| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 10/27/2009 8:47:31 PM | ballot initiatives in CA.
decriminalized in MA as of last November.
Medi-Pot in NV, RI and elsewhere...
what will this come to mean in terms of the national dialogue? for our tourism and economy?
thoughts | |
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| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 10/27/2009 8:50:12 PM | | I think it's a much smaller deal than all the stoners make it out to be. Most cops won't bust you for a joint or two anyways, and any more wouldn't be legal for "personal use" even under the new laws. I don't think much of anything will change except some idiots will toke up in front of police-stations for a few months after it passes and stuff like that just to show how they "stuck it to the man" and how "badass" they are. Other than that, life as usual. | |
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wudger
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Joined: 12/20/2007
Msg: 3 | |
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| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 10/27/2009 9:40:38 PM | | It won't matter if a state legalizes a certain drug until the federal government legalizes the same thing.... which will NEVER happen. Why? Yes, we have over-criminalized tons of behaviors but to repeal laws makes senators and house reps look soft on crime... which means they risk losing re-election. | |
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| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 10/27/2009 9:46:56 PM |
legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Gonna have to pay for UHC somehow...what better way, than to legalize pot, tax it and then distribute it as an alternative to those nasty, expensive pharmaceuticals?
Anorexic? Here ya go...guaranteed to induce munchies.
That Viagra pill cause a 4 hour erection? Here ya go...you'll be limp before your 'head' hits the pillow.
Have an ADHD child? No worries...two bong hits with their Cheerios in the morning.
LMAO...just realized I covered men, women and children right there ^^^.
~ds~ | |
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| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 10/27/2009 10:18:06 PM |
I wouldn't put that theory to a test.
Neither would I, but I lived across the side-walk from a guy who left his door open/unlocked while he cut up kilo's of the stuff on his kitchen table and weighed it out and divided it up into dime bags. Cops patrolled our complex constantly. He had a good little business going on there.
Cops have a lot more on their mind than a joint or two, however, if they catch you with it, they will use it to get more from you if they can. It is a nice conversation piece for them to see if you know things. So many times in CJ107 we were told of how a joint led to a burglary ring led to cleaning up a neighborhood, just because someone left it smoking in the ash-tray during a traffic stop.
The worst I ever heard was my friend being evicted for smoking pot with one of the local university teachers here in town. She went to court over it I think, but it never was a big deal beyond her eviction. Teacher still teaches, girl still attended (until she moved). She got busted b/c a noise complaint, their music was too loud. | |
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| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 10/28/2009 11:04:37 AM | It certainly would be a boon to the economics, wouldn't it?
I think I'll apply for my growers license and have it ready.
yes...you can get one from the government here. With certain restrictions, etc. | |
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wudger
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Joined: 12/20/2007
Msg: 9 | |
| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 10/28/2009 12:39:51 PM |
So many times in CJ107 we were told of how a joint led to a burglary ring led to cleaning up a neighborhood, just because someone left it smoking in the ash-tray during a traffic stop.
did CH107 ever tell you about all the poor **stards who went to jail for a joint? or lost their jobs? or their kids? who can't pass a background check now?
try that in rural america. your ass is in jail for days, bail, trial, attorneys fees. or just on a bad day in some cops life. happens every day.
I hope nobody in here is going to act on that advice. | |
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| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 10/28/2009 1:18:03 PM | As for going to jail for a joint or two, probably depends on where you're at ultimately. Regarding nationally decriminalizing it, personally I'm in favor of that (because then they could also distribute and /or at least tax the heck out of it .....we need the $$ basically so, yes, we must at times become a drug dealer , ok??  ). But seriously though, I don't think it's going to happen on a national basis, no. Not in the next 20, 25 yrs. State-by-state perhaps. Here and there. We'll see what ends up happening in CA. But I don't see complete legalization in this country in the near-future. Don't forget, not only is there the whole "soft on crime /soft on drugs" fear on the part of politicians, there's also the fact that just as selling and taxing the drug could become quite an industry, fighting it is already quite an industry (people are employed by police depts, by the DEA, by the "prison-industrial complex"....even police dogs trained to sniff it out could be put out of work ultimately...and with the unemployment rate already this high....).
Somebody said this to me about the military the other day too, and I was thinking, Yeah I guess, actually that makes sense. I was talking with someone about over-bloated defense spending, two ongoing wars / occupation-type situations, etc , and he said (and I paraphrase), "Well you know at the end of the day it just puts a lot of people to work; if they were suddenly all back here and out of the army now, what would we really do with all of them anyway??"... Same thing with those whose employment consists of trying (albeit ultimately fruitlessly) to stamp out pot growing, or selling and using. | |
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| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 10/28/2009 1:39:46 PM | yna6,
if it were legalized, then that would set a huge precedent to be used in legalising cocaine/ heroin/designer drugs/...
just imagine, hopping a plane and the captain comes on the intercom: "Good evening and thankyou for flying with us. The crew and I are flying at 21,000 feet, and will start to taxi down the tarmac and wait for the buzz to take effect.
We'll do our job in getting you in the air, and then you can pull out a fat one and join us."
Most comforting isn't it?!
And if you make any provision to exclude anyone, then, they have a legal right to take you to court because you are trampling their legal right to use the drug at anytime, working or not! And then they will accuse you of stepping on their civil liberties.
And then let's talk about surgeons toking before an op to mellow out from the stress of surgery that is going to begin when you get into the O.R.
or your kid's bus driver taking speed/ meth/....
or a service member taking a rifle after toking, then shooting it in a crowd for kicks
or the Police not coming to your house to catch a rapist in the act, cause that would harsh their mellow!
Still think it's a good idea?
would it truly be a boon to the economy? or just a Pandora's Box !
Dale | |
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| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 10/28/2009 1:48:59 PM | | Msg 11, actually no, because certainly not all pot legalization advocates (myself included) would ever favor the legalization of "harder" or synthetic drugs (coke, heroin, meth, etc.). I don't think very many people are rallying behind that banner. It's pot legalization, and only pot, that is usually the issue. And we're having a hard enough time with that. The harder drugs could literally never (and arguably should not ever) be legalized. Certainly driving (much less flying) under the influence would remain just as illegal as it is now. And Dasein yes, I agree, the slippery slope arguments are inherently weak. It's the same with the gay marriage issue. Bring it up, and next thing you know someone says, Yes but then someone will marry their sheep.... Well, no not really, see no one's talking about making interspecial marriages legal...... | |
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| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 10/28/2009 1:53:52 PM |
This is what sucks about living in Texas. We never get any of the 'cool' laws. If UHC goes with a state by state option, we won't get that either.
We also don't get any of the crap laws either, like, we can have 30 round magazines, flash-hiders, whatever. SBS, SBR, Silencers, etc.
We have the castle doctrine.
We have plenty of good laws that support freedom of the people and not totalitarian control by the government.
*I saw "We" as I used to live in TX and LA is much the same. | |
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| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 10/28/2009 1:54:45 PM |
did CH107 ever tell you about all the poor **stards who went to jail for a joint? or lost their jobs? or their kids? who can't pass a background check now?
Nope, cop let the guy go after he gave him the info. Now I am not saying "smoke pot, noone will care", I am just saying they don't go looking for it normally. Use common sense of course. | |
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wudger
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Joined: 12/20/2007
Msg: 16 | |
| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 10/28/2009 2:04:39 PM |
if it were legalized, then that would set a huge precedent to be used in legalising cocaine/ heroin/designer drugs/...
right but tobacco, which kills millions, and booze, which is involved in an incredible number of violent crimes should definitely be legal.
and while you're worrying about the airline pilots getting high, you might consider that most of them drink. but hey whats a few beers before taxing that 747 down the runway. | |
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| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 10/28/2009 4:10:22 PM |
I think it's a much smaller deal than all the stoners make it out to be. Most cops won't bust you for a joint or two anyways, and any more wouldn't be legal for "personal use" even under the new laws. I don't think much of anything will change except some idiots will toke up in front of police-stations for a few months after it passes and stuff like that just to show how they "stuck it to the man" and how "badass" they are. Other than that, life as usual.
It sounds like you have no clue what you are talking about. | |
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| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 10/28/2009 4:23:01 PM | Hummmmmmmm
Wet bars On the School Bus, Operating Room.****it..... slippery Slope.
Ha
My City is getting ready to put a SALES TAX on the Med Dispensers ..........
$$$$$$$$$$
We need the bucks laying off 15 Cops and 10 Firefighters.........
This will be the start .... The only real problem is Location. There is no zoning.
The DEA is now off the Doctors writing the Scrip..........
. | |
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| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 10/28/2009 4:35:50 PM | Dale...have to disagree. We already have laws and regulations dealing with booze, and prescription drug use on the job. Even cigarette smoking. So, I can't see where pot wouldn't fit in.
It may well open the doors to harder drug use....I personally believe that pot IS a gateway drug. Simply becasue it does seem to be. Dang near every stoner who uses coke or some such started with pot, and figured "Maybe I'll get higher!" or "Pot didn't kill me, why should this?" Also, since they already have the mindset that it isn't harming anyone else (basically a victimless crime) then they should feel entitled to do it. Their body, their choice.
I'd like to see the gov't take them to task for that. Fine...their body...doesn't mean the taxpayer has to foot the bill for rehab or health issues directly caused by their use. But...a "civilized society" seems to be based on getting these people back into "normal functional society", then cutting them loose. Some places have sanctioned state run "shooting galleries" and needle exchange programs. People point to Amsterdam where drugs are freely sold, and state foolish things like "It works there...they consider drug use a health issue not a crime!" True, they do...but who pays? The taxpayer. Seems most "workers" there pay a LOT more in taxes than we ever have and a lot of it goes to the minority that can't even straighten themselves out.
I guess when a druggie wants their fix it doesn't matter where the money comes from either. Prostitution, muggings, break and enters, home invasions....hard drug use leads to more serious crimes. Simple facts. Some places even forbid pawn shops from opening up simply because of the criminal element they attract.
"Guilt through association"....perhaps.....but also, perhaps, it is time people took more responsibility into their own hands for their behaviour, and were held to task for it too! | |
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wudger
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Joined: 12/20/2007
Msg: 20 | |
| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 10/28/2009 4:53:19 PM |
Dang near every stoner who uses coke or some such started with pot
most "stoners" start with tobacco and booze. then they move on to marijuana. how come they get left out of your bad rap.
and the truth is the taxpayer pays far more to incarcerate hard core users than they do to rehab them.
between all the money that would be saved by taking drug offenders out prisons (and its a lot of money) we'd save a ton of dough in police expenditures etc. and if drugs were legal junkies wouldn't steal, because as you point out, they steal to support their habit.
drugs are bad for you. ALL drugs. and cigarettes and booze are right at the top of the list for drugs that are bad for you. the AMA in testimony before congress called tobacco the most addictive substance we know of. a real alcohol habit can kill you when you stop. nobody ever died of a heroin withdrawal.
until we stop kidding ourselves about the reality of drugs we'll continue to wallow in the horrendous problems caused by criminalizing something that should not be a crime. | |
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| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 10/28/2009 5:42:18 PM |
what will this come to mean in terms of the national dialogue?
That it will be milked for as much political capital as possible? Until one side or the other shows a preponderance of support guaranteeing future job security to politician(s)?
for our tourism and economy?
That airlines will sell a ton of bags of peanuts?
That drug sniffing dogs will have to be retrained creating hundreds of dog training jobs?
That hemp may be grown legally in the U.S., possibly becoming our biggest cash crop export helping to balance the trade deficit possibly making us import more food?
Tariffs forcing other countries to buy our pot, like the Japanese and our rice?
Subsidized "farmers" growing pot in their back yard or their mom's basement?
More attractions like "Worlds biggest ball of twine," and, "Worlds biggest ball of twine...on weed?"
Bigger government to handle the increase in laws saying where and when pot use is not okay?
Electronic pot breathalyzer test manufacturers increase hiring and capacity?
A whole new Betty Crocker "special kief blend" section at the Piggly Wiggly?
All new insurance questions "do you use tobacco? Do you use marijuana?"
States competing for tourist dollars by allowing hotels to replace pillow mints with pillow joints? Or subsidizing local blends?
Possibly the opposite where some states (maybe Utah) go all smoke free?
Tons of people standing around 20 feet to the entrance of bars puffing away causing contact high's to the skateboard kids?
Increased rehab and retraining centers? | |
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| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 10/28/2009 5:45:43 PM | wudger,
Tobacco does kill, I agree!
there are laws for both booze, and tobacco to curb their use, yet teens still start smoking and drinking then get behind the wheel of a car, 4 wheeler, boats, ....
cops/authorities have the dreadful job of telling a family that their mother/father/ siblings/ was in an "accident" and they are dead or maybe if their "lucky", that they are in the emergency room/O.R. !
The laws are there, people just choose to ignore them, or think "nuthin' " will happen to me!!! but statistics do not lie.
just imagine the havok legalising MJ would just absolutely have in the home/office/job /truckin' /.....
or would you go the route of putting restrictions on who could use them, which just makes the blackmarkets expand.
or maybe you would just use a "li'l" at home. then when you have kids, there will be a dramatic increase of birth defects/mental disorders/physiologic atrophy just cause you wanted to light one up " a few times" .
you talk of all the violent crimes that are fueled by booze. ok then when a person is jonesin' for the next high, they would just go and get some from the legal pusher right?
but if they spent all there money already guess what that person would most likely do;
go to work to earn the money OR mugg someone in the street for the money for the next high. then when they're high, commit a more violent crime, like rape, just for the heck of it.
we do have a major problem with booze. but would you add infinitely more problems by legalising narcotics?
Or maybe make a law to give druggies/boozers gov't funds to pay for the drug, cause it's legal to use, and you don't want them commiting crimes to get the money. It just adds more and more crimes cause they are toking even more, and run through the funds uncle sam gave them for more drugs...
OH, but we could raise the tax on the drugs, and then give them more money so they slow down on their use... been there done that!
let alone the health/ medical maladies that are going to increase because of the drugs effecting the users health....
or maybe you think UHC will take care of them, like they will the obese/smokers/ elderly/ newborn fetus' that they euthanise to keep costs down by not treating them!
Do you really think it's such a hot idea now?
Dale | |
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| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 10/28/2009 5:57:54 PM | I'd have to pu the blame also on booze being the more guilty drug to lead to heroin or others.Depending on who you choose to get your drugs from most small dealers will basically deal only in pot, heroin people are a diferent breed and the two are not exactly bed buddies.
To remove pot from that "possible" mutli - drug dealer would make it so much easier for the dea to do it's job and they may actually accomplish something closer to their origainal mandate. In fact when prohibition of alchohol ended there was no need for the force until politics and a certain politician saw MJ as a good platform for enhancing his personal agenda.
It's the misinformation from those who have never actually associated with those that do that cause problems with legalization.
An analogy from my bartending days fits this problem, you may have been to a bar and think you know all the ins and outs about what goes on there but you would be way off.
In my experience I have yet to meet anyone who stole to buy pot, an addiction to heroin yes, booze yes, pharm drugs yes.
I can also state that I know way more people who have missed a day or two of work due to an alchohol hangover then who pass on a day of work because they puffed the night before. Further more if they did the ride program first thing in the morning there would quite a few drivers walking the rest of the way to work.
I am saddened that this will still going on long after I have departed from this world mainly due to a lack of critical thinking and politics.
Getting back to OP, Tourism has only been enhanced in amsterdam.
Legal prostitution and gambling never seemed to hurt vegas either. | |
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| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 10/28/2009 10:09:09 PM |
and while you're worrying about the airline pilots getting high, you might consider that most of them drink. but hey whats a few beers before taxing that 747 down the runway.
Of course this overlooks the concept of [as usual]the simple guideline of "24 hour....throttle to bottle"
Of course the news now is about playing with the computer instead of flying but...... | |
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| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 10/28/2009 10:58:04 PM | This is what sucks about living in Texas. We never get any of the 'cool' laws. If UHC goes with a state by state option, we won't get that either.
Drove through your fair state once... Back in '71... From Fort Ord, on the California coast to Fort Sill, OK...
Almost scared the crap outta me... Howling winds and tumbleweeds bigger than my Volkswagen...
If it wasn't for the good weed I brought along, and the few interesting folks I met along the way; I might've been buried somewhere in the wastes of the "Lone Star State" without a marker or a clue...
Or wearing a number in one of it's exemplary "Correctional Institutions"...
We're trying to sell freedom to foreigners...
Why do you suppose they're laughing?... | |
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wudger
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Joined: 12/20/2007
Msg: 26 | |
| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 10/28/2009 11:30:21 PM |
Do you really think it's such a hot idea now?
well, yeah, of course, because its the only intelligent thing to do, but from all that I can see how we came by current set of laws. | |
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| legalized marijuana...a possible American reality?
Posted: 10/29/2009 8:16:13 AM | Wudger...
Why did I leave out booze and cigs? Cause they ARE legal. Don't you know the difference between what IS legal now and what is NOT?
Since when are hard core drug users incarcerated? Didn't know they were. Unless they were committing crimes to get their drug of choice.
Why wouldn't druggies steal to support their habit, legal or not? (People steal to get booze and cigs...which are legal....)The price is still there! Hello....they'd STILL have to pay for it. Think for a second the gov't would bring the price down? Good lord...where would be the tax advantage to that?
Nobody ever died of heroin withdrawal? Huh? I've never heard of a case where anyone died that quit smoking. Or quit drinking. There are ways to do both that are safer than "cold turkey". Get with it.How about an overdose? How about getting killed while stoned?
Sorry Wudger....you almost sound as if you are trying to justify drug use, saying "It's only as bad as...what's out there now!" Unfortunately, most people KNOW it is not. It is far worse. Not to mention the fact that as far as illegal substance abuse is concerned, it affects more and more people yearly!
Legalizing pot could lead to legalizing other things.
Perhaps the idea of treating it as a health problem could be used as a model for legalization purposes. Perhaps that is buried in the agenda of the healthcare reforms in the US right now. Anyone know anything about that?
I'm just not sure I'd want to be trusting the person working next to me if they are stoned. Doesn't matter what job I'm on. As is...if they were drinking, I wouldn't trust them, and can have them removed form the job in order to make the workplace safer.
We'd need rules in place about drug use on the job. Having seen it for myself, I know what can happen when some coke-head is running a machine and it fouls up. | |
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