| The dumbing down of society and its impact on children and public mindset towards intelligence
Posted: 11/4/2009 9:50:07 AM | I recently watched a clip of a certain celebrity struggling to do a very basic math question on Who Wants to be a Millionaire (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtrZ4Dec6eo&feature=related).
When I thought about it, it's really extremely sad that society as a whole has become accustomed to public displays of outright stupidity by celebrities - people who supposedly serve as role models for the next generation of youths. When I look at this situation from a different perspective, I see an adult who has barely mastered what the average 10 year old could probably do. This is a person who in any other situation would probably have been considered as being someone who was abused, in the sense that she never learned basic life skills that the rest of the population would be expected to have. Yet at the same time, this person is someone who is considered successful (in a way) in our society - not exactly the kind of message that should be sent out to the youthful viewers out there.
My question is, why does the public accept these public displays of outright stupidity? This is something that is embraced and accepted. It's really disturbing how we can look at someone who might score as "borderline retarded" on an IQ test and have him/her as a public figure who is considered successful.
Some may see this as the norm e.g. "Oh, celebs are dumb, no big news there" - but again, these are people who are supposed to serve as some form of role model for our kids, and this is especially true when so many youths watch TV nowadays. I try to drive in this point, and I don't want to overstate it - I understand that kids won't automatically be dumbed down just from watching these people, but the message is still there that being extremely, extremely stupid can be considered "cool" and accepted.
Tangent point: Also, public schools seem to be geared towards the mediocre (boiling it down to the "lowest common denominator"), again, there's this mindset where intelligence isn't really embraced or nurtured. Is this really the right perspective that we, as a society, should view intelligence? If not, why doesn't society as a whole not change? | |
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| The dumbing down of society and its impact on children and public mindset towards intelligence
Posted: 11/4/2009 9:58:08 AM | That's not the point I'm trying to make. The more important aspect of what I'm saying is why the concept of "dumb celebs" should even be the norm at all, to briefly summarize what I've been saying without restating too much.
Perhaps the video isn't the best example of a dumb celeb - it's just something that I drew inspiration from to write this thread, but my point(s) stand. | |
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| The dumbing down of society and its impact on children and public mindset towards intelligence
Posted: 11/4/2009 10:01:31 AM |
Some may see this as the norm e.g. "Oh, celebs are dumb, no big news there" - but again, these are people who are supposed to serve as some form of role model for our kids, and this is especially true when so many youths watch TV nowadays. I try to drive in this point, and I don't want to overstate it - I understand that kids won't automatically be dumbed down just from watching these people, but the message is still there that being extremely, extremely stupid can be considered "cool" and accepted.
It's a catch 22.
Only people stupid enough to think that anyone on TV should be considered a role model will be affected, thus not making any more stupid people, just making the already stupid people even dumber. | |
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| The dumbing down of society and its impact on children and public mindset towards intelligence
Posted: 11/4/2009 10:01:48 AM |
I don't know why we should expect our celebrities to be intelligent. Intelligent people are probably too busy contributing something to society/protective of their personal space to 'prostitute' themselves to the masses.
because as I wrote before, these people are who our children - the next generation, observe, and perhaps look up to. As we know, children tend to learn by example (such as what they observe on the TV) as well as from their environment.
It's a catch 22.
Only people stupid enough to think that anyone on TV should be considered a role model will be affected, thus not making any more stupid people, just making the already stupid people even dumber.
You seem to misunderstand the difference between stupidity (low IQ) and ignorance/innocence/whatever you want to call it of children. Just because a kid can't realize that being dumb is in fact not cool, due to their lack of worldly knowledge/life experience, it doesn't mean they have a low IQ. These are completely different concepts. | |
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| The dumbing down of society and its impact on children and public mindset towards intelligence
Posted: 11/4/2009 10:04:36 AM |
I don't know why we should expect our celebrities to be intelligent. Intelligent people are probably too busy contributing something to society/protective of their personal space to 'prostitute' themselves to the masses.
Exactly
As athletes should not be looked at as anything more than Athletes.
Entertainers should not be looked as anything more than entertainers.
Failure to understand this = failure to understand. | |
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| The dumbing down of society and its impact on children and public mindset towards intelligence
Posted: 11/4/2009 10:10:18 AM |
Exactly
As athletes should not be looked at as anything more than Athletes.
Entertainers should not be looked as anything more than entertainers.
Failure to understand this = failure to understand.
This would be valid if you're referring to adults. The main point is that this is about CHILDREN. If you fail to grasp this basic difference between the standards to which children should be held to, versus the standards adults are held to, any further explanation in an attempt to clarify my points would be meaningless. | |
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| The dumbing down of society and its impact on children and public mindset towards intelligence
Posted: 11/4/2009 10:20:23 AM |
If ever I have children of my own, and for some reason I can't serve as a role model for my children, the last place I'll search for their role model is on TV.
Good for you, but the fact is that Western society is a "tv-society" where it's a standard form of entertainment. This may not apply so much to you personally, but it certainly is a widespread issue that affects a considerable number of families, which makes it an important issue to discuss.
If you think about it, where do you think the latest trends come from? These are trends that young people tend to follow quite well, so it is clear that celebs have some impact, unless you ban TV/media all together from your children. | |
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| The dumbing down of society and its impact on children and public mindset towards intelligence
Posted: 11/4/2009 10:32:30 AM | | John D. Rockefeller (whose descendents run the American economy) once said "I don't want a nation of thinkers, I want a nation of workers." Since then, Rockefeller's General Education Board has embraced this as policy in American public education, to produce people who are (hopefully) trained well enough to do their job, but too dumb to understand the system, or how things really work; hence the American ignorance of the workings of the economy and in particular, the monetary system. | |
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| The dumbing down of society and its impact on children and public mindset towards intelligence
Posted: 11/4/2009 10:36:54 AM | Good for you, but the fact is that Western society is a "tv-society" where it's a standard form of entertainment. This may not apply so much to you personally, but it certainly is a widespread issue that affects a considerable number of families, which makes it an important issue to discuss.
If you think about it, where do you think the latest trends come from? These are trends that young people tend to follow quite well, so it is clear that celebs have some impact, unless you ban TV/media all together from your children.
The issue of TV is an important one. But it should be questioned as much as it is discussed, wouldn't you agree? I don't want to stray too far off topic, but what you have to question is the special interest groups that deliver the programing to your home. They have a special interest in you, but it's not an interest in educating you. The entertainers are just pawns. | |
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| The dumbing down of society and its impact on children and public mindset towards intelligence
Posted: 11/4/2009 10:39:10 AM |
If you think about it, where do you think the latest trends come from? These are trends that young people tend to follow quite well, so it is clear that celebs have some impact, unless you ban TV/media all together from your children.
Trends are not manufactured by TV.
Advertisers find trends and then use TV and one of the mediums to sell the message.
Advertisers spend billions of dollars finding ways to influence kids and they made a break through in the late 70's when they discovered it made more sense to market directly to the children and not that parents. (some would say that G. Lucas was the 1st to break through this barrier with the marketing of toys from the film Star Wars)
They use to believe that you need to sell the product to the person with the money, but learned that they can be more successful by selling to the kid and then let the kid go to work on the parent.
Knowing that it is easier for the parent to say no to an ad, but much harder to say no to their kids.
Stupid people on a game show is not going to affect how your kids is going to turn out.
A commercial enterprise with a vested interest in turning your kid into a faithful consumer should be a bigger concern. | |
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| The dumbing down of society and its impact on children and public mindset towards intelligence
Posted: 11/4/2009 12:18:09 PM |
It is not that she is not intelligent... if she had more confidence she would have taken the time to break the question down and actually attempt to answer it in her mind. How can she answer it if she does not even believe that she can? I don't think that she even tried, she just shrugged her shoulders and said, "Math is hard."
I absolutely agree!
When I thought about it, it's really extremely sad that society as a whole has become accustomed to public displays of outright stupidity by celebrities - people who supposedly serve as role models for the next generation of youths. When I look at this situation from a different perspective, I see an adult who has barely mastered what the average 10 year old could probably do.
I think this is completely unfair and a little worrying. The question was one of arithmetic. ****Right now in your head if tax= 14% what is the full price of a sandwich that costs $22.oo
The truth is after education many people aren't exposed to situations where they can train themselves to do such arithmetic. Does it mean they are unintelligent. I would seriously hope not. I for one believe that intelligence is 99% trained and 1% innate. Maybe the celebrity is just not trained in the area of arithmetic. After all, in the end she did get the question correct. So maybe her 1% of innate intelligence was great enough to answer the question in the end. If she was truly borderline retarded then she would never have answered the question...even with a little help.
Also, public schools seem to be geared towards the mediocre (boiling it down to the "lowest common denominator"), again, there's this mindset where intelligence isn't really embraced or nurtured. Is this really the right perspective that we, as a society, should view intelligence? If not, why doesn't society as a whole not change?
Because the majority of us are trained to work and not to think. The ones who think give us the instructions and we just follow them. When we have learned what the instructions are and can prove it, we just do it till we die. Since it takes one person who thinks to provide instructions then society really doesn't need to emphasize intelligence. Intelligence is only emphasized when a particular person is shown to have a "knack" to think in the opinion of this poster.
****calculating 14% of 22 is easy to do in your head. My favorite way is this:
Multiply 10 by 22 to get 220. Then multiply 4 by 22 to get 88. Add 88 to 220 to get 308. Now simply divide by 308 by 100 to get 3.08. So now we know 14% of 22 = 3.08
Add this to $22.00 to get 25.08 to get the answer to the question I asked. But honestly this is learned through practice just like it takes practice to learn an instrument regardless of if you're a prodigy or not! 10 year olds get much more practice than an adult that probably hasn't touched math in a long time thus making the example provided in the original post a poor indicator of the celebrities intelligence. I am always worried and saddened when people are regarded as unintelligent from such examples. | |
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| The dumbing down of society and its impact on children and public mindset towards intelligence
Posted: 11/4/2009 3:44:54 PM | 'Dukky'..//John D. Rockefeller (whose descendents run the American economy) once said "I don't want a nation of thinkers, I want a nation of workers//
.. Dukky.. You've nailed it as usual my friend.
An important thing to note is that we don't have 4 channels anymore (ohhh, how that makes it so much more complicated). What we get with 400+ channels is choice. Throw the Internet into the mix and an individual could spend all day/every day watching 'nout' but 'nature' programmes... Or 'makeover' shows.
The 'idiotbox' will not be able to control the masses for much longer. The worst thing that will occur with such an unlimited choice of viewing is a type of 'pidgeon-holing' that will break societies up into very visable groups who easily betray what they fill their minds and the minds of their children with....
People who don't educate themselves generally reproduce at a faster rate than those who do though.
It's a kinda cosmic balance methinks lol. | |
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| The dumbing down of society and its impact on children and public mindset towards intelligence
Posted: 11/4/2009 4:17:47 PM | you have no idea when a celebrity is dumb or just playing
why would anyone profess celebrity role models are the smart people when most were just right place, right time and got good marketing.
sports celebrities are the same people you called dumb jocks in school even though the latest reports are that regular exercise makes you smarter.
teach your kids to decern reality from fantasy reality shows and entertainment like sports and game shows and sitcoms.
as for math ... you can blame calculators on that problem and remember celebrities have accountants and business managers so don't have to ever think about that stuff if they don't want to. | |
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| The dumbing down of society and its impact on children and public mindset towards intelligence
Posted: 11/4/2009 4:43:29 PM | I hate the idea that "public schools are dumbed down" No they aren't, god forbid schools teach to REALISTIC means. In all honesty you dont need algebra, you don't need chemistry, you don't need a lot of the higher learning classes in playschools, and personally I think they're probably detrimental in the long run.
High school is to prepare kids for real life, for their first job making sandwiches or washing cars, not to step into the shoes of a rocket scientist at 19. The teens are a very hard time for just about every human being. When schools are packed with these ridiculous specialty classes its just more pressure on these kids to try to sponge more information when the biggest issue on their mind is "why am I who I am"
I took a lot of advanced math classes in high school, but its because I liked math. I enjoyed solving these numerical puzzles. I dont think removing the programs from school is right, but for god sake do not dumb down a great thing. EVERYONE, Im gonna say that again, EVERYONE in this country can go to school. Everyone can get the basic education needed to live life. Thats not the case in many other countries.
Celebrities arent stupid because public schools are bad. Celebrities are stupid, because they're stupid. If you choke the life out of the will to learn in kids by stuffing them full of ridiculous highschool classes they probably wont every use its only going to serve to make them not want to continue their education. | |
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| The dumbing down of society and its impact on children and public mindset towards intelligence
Posted: 11/4/2009 5:23:55 PM |
hate the idea that "public schools are dumbed down" No they aren't
They ARE dumbed down. Schools do NOT teach critical thinking; they TRAIN you how to do things. Even in your (public) high school university entrance math class, how many theorems did you have to prove? Chances are, not that many and the ones that you did were probably discussed in class in advance anyway, so they could be conjured from memory for an exam.
The PRIVATE schools are different. They ARE teaching critical thinking and preparing students for a good university, but that stands to reason, because those children are expected to be part of the ruling class when they grow up.
Whether you see it or not (probably not), you live in a neo-feudalistic society, where the ruling elite feels a distinct sense of superiority to the "useless eaters" who make up the bulk of society. | |
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| The dumbing down of society and its impact on children and public mindset towards intelligence
Posted: 11/4/2009 5:32:50 PM | ^^^^^^^^
Jeez dukky, just when I read one of your posts, and say to myself, YES, I agree with him, then you write the last two lines and blow it................
neo-fuedalistic?
"useless eaters"??
ruling elite???
Public schools aren't necessarily dunbed down, they are just VERY politically correct, and as such cannot teach to the highest level and hope as many as possible reach it, but have to teach to the lowest level, so no one is left behind. Unfortunately, that leaves ALL students behind.
Paul K | |
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| The dumbing down of society and its impact on children and public mindset towards intelligence
Posted: 11/4/2009 5:55:20 PM | have to teach to the lowest level, so no one is left behind. Unfortunately, that leaves ALL students behind.
That is intentional and a function of educational(?) policy.
As for the "neo-feudalistic", "useless eaters", "ruling elite" stuff, I stand by it. The Western countries are ruled by a wealthy business/banking elite, who have been setting government policy for many decades. The transformation has been slow and insidious, but there to see if you want to look. Behind closed doors, the man in the street is considered a "useless eater", "slave", "empty container", etc. but the popular PUBLIC euphemism you have undoubtedly heard: "human resource". That's right; people are now just another resource to be exploited and discarded when they have lost their usefulness. Their only function is to give their labour to the elite, just like the "old days" when tenant farmers did the same for their (land)lords. This is done through government of course. People are "owned" and cared for by a parent called "government", who takes all their wealth in return for "benefits. Anyone who can do the accounting can see what a raw deal the man in the street got. He HAS to be kept stupid. If he wised up he'd be headed to his "representative's house with a shotgun! (If he REALLY wised up, he'd be shooting guys like Bernanke, Paulson & the Rockefellers!) | |
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| The dumbing down of society and its impact on children and public mindset towards intelligence
Posted: 11/4/2009 6:27:32 PM | ^^^^^^
I am sorry, but I simply cannot proscribe to as dark an outlook on life as you do. What I see in your writings, and many others who believe as you do is that you seem to have a hatred for anybody who has done better than the "comman man", and you want to redress that ineaquity.................
What I see in the USA especially is that if you work, save judiciously, invest in the right things, you will do well, and retire very comfortably. A little example. I have friends who worked for a local city, he trimmed trees, she worked in their billing dept. They bought a house in the mid '60's for about $25K, very much just another house in a blue collar neighbor hood. They had three kids, all went to college, two are doing well, one is struggling. About 4 years ago, they sold the house, which was paid for by this time, and moved to a location where real estate was MUCH cheaper than where they lived.......... If you were to combine their monthly income of SSI, small pensions from the city, small IRA, their total income is about $5,500.00/ month. With a paid residence and money in the bank, and if you've ever talked to anybody who has retired, retirement is less costly than working. They didn't do anything extrordinary, just played by the rules, led a very dull boring life, and now in their mid '60's are enjoying life, as they should.
If you try to tell me that most people can't do as they did, you couldn't be more wrong. Neither of them had any more education than high school. Even with public education in the abysmal state it is in, it can still be done. I don't feel sorry for those who fritter away their life, and at the end cry about "how it isn't fair"........ Read the fable about the ant and the grasshopper..............
Paul K | |
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| The dumbing down of society and its impact on children and public mindset towards intelligence
Posted: 11/4/2009 8:05:55 PM |
What I see in your writings, and many others who believe as you do is that you seem to have a hatred for anybody who has done better than the "comman man", and you want to redress that ineaquity....
I think you are reading your predispositions into what I write. I have no hatred, not even for the "elite" (which does NOT include self made billionaires BTW). If you've ever watched "Monty Python" and saw the "Upperclass Twit of the Year" competition, you have a pretty good idea of what I consider the ruling elite to be like. They are inbred fools riding on the coattails of their grandfathers and ought not be in a position of economic power, yet they are the "shadow government" by virtue of their position of birth. Hence my term "neo-feudalism" for the economic system they use to keep feathering their nest.
What I want to redress is the inequality in LAW, that keeps the common man a tenant farmer on a "plantation". I'm one of those guys who believes that we are all equal under the law and I want to make it so (because right now you aren't, but you probably don't even know it). | |
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