| Protection From Predators
Posted: 11/1/2009 6:19:55 AM | Protection From Predators: Should we be able to protect ourselves?
A young woman was attacked and killed by coyotes while hiking alone here in my province of Nova Scotia, Canada. She was on the Skyline Trail in the Cape Breton Highlands National Park close to Cheticamp. I hiked that trail just last summer. It is well used and there were other hikers in the vicinity at the time.
http://thechronicleherald.ca/Front/1149776.html
She only the second person in on record to lose their life in such a way. The other was a three year old girl in Glendale, Calif. She was attacked in her own yard in a suburb. There is a growing concern about the growing number of just not only coyotes but other predatory animals as well both here in Canada and the United States. Cougars, bears, and wolves reintroduced and protected by laws are starting to move into urban areas because of the presence of ample prey (deer, rabbits) also protected by laws in urban settings. There have been a high number of recorded attacks on humans and fatalities from those predators.
http://easterncougar.org/CougarNews/?p=682
Here in Nova Scotia the problem is to the point that now we have had a fatality. In the Truro area, they are calling for a cull of coyotes because it is so bad.
http://www.trurodaily.com/index.cfm?sid=299135&sc=68
My own up close and personal experience came last fall when three coyotes howled and yipped 120 yards away from me as I field dressed a deer I had just harvested. It was the first time in my life that I did not unload my firearm after filling my tag. I was pretty sure at the time that they would not attack but took no chances. From that point on, I found myself wishing I could carry a sidearm when traveling alone in the woods. Since Ms. Taylor’s death that feeling will be amplified.
There are reports that the hikers that called 911 stood by and did not intervene as the two coyotes continued their attack probably because they feared for their own safety being unarmed and not knowing what to do in the case of an animal attack in the wild. The fact that they did not help is the subject for another thread.
Many Canadian and U.S. citizens travel the woods alone, both for recreation and to work. Many States and all Provinces here in Canada prohibit the carry of sidearms.
Should people be able to legally arm themselves for protection when traveling in the woods?
Edit: My apologies for the miss spell on the posting title and a thank you to wudger for pointing it out. | |
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| Protection From Pedators
Posted: 11/1/2009 6:22:41 AM |
Should people be able to legally arm themselves for protection when traveling in the woods?
not if they can't spell predator right in their thread titles. | |
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| Protection From Pedators
Posted: 11/1/2009 6:47:46 AM | | It's fair if the cost of gobbling up wilderness for development is a few hikers or hunters get gobbled up by the wild animals displaced. I'm thinking we should be offering sacrificial hikers just on principle to atone for the degradation of natural habitats. | |
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| Protection From Pedators
Posted: 11/1/2009 6:57:55 AM | I presently sit on a municipal council committee looking into the land protect within the jurisdiction. I am as concerned as you are about the degradation of wood lands. It is what I can do to as a citizen to protect and preserve. There is little, I am finding out, I can do to prevent urban sprawl. Are you actively involved in protectionism for woodlands?
I'm thinking we should be offering sacrificial hikers just on principle to atone for the degradation of natural habitats.
What if it were you? What if it was your child? | |
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| Protection From Pedators
Posted: 11/1/2009 7:03:22 AM | | Keep whipping up Fever...You'll get the right to shoot them soon...Man must prevail | |
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| Protection From Pedators
Posted: 11/1/2009 7:13:41 AM | I'm a lot less worried about animals than I am about some Ahnold wannabe emptying his glock into somebody looking for a lost dog in the dark.
"sure sounded like a coyote to me." | |
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| Protection From Pedators
Posted: 11/1/2009 7:30:18 AM | | ^^^Wudger, I don't understand your complete bias against firearms. Most gun owners are very safe and make sure of what they are shooting first and what may be behind it. I know you'll cry for a source, so my source is look at the number of news stories you see where someone accidently shoots someone else because they mistook that person for a threat and compare that to the number of gun owers in America. | |
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| Protection From Pedators
Posted: 11/1/2009 7:36:55 AM |
Keep whipping up Fever...You'll get the right to shoot them soon...Man must prevail
To clarify my original posting. I, at no time, mentioned the wanton killing of any animal. I asked if we should be able to carry sidearms for protection not hunting nor killing. | |
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| Protection From Pedators
Posted: 11/1/2009 7:46:06 AM |
^^^Wudger, I don't understand your complete bias against firearms. Most gun owners are very safe and make sure of what they are shooting first and what may be behind it. I know you'll cry for a source, so my source is look at the number of news stories you see where someone accidently shoots someone else because they mistook that person for a threat and compare that to the number of gun owers in America.
well figures like these to start with.
In 2002, there were 30,242 firearm-related deaths in the United States, including 17,108 (57%) suicides, 12,129 (40%) homicides (including 300 deaths due to legal intervention/war), and 1,005 (3%) undetermined/unintentional firearm deaths.
CDC/National Vital Statistics Reports, Vol. 53, No. 5, October 12, 2004, p.77.
In the United States in 2002, 67% of all homicides and 54% of all suicides resulted from the use of a firearm.
CDC/National Vital Statistics Reports, Vol. 53, No. 5, October 12, 2004, p. 32.
add many years of living in inner city ghettos.
then toss in growing up on a farm in western new jersey where every hunting season we would pull hunting arrows out the barn roofs and houses and find shotgun pellets embedded in the walls, not to mention losing livestock and dogs to "hunters" who apparently didn't know the difference between a golden retriever or a cow and a deer or didn't care.
and thirteen months in the infantry in vietnam.
guns are dumb. | |
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| Protection From Predators
Posted: 11/1/2009 7:47:45 AM | What you mean is if we should relax our gun laws and allow people to carry guns while going out on picnics...
My issue with this is that I go hiking quite often in wooded areas, but never during hunting season as it is far too dangerous... which is what it would be if hikers started carrying guns all the time.
Protect yourself by carrying bear spray, which is perfectly legal and non-lethal, carry canned air horns which will scare off many wild animals and most of all, do not hike alone or carry food that the animals can smell. There are many alternatives to firearms and they are available at outdoorsman shops and safety stores everywhere. | |
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| Protection From Pedators
Posted: 11/1/2009 8:02:13 AM | First off, don't go hiking alone. Secondly, know your surroundings and have a bit of a clue as to what your walking into... wild animal territory. If your not equipped to deal with the animals, stay out of THIER home.
Animals will always attack people, whether it's bears, dogs, wolves or snakes. There are many reasons they do, such as being hungry, scared, threatened, curious, etc. Are we going to get rid of them all because they've attacked a select few people who weren't careful enough to protect themsleves or who didn't know enough to stay out of thier way?
Many States and all Provinces here in Canada prohibit the carry of sidearms.
I'm not really that familiar with the gun laws here in Ontario, but when I go into the bush for a walk with my husband and kids, he always carries a gun on him. We are aware that there are many bears (due to the abundance of corn fields around here this time of year) and also alot of wolves and coyotes. We carry bear spray as well as a small air horn.
This is one of the quotes from the story of the T.O. woman who was mauled:
"She loved the woods and had a deep affinity for their beauty and serenity,"
That's not enough to get you through a hike in the woods. I love the woods and I love the beauty of it... but I also know that it's alive with animals who live there and hunt there.
I don't think people should be able to arm themselves when walking on public trails, as that can become quite dangerous. "Officer, I thought that boy walking off the path was a bear, so I shot my gun". Not good.
I think that people just need to use thier heads before going out for a hike or a run on a bush trail. Be aware of what could happen and how you can protect yourself. If you have a dog, take it with. Use a small air horn... after one blow of that, animals usually get scared and run. Have bear spray and a hunting knife handy. Seems excessive, but if you don't protect yourself... your just another victim waiting to happen. | |
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| Protection From Predators
Posted: 11/1/2009 8:04:53 AM | | Oh..great idea! More people carrying guns in the woods. No chance for disaster there. | |
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| Protection From Predators
Posted: 11/1/2009 8:23:39 AM | Protect yourself by carrying bear spray, which is perfectly legal and non-lethal
Finally someone who wants to discuss the posting. to FL Co and wuger, there are plenty of gun threads you can discuss the ownership and rights to firearms on.
I agree with lint spotter on the points of preparing yourself with sprays and horns. They will help. Here in Nova Scotia, bear spray otherwise known as pepper spray is illegal for ordinary folk. I would not want to put my faith in the low end stuff that Canadian Tire sells and calls "animal repellent".
Air horns are as good as a shot fired in the air just as long as the animal doesn't keep coming. Again I agree with lint spotter with her concerns about woods travel during hunting season. Why take the chance even thought hikers or wood workers being injured or killed by hunters is just about as remote as being killed by a coyote, at least here in Nova Scotia.
which is what it would be if hikers started carrying guns all the time.
Again the thinking that just because someone is in possession of a gun, they're going to be constantly discharging it in the woods. People who carry firearms in the woods in this Province are very safety minded and have to go through safety training before they can own a firearm. If such a law were passed in this area, very strict laws and guidelines would be in place to govern the carry of sidearms for protection.
People in this province can legally own and use sidearms following existing laws. There is also a criminal element in this area that doesn't care about those laws. All the laws and bans in the world will not stop them. | |
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| Protection From Predators
Posted: 11/1/2009 8:30:27 AM | I have a far smaller chance of getting eaten by a mountain lion or other wild animal (and I do hike regularly) than I do of getting attacked by human predators at the mall. Should we all carry guns to the mall?
It's part of the circle of life. If you don't like it, stay in the city. Try surviving that jungle. | |
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| Protection From Pedators
Posted: 11/1/2009 8:32:54 AM |
he always carries a gun on him
I'm not familiar with Ontario laws either but if it is a hand gun he is carrying, he might be breaking the law. Here in Nova Scotia you can carry a shotgun using shot smaller than triple o buckshot. However, you can't carry in a park or in urban areas under existing laws. Even were you could, this would be bulky and inefficient to the activity at hand. Not to mention causing concern for peoples encountered. I know that responsible firearm owners do not display their firearm in public so as not to create unnecessary fear.
Again, thanks for the input  | |
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| Protection From Predators
Posted: 11/1/2009 8:38:08 AM |
I have a far smaller chance of getting eaten by a mountain lion or other wild animal (and I do hike regularly) than I do of getting attacked by human predators at the mall. Should we all carry guns to the mall?
And where it is legal, people do carry in malls. Human predators are a problem as well there are lots of threads which deal with that very subject.
If there is a chance, small or large, what do you do to protect yourself in the woods or in the mall. I'm not being sarcastic here and I would sincerely like to know. If someone takes your advice, it may save their life. | |
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| Protection From Predators
Posted: 11/1/2009 9:30:37 AM |
She only the second person in on record to lose their life in such a way.
Yup, this is an epidemic alright. | |
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| Protection From Predators
Posted: 11/1/2009 9:38:05 AM | Hikers are encroaching on predators' turf. The people want to cut everything down to build strip malls, residential developments, and oh yes we need a Walgreens, bank, or fast food joint on every corner.
Where is the wild life suppose to go, let alone eat. Coyotes are eating dogs when food becomes scarce.
Stay out of the woods if you don't want to be eaten by a bear, coyote, wolf. Stay out of the ocean if you don't want to be eaten by a shark or gator. | |
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| Protection From Pedators
Posted: 11/1/2009 9:40:36 AM | Should people be able to legally arm themselves for protection when traveling in the woods?
No. I don't care for things getting to the point where an animal may be shot and killed simply because a human felt like walking into their habitat.
If someone takes your advice, it may save their life. I believe this (from msg 18) referred to taking a gun to the mall. Whether or not I agree, I'll stick to the issue at hand and point out that the same concept shouldn't apply to going into the woods.
While it is true that a gun in the woods might save your life, staying out of predators' habitats would do the same.
There are hunting seasons that should be complied with. If one is uncomfortable risking one's life in the woods, that person should stay out. As pointed out above, there are other methods of keeping animals at bay. If those are not sufficient in someone's eyes, stay home.
***
We share the planet, guys.
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| Protection From Predators
Posted: 11/1/2009 9:43:31 AM | | Mavcomart...isn't it obvious to you that people don't give a rip about anything that does not or has not affected them,convictions of coveinence based on a lack of experience or the probability of circumstance is all you're going to get. | |
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| Protection From Pedators
Posted: 11/1/2009 9:45:03 AM |
I'm not familiar with Ontario laws either but if it is a hand gun he is carrying, he might be breaking the law.
As they are illigal, we don't own handguns. We are hunters and own several different guns. He will usually carry a .22 when we're out. It's not super powerful, but it will help us if needed. His gun is registered and we're not going out with the intent to hunt anything, it's just protection. It's also on our own property, so I'm not sure what the law says about that?
wudger, I agree with the OP, take your "gun hate" rants to another thread. This is about protecting yourself in the wilderness. It doesn't mean having to take a gun with you... it means being aware of what your walking into and what you can do to prevent animal atacks. | |
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| Protection From Predators
Posted: 11/1/2009 9:53:02 AM |
People who carry firearms in the woods in this Province are very safety minded and have to go through safety training before they can own a firearm. This is for all of Canada, and the license is called an FAC. As for following the laws, I'm sorry... I will have to disagree with you on that one... my family hails from Cheticamp and Pleasant Bay and in the little towns along the Cabot Trail, the people go by a different set of laws than those of the province or the country. It's like stepping into a different world... not necessarily a bad world, but certainly not a lifestyle that would be tolerated in a larger city. | |
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| Protection From Pedators
Posted: 11/1/2009 9:55:27 AM | What a lot of people don't realize is that coyotes are not native to eastern Canada. They've moved in from the west in past decades. How can we be encroaching on their natural habitats?
Attacks by coyotes on adults are extremely rare,and that's what I find disturbing in this case. Here in Manitoba there's a large coyote population,but attacks are unheard of.
I think we should be able to carry protection of some type. I've been carrying a rifle or shotgun for years,although I'm more concerned about a rabid skunk than a coyote. I tend to walk or hike in more secluded places though. Even a good knife will afford some protection. | |
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