belt? And this is not for prolonged periods of time maybe a minute or two. Time out fails. parenting is an Art not a science. I don't have to use it very often. And at four many childern get spanked etc. I think is because you don't have a kid of your own, and your in theories that you don't understand that the theories don't always work in practice. BTW Time out works most of the time.
 TAKEN fab-mom
Joined: 6/19/2007
Msg: 24
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Not The Momma
Posted: 10/16/2009 6:33:27 AM
concious...as I usually agree with your posts I'm going to have to tell you to grow a pair of nuts and realize that YOU and other parents like YOU are the reason that our children are growing up running the households and turning into little heathens that no one but other crack head, burdens on society want to be involved with.

YES!! A child will try to get out of punishments. they aren't stupid! How many grown adults in prison say they aren't guilty?!?

I truly feel sorry for any of your children. How are they going to react when they get suspended or even expelled from school for misbehavior. They will be in SHOCK that there is a consequence to their actions other than a "talking to" And God forbid they get fired from a job!! I can see them talking to the unemployment office now. "Well..I don't know why they fired me...I don't know why people are so uncivilized. They could have just talked to me"

I can't recall if you actually have children or not (I believe you do) but you are getting played and the older they get the less "talking" is going to do for you. You can talk yourself blue in the face as they tell you to f*ck off and walk out the door. Why would they listen at that point? They know you aren't going to do anything else.

And please..if you have OTHER means as to which correct a childs behavior other than JUST talking let us in on it besides just coming on here and telling us all what we are doing wrong.
 TAKEN fab-mom
Joined: 6/19/2007
Msg: 25
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Not The Momma
Posted: 10/16/2009 6:39:15 AM
Hahahahah! Nevermind. You are one of those childless people who always know what is best. Were you beat as a child? locked in the closet? I do have friends that are sooo against physical or really any punishment because of abuse as a child and guess what?! Their kids are little sh!ts that get sent home from school on a regular basis and I am sure will be brought home by the police and bailed out on numerous occasions as they age.

How about you spawn some offspring and then get back to us on how your theories work mm kay?

"Bachelors wives and spinster children are always perfect"

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