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| How many of you speak Irish Gaelic?
Posted: 10/17/2009 11:24:41 AM | | Just wondering. I'm an American with a lot of Irish ancestry and would like to learn some Irish Gaelic. Plus, learn more about modern Irish life. I know it can't be all pubs and Guinness!!! Culture. What kinds of music are popular? Is traditional Irish music still popular? What kind of cinematography does Ireland have? Is it mostly in English or Gaeilge? | |
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| How many of you speak Irish Gaelic?
Posted: 10/18/2009 8:58:51 AM | Firstly there is no such thing as Irish Gaelic. The name of the language in English is Irish. The romantic language Nazis who took over the state whe the British left combined with Roman Catholic religious zealots were the two main reasons why Ireland was so poor for so long. The stifling atmosphere and years of economic depression was what led so many to emigrate. Of coures we'll only ever hear of the ones who "left Oireland on the famine ships". The famine ships must have been bigger than the QE2.
The combination of the Irish language and Catholicism are still damaging the education to this day. Children are forced to waste valuable school time on a dead language that no one needs and a foreign religion with a long history of acting against the interests of Ireland. Millions of euro of taxpayers money are wasted every year funding both. The language has also been used in a kind of racist sectarian way to keep foreign teachers out of the Roman Catholic run school system.
There is no such thing as Irish culture per se. Most of the programmes on TV are American and American culture is the most dominant. McDonalds, Burgerking, KFC, Coca Cola, Pepsi and all the big American corporate are all over the place.
Irish culture is an American hybrid. The vast majority of cinema films are American with a few notable exceptions from Britian.
Most of the kids are into music that came for black American ghettos. Traditional Irish music survives on a kind of trad circuit the same way Jazz music survives in the US. It will never go away but it waxes and wanes and it’s kept more alive by people who think they're Irish rather than the natives themselves.
The country is run by the thickest Catholic Gombeen men on planet Earth. Our politicians, in a country of 4 million people, pay themselves more than the politicians in your country of 400 million. The Irish people put up with this like peasants on a landed estate. A very common attitude to the thivery of our politicial masters is "sure if you got the job wouldn’t you be robbin' a few bob too".
If it was not for the EU we wouldn't have a decent road in the country. Even with the EU funds they managed to make a complete balls of the roadbuilding schemes and over spent by billions.
For decades the Catholic Church was raping, enslaving, torturing and using children as slave labour and they still run 95% of the schools. When this finally came to light the good Catholics in the government conspired with their Roman masters to hand the taxpayers the bill and did as much as they could to abuse the victims all over again. It's called the Indemnity Deal. Look it up if you want to learn about Irish culture.
The Irish people themselves are happy go lucky friendly zombies who allow all this.
Reality is not popular and for good reason. Collectively the Irish find succour in the "ah sure it could be worse but sure aren’t we a great people" kind of mental cop out.
At the moment our glorious politicians are about to stick the taxpayer of future generations with the bill for their incompetent handling of the building boom with a scheme called NAMA. A few people started the Irish Peoples Union to protest. 500 turned up for the first march and almost nobody for the second. | |
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| How many of you speak Irish Gaelic?
Posted: 10/18/2009 11:10:05 AM | Thanks for your input, DaVinciBro. I know that Ireland had its own Celtic Christianity before the Roman Catholic Church took over. And before that, the Druids were the priests and professionals.
I didn't know about the Nazis, so I learned something new. Even though the Roman Empire left Ireland alone, the Vikings and the British sure didn't.
I would sure hate to see languages such as Gaeilge die out because the natives didn't think it was a "useful" language in the world's marketplace. Yeah, I've seen Americanization in a lot of places. I didn't see it so much in Brazil in 2001, but I sure saw a lot of it in Panama in 2003. Then again, America has been involved in Panama from the days of becoming a separate nation from Colombia to building the Panama Canal to ousting Manuel Noriega from power.
I do have Irish, German, and Spanish ancestry. However, culturally I was raised American, not Irish, German, or Spanish.
I'm not sure if it was Marx who said it, but someone said, "Religion is the opiate of the people." This is true. Matthew Fox wrote that peoples who lose their native cosmology (such as being converted to Christianity from their native ways) usually resort to alcoholism. That's true for the Irish just as it's true for Native Americans and other peoples.
The Celts used to be all over Europe. What most likely contributed to their downfall was that both Greeks and Romans feared them, and with good reason. Nowadays, I think it'll be diasporic people with Celtic ancestry who will keep Celtic heritage and languages alive. | |
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| How many of you speak Irish Gaelic?
Posted: 10/18/2009 2:16:47 PM | Hello hair metal
You have to be careful with the whole Celtic thing. The Romans kind of lumped lots of different cultures together and called them Celtic just as they lumped all religions together and called them pagan. A lot of the Irish Celtic thing is a Victorian reinvention of the imagined past. The Roman military wing never invaded Ireland but it's much more dangerous psychological offshoot, the Roman Church, did.
Every time the religion went native Rome used it’s machinations to bring it back under central control. When Henry II landed in 1171 he was licensed to do so by the Pope by way of reference to a Papal Bull called Laudabiliter. The bargain was that in return for recognising Henry and his heirs as the rightful Kings of Ireland a tax on one penny per household was collected and paid to Rome. Henry and his French speaking hiberno Norman knights (this is what is supposed to be the English invasion of Ireland) whipped the Irish into shape by the sword on the Popes behalf. This is the foreign religion that one dumb ill informed Irish native after another will tell you is “part of what we are”.
You'll hear a lot of BS about the glorious 1916 rising and how the British occupation came to an end. What you won't hear is that when the British marched out the Roman Catholic Church, which had worked in partnership with the British, took over and completed their occupation which still goes on today.
They control 95% of the schools and hospitals even though they don’t actually pay for them. They are allowed to operate a religious black economy at the same time.
Just recently one of our overpaid government ministers spent an inordinate amount of time bringing out a blasphemy bill which is due to be signed into law later this month. A blasphemy law in the 21st century! It's back to the dark ages.
Then they spent more time bringing out a law to protect the Catholic Church monopoly on Mass cards. This is in a country where our overpaid hogs on top only sit for 100 days a year. They don't get to most of the problems that need to be addressed but they spend the little time they have protecting a State within the State.
The Vikings are part of another great feel good distortion in Irish historical memory. I'm sure you've heard how the High King of Ireland Brian Boru drove the Danes into the sea once and for all in 1014. It's crap. There was a Viking king of Dublin long after the battle of Clontarf. There were Vikings fighting on both sides.
In Ireland the Catholic religion is not so much the opium of the people: it's more like the formaldehyde the Irish collective mind was soaked in a long time ago.
As regards the Irish language you have to keep in mind that for decades now the Irish language Nazis have made it compulsory right through school. Yet generations of Irish people having spent a minimum of ten years or as much as 14 years learning it, drop it like a hot rock as soon as they can. Many of the same people after leaving school will become proficient in a European language and only spend a year or two on it. You can visit any town or city in Ireland and the odds of hearing a dozen people speaking Irish in the street or in daily situations is about a thousand to one or better. That's an awful lot of wasted school time that could have been spent learning something useful like German, French, Spanish or Italian. All of those languages can be heard daily on the streets of Dublin city. | |
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| How many of you speak Irish Gaelic?
Posted: 10/19/2009 1:41:37 AM | Yeah, the word "Celtic" is a huge umbrella term. Then again, Julius Caesar in his military memoirs "De Bello Gallico" said that Gauls worshipped Mercury or Dis Pater. It was typical of interpretatio Romana to impose their gods' names onto native gods, just like they did with the Greeks.
"Pagan" is a huge umbrella term too. The country folk in Italy were the last ones to accept Christianity, so "pagan" went from a derogatory term for a country dweller (hayseed, hick, country bumpkin, etc.) to a derogatory term for those who wouldn't accept the new foreign religion.
I've studied German, French, Spanish, and Italian, both on my own and in school. I've studied Russian for 2 years too. About Irish, I think there are pockets of communities on Ireland's west coast which speak different dialects of Irish. Then again, people living in rural communities are usually the last ones to accept change, just like they did when Catholicism was made the official religion of Rome. Of course, Emperor Julian tried to make Rome pagan again, but by then the Catholic Church had already consolidated its power.
Then again, Catholicism became the official religion of the Roman Empire in the 4th century CE. Conversion didn't happen overnight without bloodshed. In fact it took centuries and getting kings and other rulers to convert. They say Ireland was the only Western European nation to convert without bloodshed, but in some ways I doubt it. Of course, St. Patrick was a Welshman who had been a slave in Ireland and thus knew the language and culture, so he reworked his brand of Christianity so it would be accepted by the "pagan" Irish. Then again, he was just following St. Paul's example of when he introduced his brand of Christianity to Mediterranean Europe. I think if Paul had left in the kosher laws, the circumcision requirement for men, and Jewish holidays, then I think he would have had a much harder time gaining converts. Having grown up with Greek culture and knowing it very well, he decided to modify Christianity so it would be acceptable to Greeks and also Romans.
Nowadays Christians claim Christianity is not a religion but rather a relationship with Jesus Christ, but Christianity has all the trappings of a religion to me. They tend to be ignorant of the fact that their ancestors had to accept Christianity or pay the ultimate price. Even nowadays, Christian missionaries go to poor countries. When you're poor and have no hope in this life, then the possibility of going to "heaven" looks very appealing, and so they're willing to give up their will and work like slaves so they can have a good afterlife. Here in the South, Christianity is very influential. I think because of that there are very few unions here. And people put up with low pay and less-than-ideal working conditions because they believe they'll get a "reward" in the end. By the same token, they usually vote for Republican presidential candidates because they think Republicans are on their side when it comes to issues like abortion and gay marriage. Then again, the Democrats aren't really any better. Both of them work for big business, not for the people who voted them in - in the first place. Then again, there is no nation on Earth where they don't have corrupt, greedy politicians. | |
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| How many of you speak Irish Gaelic?
Posted: 10/20/2009 6:35:33 AM | HairMetal:
I just came back from Westminster in London. I went to see a debate where the motion was "The Catholic Church is a force for good in the world". On one side you had a Catholic Bishop and a British MP. On the other side, against the motion, were Christopher Hitchens and Stephen Fry. Hitch and Fry wiped the floor with the other pair. Before the debate they polled the audience coming in. They were pretty evenly split with a slight majority against the motion. By the time it was over of the 2100 people in the hall 1900 were against the motion. Catholicims, like all Christianity is based on the idea that voluntary suffering is praisworthy and that every new born baby is guilty of some illogical crime. It's bullshit. | |
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| How many of you speak Irish Gaelic?
Posted: 10/20/2009 1:50:36 PM |
I'm an American with a lot of Irish ancestry and would like to learn some Irish Gaelic. Plus, learn more about modern Irish life. I know it can't be all pubs and Guinness!!! Culture. What kinds of music are popular? Is traditional Irish music still popular? What kind of cinematography does Ireland have? Is it mostly in English or Gaeilge?
Well, the previous poster is giving you his own opinion, which he's entitled to, but I don't agree. I'm not and have never been RC and have found over my lifetime that the influence of the RC Church has diminished a lot. eg contraception & divorce are both now legal here. Legalised in my lifetime. Sure there are a few religious nutters here (Knock last week being an example) but they are unfortunately everywhere. In fact less people,proportionally, believe in god here than in the USA. Social life does take place largely in pubs and clubs, depending on your age and social class. Otherwise, cinemas will show mostly Hollywood films, but we do get to see European films too. We had some good Irish films too in recent years, but remember we are a small country of 4 million so we don't have a big film industry. Mostly English is spoken and everyone who speaks Irish is bilingual. There has been a revival of the Irish language in the last 20 years, with more Irish-medium schools opening up. There is also an Irish language TV station, even if they do show shows in English with Irish subtitles! Guinness is great stuff and I miss it when I'm abroad. Irish music is popular in certain circles, but most people listen to pop/rock. I suppose you've heard of U2? | |
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| How many of you speak Irish Gaelic?
Posted: 10/20/2009 2:09:49 PM | Firstly, there is such a thing as Irish Gaelic, the term Gaelic refers to any of the closely related languages of the Celts in Ireland, Scotland, or (formerly) the Isle of Man ( http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Gaelic )
But an Irish person who knows even the smallest, most basic elements of their native language would call Irish Gaelic Gaelige to be correct or possibly adhere to the English language translation which is Irish.
Secondly, there are none and never have been any "romantic language Nazis who took over the state when the British left" - the closest thing we had to Nazis in this country were the British with their long history of genocidal tendencies in this country against the Native Irish.
Irish history is complex but one of the worst things to come of the British occupation is the attitude of some Irish people that to speak their own language is somehow bad, that our language is the language of peasants and not a language full of beautiful sounds and words with real meaning relating to thousands of years of Irish experience, we would be a soulless country if the effort to keep our language alive didn't succeed.
Over half a million people out of 4 million or more living in Ireland speak Gaelige daily in areas known as Gaeltacht areas. There are many more who are capable of speaking it fluently but don't use it everyday and there are just as many who's Irish/Gaelige isn't fluent but they have a good understanding of it.
I've studied German, French, Spanish, and Italian, both on my own and in school. I've studied Russian for 2 years too.
I think if you enjoy learning languages and have a good ear for them that it would be very interesting for you to learn Gaelige.
Very frustratingly for me I've never had much of an ability to learn languages, I've tried to learn Irish, French and German but gave up. Maybe as a much older person now, I might manage a better grasp of those languages because I'd be interested in learning them for different reasons now.
My son is taught Gaelige by the man who writes most of the books used by schools in Ireland for studying towards examinations here i.e. the Junior Cert and Leaving Cert. He's very fortunate and often comes home with stories about how exciting he finds the lessons because he isn't just learning how to speak it but also learning about what Ireland has in common with not just European countries but others worldwide and how our language and culture evolved through various influences.
There are children in his class who've only been living in Ireland since they were 8/9/10 yrs old (from the Philippines) who excel at learning Ireland's native language despite the fact that they haven't had the same grounding in it as other children who've been in the Irish educational system since age 3/4 (children start school way too early in this country!!), so I'm sure you could do quite well.
I was trying to think of a good site for you but I'm sure if you google you might come across something on the net which will help you find out more.. But I remembered the comedian Des Bishop's success at learning the language by living in a Gaeltacht area for half a year (I think), he produced a series shown on RTE (The national TV station) called 'In the name of the Fada' about his experience. You might be interested in having a look at his website, he has a section on there devoted to teaching people Gaelige, it'll give you a little flavour of the language anyway.
http://abairleat.lurgan.biz/moodle/eir/3/abairLeat.php
On the question of Irish culture, we have lots and our Oirish culture is certainly not the Hollywood version touted by those who know nothing about Ireland (including those who were born and bred here) nor are our youth obsessed with American culture...I think our youth have a distinct and unique Irish way and voice. There's plenty for us to be proud of on this small Island.
We're very lucky to have extremely talented musicians here who are very popular amongst the Irish youth including The Script, Aslan, Munday, Damien Rice ...there's actually loads and loads.
On Irish TV, we have a lot of home grown programmes or series, devised, produced, written, directed and acted or fronted by Irish people, not Americans..admittedly we have a station here called TV3 which is owned by a British company called Granada, but whilst they use TV3 to show their own British made series, they've also managed to create some really good current affairs and news programmes using Irish journalists. We have a TV station here called TNaG, which is an Irish language station and has created some very worthwhile TV as well as clangers but they are well known for an award winning series they aired called 'Fíor Scéal' (True Story)
We have a college here dedicated to Film where many Irish wannabe film directors learn their trade. You must have heard of Neil Jordan the director and of Gabriel Byrne the actor, both are supportive of young film makers here..
We don't live in the dark ages and most of what is produced in or from this country travels well and can be successful abroad, including U2 amongst others, not least Ireland's literary greats and our Irish comedians. | |
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| How many of you speak Irish Gaelic?
Posted: 10/23/2009 5:55:33 PM | I dont speak it , but my four children are all fluent , 2 of them have studied it at 3rd level , and the other 2 use it as part of their jobs , so its not dead . It just may be awakening from a slumber | |
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| How many of you speak Irish Gaelic?
Posted: 10/24/2009 6:15:56 PM |
maryj53: I dont speak it , but my four children are all fluent , 2 of them have studied it at 3rd level , and the other 2 use it as part of their jobs , so its not dead . It just may be awakening from a slumber
That's really good to hear. I think that one can't really call oneself "Celtic" unless they at least attempt to learn to speak a Celtic language such as the various Goidelic (Gaelic) ones of Irish, Scottish, or Manx or Brythonic ones like Welsh, Breton, or Cornish. I've been learning Latin for a while and I think learning a "hard" language like that one will help me to learn others. Then again, I studied Russian for 2 years in college (university) and that has helped me with Latin because both use complex case systems (nominative, accusative, genitive, dative, ablative, etc.).
Filipino immigrant kids learning Irish? Then again, "Celtic" is not really a race but rather a way of looking at the world and the language one speaks plays a huge part in that. | |
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| How many of you speak Irish Gaelic?
Posted: 10/24/2009 7:55:32 PM | Interesting thread...I'm glad I stumbled onto it. I too am an American whose ancestry hails from (fathers side) Ireland. Even though I once had an Irish friend/roommate, I must admit I'm quite clueless when it comes to the history and modern culture of Ireland, which is a shame when you consider so much of America's ancestry (I think about 1/3 or so) come from Ireland.
So, I would like to take this time to express my gratitude to those who have taken the time to post here to give us a glimpse into what Ireland is like. Consequently, I think that I will pop into the local library and try to find a decent book on the history (hopefully accurate) of your great country.
Thanks again
Brian | |
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| How many of you speak Irish Gaelic?
Posted: 10/24/2009 8:11:37 PM | I speak Gaeilge fluently, i spoke Irish for years before i knew any english, along with the rest of my family its my first language.
Its a beautiful language, it s a pity more Irish people dont speak it.
Dúirt Padraig Pearse "Ní Tír gan teanga" is fíor é sin | |
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| How many of you speak Irish Gaelic?
Posted: 10/25/2009 2:23:57 AM | | You asked a simple question-so I will give a simple answer .Both my adult children and I speak Irish fluently and very proud of that!!! | |
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| How many of you speak Irish Gaelic?
Posted: 11/3/2009 3:49:05 PM |
Firstly, there is such a thing as Irish Gaelic, the term Gaelic refers to any of the closely related languages of the Celts in Ireland, Scotland, or (formerly) the Isle of Man ( http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Gaelic )
But an Irish person who knows even the smallest, most basic elements of their native language would call Irish Gaelic Gaelige to be correct or possibly adhere to the English language translation which is Irish.
Using the term Irish Gaelige is mixing two languages. It's as dumb as describing Spanish as Spanish Espanol or Italian Italiano. But this is a good example of the kind of wistful self reinforcing romantic escapism that a lot of Irish induldge in to get away from the reality of living in Ireland and getting royally screwed over by their government and Church.
Secondly, there are none and never have been any "romantic language Nazis who took over the state when the British left" - the closest thing we had to Nazis in this country were the British with their long history of genocidal tendencies in this country against the Native Irish.
OP read Tom Garvin Professor of Politics at University College Dublin and you'll learn how the romantic visionless idiots through their insistence that the revival of the Irish language should be achieved through the education system held this country back. The people who steadfastly refused to learn the language were the Irish themselves, the majority of whom associated it with a backward anti-modern view of Ireland. Last week on radio two councilors were arguing with an Irish language Nazi from Conrad na Gaelige over the cost of translating all county council documents into Irish. Just one study carried out cost €50 to publish but the cost of translation was €300,000.00. They have to do this because the Irish language Nazis have it written into law. Meanwhile old age pensioners have their benefits cut.
I don't suppose it's worth noting that someone who wants to convince you how well thought of the Irish language is in Ireland can't actually speak it themselves.
I was trying to think of a good site for you but I'm sure if you google you might come across something on the net which will help you find out more.. But I remembered the comedian Des Bishop's success at learning the language by living in a Gaeltacht area for half a year (I think), he produced a series shown on RTE (The national TV station) called 'In the name of the Fada' about his experience. You might be interested in having a look at his website, he has a section on there devoted to teaching people Gaelige, it'll give you a little flavour of the language anyway.
Yeah because if the language was as widely loved as the do do's like to make out he wouldn’t have to make a TV program trying to convince the natives to learn Irish. A more interesting program was where a native Irish speaker travelled the country and tried to do it only speaking Irish. He even travelled especially to areas listed as being Irish speaking. You can just guess what happened next.......
On the question of Irish culture, we have lots and our Oirish culture is certainly not the Hollywood version touted by those who know nothing about Ireland (including those who were born and bred here) nor are our youth obsessed with American culture...I think our youth have a distinct and unique Irish way and voice. There's plenty for us to be proud of on this small Island.
The biggest single most influential culture in Ireland is American followed closely by British culture. Flat caps would be closer to Irish culture than baseballs caps. You will hardly find any of the Irish youth wearing a flat cap. I can point a camera into O'Connell street tomorrow at any time of the day and catch someone wearing some item of clothing that originates from the US.
On Irish TV, we have a lot of home grown programmes or series, devised, produced, written, directed and acted or fronted by Irish people, not Americans..admittedly we have a station here called TV3 which is owned by a British company called Granada, but whilst they use TV3 to show their own British made series, they've also managed to create some really good current affairs and news programmes using Irish journalists. We have a TV station here called TNaG, which is an Irish language station and has created some very worthwhile TV as well as clangers but they are well known for an award winning series they aired called 'Fíor Scéal' (True Story)
TG4 (which is what it's actually called) has to be subsided to survive. Of the programs they broadcast in Irish almost all have to have English subtitles as if Irish was a foreign language being broadcast in another country. Many of the programs that the less travelled or romantically deluded Irish think of as "Irish programs" have formats borrowed from America or Britain. If you've never seen the Turbridy show don't worry: the format follows exactly that pioneered by David Letterman years before right down to the jumped up wedding band and the playing with a pen as a prop. The desk, the guest seating, and the endless procession of book promoters are just the same.
We have a college here dedicated to Film where many Irish wannabe film directors learn their trade. You must have heard of Neil Jordan the director and of Gabriel Byrne the actor, both are supportive of young film makers here.
All the graduates dream of making it in...Hollywood! Just like Neil Jordan and Gabriel Byrne who went so far as to move to America where he now lives. No one who makes it in Ireland as a film maker can claim to have made it as a film maker until they make it in Hollywood (eh and thats not the Hollywood just outside Dublin)
We don't live in the dark ages and most of what is produced in or from this country travels well and can be successful abroad, including U2 amongst others, not least Ireland's literary greats and our Irish comedians.
Most of Irelands literary greats had to move out of the country due to the small minded censorship of their works by religious fanatics loyal to Rome. As for the dark ages: this year the minister for justice brought in legislation to make blasphemy a crime with a heavy fine. This supposed to be the 21st century not the Middle Ages. 95% of schools in Ireland are run by a foreign organization (the catholic church limited posing as a religion) who teach Irish children about a Jewish zombie who is supposed to have died for three days in the Iron Age. This bullshit takes up hours of valuable school hours that could be put to better use.
Irish comedians follow a style of format developed in Britian and the US. Tommy Tiernan has a US agent. Almost all of the successful Irish comedians are that because they made it, not in Ireland, but in Britian.
Bono on the other hand might be an example of genuine Irish culture since he displays copious amounts of Irish hypocrisy. Help the starving on another continent but don't go mentioning the legions of Irish children enslaved, raped, tortured and imprisoned by the Catholic Church. That wouldn’t sell any albums. | |
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| How many of you speak Irish Gaelic?
Posted: 11/3/2009 9:59:45 PM | For a fledgling republic, almost a hundered years old, we're not doing so badly.
In your rush to pounce upon my post and dissect it by answering only the things you see fit to, which you think will highlight your argument and make it even a small bit valid you appear to have glossed over many of my points by focusing on 'my mistakes' (in your mistaken view)..
Irish Gaelic..not Irish Gaelige was what the OP spoke of - that's Gaelic!! Gaeilge is the word for the Irish language as Gaelige
The people who steadfastly refused to learn the language were the Irish themselves, the majority of whom associated it with a backward anti-modern view of Ireland.
Yeah....so you are aware then that when I wrote :
"Irish history is complex but one of the worst things to come of the British occupation is the attitude of some Irish people that to speak their own language is somehow bad, that our language is the language of peasants and not a language full of beautiful sounds and words with real meaning relating to thousands of years of Irish experience, we would be a soulless country if the effort to keep our language alive didn't succeed."
...that I was correct?
I don't suppose it's worth noting that someone who wants to convince you how well thought of the Irish language is in Ireland can't actually speak it themselves.
The OP and anybody else who cares may make note of that all they like..I'm sure that those who, similarly to me, had difficulty grasping how to learn Gaelige would agree that it wasn't made particularly easy for our generation - having the Búntas beaten into us as primary school pupils wasn't very inspiring, nor was studying the life and times of Peig Sawyers from County Donegal very thrilling - I still don't know what the hell that was all about..I just recall it was dead dreary..
I'm quite surprised that your usual hatred for all things Irish hasn't made you post on here about that infamous member of Aosdána who was caught out enjoying being a sex tourist or rather 'charity worker' in Nepal - Cathal Ó Searcaigh - whose poetry is studied for the leaving cert, the mention of him and how he was protected and defended by his fellow members of Aosdána would surely have cemented your argument that yes indeed this country is full of Gaelige Nazi's...
as to the rest of your silliness....Like I said the Irish sense of humour, culture, it's people, travel well and are loved and appreciated worldwide....
TG4 or TNaG as it was known a few short years ago...although subsidised (which is hardly a crime) and it's programmes subtitled - does not take away from the fact that it produces some good quality programmes and it's a good source of information for learning about Irish culture in depth also ..you get to hear the language spoken in a less formal way and watching those programmes helps you learn and understand a lot of vocabulary.
Do you ever have anything positive to say about Ireland? Seems to me that you are guilty of being one of those dreaded 'West Brits' who still believe we belong to the mainland and would be better off being as English as possible...well we're not English, we're Irish and we're allowed to be as Irish and proud of being Irish as we like without being told that being Irish means we are slaves to some ancient Roman rule which dictates how every single thing in this country is run - what a pile of crap!!!
And I can't believe you would be so petty as to resent money being spent on maintaining our language and culture in the work place ....wouldn't you be better off moaning about something more real..like the ludicrous cost of our T.D.'s expenses when comparing our government's waste of people's taxes to the terrible lack of money given to Ireland's OAP's...and all the rest?
I'm quite convinced that you are blinded by that cult of the Anti-God delusionists you are a fully paid up member of...stop believing their propaganda, try thinking for yourself ..I'm urging you..please! | |
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| How many of you speak Irish Gaelic?
Posted: 11/5/2009 3:31:05 AM | as far as i know Ireland is mainly an English speaking country. it may be that they have an Irish accent, but it is English what they speak. only a tiny minority speaks Gaelic 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
here in my country Spain we have the same pain in the arse with both the Basque and Catalans, they claim that their languages are so important... but the real fact is that most of the Basque and Catalans speak Spanish, above all in the Basque region where you find a lot of dumb pro-independence people who do not even know the language 'they are fighting for'. that is what i call a pile of crap!
is it too hard to admit and recognise that most people in Ireland, Basque and Catalan region speak English and Spanish respectively? the only difference is that Ireland is not part of the UK, whereas the Basque and Catalan regions are part of the Spain of course. | |
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| How many of you speak Irish Gaelic?
Posted: 11/5/2009 11:14:36 AM | From the OP:
I'm an American with a lot of Irish ancestry and would like to learn some Irish Gaelic.
Irish Gaelic..not Irish Gaelige was what the OP spoke of - that's Gaelic!! Gaeilge is the word for the Irish language as Gaelige
If you knew anything at all you’d know Americans commonly refer to Irish as Gaelic.
Yeah....so you are aware then that when I wrote :
"Irish history is complex but one of the worst things to come of the British occupation is the attitude of some Irish people that to speak their own language is somehow bad, that our language is the language of peasants and not a language full of beautiful sounds and words with real meaning relating to thousands of years of Irish experience, we would be a soulless country if the effort to keep our language alive didn't succeed."
...that I was correct?
Confused would be a better word.
Yeah…..so are you aware that you’d already written this:
Over half a million people out of 4 million or more living in Ireland speak Gaelige daily in areas known as Gaeltacht areas. There are many more who are capable of speaking it fluently but don't use it everyday and there are just as many who's Irish/Gaelige isn't fluent but they have a good understanding of it.
Pure fantasy; The Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs estimated in 2007 that about 17,000 people lived in strongly Irish-speaking communities. That does not even claim that they speak it daily. No one tried to estimate how many of them were putting on a demo for the department so they could keep their grants.
The OP and anybody else who cares may make note of that all they like..I'm sure that those who, similarly to me, had difficulty grasping how to learn Gaelige would agree that it wasn't made particularly easy for our generation - having the Búntas beaten into us as primary school pupils wasn't very inspiring, nor was studying the life and times of Peig Sawyers from County Donegal very thrilling - I still don't know what the hell that was all about..I just recall it was dead dreary.
Beating children into learning a dead language…..but……..Yeah are you aware you’d already written this:
Secondly, there are none and never have been any "romantic language Nazis who took over the state when the British left" - the closest thing we had to Nazis in this country were the British with their long history of genocidal tendencies in this country against the Native Irish.
Peig Sawyers in her shawl braving the Atlantic winds and spray battering the Blaskets being taught to the sound of children being beaten in school by eh…romantic language Nazis?
I'm quite surprised that your usual hatred for all things Irish hasn't made you post on here about that infamous member of Aosdána who was caught out enjoying being a sex tourist or rather 'charity worker' in Nepal - Cathal Ó Searcaigh - whose poetry is studied for the leaving cert, the mention of him and how he was protected and defended by his fellow members of Aosdána would surely have cemented your argument that yes indeed this country is full of Gaelige Nazi's...
Try making up your mind: first there are no Irish language Nazis now your claiming to have had Irish beaten into you and there are Irish language Nazis protecting child abusing Irish language poets. Which is it?
Of course maybe the British were to blame for that too…..
A holocaust of child rape and torture was (and still is) carried out by the Roman Church after the British left with the co-operation of Catholics in the government. That’s the same Roman Catholic Church that co-operated with Herr Hitler and removed his main obstacles to power and which by then had vilified the Jews for centuries. It was the RCC that invented the Jewish ghetto, distinct clothing to mark Jews out in public, forced conversion and it was a Pope who published the Bull that the Nuremburg Laws were based on. The closest thing to the Nazis in Ireland was not the British it was/is the Roman Catholic Church. Strangely enough (or not) the kind of people in Ireland who think it was the British are almost all products of schools run by……..The Catholic Church! Wow maybe there’s a connection!
TG4 or TNaG as it was known a few short years ago...although subsidised (which is hardly a crime) and it's programmes subtitled - does not take away from the fact that it produces some good quality programmes and it's a good source of information for learning about Irish culture in depth also ..you get to hear the language spoken in a less formal way and watching those programmes helps you learn and understand a lot of vocabulary.
So you want to tell everybody how great TG4 is and you’re such a fan of the station you forgot they’d changed the name? The programmes, which have to use subtitles in Ireland because so few people would understand them they’d go out of business, help people to learn the language but not …..you?
So where are all these people?
And I can't believe you would be so petty as to resent money being spent on maintaining our language and culture in the work place ....wouldn't you be better off moaning about something more real..like the ludicrous cost of our T.D.'s expenses when comparing our government's waste of people's taxes to the terrible lack of money given to Ireland's OAP's...and all the rest?
So millions are being wasted translating documents from English, a language that everyone speaks, into Irish so they can be stored at great expense for no one to ever read them. Meanwhile old people, the unemployed, children, workers, and mothers are having their incomes cut. But wishing to save money wasted on documents is petty. As for our TD’s: who elected them?
A. The kind of people who realise our idiots TD’s are a product of a tradition of visionless Gombeen Catholic romantic language revivalists parish pump politics
Or
B: The kind of people who, while our idiot TD’s are borrowing us into oblivion, go around saying things “like sure aren’t we a great little country, I’m so proud to be Irish…sure half a million speak the language….anything wrong, well sure that’s all because of the Brits.
I'm quite convinced that you are blinded by that cult of the Anti-God delusionists you are a fully paid up member of...stop believing their propaganda, try thinking for yourself ..I'm urging you..please!
Now you’re inventing cults and you can’t even do that properly.
As for propaganda: The Sacred Congregation de Propaganda Fide, was established by the Catholic Church in the 1622. That’s where the term originates but you were probably told in school it was the Brits. | |
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| How many of you speak Irish Gaelic?
Posted: 11/5/2009 4:17:52 PM | Hi
You asked a simple question but must have my say regarding comments posted!!
I am shocked and dismayed at the negative attitude towards the Irish Language. I have a passion for it and proud that I speak it I was reared in Irish and my second language is English.
Regardless of its history or how it came about it is a language that we as a nation should speak, understand and appreciate. It is apart of our history and currently many individuals speak it today I’m actually stuck for words, as I am so furious!!
You make some valid points but look back at the Irish Constitution 1937 and yes ruled by the Catholic Church but they had the foresight to give the people of Ireland an option to change this through the referendum process!! We as a nation have options and choices much to our horror today that we as a nation have voted this Government in who traded on Human Greed they have now put us in a horrific situation but it has no reflection of AN GAEILGE | |
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| How many of you speak Irish Gaelic?
Posted: 11/6/2009 4:46:19 PM | Hi :)
I'm a native speaker of Gaeilge and am very happy to report that contrary to what has been said in previous posts, the language is not dead. I don't agree with the compulsory teaching of the language - making anything compulsory seems to me to have only one effect: hostility and resentment...as has been shown in a number of contributions to your topic.
:) | |
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| How many of you speak Irish Gaelic?
Posted: 11/6/2009 6:41:37 PM | Msg 17, the more you post the less convincing your 'argument' is.
Are you now saying that you don't consider Mr. Stephen Fry a practical demi-god and that your greatest influence on your opinions isn't both the amazing Richard Dawkins and the author of that marvellous fictional tome "The DaVinci code" Dan Brown?
OP, out of twelve posters so far on this thread, three of whom are foreign nationals - four of them have related in their posts that they are native Irish speakers and proud of that, another is the mother of adult children who are fluent in Gaelige and I myself sent my children to a Gael Scoil for a time, they may not be fluent but they have a very good ear for the language and I happen to know that because they were taught through Irsh for a time that their aural understanding is quite finely tuned - I can only hope that as they go through adult life that this is something they will appreciate in the future and can expand upon and enjoy, meanwhile my children do very well at learning Gaeilge in a mainstream local comprehensive, I don't doubt that they will get very good results in important examinations when tested but my biggest hope is that they simply enjoy an opportunity to be practically bi-lingual and that they learn an appreciation for all languages given that important early start.
And to the poster who's posts are fueled by hatred for Ireland, if you imagine that the romantic language nazi's hold such sway with the government, why do you think they actively discourage the establishment of Gaelscoileanna throughout the country and refuse to give them the grants so easily given to other schools - if you are looking for conspiracy theories why not research the reasons for that! | |
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| How many of you speak Irish Gaelic?
Posted: 11/7/2009 8:52:18 PM | I disagree with DaVinciBro when he says the Irish language, Gaeilge, is dead!
It did die out a little in the 70s, 80s and 90s but it is being revived. I speak fluent Gaeilge and I know many people who can and do, also. There are areas in Ireland called "the Gaeltacht" where the natives speak Gaeilge as a first language, and most of the native children are only learning English at school.
During the summer, teenagers from all over Ireland go to the Gaeltacht to develop their learning of Gaeilge. (Typically 3 weeks boarding in a family home where Gaeilge is spoken as a first language.) These Gaeltacht summer camps are growing and becoming more popular each year.
As a teacher in Ireland, I teach Gaeilge 5 days a week along with other curricular subjects. Even though we have a lot of immigrants in our school, I have found that the immigrants are as good at picking up Gaeilge as the Irish themselves!
So, to end this on a positive note, má labhraíonn TÚ Gaeilge ní bheidh sí marbh! (If YOU speak Irish, it won't die!)  | |
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| How many of you speak Irish Gaelic?
Posted: 11/7/2009 10:52:01 PM |
Miss_Galway:I disagree with DaVinciBro when he says the Irish language, Gaeilge, is dead!
Well, if DaVinciBro is in Dublin, then most likely he doesn't hear it spoken a lot there since it's an international city. And most foreigners will know English before they'll know Irish. So I have to get him the benefit of a doubt.
It did die out a little in the 70s, 80s and 90s but it is being revived. I speak fluent Gaeilge and I know many people who can and do, also. There are areas in Ireland called "the Gaeltacht" where the natives speak Gaeilge as a first language, and most of the native children are only learning English at school.
Cornish did die out and is now being revived. Of course, that's a Brythonic Celtic language and not a Goidelic one. Yes, the Gaeltachtaí are the pockets of mostly Irish-speaking communities on Ireland's western coast.
During the summer, teenagers from all over Ireland go to the Gaeltacht to develop their learning of Gaeilge. (Typically 3 weeks boarding in a family home where Gaeilge is spoken as a first language.) These Gaeltacht summer camps are growing and becoming more popular each year.
That's good to hear. While I can understand immigrants assimilating to life in their adopted countries, still I think a lot of them lose their homeland language after 2 or 3 generations. For example, my great-grandmother's grandfather came from Spain and she didn't teach Spanish to her kids (my paternal grandfather being one of them), she knew the language and sang to them in Spanish when they were kids.
As a teacher in Ireland, I teach Gaeilge 5 days a week along with other curricular subjects. Even though we have a lot of immigrants in our school, I have found that the immigrants are as good at picking up Gaeilge as the Irish themselves!
Well, the immigrants are usually the most patriotic. That's true here in America as well, especially with those who came from poorer countries.
So, to end this on a positive note, má labhraíonn TÚ Gaeilge ní bheidh sí marbh! (If YOU speak Irish, it won't die!)
Here's my phonetic take on that: mah LUH-vree-uhn too GAYL-guh nee vay shee marv.
Tú is used in Spanish too. It is said the present-day Irish came from Spain around 1500 BC and according to legend, were led by Amergin whose Gaelic (not Scottish, at least not back then) forces overthrew the Tuatha dé Danaan (tribe of the goddess Danu) and took over Ireland. In translations of Homer's "The Odyssey" the Greeks are referred to as "Danaans". They say the rivers Danube and Don were named after Dana/Danu. Back then horse sacrifices were quite common from India to Ireland.
Of course, nowadays many Irish people are Roman Catholic. However, the Culdees (Céili Dé) seemed to be an interesting bunch. | |
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| How many of you speak Irish Gaelic?
Posted: 11/7/2009 11:19:15 PM |
Pedro_1976: as far as i know Ireland is mainly an English speaking country. it may be that they have an Irish accent, but it is English what they speak. only a tiny minority speaks Gaelic 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. I don't know how true that is (or isn't). That's why I'm asking the Irish. They know their country better than we foreigners do. here in my country Spain we have the same pain in the arse with both the Basque and Catalans, they claim that their languages are so important... but the real fact is that most of the Basque and Catalans speak Spanish, above all in the Basque region where you find a lot of dumb pro-independence people who do not even know the language 'they are fighting for'. that is what i call a pile of crap! Well, one's language is VERY to the people who speak it. This language issue has been going on for a long time in Spain. It's almost no wonder the Romans called your country Hispaniae ("Spains"). Leaders from the Catholic Monarchs (Ferdinand and Isabella) to Generalísimo Francisco Franco have been trying to get all of Spain under the Castilian language banner for centuries. People in Spain tend to primarily identify with their region rather than the country itself. "I'm from Catalunya. That's in Spain. And the Basques, they were there before the Romans and not every one of them wants to separate. Back to the Catalan language, that's spoken well beyond Spain's borders. is it too hard to admit and recognise that most people in Ireland, Basque and Catalan region speak English and Spanish respectively? the only difference is that Ireland is not part of the UK, whereas the Basque and Catalan regions are part of the Spain of course. Well, when it comes down to it, both English and Spanish are "imperial" languages because both of them have been spread by conquest and colonization. I think that in most European countries you'll have people who prefer to speak their local dialects, and some of them would be offended by having their language being referred to as merely a "dialect". Some people in Germany prefer to speak Low German. Some people in Italy prefer to speak a dialect instead of the standard Tuscan dialect which we know as Italian. In contrast, both bokmål and nynorsk are given equal rights as 2 standards of the Norwegian language. Even in Ireland there are different dialects. Sometime over 4,000 years ago we all probably spoke something akin to Proto-Indo-European. Then people spread out, mix and mingle with the natives, and the once-unified language becomes a lot of different languages and dialects. After Rome fell and communities became isolated from one another, what were dialects of Vulgar Latin (the common Latin, not the one of poets and politicians) became Romanian, Italian, French, Spanish, Portuguese, and some minor ones as well. And then dialects began in those languages. And so on. What's funny about those of us who speak an "imperial" language, we feel threatened when another one becomes prominent in our community. In Texas it's that way with Spanish. All the Anglos think the Mexicans should all learn English. And the Mexicans think all the Anglos should learn Spanish. | |
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| How many of you speak Irish Gaelic?
Posted: 11/13/2009 11:11:15 AM | let us see,
Castilian language, commonly known overseas as Spanish, started around the 9th century according to its first text found, and since then it became the main language as the County of Castile and later Kingdom of Castile became the most powerful kingdom in Spain. that is the reason leaders since the 11th or 12th century have made it the main language, above all with the marriage of the Catholic Monarchs in the 15th century with Isabella being Castilian of course.
i do not deny any other language in Spain (in case there is another one save for the Basque) but if Spanish is the main language in Spain, i expect everyone to speak it even if i travel to the north, northeast and northwest, you know what i mean! | |
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| How many of you speak Irish Gaelic?
Posted: 11/13/2009 2:44:20 PM | True. Same here in America (in the USA; I know that a lot of Spaniards when they say "America" they're referring to Latin America). English is the main language here and so people who come here should at least make an attempt to learn and speak it. With that said, their children will go to public schools and learn English and be socialized as Americans for the most part.
Well, the Galicians and Catalonians feel like their languages are languages unto themselves, not merely a dialect of Castilian Spanish. | |
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