| Did the President LIE on September 9, 2009 ... in his speech to Congress?
Posted: 10/21/2009 3:53:14 PM | Okay ... I guess it's time someone finally starts a thread about the famous "lie" the President supposedly told. So here it is.
On Sept. 9, 2009 at 8 PM, President OBAMA ... was in the process of making a speech to Congress when someone rudely yelled out, "You lie!"
I have posted a link that will take you to the actual text of the speech and I have checked ... about midway down the 4th page is where one can find the statement that President OBAMA was in the process of making when the incident occurred.
There has been a lot of off topic ranting in another thread about whether or not the President actually lied. I say he didn't.
Please note ... this thread is not about Joe Wilson ... there is another thread already posted for that purpose.
This thread is about whether or not the President lied when he said what is quoted below ...
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/10/us/politics/10obama.text.html
From Page 4 ...
There are also those who claim that our reform effort will insure illegal immigrants. This, too, is false – the reforms I'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally.
Discussion ... | |
|
| Did the President LIE on September 9, 2009 ... in his speech to Congress?
Posted: 10/21/2009 6:02:27 PM | Damn, Cotter...can you hear the crickets?
There are also those who claim that our reform effort will insure illegal
immigrants.
This, too, is false – the reforms I'm proposing would
not apply to those who are here illegally.
Seems fairly clear--'illegal immigrants', 'reforms would not apply', 'this, too, is false'.
The reforms would not insure illegal immigrants.
Where's the argument? | |
|
| |
| |
| |
| Did the President LIE on September 9, 2009 ... in his speech to Congress?
Posted: 10/21/2009 9:15:47 PM |
Seems fairly clear--'illegal immigrants', 'reforms would not apply', 'this, too, is false'.
The reforms would not insure illegal immigrants.
Where's the argument?
I guess it's a lie if you think telling only half the truth is a lie. There was a provision in the bill that specifically exempted illegal immigrants. The problem is that there's nothing in the bill that allows for the determination of who is an illegal immigrant. Repuglicans tried to add language that would give the provision teeth, but they were defeated by the Demoncrats. The bill leaves itself wide open for fraud by illegals. It's a great lesson in how to deceive people without saying anything that's false. | |
|
| |
| Did the President LIE on September 9, 2009 ... in his speech to Congress?
Posted: 10/21/2009 9:23:12 PM |
There was a provision in the bill that specifically exempted illegal immigrants.
Repuglicans tried to add language that would give the provision teeth, but they were defeated by the Demoncrats. Show proof that it WAS in the bill and got thrown out. When did that happen? When did the Democrats defeat it?
Shouldn't be too hard if you have read it somewhere ... then there should be a link for it.
Prove it | |
|
| Did the President LIE on September 9, 2009 ... in his speech to Congress?
Posted: 10/21/2009 9:32:36 PM |
Show proof that it WAS in the bill and got thrown out. When did that happen? When did the Democrats defeat it?
Shouldn't be too hard if you have read it somewhere ... then there should be a link for it.
Prove it
The Repuglicans never got the anti-fraud measures put into the bill. The Demoncrats defeated their attempts.
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/09/obamas-health-care-speech/ | |
|
| Did the President LIE on September 9, 2009 ... in his speech to Congress?
Posted: 10/21/2009 9:52:35 PM |
The Repuglicans never got the anti-fraud measures put into the bill. The Demoncrats defeated their attempts. First I found the following which is what I thought you wanted me to see ... thank you for that.
It clearly said the President was not a liar.
Obama was correct when he said his plan wouldn’t insure illegal immigrants; the House bill expressly forbids giving subsidies to those who are in the country illegally. Conservative critics complain that the bill lacks an enforcement mechanism, but that hardly makes the president a liar.
Then I found the following ... which does back up what you said about it being voted down along party lines ...
The president is correct: The House bill contains a section (Sec. 246) titled "NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS," which states: "Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States."
However, conservative critics object to a lack of specific enforcement measures in the bill. They argue that the lack of a specific verification mechanism constitutes a loophole that would allow illegal immigrants to get benefits despite the legal prohibition. Republican Rep. Dean Heller of Nevada proposed an amendment to the bill that would have required the use of the Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements program to check the immigration status of anyone applying for federal coverage or affordability credits. SAVE is the program used by Medicaid and similar entitlement programs. That amendment was voted down along party lines by the House Ways and Means Committee.
But then it continued ... and towards the end of the paragraph I note that it says something about Wilson being out of bounds to call the President's statement a lie. Of course, that's based on what the following paragraph sheds light on ...
Republicans have a point here: More could be done to enforce the ban. But it’s worth remembering that, as a spokesperson for the American Immigration Lawyers Association told us, attempting to get a health care credit would have legal repercussions. "Making a fraudulent claim to an entitlement program when you’re not actually entitled to it would have serious consequences for any person," the spokesperson told us, "but especially if it’s considered a false claim to citizenship, that would have serious immigration consequences that could ultimately lead to deportation." And Rep. Wilson certainly was out of bounds to call the president’s statement a "lie." He later issued a statement apologizing for his "inappropriate and regrettable" comments.
Sooooo ... it was not a lie.They have their bases covered ... they know it will be next to impossible for for "illegals" to obtain health care credit. I imagine that "illegals" may still try to use the Emergency Rooms as they have in the past, but it will be very apparent and much easier to track as the Emergency Rooms will no longer be so crowded with so many of our "legals" who now have to frequent the Emergency Rooms for their own health care. They will be able to afford to actually go to a doctor. Imagine such a luxury!!! | |
|
| Did the President LIE on September 9, 2009 ... in his speech to Congress?
Posted: 10/21/2009 10:19:36 PM |
Sooooo ... it was not a lie.
Right. It was more like a half truth. Calling him a liar has more snap than calling him a half-truther.
I love what the representative from AILA says: "Making a fraudulent claim to an entitlement program when you’re not actually entitled to it would have serious consequences for any person but especially if it’s considered a false claim to citizenship, that would have serious immigration consequences that could ultimately lead to deportation."
Uh, shouldn't all illegals be deported anyway? So they get deported and then a couple days later they're back in the US illegally. As a bonus the US taxpayer got to pay for their health care. | |
|
| Did the President LIE on September 9, 2009 ... in his speech to Congress?
Posted: 10/21/2009 10:57:43 PM |
Uh, shouldn't all illegals be deported anyway? Of course they should, but I sure don't want to be the one who rips the babies away from the nursing mothers in order to accomplish that.
Also, we have some very different "illegals" here as well ... often students who have forgotten to renew their study visas. They usually are no burden whatsoever on society and so we'd probably have to give them a chance to renew their visas before just shipping them out of here.
But in the end, it seems to me this medical bill could be good for us in many ways ... it will make available to all of us "affordable" health care and perhaps weed out the "illegals" that all are complaining about.
Like I have said, it's been my experience (working in the health care field) that the "illegals" actually seldom seek medical care in any way close to the frequency our own citizens run to the Emergency Room ... because they know they will be found out. But when our citizens all have viable medical cards, it will stand out like a sore thumb when someone walks into the ER without one.
We will not be able to get around treating all emergencies, but once the so-called "emergency" is treated and the patient is out of danger ... if it can be established, that they are an "illegal" ... off they go!!! | |
|
| Did the President LIE on September 9, 2009 ... in his speech to Congress?
Posted: 10/22/2009 12:40:54 PM | For years I argued that Preisdent Bush didn't lie about WMD's in Iraq. I honestly felt that he thought there were WMD's there. It was my belief that if he truly thought they were there, then it wasn't a lie.
After many years, I believe I was wrong.
It is my belief now that President Obama knows there is no way to keep illegals from getting health care. By saying that they "will not" but knowing or believing that they will, is at best a half truth.
Bush lied. and Obama is lying. | |
|
| Did the President LIE on September 9, 2009 ... in his speech to Congress?
Posted: 10/22/2009 12:48:13 PM |
It is my belief now that President Obama knows there is no way to keep illegals from getting health care. By saying that they "will not" but knowing or believing that they will, is at best a half truth.
Bush lied. and Obama is lying.
President Obama did not say illegals will not get health care, he said they will not be included in the reform bill, he did not lie. | |
|
| Did the President LIE on September 9, 2009 ... in his speech to Congress?
Posted: 10/22/2009 5:29:05 PM |
It is my belief now that President Obama knows there is no way to keep illegals from getting health care. By saying that they "will not" but knowing or believing that they will, is at best a half truth
This is about the issue of prevention of crime. No president has been blamed for prevention of crime before. Why would you start doing that now?
Let me ask this other question: Did you blame, and do you continue blaming George W. Bush for not preventing all the crimes that occurred during his administration, including the 9/11 attacks?
I will repeat what I have said somewhere else about the demand that the president is responsible for prevention of crimes. Expecting that president Obama prevents all criminals from breaking the laws is something that goes beyond the realm of the impossible. Do you blame God for not preventing the people from breaking the rules that he gave to Moses? And God should have known better, in my opinion. So you want president Obama to do better than God? That sounds blasfemous to me.
My guess is that you don't care about anything anyone has to say about the issue of prevention. You just want to blast president Obama, and only president Obama.
Do I need to wonder why? | |
|
| Did the President LIE on September 9, 2009 ... in his speech to Congress?
Posted: 10/22/2009 8:17:05 PM | Actually this is one issue that I believe is not truly partisan....Illegal immigration is one reason that McCain was not a popular choice as candidate for many on the right......I do not think Illegals should get amnesty they should be deported and enter America legally.,,,,Didn't like Bush's inaction in regards to illegals either.....No matter how you look at it Millions of people have broken the Law and and violated our Immigration Laws.They utilize our Hospitals Schools etc....either by use of Illegal Documentation or by the good grace of people willing to turn the other way...
The reason people are upset with Obama is because if you are going to Reform the system Something Has to be done about Illegal Immigration otherwise reforming the system will not be effective....you aren't talking about a few thousand people you are talking about anywhere between 15 and 20 million....how can you make a real effort at reform when you aren't willing to address 15-20 million potential users of the Health Care System? | |
|
| |
| Did the President LIE on September 9, 2009 ... in his speech to Congress?
Posted: 10/23/2009 7:22:57 AM |
This is about the issue of prevention of crime. No president has been blamed for prevention of crime before. Why would you start doing that now?
umm, no.....this is about lying.
Let me ask this other question: Did you blame, and do you continue blaming George W. Bush for not preventing all the crimes that occurred during his administration, including the 9/11 attacks?
Perhaps a little lesson in reading comprehension is in order.
I will repeat what I have said somewhere else about the demand that the president is responsible for prevention of crimes. Expecting that president Obama prevents all criminals from breaking the laws is something that goes beyond the realm of the impossible.
Dude, or Dudette........seriously. Your comprehension skills are needing some help.
Do you blame God for not preventing the people from breaking the rules that he gave to Moses? And God should have known better, in my opinion. So you want president Obama to do better than God? That sounds blasfemous to me.
What????? Did you just compare Obama to God????? Or is he Moses in your scenario???
do I need to wonder why?
Yes, please, enlighten me as to why! I'd love to hear it! | |
|
| Did the President LIE on September 9, 2009 ... in his speech to Congress?
Posted: 10/23/2009 7:29:07 AM |
President Obama did not say illegals will not get health care, he said they will not be included in the reform bill, he did not lie.
Earl, seriously. Saying that they will not be included on the reform bill, but knowing that they will get health care is at best a half truth.
where I come from, that is a lie.
The whole truth and nothing but the truth.
| |
|
| Did the President LIE on September 9, 2009 ... in his speech to Congress?
Posted: 10/23/2009 8:27:48 AM |
President Obama did not say illegals will not get health care, he said they will not be included in the reform bill, he did not lie.
Earl, seriously. Saying that they will not be included on the reform bill, but knowing that they will get health care is at best a half truth.
where I come from, that is a lie.
The whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Illegals have been entitled to health care since 1985, where have you been that you don't know or is it an inconvienance for you to know? If you do know then pretending you don't know is at best a half truth, what is a half truth where you come from?
Putting your spin on the wording does not make it a fact, what is a fact is that illegals are not going to be entitled to health care on the reform bill= President Obama did not LIE and those who accuse him of lying or either uninformed or distorting the truth | |
|
| |
| Did the President LIE on September 9, 2009 ... in his speech to Congress?
Posted: 10/23/2009 8:56:27 AM |
Are illegals going to get health care under Obamacare? Yes How will that happen?
Will they be paying into it?
If they can't pay into it, how can they get care?
Are they going to do it illegally? Yes How will that happen?
Will they then be paying into it "illegally?
If they can't pay into it "legally", then they can't pay into it. And if they don't pay into it, they can't get care. | |
|
| Did the President LIE on September 9, 2009 ... in his speech to Congress?
Posted: 10/23/2009 9:06:36 AM |
Are illegals going to get health care under Obamacare? Yes
They get emergency room care now, under 'Bushcare'.
Where were you during the past eight years?
Are they going to do it illegally? Yes
As some do now.
It's the law that they must be treated.
How would you like that to work in the ER?
Guy comes in with chest pains--obviously Mexican-looking (whatever that means)--does he have his insurance card with him? No.
Uh oh.
Deny treatment until he can provide an insurance card?
How does that jive with the Hippocratic Oath?
Baby comes in unconscious--no insurance card.
Nuts.
Sorry, but the dude two posts up says we have to deny treatment.
Your issue isn't with Obama, it's with the law that says people who go to the ER must be treated.
No, the president didn't lie. | |
|
| Did the President LIE on September 9, 2009 ... in his speech to Congress?
Posted: 10/23/2009 10:40:41 AM | ^^^^ding ding ding^^^^ we have a winner!!!!
Thank you for seeing the light in President Obama's lie!
Yes, illegals have access to health care currently.
So, unless there is something done to the current situation, they will have access to healthcare under the HCR.
So, it is my opinion, that the President is being disingenuous to make it appear that the illegal aliens would not have access to the proposed Healthcare. They will have the same access that they currently enjoy.....at our expense.
Oh yeah, nice fear mongering with the baby example...... | |
|
| Did the President LIE on September 9, 2009 ... in his speech to Congress?
Posted: 10/23/2009 10:41:47 AM | This is about the issue of prevention of crime. No president has been blamed for prevention of crime before. Why would you start doing that now? umm, no.....this is about lying.
This is a dishonest post, at best! Your entire post (message # 20) is clear evidence that you aren't a serious poster, just a hack that likes to throw sh.t around but can handle a serious argument.
[Just saying that I need reading comprehension help without responding to the issues that I raised isn't gonna cut it here. In fact, although English is a foreign language for me, I would put my reading comprehension in English against yours on a test anytime, and then we can do it in Spanish (the language of the illegal aliens that you hate so much.) I will put some money down too.]
Let me prove to you that you are dishonest and incapable of handling a discussion seriously. You quoted me in the above paragraph, and then retorted saying that the issue was about lying. Except that you left out the words from your post that I was responding to. I will repost that part here so that everyone can see your cheap trick:
It is my belief now that President Obama knows there is no way to keep illegals from getting health care. By saying that they "will not" but knowing or believing that they will, is at best a half truth (that was you) This is about the issue of prevention of crime. No president has been blamed for prevention of crime before. Why would you start doing that now? (this was me)
That should be very clear now that I was referring to the point that you are accusing the president of lying because he can't prevent "illegals" from getting health care.
Leaving your words out and accusing me of not understanding the issue is just dishonest, pure and simple.
Deal with the issues with intellectual integrity and we may take you for serious debater. As of now you are just a nuissance. Very soon nobody will notice you. | |
|
Home
login 
