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| how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 10/29/2009 10:06:24 AM | interesting question, no?
possible reasons:
(1) the more beautiful the woman, the more they realize they can have any number of
men, why settle for one for very long? i.e., s*x-lib has changed everything.
(2) modern men have not kept up w women's needs, and they get bored quickly? i.e.,
women have changed, and men have not adapted in a way acceptable to women? If
so, why have men not changed, and further, is it realistic that they can? Is it
feasible that they do so? Or would men lose more than they would gain by making
the supposed needed changes?
(3) men refuse, or are unable, to see the red lights she is flashing months in advance,
leaving her to be the one to finally say "bye"? male ego might be the key in this
possibility. But this begs the question: implicit in the fact women do the breaking up,
is the idea that it is the women who dislike committment, not men (every divorce I
have ever seen it is not the man who wants to break up, it is the woman, have seen
this five times just in the last two years, most cases also before that). Is
this in turn a function of modern societal conditioning whereby the woman has
accepted the modern premise that women should not want men? With the resultant
outcome that women have a subconscious discomfort with any relationship from
the start (or at least soon after it begins) that serves to utlimately bring the
relationship to an end, albeit, in a way neither the man or woman truly
understand? move on to the next one, repeat "self-destruct" process.
(4) "singleness" (% people who are single) has risen dramatically in the last few
decades. In turn, there are far more people of both genders available for flings,
thus increasing the temptation to wander, putting pressure on relationships that
once would have been a lifetime "done deal". The s*x-lib culture=single culture,
creating a far more difficult atmosphere for monogamy than was the case , say,
60 yrs.
There are other possiblities of course, these are just a few. I suspect it is a combination of these things in many instances, who knows? Please know I am not saying women are "wrong" to leave a relationship, of course a woman should have that right. Am only asking "why" this appears to be the case so that men can gain better understanding of women. | |
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| how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 10/29/2009 10:18:21 AM | | It's the divorce lottery in some cases. Abuse in some cases. Percieved abuse in others. Boredom, grass is greener syndrome, affairs. A whole host of reasons. Same with men. Though sometimes it's "cheaper to keep her" | |
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| how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 10/29/2009 10:29:03 AM |
There are other possiblities of course, these are just a few. I suspect it is a combination of these things in many instances, who knows? Please know I am not saying women are "wrong" to leave a relationship, of course a woman should have that right. Am only asking "why" this appears to be the case so that men can gain better understanding of women.
Good luck with that. Really.
Women are far too fickle for their own good, and I'd propose this is why they appear to initiate most of the breakups. The only concrete stat available just about anywhere is the divorce rate...of which 75% of divorces are initiated by women. Won't take anyone long to find those stats either.
So I suppose it'd be a pretty logical assumption to suggest that if that many divorces are initiated by women, simple relationships can't fare that much better now can they?
Too many livin' in a fairytale vacuum where the real world doesn't apply, and they feel entitled to this that and the next thing...and woe be the man that can't read her mind or "between the lines". In short, woe be the man that doesn't "get"her and her *ahem* "needs".
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| how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 10/29/2009 10:30:23 AM |
...so that men can gain better understanding of women.
Isn't riding in on a white horse hoping to rescue women from the clutches of villainous men just a bit archaic?
Not to mention silly. Many women believe they want marriage when all they really want is a wedding (think of bridal magazines). In other words, they want to get married, but have little idea how to be married, at least partly because this is no longer part of the way young women are brought up. All the charm schools and finishing schools closed decades ago. Not even the more traditional religious types stress a woman knowing how to be a good wife (the very idea makes lots of people bristle) -- think Promise Keepers corraling men, but not women, for a day of admonishing on how to be good/better husbands.
The common pattern is that women are the first to want into marriage and the first to want out, but I don't see why only in the latter instance is the blame placed on men. The divorce and child support industrial complex gives women many incentives for abandoning perfectly acceptable husbands. It's like cashing out stock options.
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| how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 10/29/2009 10:31:02 AM |
Two-thirds of all divorces are initiated by women. One recent study found that many of the reasons for this have to do with the nature of our divorce laws. For example, in most states women have a good chance of receiving custody of their children. Because women more strongly want to keep their children with them, in states where there is a presumption of shared custody with the husband the percentage of women who initiate divorces is much lower. Also, the higher rate of women initiators is probably due to the fact that men are more likely to be "badly behaved." Husbands, for example, are more likely than wives to have problems with drinking, drug abuse, and infidelity.
Source: Margaret F. Brinig and Douglas A. Allen, “’These Boots Are Made For Walking”: Why Most Divorce Filers Are Women” American Law and Economics Review 2-1 (2000): 126-169 | |
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| how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 10/29/2009 10:52:07 AM |
interesting question, no?
Not really. It's been asked a lot.
And not sure if you are asking about divorce or all relationship breakups.
I can only assume you mean marriages.
Men are more happy in marriages, so don't want to do it.
Men feel they stand to lose a lot more than women with divorce, so don't want to do it.
Men remarry more quickly than women, so same guy and same problem but different girl, and bam increase in women initiating divorce.
Contrary to the singleness "wandering" theory most married men don't cheat.
Am only asking "why" this appears to be the case
Could be the "fault" of the media.
How many commercials and shows highlight being married?
How many magazines focus on what a woman needs to do to keep a man vs. what a man needs to do to keep a woman? Is the relationship work shown one sided? Who wants more work?
How many commercials and shows highlight being a single professionally oriented/orientated woman?
How many programs push for the advancement of women vs. the advancement of men?
Could be something as simplistic as when divorcing the guy usually has to leave the home. She gets the divorce papers first because he's too busy trying to find a place to live and get settled into a routine while her mailing address is constant.
Could be something like women feel they will be victimized so have to do it secretly and spring the divorce papers on the guy so he doesn't steal and hide a bunch of stuff from the house, or the kids, or whatever. (Personally I like this one based on all the forums of women wanting to avoid meeting people offline without a lot of email because they are scared of psychos).
Or general victim mentality. Men don't want to be perceived as "victimizing" women, so leave it up to them to initiate divorce rather than be perceived to be the ogre that kicked her ass to the curb with her children. Cold, hungry, homeless, and destitute.
Because the person that initiates it is going to be seen as the persecutor, and the person being divorced from is the victim. At least until the embellishments and stories come out. | |
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| how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 10/29/2009 10:53:15 AM | I think it depends on if you're talking about the breakup of a girlfriend/boyfriend relationship as opposed to a marriage breakup. There are generally many more considerations to be taken into account when there's an actual marriage: kids, financial implications, etc. In a marriage, men likely won't initiate because they are afraid of being taken to the cleaners and women will because divorce laws are often "perceived" to be more in their favour (in reality, here at least, it's more of a 50/50 proposition with things being split as evenly as possible).
When it comes to men and women going in and out of relationships that don't include mairriage, I tend to think it's a fairly even percentage. Men may tend to drift away and not discuss a break up and just not come around or call, whereas many women want to discuss it to death as they break up, which can very well stem from the dwindling of interest by the guy and she may be the one to say she's had enough of it - which makes it, in the end, a shared cause/decision and not so much one who initiates it. As far as cheating goes as a reason, I'm thinking that's pretty much relatively even nowadays and, again, probably close to even as to who choses to call it quits when the crap hits the fan when it's found out.
If you're dating and you find it's the women breaking up with you over and over again to the point it is 80%...maybe there's a reason that takes some looking in the mirror before your personal statistic is taken as true for everyone. | |
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| how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 10/29/2009 10:54:26 AM | | Oh my God this is the silliest number. Where'd ya come up with this? I read 52% of yanks have admitted adultery and 22% in England have had affairs. So by your numbers in colonies, it means 48% mess about and yet the headline said how you have improved! | |
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| how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 10/29/2009 11:28:15 AM |
Is that 80% a fact or your own experiences? Most divorces I know have been equally desired.
Actually, the stats show that significantly more women file for divorce than men. I think this is a result of a number of things in play...the relatively new women's movement, changes in the socio economic climate...a change in values...nature...nurture...
The fact is that it's a statistic that needs to be studied to determine what's going on and why. | |
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| how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 10/29/2009 11:43:13 AM | | One significant factor I suspect is that other states are like Texas, they will not grant even a temporary order of child support unless it is as a part of divorce proceedings or a paternity suit. | |
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| how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 10/29/2009 12:23:50 PM | Well , maybe its a man thing.Married women are known to suffer more from depression than married men.
I feel some women enter marriage , with many illusions and gradually have them shattered the first time he breaks wind in bed.This applies to men too, when the babies come and they are no longer center of their wives universe.Marriage is for mature adults, who have married for the right reasons and gotten to know their intended very well.It is not something, one does impulsively.Relationships the same.
I also feel , a woman should make the decision to marry /have relationship with someone not with their emotions but with their brain and sensible head.Emotions cloud issues and overlook red flags.Its vital to ensure you are compatible with similar goals and outlooks on life.Attraction is vital too,it has to be there, but it is not everything, just one facet of a relationship.
Get to know the guys family and background, its very telling.Know him in all his moods.Leave sex until you know him well and have an emotional connection as sex bonds people.
I myself would not even date someone unless I knew for certain there was an attraction.Why waste some guys time and then dump him.Why hurt someone out of a lack of common sense and thoughtfulness.Unless there is true attraction in the first place, leave it is as friends.
Finally these breakups show, how rare, the skill of true heartfelt communication is.Communication can prevent many breakups.Men are not mind readers and never get hints.Spit it out and be damned.Being direct and honest is the only way for a healthy relationship, to be happy, solid and long lasting.Appreciating ones partner also and having a positive, respectful attitude to them, not nitpicking faults, nagging, holding grudges or being selfish.We all have needs and each partner has to take the others needs into account.
Sure being a wife is a skill, being a husband is a skill.We learn these skills from our own parents.Divorce deprives kids of a good role model for lasting relationships.They may go into marriage/ relationships seeing divorce/splits as inevitable.Why not go in determined to make it last. I have had this role model myself , I am very lucky.In the case of abuse or neglect, divorce is necessary.But a lot of relationships could be saved with a bit of sense,realistic expectations, communication,respect, tolerance and real love.The truth is realtionships take effort and hard work and some want the fairy tale and not the work.If the statistics are true, maybe men should look in the mirror and ask why. | |
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| how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 10/29/2009 12:28:09 PM | (a) according to National Center for Health Statistics, women file for divorce at twice the rate of men, 61% of the ime or thereabouts. However,
(b) I am also including somewhat of a guesstimate for all relationships. In my own personal experience, I usually did the breaking up, except for once when it was more or less mutual. However, what I have witnessed, and seen in researching numerous sites, is that the consensus is that most of the time non-marriage breakups are probably initiated by women 75-80% of the time (varies), maybe you've seen the opposite. Of the five divorces I have seen in the last two years, in every case each was initiated by the women (which is why I was doing some research), all were long term marriages (over 14-25 yrs), and in no case was abuse the cause. Your own experiences and research may not jibe w/ mine, fine..that's why it's a forum.
At the very least, however, it is not merely subjective to say that women file for divorce twice as often as men, look it up (don't know about other countries and how it pans out overseas). And this correlates closely to exactly what I have seen for many years.
The question, and it is a good one, is "why". Judging by the number of people who want this thread deleted, this must hit home in a meaningful way. Which is why it should not be deleted :) | |
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| how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 10/29/2009 12:31:25 PM | throw the numbers out of the window...I belive,(andi do belive this) that women tend to want to leave first only because they can get a man almost anytime they want..the men are the ones looking...the women are the ones reciveing...and if the woman is goodlooking? men will be lined up waiting to vie for her affections. such is not the case with men...truth be told, how many women aproach men first? (ok, 2% will claim they do) does not happen that much...so the odds are stacked in the womans favor..
boils down to the story
woman walks into the bar, store wherever, and says "who wants to go home with me?' the men are jumping out of the chairs...man walks into the same bar store wherever and says "who wants to go home with me?" people turn around and think, a hole......this is not always the case of course but tends to have a ring of truth to it. | |
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| how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 10/29/2009 12:38:03 PM | Hm, 80%. Hm, "initiate"? A pretty nebulous question to ask, but I'll give it a shot.
My opinion is that men don't want to be the bad guy. I think it is more socially acceptable for a man to get dumped than for a woman to get dumped, so , in a way, it's nice that the guys are "letting" us do it ("making" us, is more like it, though, from my perspective).
Lots of times, in my experience, the man has checked out of the relationship--stopped trying--long before the woman dumps him. The woman will give him chances to rectify, but if he doesn't want to, nothing on earth--no cajoling, no pleading, no asking, no demanding--will ever get him to. Then she dumps him. Then he acts all surprised and wonders what the hell happened.
I think men are more willing to settle for "one in hand"/any woman they can get, while women seem to want a SPECIFIC man out there. | |
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| how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 10/29/2009 12:42:49 PM | Ok.. truth couched in some humor
Women initiate it more, cause they have an agenda MORE than a man does. Women see men as projects and try to change us from the getgo. When we resist.. and dont go along with their hints-that-turn-into-nagging-that-turns-into-ultimatums, eventually they wait until the statutory period runs allowing them a permanent hook into our wallet and then leave.
Your #2 is totally off base as is most of #1.
As far as men sticking around when they get signals of the eventual UNhappiness to come, well we signed on with resignation that the DAY we committed.. either to be monogamous, or move in or even marriage.. THAT was the best it was ever gonna be.. and all downhill from there. The woman was gonna give us LESS sex.. spend MORE money.. gain MORE weight.. and generally put us like Al Bundy.
Why do you think that the c*ckney part of england calls a spouse..
"The toil and strife" as a term for "the wife"
Men dont need a better understanding of women.. we KNOW how they are. What men need to do is to hold out for the one that is worthy and who DOESNT have her own agenda/timetable where we just become a wallet/spermdonor for THEIR dreams, but instead embraces OUR dreams as much as they want us to embrace theirs>
Edit: Just read Junkyards comment..
Oh my.. a woman stealing the thoughts right out of my head.. mostly. I'm impressed | |
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| how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 10/29/2009 12:43:42 PM |
according to National Center for Health Statistics, women file for divorce at twice the rate of men, 61% of the ime or thereabouts... At the very least, however, it is not merely subjective to say that women file for divorce twice as often as men, look it up (don't know about other countries and how it pans out overseas).
Who initiates the divorce proceedings is not indicative of whose idea it was first. Men could file less often cuz: 1) they don't want to spend the money; 2) they're in jail on spousal abuse charges; 3) they're too busy f***ing that young thang to bother with filing papers that might result in paying temporary child support and/or spousal maintenance. | |
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| how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 10/29/2009 1:18:53 PM | Actually, I ran into this question when I was helping my daughter research a paper for her University course. It was in the local library ( a fountain of info. for stats) under a government section for divorce stats.
There was a study/poll done in the late 90's about who initiates the divorce and for what reason. Apparently over 75% of women initiate divorce. The reasons, apparently, were caused by what the men had done in the marriage and it was the woman that finally had enough and called it quits.
According to the stats over 80% were husband caused and it was for adultery, abuse (all kinds from physical, emotional, neglect to mental), substance abuse issues, and desertion.
The reasons why women stayed until the bitter end were mostly for economic reasons.
Apparently, we put up with a heckuva lot when we cannot afford to support ourselves. | |
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| how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 10/29/2009 1:39:19 PM | Before I go on a tirrade, I will state the following:
- Violence in relationships is wrong, whoever does it. I understand that most believe men are more likely to be abusive (and it's probabley true) but this does not change the fact it can go the other way, but there is a stigma attached "How could you let her do that to you? Grow some balls!" etc. Either way, it's wrong, whoever does it. Completely understandable reason to leave somebody in the dust.
Men are possibly reluctant to file for divorce because these days (like it or lump it) it is pretty much semi-equivilant to signing a bit of paper saying "Hey you! Yes you there! Do YOU want to sign for a chance to lose LOTS of your stuff and possibly your children? If so, READ ON" (Disclaimer, I posted the above bit for a reason, so before people start going "OMG he beats her up, so sod him" Quite right, but i'm talking about the cases where there is no abuse)
If a women feels her needs are not being met in a relationship, she will take steps, which, if they fail, result in divorce. A women's needs not being met in the court room is more likely to be heard as "Neglective tosser, forgot about his wife"
A man's needs not being met in the court room is more likely to be heard as "You want her to do WHAT? You, sir, are a BEAST!"
Men probabley stopped filing for divorce in he situations where a relationship fizzles out because when it comes down to the legal nit-nat of it (Which is ultimatley what it is about) he probabley feels his representation in the issue is a no-go. You only need to look at popular media to know that when a women cheats it can be seen as (i'm not saying this is right by the way) possibly she had reason to drift off, or it was "understandable".
When a man does similar, it cannot be for any reason other than "he cannot keep it in his pants"
(PS. Cheaters are cheaters, I feel that there is never a good reason to cheat before people strawman my position)
When it comes down to it in a bold new world of dissolving gender stereotypes men are still victims to the shadow of an age gone down, as are women, difference is there are specifics to stop people (usually, and rightly so) putting down women in the workplace or what they can/can't do. A man's shadows of accusations are not challenged, they are assumed.
Many men welcome this bold new world, but the world just has to believe us, and it seems that an awful lot of it, just will not do that.
It's like that curious phenomenon of where the often-accused will start to admit to crimes they are not guilty of "because it goes that way anyway, and saves time" or in this case, the man stops trying to take intiative to control the progress of his position in a relationship because he knows (legally) he has less control than he feels he should be allowed to have.
When a man leaves a woman he's a fiend
When a woman leaves a man he's a doormat
When a man leaves a woman she's been done over
When a woman leaves a man she kicked him to the curb
Now i'm a complete fan of freedom of genders do to whatever the hell they feel capable of as a person. Also a massive fan of the people who try and stop that gender-based workplace treatment crap that goes on (mainly affecting women)
But what gets me is that by and large, men are still largely stereotyped. If people can grasp that the women today have a different mindset to the ones who lived in an age where gender roles were normal, why the hell can people not fathom generally that today's men are not the brutal ogres of yesteryear?
I'll not derail (have risked that already)
I'll end with a favourite analogy of mine: generally speaking, tomboys (or women with "masculine" interests) are held with either indifference or sometimes positivity by men today. Granted, some men dislike it.
Men who adopt interests in things "feminine" must first break down the wall society has thrown down in front of them that "accuses" them of being gay (like it's an insult???) and then find out the female public seems to be far far less receptive to such a thing than the gender reversed scenario. There was a thread here about it a while ago, and the answers in there pretty much agreed with this observation.
I could care less about whether a guy wants to wear powders or polishes but such double standards have got to go. | |
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| how come women initiate the breakup 80% of the time?
Posted: 10/29/2009 2:08:41 PM |
At the very least, however, it is not merely subjective to say that women file for divorce twice as often as men, look it up (don't know about other countries and how it pans out overseas). And this correlates closely to exactly what I have seen for many years.
It's two different conversations tho'. If you want to discuss why women initiate the divorce proceedings more frequently than men do (for which there is ample hard evidence) I would suggest that the current divorce laws, child custody and support laws would make it much more advantageous for women to file sooner than men.
If you want to discuss why women initiate the break up (of which there is no hard evidence regarding the ratio between male/female) it's a subjective conversation that could lead us down many different speculative paths. One of which is, do women initiate break ups more than men? Do men have a greater sense of duty or responsibility that keeps them in loveless or non-workable relationships more than women? Is that sense of duty inflated or ego based? Do men stay because they do not want the associated failure of leaving first? Are women more flakey/fickle/quitters compared with men? Lots of opportunity for wild azz speculation. | |
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