| Avoiding the friend zone with someone in my circle - an original question
Posted: 10/26/2009 10:44:39 AM | Hey everybody,
I know the friend zone is something that's been discussed to death on here. I did a search just now and while I found a lot of threads I didn't find any advice on what I specifically want to ask about. This thread is intended to be constructive.
There is a girl in my circle of friends who I fancy a bit. I don't really know her that well, but she seems intelligent, funny, good looking and she likes the same kind of music as me (heavy metal). I have her phone number, but that's just because we went to a gig together, and other guy friends came to that gig with us.
So I'm thinking of asking her out. In my experience the only way to avoid the friend zone with a girl is to establish attraction fairly quickly before they can lump you in that category. I also see the force in an argument I saw on here - you should lay your cards on the table, and if she's not interested, don't keep hanging around like a lovesick puppy. If you remain friends with her you'll only torture yourself and possibly make her feel awkward around you as well; I've been there, done that, and got the t-shirt in every size!
However, it seems to me that it's harder to cut someone off when they're part of your circle of friends and you're going to see them fairly often at parties etc, which is the case with this current girl. What do you suggest I do?
P.S. I'm asking in this forum because I'm interested in responses from both guys and girls. | |
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| Avoiding the friend zone with someone in my circle - an original question
Posted: 10/26/2009 10:51:50 AM | | You better go for it. If you sit back and wait one of your homies in the friend circle will get her first and then she will be totally off limits. Then you will be bitter that you didn't go for it. You are young; take a risk already. Nobody will even remember in a few years anyway. | |
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| Avoiding the friend zone with someone in my circle - an original question
Posted: 10/26/2009 10:56:57 AM | Well for one thing, I can't speak for all women, but I do not put men in the 'friendship' category if I have an attraction to them. I think guys like to use this, like the woman would want them but for this category thing, if they wanted you for more than friends, they wouldn't be sticking you there...if you see what I mean.
As for torturing yourself, that would require you to have been in a real romantic relationship with someone then being put on the friendship list when you wanted to still be the lover, which would require some time spent dating, getting to know each other, falling in love, having a real relationship, etc. Most the time two people go out for a bit, don't mesh and move on, that's not the same thing and really it doesn't cause one any sort of torture to be around someone they dated a bit and didn't really work out with. So I think a whole lot of fantasy and little reality is involved with what you are talking about.
Ask her out, if it doesn't turn into a red hot romance, really, how hard is it to be friendly after. Of course it helps to take your time, date and not be so quick to think it's love. That way your feelings are about the actual facts that went on between the two of you and not some make believe that never even happened, that can't torment you because you lived in the real world.  | |
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| Avoiding the friend zone with someone in my circle - an original question
Posted: 10/26/2009 11:16:15 AM | "Torture yourself" - I suppose that's the caseif you think this chick is the love of your life and she laughs in your face. If its just attraction or a crush, then there shouldn't be any torturing of anybody.
Throw the cards on the table in a non-desperate non-needy but clear way. If she says no, then its not a soul-crushing experience and life goes on. | |
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| Avoiding the friend zone with someone in my circle - an original question
Posted: 10/26/2009 11:26:24 AM | She isn't the love of my life, she's just a girl I know who I like. However I have had bad experiences in the past with girls that I've been attracted to that haven't reciprocated - maybe it's a fault of mine but I'm trying to avoid putting myself in that position again by nipping something in the bud.
The problem I see with taking a risk is that she is iny my circle of friends and if she says no it will be really embarassing for me and she'll feel awkward around me. That's the specific thing I wanted advice about. | |
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| Avoiding the friend zone with someone in my circle - an original question
Posted: 10/26/2009 1:34:26 PM |
So I'm thinking of asking her out. In my experience the only way to avoid the friend zone with a girl is to establish attraction fairly quickly before they can lump you in that category.
This is not exactly accurate. You want to let someone know you have attraction and find out if it's mutual. Establishing or not won't be something you can control. She's either into you or not at this point. You just want to know which it is, and let her know you have interest.
I also see the force in an argument I saw on here - you should lay your cards on the table, and if she's not interested, don't keep hanging around like a lovesick puppy. If you remain friends with her you'll only torture yourself and possibly make her feel awkward around you as well; I've been there, done that, and got the t-shirt in every size!
That's true enough.
However, it seems to me that it's harder to cut someone off when they're part of your circle of friends and you're going to see them fairly often at parties etc, which is the case with this current girl. What do you suggest I do?
You can still be civil and continue to see her in groups as an aquaintance or friend and continue to go about your business. If you're not close friends with her hanging out one on one constantly it should be fine. Just make sure you move on with dating and talk to other women at the same time. It'll blow over. | |
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| Avoiding the friend zone with someone in my circle - an original question
Posted: 10/26/2009 1:34:44 PM | In my high school days, I dated that girl in my circle of friends. It didn't work out, but our friendship went unharmed. One of the guys in the circle was jealous, but eventually got over it. If my timeline is right, I think our final prom dance was together despite going with different people(actually, I was stag and she lost her date). It wasn't awkward one bit - just two good friends being there for each other as always.
Go for it. | |
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| Avoiding the friend zone with someone in my circle - an original question
Posted: 10/26/2009 2:58:54 PM | Why don't you just go about this the 'natural' way? Why are people so against the natural flow of things??
Why not just ask her to hang out one on one? Find a concert or an indie band playing or something. Flirt with her a little more, etc. No need to go out and confess all your feelings all at once... just take the lead and see if she follows. If she's into it, you'll know. If she's not into it, you'll know that too. It will also get your group of friends used to the idea of you too spending more time together - so it will come as less of a shock.
People try to throw labels and definitions on things WAY too early... and yeah... that can totally make things awkward. Don't try to throw that pressure on her (or yourself) and it's all good...
JMO | |
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| Avoiding the friend zone with someone in my circle - an original question
Posted: 10/26/2009 3:51:39 PM | | lol, it's not hard to cut someone off in your inner circle, you just do. then again everybody is not the same I guess. I don't even have a "circle" just a few here and there, cali, new york, tennessee, georgia, anyway ask her out plain and simple, she likes you back you guys live happily evver after, if not well just don't talk to her if you can't stand to be with her after the card laying thing. | |
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| Avoiding the friend zone with someone in my circle - an original question
Posted: 10/26/2009 4:41:04 PM | I'm not saying I'm gonna propose to her or give her a contract to sign lol. As I say I don't really know her that well, I just think she's good looking and I just think she's the kind of girl I'd get on well with. What I mean about establishing attraction early on is not that I should simply tell her how I feel, but that I should create some kind of romantic or flirty rapport at a relatively early stage before I get plonked in the friend zone, which often happens to me because I'm a nice guy and I get on well with girls but I'm not very good at flirting without making myself look like a weirdo.
As for asking her to go to a gig, that's one thing I considered but it's not really what I was concerned about when I wrote this. I just know how weird girls act around you if they know you fancy them and they don't feel the same way, and because I see her a fair bit I didn't think I could really just cut her off if I realised she wasn't interested. I guess it's just not a big deal though.
Thanks for the responses. | |
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| Avoiding the friend zone with someone in my circle - an original question
Posted: 10/26/2009 4:45:41 PM | Also, regarding the natural flow:
I do just try and keep things casual normally, but when I do that they don't even realise I'm interested and it's all "Tim's so sweet/funny/lovely" but it doesn't really progress beyond that.
Anyway I'm gonna look at some threads on flirting tips now! | |
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| Avoiding the friend zone with someone in my circle - an original question
Posted: 10/26/2009 7:10:50 PM | For her to know that you are looking for more than friendship, you'd need to ask her out (or say something specific which I guess you might not want to do at this point). I'd recommend asking her to something, like "would you like to come to this (whatever it is)?". I wouldn't advise saying "are you going to ... (whatever it is you'd like her to go with you to)". There is a subtle difference: one is asking her to accompany you to something, which would certainly make her think 'date' even if it isn't spelled out; the other is more of a casual friend thing and she won't know whether you particularly want her company or are just asking as you would a mate. She will notice the difference.
If you keep it light-hearted and friendly, I don't see why you should lose her friendship unless she's immature. | |
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| Avoiding the friend zone with someone in my circle - an original question
Posted: 10/27/2009 5:32:34 PM | I've been in the same place as you - I'm sure most guys have. My advice to you is to go for it. You just want sex, right? I've found that when it comes to sex - you should always just go for it.
You are only 23 years old. You should try to have sex with every girl you get hard for. No questions, just woo the girl. Find out what she like, what kind of guys she is into, make yourself into the passionate lover SHE desires, and then seduce her.
As for your circle of friend, who cares. Over the next 10 years you'll find that your circle of friends WILL change, probably many times. | |
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| An update
Posted: 11/1/2009 5:43:25 PM | Well jspeter, I assumed you were joking until I looked at your profile. I actually don't just want sex.
As it happens though, I ended up getting together with this girl anyway while we were out for Halloween last night! Turns out she fancied me too!
Cheers for the advice anyway, guys! | |
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| Avoiding the friend zone with someone in my circle - an original question
Posted: 11/1/2009 8:42:06 PM |
However, it seems to me that it's harder to cut someone off when they're part of your circle of friends and you're going to see them fairly often at parties etc, which is the case with this current girl. What do you suggest I do?
I suggest you discover what "your" idea of friend is, and go from there?!
Be open and honest with those in your "friend" circle (male/female), and you will most likely find your place.
If you like this girl to the point of asking her to explore something beyond friendship, let her know. Life is too short to waste...........go for what you feel in your heart?!
Hope this helps,  | |
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| Avoiding the friend zone with someone in my circle - an original question
Posted: 11/11/2009 7:21:03 AM | Timmyboy,
I just had an experience where the girl attempted to Friend Zone me... and I successfully stayed OUT of friend zone.
And I did that by flat out refusing being friends, deleting all her messages and taking her off my favourites. And I followed that up with telling her that if she wants to be friends, then we have to be the type of friends that actually get together... and that I wouldn't guarantee that I wouldn't check out her @ss either. And if doesn't want that, then delete my contact info and never speak to me again.
In doing that, I was establishing that the sexual element is still there and that I'm not going to settle...nor was I going to pretend it didn't exist and that I fully intended on continuing my efforts to seduce her.
But at the same time, I don't think it would have worked if I said "No, I only want to date you". You have to have some flexibility... as it can work as long as you continue to see her one on one in person. And when you see her, don't hide the attraction you feel.
Don't hide the attraction, don't hide the feelings... but also be true to yourself. If she acts in a callous way in regard to how you feel, then cut off contact with her.
Do not let her use your feelings against you to either treat you like a door mat or put you into Friend Zone.
Well that's my working theory anyway.
It's only the first time I succeeded in staying out of Friend Zone AND still had an ongoing thing. So it's not like I've put much refinement into it. | |
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| Avoiding the friend zone with someone in my circle - an original question
Posted: 11/11/2009 3:09:09 PM | I am going to approach this a little bit differently. I think that you should pursue her, and show that you are interested in her for more than friends, but I would not tell her that you like her a lot, and all that jazz. Let her discover that by your actions.
Back when I began to date, I would go out with a girl and then if I fancy them, I would tell them that I liked them a lot. Then some of the mystery disappear and the chemistry they had for me went out the window. So I learned that those things are done with actions and believe it or not, mixed messages. So what you do is you ask her out. You do not imply "hanging out" you express clearly that it will be a date, but also, treated as "let's see what develops." So she goes out with you with the intend to possibly being romantically involved. Then in the date, again, do not tell her that you think she is hot, or find her attractive, or any of that crap. You do that, they have you in the bag, and the interest begins to die. What you do is that you communicate at a more personal level of emotion and by your actions you penetrate her personal space. Then you do the most important thing. You pull back. This is very important. If you are the one saying, touching, giving, giving, giving at one point the girl has not only figured out, but is going to be bored with you. By pulling back you create a challenge. You force her to take control of her own emotions and question herself, "does he like me". The moment a woman asks that question and feels a little challenge, then she begins to work for you. Then is her the one saying, "I really like you," "When I am with you I feel special." If is okay for her to say that. But not for you. Not at those early stages.
Once you pull back, if she responds physically by touching you, or by leaning forward, allow her to do that, then you escalate to the next level and keep maintaining a balance between sexual tension yet making her feel very comfortable. Let me give you an example, if you are working on her personal space, and creating intimacy, you should be able to give her a bite of what you are eating by putting your fork to her mouth and her just taking a bite. Those are simple things that amplify attraction. And that indicate that you are not moving towards the friend direction but to the lovers direction. | |
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