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| Five Criteria of an Enslaved People
Posted: 10/18/2009 2:46:51 PM | Five criteria of an enslaved people & solutions to escape the cycle.
A lot of people complain nowadays that they feel enslaved. Over the last 100 years we have moved from a condition of freedom to slavery. There are five traditional elements of slavery.
1. Carl Marx said, "When people loose the means of production they become enslaved." If you have to work for someone else on their terms it's very difficult to have much autonomy. 100 years ago in America most people controlled their means of production. They owned their businesses or they were part owners. They owned land that they farmed themselves, whereas today very few American workers control their means of production.
2. Slaves generally don't have any effective access to political power. The power structure is beyond their reach. Power structures today have coalesced so high above the heads of the average person that no one can have any influence over any of their officials. 100 years ago government structures were more local and you had more hope of influencing your elected official and if you weren't happy you could always move to the neighboring jurisdiction. Today, the average person has no effective control or influence in government. And equally important, they have no way to escape this power structure.
3. Slaves are usually forced to pay heavy tribute or tax to their rulers. In this way we are more enslaved than any other people in history, as has been said by several people. Some free societies have a form of tax or they get those people in those societies to contribute in community projects. But there is a fundamental difference: Salves are taxed to the maximum extent possible before they revolt, whereas free people generally aren't taxed at such a heavy level. And it's the method in which free people are taxed. Free people are usually encouraged to participate in community projects by peer pressure and at the worst by banishment, whereas salves are never banished. You're not going to banish a valuable possession. So slaves are forced to pay tax with threat of violence. 100 years ago we didn't pay anywhere near as much tax as we do today. 30%-50% of your total income goes to tax. That's more than almost any historical slave society.
4. Slave societies generally have some type of economic debt based structure that keeps that slaves indentured. For example: you see money being issued as credit. Or Company script being issues to salves. And in the United States we have a debt based currency that’s issued by a small elite group that’s "allowed" to issue this currency to the rest of the population. This insures that the general population remains in debt. They can't really maintain wealth and ever pay off that debt. And their children can't pay off that debt. It perpetuates a cycle of debt and debt servitude.
5. A systematic abuse that conditions the slaves to abuse and destroys their self worth. This is the one condition that we don't meet in our current society. Perhaps because we don't have such a strong movement of enslavement. Perhaps because we have an armed populace. For whatever reason we don't have a systematic abuse of the population, yet.
So we do meet 4 out of the 5 criteria of an enslaved society. There is a very strong argument that we are an enslaved society. And this has happened to us just over the last few generations.
So what's the solution to all this? If you can adopt the mentality of a free person you have one enormous advantage because you are no longer being told by your rulers what you need to do in your life to fix all the problems. You're not chasing around imaginary terrorists which happen to be running around in the energy-rich region of the world. You're not going to eradicate poverty by subsidizing poverty. You don't have to spend all your time trying to figure out how to kill and steal from your fellow slaves the way rulers have always encouraged.
So number one-Do something to regain the means of production so you're not held by the whim of your employer.
Number two- people have no effective control over their ruling structure. When you have a national government that places most of the restrictions over you, the average person has no control over that. The best solution I've ever seen to this beyond a collective movement is that large distant governing structures tend to be very slow and easy for a motivated focused individual to outmaneuver.
Number 3- refer to the solution in number 1 and read how I found freedom in an unfree world by Harry Brown. Once you regain the means to production you find legally many loopholes in tax and taxation is easier to evade. The mega rich put plenty of loopholes for themselves so they don't have to pay the tax that the proletariat pays. Once you are your own boss you can escape quite a bit of tax.
Number 4- Don't hold a debt currency. Invest in precious metals, own a business, own land, whatever retains underlined value.
Eternal diligence is the price of freedom. | |
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| Five Criteria of an Enslaved People
Posted: 10/18/2009 3:57:15 PM | You have a very poor understanding of slavery. You've just made stuff up to try to "prove" a thesis that is faulty.
Entire cities can be enslaved - Sparta had a neighbouring city as a slave state - but it's completely different than what you've described. The very basis of slavery is lack of freedom - to try to equate your (already artificially low) tax rate as slavery is insulting. | |
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| Five Criteria of an Enslaved People
Posted: 10/18/2009 4:12:37 PM | Yup, reads more like a manifesto. Just so long as you don't start sending out bombs from an undisclosed mountain cabin, that would be good.
Are there problems with the way our society is structured? Well duh! No kidding! Hardly a newsflash there, is it. But compared to societies such as those based on the writings of Karl Marx, for instance, you've got it damn good.
You've got access to medicine. You have freedom of speech. Your long diatribe against the evils of society (without anyone pounding on your door) is clear evidence of that. You can actually, if you choose, work to "make a difference."
The problem is people sitting around their little coffee clutches, or over dinner, promulgating on the ills of society, puffing themselves up on just how intellectually superior they are and getting absolutely nothing accomplished in order to make things better. Why? Because that would take two things they're not prepared to extend: commitment and effort.
Am I a slave? No! I can choose my work. I can make my own way. Yes, I owe money. I also don't have to grow my own food. I don't have to haul my own water. The roads I travel on are reasonably good and, if there is a particular service I need, I can get it for the most part.
You want to improve things? Do something about it. Otherwise, you're just farting in a windstorm. | |
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| Five Criteria of an Enslaved People
Posted: 10/18/2009 4:14:39 PM | | I didn't make up any of this. I find it interesting that you are insulted with my comment about tax, though. And yes, we do have good roads, how else are we to move to and from work. | |
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| Five Criteria of an Enslaved People
Posted: 10/18/2009 4:23:41 PM |
5. A systematic abuse that conditions the slaves to abuse and destroys their self worth
Does brain washing count?
Number 4- Don't hold a debt currency. Invest in precious metals, own a business, own land, whatever retains underlined value.
Is a person a slave if it is their free-will to be enslaved?
With regards to the above advice. Imagine that you produce for yourself. Imagine that you're entirely self sufficient. Then what? Are you free when one's produce must be maintained? Is one free from thoughts concerning the increased risk of being targeted for their produce? Is one truly free if one resists the limitations of their own produce.
If you can adopt the mentality of a free person you have one enormous advantage because you are no longer being told by your rulers what you need to do in your life to fix all the problems. You're not chasing around imaginary terrorists which happen to be running around in the energy-rich region of the world. You're not going to eradicate poverty by subsidizing poverty. You don't have to spend all your time trying to figure out how to kill and steal from your fellow slaves the way rulers have always encouraged.
Then isn't having a free mentality all one needs to be free?
Its interesting that one is free to "Don't hold a debt currency. Invest in precious metals, own a business, own land, whatever retains underlined value." but not necessarily free if they do not do these things. What if they are self sufficient by other means and just don't want to produce? Isn't it taking away from ones freedom to propose a solution that will make one free. Especially if the person is free to make such a decision at will and especially if a person wants to do the exact opposite.
The point is that a true slave would not have the freedom to invest in precious metal or the sort. The enslavers wouldn't allow it. Its the nature of being a slave. But we can and without opposition. Therefore how can we be slaves?
Lastly, there is a million dollar on the top of a mountain. There is a probability that one could loose their life if he/she climbs the mountain. Is the person who wants the million dollars free? No. Because he/she is enslaved by the fear of climbing the mountain. But is the person free to make the choice to climb the mountain. Yes. There's nothing stopping he/she from climbing the mountain.
Maybe the only solution is to "adopt the mentality of a free person". A free person is free to climb the mountain as much as a free person can invest in precious metals. A person doesn't need to produce to be free.
If I am completely satisfied within the limits of the environment I exist in, then am I not free. If not then how can freedom exist? And how can we argue solutions which in themselves limit one to a certain type of thinking. Surely such solutions are limits against freedom. | |
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| Five Criteria of an Enslaved People
Posted: 10/18/2009 4:37:37 PM | | If the OP is about economic freedom only and not freedom in the general sense then there maybe something to debate. A billionaire is more free to go anywhere they want (diamond encrusted jet) than a teacher making 35k a year. | |
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| Five Criteria of an Enslaved People
Posted: 10/18/2009 4:42:35 PM |
If the OP is about economic freedom only and not freedom in the general sense then there maybe something to debate. A billionaire is more free to go anywhere they want (diamond encrusted jet) than a teacher making 35k a year.
Yes, let's keep it to political, economic, financial freedom. | |
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| Five Criteria of an Enslaved People
Posted: 10/18/2009 8:33:04 PM | We are definately inslaved.
The greatest form of slavery is when you think you are free.
By playing into the hands of the illuminati and paticipating in their wealth generating fractional reserve banking system,living our lives with blinders on, being completely irresponsible and greedy and truly being oblivious to what really goes on behind the scenes we are going to enslave ourselves to the point of the planet being under one rule in a fascist socialistic existence.
Do I believe in how they acquired maintain and increase their power throughout the centuries? ABSOLUTELY not!!! but we as a society are not capable of functioning on our own without rulers and we dont want the power.This way we can idolize someone and then hope they save us with the power we gave them.Or for some, ask god to save them.
Most of us are extremely primitive in thought.Having the inability to see the BIG picture and the inability to accept blame for our own ineptitude or to do something about it to better ourselves and for the sake of the planet. We are extremely selfish and self centered most with the inability to think for ourselves.Critical thinking is a obscure activity. Unfortunately at it's most critical point.
My point? We are way over populated and we need rulers to figure out what to do REAL FASTor within 100 yrs we will face mass starvation but we have to also take back some of the power we gave them at the same time.
Ihave a solution.Whats yours? | |
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| Five Criteria of an Enslaved People
Posted: 10/19/2009 6:41:51 AM |
Eternal diligence is the price of freedom. Yup. It's the price of any freedom, such as driving a car without killing yourself or other people. To drive responsibly, one must constantly keep one's eyes on the road, eternal diligence. Other freedoms are no different. | |
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| Five Criteria of an Enslaved People
Posted: 10/19/2009 4:00:30 PM | "100 years ago in America most people controlled their means of production."
Total bullshit. Today we have, per capita, many more entrepreneurs and small business owners than 100 years ago. It is easier now, in this country, to design one's own life than just about anywhere else at any given time. I happen to be one of those who has taken advantage of this fact, and I know or have met hundreds of others who have also taken the plunge of financial and political self-determination.
While I perhaps could have made more money in the corporate "rat-race" , and never enjoyed gagging on tear gas or being thrown in the pokey for exercising my right of peaceful assembly, I feel blessed to have achieved the level of freedom that I enjoy today.
If you think the lot of the average farmer, ranch hand, or tenement dweller 100 years ago would be preferable to that of the average worker today, you have a hopelessly romantic and/or ill-informed grasp of our past.
Our past can be seen as a dynamic process of various groups asserting their rights and demanding certain freedoms. Mormons, Suffragettes, labor unions, racial equality, immigration, etc.: Our story is of the disenfranchised grasping for the promises made in our Founding Documents. Our story is not over, nor are we "enslaved" by any reasonable measure or historic example.
Many have sacrificed health, wealth, and life so that we can enjoy our (generally) gloriously comfortable and prosperous existences today.
The OP trivializes that which has earned the United States its unique place in history. | |
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| Five Criteria of an Enslaved People
Posted: 10/19/2009 5:30:51 PM | i find many people today to be slaves to the ego, because, if you try to get people to realize that we are, the manifested toughts of the Supreme GOD, it causes ego to rise up in them; unless they are already conscious- aware. So i find that there is only one criteria of an enslaved people, and that is to worship that which they have no idea of, in Truth. GOD is all powerful, full of glory, majesty and all goodness, and there was not anything made that was made- without HIM in it- oh, except for the people who are enslaved to the ego and thinks HE lives somewhere else- other than inside of them.
Namaste` | |
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| Five Criteria of an Enslaved People
Posted: 10/19/2009 6:45:17 PM | Re: nothinglefttoburn
A lot of people complain nowadays that they feel enslaved. Over the last 100 years we have moved from a condition of freedom to slavery. There are five traditional elements of slavery.
Those people have a pretty general glass half empty outlook on the truly lucky and very free life they choose to live.
1. Carl Marx said, "When people loose the means of production they become enslaved." If you have to work for someone else on their terms it's very difficult to have much autonomy. 100 years ago in America most people controlled their means of production. They owned their businesses or they were part owners. They owned land that they farmed themselves, whereas today very few American workers control their means of production.
Personally, I like shopping at the super markets, and don't care for gardening. If that means I'm enslaved to a lack of producing for myself, it's because I feel it's time better spent to focus my attention in other areas. If people did have to fend for themselves to produce their own food/water, they there time would be slaved to the work involved with maintaining crops, livestock ect... wouldn't it!
3. Slaves are usually forced to pay heavy tribute or tax to their rulers. In this way we are more enslaved than any other people in history, as has been said by several people. Some free societies have a form of tax or they get those people in those societies to contribute in community projects. But there is a fundamental difference: Salves are taxed to the maximum extent possible before they revolt, whereas free people generally aren't taxed at such a heavy level. And it's the method in which free people are taxed. Free people are usually encouraged to participate in community projects by peer pressure and at the worst by banishment, whereas salves are never banished. You're not going to banish a valuable possession. So slaves are forced to pay tax with threat of violence. 100 years ago we didn't pay anywhere near as much tax as we do today. 30%-50% of your total income goes to tax. That's more than almost any historical slave society.
You have freedom of speech, no one is stopping you from rallying together million of people, and demanding an overthrow to the current governments so that you could implement you're own system... and please let me assure you, one where you're not asking the people to contribute would fail very quickly.
You should take a look at the Anarchy sociality... that isn't a joke, there is a serious action for an anarchy style government where people are each allowed to govern themselves. Personally I think it's a hideously idea, but it has a growing following I won't be apart of.
I don't mind dropping my share into giant money bags of our government knowing they are doing their best to keep the system going.
4. Slave societies generally have some type of economic debt based structure that keeps that slaves indentured. For example: you see money being issued as credit. Or Company script being issues to salves. And in the United States we have a debt based currency that’s issued by a small elite group that’s "allowed" to issue this currency to the rest of the population. This insures that the general population remains in debt. They can't really maintain wealth and ever pay off that debt. And their children can't pay off that debt. It perpetuates a cycle of debt and debt servitude.
While I have credit cards, I maintain 0 balance on all of them, I like to know my money is working for me, and not against me. Money management is extremely important in todays time, and if you can't afford something... you shouldn't buy it. If you must have that new car, or big TV... well... That's your choice isn't it!
5. A systematic abuse that conditions the slaves to abuse and destroys their self worth. This is the one condition that we don't meet in our current society. Perhaps because we don't have such a strong movement of enslavement. Perhaps because we have an armed populace. For whatever reason we don't have a systematic abuse of the population, yet.
I was honestly expecting you to make some sort of comment about the media, pop culture.
So we do meet 4 out of the 5 criteria of an enslaved society. There is a very strong argument that we are an enslaved society. And this has happened to us just over the last few generations.
I'm not a religious person... but you should blow the dust off a bible and look through the book of Exodus. You can read first hand details on Moses let his people treat 'servants' that they picked up along the way. While I don't remember quotes... I can remember something about servants having to spend years in service to their masters or be put to death. I remember reading that is a master buys a servant a wife, then that wife and any kids she might have had are property of the master after the service was ended... Good stuff like that.
That my friend is slavery, that is a lack of freedom... No one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to do anything, what you do with your life is your choice... including complaining about it... Just like it's our choice to take this time to respond, it hopes that you can see the light, and maybe admit that things could be a lot worse. | |
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| Five Criteria of an Enslaved People
Posted: 10/19/2009 7:54:14 PM | ---You have a very poor understanding of slavery. You've just made stuff up to try to "prove" a thesis that is faulty.---
That just about sums it up. You can add a poor understanding of economics,
history, and human nature. | |
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| Five Criteria of an Enslaved People
Posted: 10/19/2009 7:56:09 PM | ---You have a very poor understanding of slavery. You've just made stuff up to try to "prove" a thesis that is faulty.---
That just about sums it up. You can add a poor understanding of economics,
history, and human nature. | |
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| Five Criteria of an Enslaved People
Posted: 10/19/2009 8:11:00 PM | Yup , Halftime Dad pretty much summed it up.
OP , if you don't like it , pack your belongings , head north until you don't see anybody for a few days , and be "free". Happy trails.
Further proof that people today in our society have run out of things to complain about. | |
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| Five Criteria of an Enslaved People
Posted: 10/19/2009 8:57:56 PM | RE Msg: 6 by exogenist:
If the OP is about economic freedom only and not freedom in the general sense then there maybe something to debate. A billionaire is more free to go anywhere they want (diamond encrusted jet) than a teacher making 35k a year. Depends. In theory, the billionaire has more freedom. But he also has more worries. A billionaire worries about if his new girlfriend only wants to marry him for his money, and doesn't really care about him at all. A billionaire doesn't know which of his friends would be there if he wasn't rich. A billionaire cannot afford to take time off his holidays, partly because he only keeps his billions by constantly working, and partly because it took him so long to make that money by working all the hours, it's now a habit for him, and he feels completely lost when he's not at work. A billionaire worries if he'll be blackmailed, or if his wife or children will be kidnapped and held to ransom. A billionaire worries what he'll do if he loses it all, because he's been rich so long, and his life is so different from an ordinary guy, that he's terrified of the possibility of going back to that life. A billionaire's life is not easy at all. I've met quite a few, and many were married 4 times, and single now, because they were married to their business, and their wife didn't want to be treated like a mistress.
If you don't believe me, check out the lottery. Lotteries offer free counselling to big winners, who win millions. With that kind of money, you could get counselling your whole life, and it would never make a serious dent in your wealth. So why offer to pay for it, to the one group who definitely can afford it, with no hardship at all? The reason is that so many lottery winners develop serious emotional problems in dealing with their new-found wealth, that they NEED counselling really really bad, and they suffer greatly because of it. Lottery companies offer it free, because it's a PR exercise. People would be apt to blame lottery companies for making so many lottery winners unhappy. But if the lottery company offers counselling for free, and the lottery winners take it, then the lottery company did what it could to prevent the problems, and the rest is not their fault. If the lottery company offers counselling for free, and the lottery winners don't take it, then the lottery company did what it could to prevent the problems, and it's still not their fault, but the fault of the lottery winners for not taking the free counselling. After all, it's free. What have you got to lose?
Having lots of money doesn't automatically make you happier. Many times, it makes you far less happy. | |
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| Five Criteria of an Enslaved People
Posted: 10/20/2009 5:13:58 AM | Post 19: I fail to find equivalence between billionaires who, according to you, have developed a habit of working their asses off, and millionaires who came by their wealth by plunking a few bucks down at the convenience store.
The odds of any particular American individual being a billionaire are probably better than the odds of winning a state (or multi-state) lottery; this is not the same as saying that the odds of any particular person becoming a billionaire are better than that individual winning a particular lottery.
Those who play the lottery generally have no hope of becoming (or, in the case of the few big winners, staying) truly wealthy, as the "money for (almost) nothing" mindset is in opposition to the habits that lead to wealth generation, multiplication, and retention.
I have known quite a few millionaires and have met a few billionaires (Sam Walton comes immediately to mind); I have not noticed anything that would lead me to believe that these folks are any more happy or unhappy than hundred-thousandaires like me. Most have been fascinating; but then, so are most of the people with whom I associate, moneyed or not.
Chances are pretty good that most people reading this have met or known a number of people possessing great wealth without realizing it. One of my best friends in the 80s, an elderly security guard at the Farmers Market across the street from my first business, used to share my beer with me between his WatchClock rounds when I worked late (which was often). I knew him for quite some time before I found out that he had more money than he knew what to do with. He lived in a garage apartment and drove a beat-up station wagon. Just a good-ol'-boy, but one of the happiest people I knew (he used his money to grub-stake farmers until they could bring their crops in to market).
At the same time I was dating the daughter of the biggest banker in the state. She was very wealthy and made it quite apparent: big Caddy, fancy clothes, mansion in the "right" neighborhood, etc. She was one of the unhappiest people I have ever known intimately.
I read so many generalizations online, and the preponderance of them are based on wishful thinking, "common sense", or "conventional wisdom" derived from lowbrow media sources, rather than from direct experience or any other sort of empiricism.
Most everything in modern life is too complicated to reduce to sound bites, slogans, or simplistic and spurious concepts. The OP is a perfect example. | |
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| Five Criteria of an Enslaved People
Posted: 10/20/2009 7:38:27 AM | Jiperly, most of these ideas are not my own, they came from reading "How to Find Freedom in an Unfree World" by Harry Brown.
Light Storm, you're missing the point, brother. The post is on being enslaved by your government. That's the big picture. That's the big idea. You can't rally ten, one hundred, one thousand, or even one million people today without a permit. Before you can rally the troops you have to go through the proper channels.
NotTooFishy, while I value your opinion, things aren't exactly as you make them out to be either.
While I'm not looking to turn this into a debate- this is more like the spreading of information- I'd like to hear halftimedad's take on what he feels slavery IS, as he believes my take on slavery is all wrong. Consequently, we have all had our share of misunderstandings and we're all here to learn from our mistakes, right? But if you're taking a defensive stances because you're threatened by new ideas, you're not open to learning.
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| Five Criteria of an Enslaved People
Posted: 10/20/2009 8:38:39 AM | Slavery is pretty damn simple - it's the absence of freedom.
There was a National Book Award winning book called "Freedom" out a few years ago that made a very convincing case that the entire western concept of freedom comes out of the Greek experience of slavery. We don't recognize freedom until we feel it's absence.
Slaves have no control of their own lives. If you can walk into a book store and shop for an author that confirms your own preconceptions, then you're not a slave. You have money in your pocket that you can spend any way you want. You have to time to browse for and read the book.
There are slaves in the world today. To equate your disagreement with the way civil society is organized with their experience is flatly adding insult to injury to them. If you want to fight slavery - get involved with the plight of real slaves. Because you have the option of doing that. | |
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| Five Criteria of an Enslaved People
Posted: 10/20/2009 8:46:48 AM | I stopped reading pretty quick. #1, actually.
If you're unhappy "working for the man" and you want to start your own business, nobody will stop you. People do it all the time.
Kind of makes it difficult to suggest we're not in control of our own lives. | |
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| Five Criteria of an Enslaved People
Posted: 10/20/2009 10:29:33 AM |
Depends. In theory, the billionaire has more freedom. But he also has more worries. A billionaire worries about if his new girlfriend only wants to marry him for his money, and doesn't really care about him at all. A billionaire doesn't know which of his friends would be there if he wasn't rich. A billionaire cannot afford to take time off his holidays, partly because he only keeps his billions by constantly working, and partly because it took him so long to make that money by working all the hours, it's now a habit for him, and he feels completely lost when he's not at work. A billionaire worries if he'll be blackmailed, or if his wife or children will be kidnapped and held to ransom. A billionaire worries what he'll do if he loses it all, because he's been rich so long, and his life is so different from an ordinary guy, that he's terrified of the possibility of going back to that life. A billionaire's life is not easy at all. I've met quite a few, and many were married 4 times, and single now, because they were married to their business, and their wife didn't want to be treated like a mistress.
 I was wondering if anyone would make this point. To keep it short, sweet and simple "more money more problems" or better yet "more money and a different set of problems and advantages one has to deal with. Problems and advantages which are likely to be greater in magnitude". If a person's mentality within their environment resists the confines of their environment (like a poor man in the ghetto who wants to be rich) then they are not free.
They are not free because for freedom to be realized for them, they must overcome the confines of their environment (I shouldn't say environment. I think perception would be more accurate) A billionaire may never be satisfied with his/her billions and may really want (or in his/her perception need) to be a trillionaire. It's like reaching to the top of the mountain to find there is another mountain to climb.
In this way, greed can be an enslaver as much as physical enslavement. Money doesn't necessarily bring more freedom. Its dependent on one's perception.
To back up the statement consider that the happiest nations in the world (according to recent research that measure happiness in relation to the people and not GDP) do not nearly have the standard of living as the USA does.
This thinking, however, only works if one thinks of freedom as the perception of one's mentality.
If freedom, concerning the OP, is thought of as physically real and dependent on resources and produce then the most free man is the one who is capable of manipulating and controlling all the worlds resources.
For many moral reasons (and thankfully to history for showing us what dictatorship can do) I believe that line of thinking to be disastrous and I believe this is where the OPs point is debatable.
Basically, what happens if Bill-Gates buys and regulates all the planets computer systems (including all the enterprises on the internet). What happens then if Bill Gates decides to be an ass-hole? | |
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