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| The New Jewish Lobby
Posted: 10/28/2009 8:29:03 AM | http://www.sphere.com/2009/10/27/new-jewish-lobby-takes-different-tack-in-dc/
Some of us have discussed on here before the "Jewish Lobby" , mainly it seems we were discussing the Right-leaning AIPAC, and its influence on Washington, DC, and other issues such as whether or not it influenced at all the Iraq invasion, etc. Here is a new Jewish lobby group emerging, which I personally would find far more worthy of support than AIPAC. I think this is good to see, and in a sense it confirms the fact that one can be in favor of Israel's continued existence, and yet still question or even seriously criticize its policies and actions without being thought of as a hater of Jews. Do you think it's important for a new Jewish lobby such as this to exist as an "alternative" to AIPAC? Or do you think America should not concern itself much anymore with Israel at all, regardless of which lobby groups function in Washington?
from the article,
"WASHINGTON (Oct. 27) -- National Security Adviser James Jones gladdened the hearts of this city's newest would-be power lobbying group by saying that "the time has come to relaunch negotiations without preconditions" to settle the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. "Nothing is more important" for the United States, he told the group J Street, than to solve the conundrum in the Middle East.
"This is the epicenter and where we should focus our efforts," Jones said as he announced that special envoy George Mitchell will leave this week for another round of talks in the region.
That was just what the new liberal Jewish lobby wanted to hear at its first conference. And while Israel's ambassador didn't show up, Jones told the group, "You can be sure this administration will be represented at all future" gatherings.
That was essentially a vow to give equal time to a group conceived as an alternative to the powerful and right-leaning American Israel Public Affairs Committee, which has long held great sway with high-ranking policymakers. AIPAC has a $130 million endowment and nearly 300 staffers. J Street is tiny in comparison and only 18 months old, but its inaugural gathering attracted 1,500 people, half again as many as expected. The overflow crowd jammed meeting rooms at a downtown hotel and forced organizers to repeat a standing-room-only session after dozens were turned away.
The conference marked "the birth of a movement," said Jeremy Ben-Ami, J Street's founder and executive director. "This is the coming-out party for the pro-Israel, pro-peace community, [which] stands for the proposition that there is more than one way in this country to be pro-Israel."
The group's founding formalized a longtime struggle within the Jewish community for influence over U.S. policy in the Middle East. On one side are mainstream groups like AIPAC that tilt right and have welcomed support from Christian conservatives and hard-line Republicans. On the other are what J Street calls the "silent majority" of American Jews -- Democrats who voted overwhelmingly for Barack Obama last November and who support a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
J Street "fills a vacuum" in the American Israel advocacy community, said Meir Sheetrit, one of several opposition members of Israel's Knesset who attended the conference. He said AIPAC's no-questions-asked support for the current right-leaning government of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has turned off younger Jews who are concerned not only about Israel but also about the rights of the Palestinians.
Laura Kaplan, 21, a Tufts University senior from Medford, Mass., said she joined J Street because AIPAC doesn't represent her views. "They support Israel no matter what," she said. "I've been to Israel and seen what's happening on the ground, and [there's] a cognitive dissonance from Jewish values that I've been taught all my life."
The conference also attracted older Jewish anti-war activists who have been uneasy with Israeli policy since the 1982 invasion of Lebanon, which many view as Israel's Vietnam.
The group's anti-war bent was clear Monday when several people booed Rabbi Eric Yoffie, head of the Union for Reform Judaism, when he criticized a recent United Nations report that accused the Israeli military of war crimes during its military campaign in Gaza last winter. During a strategy session of 250 college students, leaders decided to drop the "pro-Israel" part of J Street's slogan, saying it could hurt recruiting on campuses, where sympathy for Palestinians runs high.
Ben-Ami, a veteran of the Clinton White House whose grandparents founded Tel Aviv and whose father fought in the militant Zionist Irgun, "managed to create a space where this voice can be expressed," said Ron Kampeas, a correspondent with the Jewish Telegraphic Agency. A longtime observer of Jewish communal politics, Kampeas said the Obama White House sees J Street members as its "troops" to help make its case. "The Obama administration more than acknowledges the reality of AIPAC. It works with AIPAC," he said. "But it sees J Street as a way of changing the dialogue, of pushing forward on an accelerated path back to negotiations" between Israel and the Palestinians.
J Street's approach has provoked controversy. Israel's ambassador to the United States, Michael Oren, rejected an invitation to speak. Oren said the group's positions -- which include calling Israel's Gaza incursion a "disproportionate" response to Hamas' rocket attacks and opposing sanctions as a first step to curb Iran's nuclear program -- would "impair Israel's interests." The embassy sent two low-level "observers" instead.
Oren's boycott is in keeping with opinion in Israel. An August poll for the Jerusalem Post showed a mere 4 percent of Israelis consider Obama's policies to be pro-Israel, and 51 percent said his administration favored the Palestinians. Many Israelis are suspicious of Obama, who during his short tenure has given a historic speech to the Muslim world in Cairo and visited Turkey but skipped a trip to Jerusalem.
Jon Alterman, director of the Middle East program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, offered advice to Obama during a J Street panel: "You need to go to Israel. Israelis feel, with some justification, that you've spoken to everybody else except them."
Although the White House sent Jones, at least 10 members of Congress backed out amid accusations by conservative bloggers that the conference was little more than an anti-Israel bash session that included Muslim and Palestinian participants. About 150 other lawmakers were expected at a gala dinner tonight to close the conference.
"We shouldn't shy away from controversy," said Rep. Charles Boustany of Louisiana, the grandson of Lebanese immigrants and the only Republican to attend.
Rep. Bob Filner, a California Democrat, said he once lost $250,000 in campaign contributions after voting against a bill supported by AIPAC and knows colleagues who vote the lobby's hawkish way for fear it will use its clout to defeat them at the polls. "The pressure is very intense so people go the easy way, the path of least resistance," said Filner, who is Jewish. "J Street is meant to open another path" of support for Israel.
Sue Swartz, 54, a Bloomington, Ind., writer, hopes J Street also will change attitudes within the Jewish community. "We are very attached to our narrative that our side only wants peace, our side has nothing to blame for. That can't be true about anything in life," she said. "So this is a place where you can hold a morally complex perspective of both loving Israel and being willing to say the status quo is not acceptable." | |
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| The New Jewish Lobby
Posted: 10/28/2009 11:23:30 AM | I pretty much despise lobbies of any kind but hopefully this new group will be able to make a difference. I've been saying it in here for a long time that there are all kinds of Jews who are very opposed to Israeli policies, their tactics and disgusted with the Zionist regime that AIPAC is constantly shoving down our throats.
I hope OBAMA will take this group seriously and work very closely with them. We need to give them a chance. | |
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| The New Jewish Lobby
Posted: 10/28/2009 1:05:56 PM | | ^^ I agree. I'd support J Street, they sound very rational and reasonable to me, ready to look not only at Arab wrongdoing but at Israeli Jewish wrongdoing as well. That having been said I would not , however, support the likes of AIPAC. AIPAC seems to me far too black and white; no shades of gray. With them, it seems more like almost regardless of what happens, Israel is right and the Arabs are wrong. | |
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| The New Jewish Lobby
Posted: 10/28/2009 2:14:39 PM | ^^^^^^^^^^^^
seems to me that to some, regardless of what happens the Arabs are right and Israel is always wrong. | |
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| The New Jewish Lobby
Posted: 10/28/2009 2:34:41 PM | | who's got the oil? American policy is a balancing act. | |
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| The New Jewish Lobby
Posted: 10/28/2009 4:31:44 PM | She's got a point. But it's not a view you see often in North America - the "always blame Israel" view.
You're far more likely to see the view that Israel is always right no matter what they do. And given that this view is expressed far more often here, it's the one that should be challenged. Canada is pretty inocuous, but Canada's policies need to be scrutinized as well. No nation should get a free ride. | |
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| The New Jewish Lobby
Posted: 10/28/2009 5:24:45 PM |
You're far more likely to see the view that Israel is always right no matter what they do. And given that this view is expressed far more often here, it's the one that should be challenged. Canada is pretty inocuous, but Canada's policies need to be scrutinized as well. No nation should get a free ride.
It amazes me that any lobby group can influence another country's foreign policy so dramatically.
No country in the world, including mine, should get a free pass, we need open and honest dialogue on issues. What I do hate is the use of labels and name-calling to silence genuine debate. | |
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| The New Jewish Lobby
Posted: 10/28/2009 8:02:10 PM | She's got a point. But it's not a view you see often in North America - the "always blame Israel" view.
You're far more likely to see the view that Israel is always right no matter what they do. And given that this view is expressed far more often here, it's the one that should be challenged. Canada is pretty inocuous, but Canada's policies need to be scrutinized as well. No nation should get a free ride.
I agree with those sentiments completely. In some circles it is practically de rigueur to consider Israel to be 100% in the wrong no matter what. Personally I don't agree with that kneejerk kind of viewpoint, that something is either absolutely here or absolutely there with no in between. As I had said in another post above, nothing is black-and-white in the Middle East it seems to me. There are always shades of gray. It's never as clear-cut as either the Palestinian apologist OR the Israeli (or perhaps American) conservative (or "neo"-conservative) would have people think.
The American (neo-)conservative often makes the error of laying the blame mostly at the doorstep of Islam, particularly militant Islam. But IMO that overlooks the fact that this situation was (or is) at heart ~ for the Palestinians ~ essentially a nationalist, irredentist, anti-colonial, geo-political struggle that has today been largely cloaked in the veil of religion (militant Islam). Militant Islam (amongst the Palestinians at least) is just a concomitant of this essential irredentist anti-colonialist struggle, NOT vice-versa (IMO). It serves as a banner to rally behind, the same way that in the 60's and 70's it was just as likely to be socialism for example. Today socialism and pan-Arabism are mostly gone, and what remains is the one thing that has been constant in the region : religion.
Now that having been said, there were very real acts of brutal terrorism being committed there by Palestinians (walking into pizza parlors and stores and Passover seders and blowing yourself up , deliberately targeting civilians, is nothing less than the worst kind of terrorism and I can't ever explain it away regardless of what else has occurred previously). The wall ("security fence"), and other security measures, seem indeed to have stopped this. However, the wall has also further divided some Palestinian land, has not run solely along the "Green Line" (as President Carter demonstrates in his book), and has forced people to have to climb through breaks in it just to work, or buy supplies, or even visit family members. It no doubt causes real (further) hardship and humiliation for some of the Palestinian Arabs, most of whom of course were not directly guilty of any terrorist activity.
Who amongst us would live with checkpoints , manned for example by some young first-generation son of immigrants from a foreign land (eastern Europe or Russia in many cases in Israel). When your own people have been there now for hundreds of years (or more) and in fact already lost land in '48 or '67. Americans wouldn't stand for that for very long. And yet many of the Palestinian Arabs are subjected to it daily (for that matter so are many of the Iraqi Arabs under the US presence there...only the situation is different; the American soldiers are not claiming the land is Biblically theirs and so on ~ eventually, they will mostly leave...).
While at the same time we have to reflect that a lot of these hardships visited upon the Palestinians by the wall for instance, essentially they brought upon themselves (or other members of their same ethnicity or religion helped bring it upon them at least). So, again, as the US envoy said in the article cited above, "conundrum". But nonetheless, having a mostly reactionary Right-wing lobby as the only game in town (as AIPAC has apparently been all this time) constantly flexing its political muscle in DC, certainly does nothing to move the debate in anything resembling a remotely more compromising direction.
It also becomes very easy for people who really don't know any Jews, for example, to just assume that all Jews (and their supporters) are in general agreement with AIPAC, and the Israeli (and American) Right. A group like J Street gives people a chance to see that there are many Jews (modern American secular Jews especially) who are not of the same frame of mind as AIPAC'ers at all. So IMO this could serve to possibly decrease or defuse anti-Semitism as well. | |
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| The New Jewish Lobby
Posted: 10/29/2009 2:16:15 PM |
seems to me that to some, regardless of what happens the Arabs are right and Israel is always wrong.
Not ALWAYS... just USUALLY...
With any luck that will start to change now that AIPAC has some competition from the OTHER Israeli viewpoint. | |
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| The New Jewish Lobby
Posted: 10/29/2009 3:17:40 PM | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"Not ALWAYS... just USUALLY..."
that's one poster's opinion, and those that share it. Then there's mine, and those who share it. People will continue to assess and debate the situation, as they should, without bias, instead of calling one side "evil" as his been declared in many a statement.
There already are, in existence, groups of Israelis and Palestinians who have been working together for peace, who haven't resorted to the name-calling that has been written/discussed/read. THOSE groups work toward peace...not "spectators" on boards who resort to one-sided propaganda. And if this new organization can work toward that as well while keeping the Jewish state safe, more power to em. | |
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| The New Jewish Lobby
Posted: 10/29/2009 4:10:15 PM | KuddleKitty has said everything EXACTLY as I would say it.
For me:
I cannot remember a single time in the last 35 years when I have seen/heard the American media say one positive thing about Israel. All they do is paint Israel in a bad, evil light and completely ignore the dirty tactics of Palestinians. If Israel was what they portray, they would have wiped Palestine off the map completely many many years ago, they had the power. Because of the media in this country, many Americans have a very bad view of Israel because they do not have a clue what is going on except for listening to the news.
That being said, I too want peace and think it is very possible if the world will stop letting Palestine play the political games they have for years to prevent it. I am not against Palestinians. I actually have many that are friends and just like anything, it is not all of the people, right or wrong. The rest of the Arab world has played a major part in this also and for many years used Palestine as a pawn. Now Palestinians have grown into thier own and I hope will see the futility of being so damned stubborn. I am sure they will never expect from the other Arab nations what they should as their part in solving the situation by land concessions and honest up-front support. It is the other Arab nations that created this problem, after all. If you do not know or understand that, you are going to have to find out for yourself, it is too much for me to give a history lesson here.
The whole entire thing is so assinine it is beyond belief. While we are at it (the world) why are we not recreating a new Armenian Nation?????? Or the many others that no longer exist. Beause their wasn't a bunch of other brother nations making them center focus on a world stage and purposely creating an unsolvable problem, dragging it on for decades and beyond. That is why. This will never be over. It isn't orchestrated to be.
SS | |
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| The New Jewish Lobby
Posted: 11/2/2009 12:00:53 PM | | there is no wrong doing by isreal, only arab crimes, isreal only defends herself, this post is anti semetic | |
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| The New Jewish Lobby
Posted: 11/2/2009 12:23:10 PM |
this post is anti semetic
Didn't think it would take long. What a load of crap!
there is no wrong doing by isreal, only arab crimes,
There are crimes on both sides, nobody gets a free pass, and you can't shut down reasoned debate by name-calling. | |
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| The New Jewish Lobby
Posted: 11/2/2009 3:11:45 PM | there is no wrong doing by isreal, only arab crimes, isreal only defends herself, this post is anti semetic
I dont believe this post is anti-semetic.
And Id have to respectfully disagree on that point.
They do not just "defend"
Sometimes they're their own worst enemy
Some of my dearest friends are Jewish... Rabbi included.
And there's many admirable qualities about both the people and their religion.
It is... and can be truly beautiful. They've taught me many wonderful things about their beliefs...and many of them I agree with... even as a non-practising Catholic
It also has many negative aspects... just like any other religion and people.
I was privvy to many Zionist conferences because of a position I was in... and hmm... although Ive discussed privately with them... and choose not to speak negatively of what I witnessed publically... I am not impressed
That doesnt make me anti-semetic either.
It means I dont agree with what Ive seen and its not because they were "Jewish" | |
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| The New Jewish Lobby
Posted: 11/2/2009 9:13:56 PM | | Criticizing Israel is not anti-Semetic, it is not criticizing Jews or Hebrews, it is criticizing a government. | |
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| The New Jewish Lobby
Posted: 11/3/2009 7:52:22 AM | | If they have a Lobby, it's not all that good... I cant see where New Jersy is getting anything more special than any other state... | |
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| The New Jewish Lobby
Posted: 11/3/2009 8:09:22 AM |
there is no wrong doing by isreal, only arab crimes, isreal only defends herself, this post is anti semetic
I believe he was being facetious.
We know it's a two way street and neither side is completely above reproach in the conflict.
All I do know is that there are many in Israel that want to see a lasting peace while still concerned about their safety. They hear about negotiations for ME peace, but still hear of new settlements being developed outiside the pre-67 boundaries and doubt their own nation's sincerity in reaching that desired peace. Most Orthodox Jews vehemently demand a pull back to the pre-1967 boundaries themselves claiming Zionism.
But on the other side, the demands and efforts toward no Israel at all are also counterproductive. Rocket launchings and suicide bombs only hurt and not help the chance for a functioning and sovreign state of Palestine if Israel can be convinced to make concessions allowing for it. | |
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| The New Jewish Lobby
Posted: 11/3/2009 10:48:04 AM | ^^ All true, the only thing is there are actually a lot of Orthodox Jews, if not perhaps most, who IMO are quite Zionist really, and not only Zionist but some of them are even expansionist-Zionist ("Greater Israel"). Basically, these latter types are oftentimes flat-out racists or .... if "racist" is not really the proper term then at least let's say "extreme Jewish ethnocentrists" who believe that Jews are actually "superior" to Arabs somehow, inherently (if not superior to everyone else as well), and that the land is simply meant for Jews and Jews alone, with no compromise for the Arabs or anyone else. Like the (since deceased...) Meir Kahane for instance.
But one of the larger groups or subgroups of ultra-Orthodox / Hasidim, here in the US (and I'm sure in Israel also) the Chabad-Lubavitch, they are what I would consider very Zionist. The only Orthodox or "ultra-Orthodox" I've heard of that are actually anti-Zionist or .... let's say very radically "leftish" on this issue as it turns out....are the ones called Neturei Karta. They don't even believe Israel as a modern democratic nation-state has any right to exist at all, and they adamantly declare (at pro-Palestinian rallies and such) that "Zionism does not equate with Judaism" and they carry the Palestinian flag and all that kind of thing. | |
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| The New Jewish Lobby
Posted: 11/3/2009 10:53:59 AM |
are the ones called Neturei Karta. They don't even believe Israel as a modern democratic nation-state has any right to exist at all, and they adamantly declare (at pro-Palestinian rallies and such) that "Zionism does not equate with Judaism"
Those apparently are the guys I read about and the articles seemed to steer one toward thinking that most Orthodox Jews believed this way.
Thanks as always Dino for fleshing it all out with more comprehensive information! | |
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| The New Jewish Lobby
Posted: 11/3/2009 11:53:45 AM | | fact 45% of all arabs, i dont use the term palestinian because theres no such thing, they are just arabs living in isreal, are criminals they go to jail at one point or another.... they vote for a known terrorist govmt,that not only wants to wipe out isreal, but also shows hostility to all free and democratic states this thread is anti semetic and should be shut down | |
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| The New Jewish Lobby
Posted: 11/3/2009 12:27:21 PM |
this thread is anti semetic
^^ When there's nothing to contribute to reasoned debate, cover your ears, do not read all the posts in the thread, and chant this mantra long enough and it will make it so... (also note: SemItic, not SemEtic, FYI). | |
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| The New Jewish Lobby
Posted: 11/3/2009 1:05:41 PM | | what I think interesting is that the same posters continually feel a need to post threads on Israel and Jewish people, analyze, dissect and give their "expert" opinions. Usually to the negative. As said, it's the same posters most of the time. The OP even managed to capsulize past threads that were closed, perhaps to subliminally reinstate some previous opinions expressed on those closed threads. As someone pointed out on another thread...being objective or having an opinion is one thing...being obsessed is another. That's where one crosses the line between objective interest or concern for a situation...and bias or perceived anti-semitism. | |
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| The New Jewish Lobby
Posted: 11/3/2009 1:46:39 PM |
there is no wrong doing by isreal, only arab crimes, isreal only defends herself, this post is anti semetic
Both Israel and the Arabs,palestinians have committed crimes and atrocities toward each other.So that comment is asinine.Anti Semitic I haven't seen anything anti semitic.You want to see anti semitic go to stormfront or some other disgusting lunatic site. | |
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| The New Jewish Lobby
Posted: 11/3/2009 1:55:20 PM |
this thread is anti semetic and should be shut down
And yet this 'anti-semetic' has allowed you to post your rant?
You cannot shut down debate by name-calling. | |
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| The New Jewish Lobby
Posted: 11/3/2009 2:34:03 PM |
there is no wrong doing by isreal, only arab crimes, isreal only defends herself, this post is anti semetic
according to Amnesty Internation:
Israel uses more than 80 per cent of the water source in Israel and only allows Palestinian access to 20 percent
some 180,000-200,000 Palestinians living in rural communities have no access to running water and the Israeli army often prevents them from even collecting rainwater
in contrast, Israeli settlers, who live in the West Bank in violation of international law, have intensive-irrigation farms, lush gardens and swimming pools
So, how is keeping the source of life- water- from Palestinians - Israel defending itself exactly? | |
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