| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/4/2009 12:03:39 PM | Being a long time forumite, I can't help but notice that when someone has an issue with a relationship, it seems to be that this is an issue that has popped up before for the person in previous relationships. That the person is choosing the same types of a partner over and over again all the while expecting a different result.
For the life of me, I cannot fathom having left a bad relationship and gravitating towards the same type of a person that will bring about the same issues to deal with in the future. I'm not saying I'm a relationship guru or anything, but I've had some damned good relationships with men and to this day, when I think back on my life I'm more likely to smile at a memory than frown.
I am however curious as to what might be the underlying issue that the perpetual victims have that lead them to making the same choices over and over again with the same results. Are people such as this truly blind to the situation? Are they even aware that they are blaming the other person and not accepting any responsibility for their poor choice in a partner?
Insight anyone? | |
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/4/2009 12:08:23 PM | | Perpetual "victims" rarely, if ever, see themselves in repeating patterns. They usually say the just "wind up" with certain types without ever realizing they're really unconsiously seeking them out and if you try to point that out, you'll be met with doubt, outright skepticism or denial. | |
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/4/2009 12:11:57 PM | | I think it's simply that a lot of people refuse to look at themselves as part of an equation - so they blame everything on the other person, and then rationalize that a different person will solve the problem. | |
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/4/2009 12:15:26 PM | ^^^yep, I agree with all of you.
I would imagine it's quite complex - to be a victim, you've got to find a partner who will make you one.
Perhaps the victims of this world feel very comfortable in that role. That, and they love the attention..
Oh woe is me... | |
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/4/2009 12:16:12 PM | The behavioral idea for this is that growing up people naturally adapt whatever family relationship dynamic they have as their example. If that includes any problematic idiosyncrasy, then that, too, is a part of the mix. Later as adults the person will feel most at home in a relationship that includes a similar problem, knowing how it works and what to expect. Without the knowledge of such things there is only the specific story of their individual life, and the problem is in that way rationalized and misunderstood, much like it was growing up, so that the blindness is built in and also the explanation comes with it. An example would be abuse, where the child grew up with abusive parents, but there was also love, and then for the abuse and nurturing to coexist there was some kind of rationalization. In that child's adult relationship you find the same habits.
What therapy and counseling do is present the generic principles of relationships and guide the person to a view of their situation that relates it to both their own dysfunctional model and alternate models believed to be healthier. Here's how relationships work and ways they fail; this is your mode of failure; this might work better; here is how you change your expectations and behaviors.
The pop psychology that winds up in self-help books and on TV is derived and repackaged from the applicable science. Scientists posit theories, do studies, publish results. Authors translate that into every day language. The result is useful information but also fads and buzzwords that can't really get the job done for being misunderstood, limited, and subject to incorporation into existing dysfunctional rationalizations. You get a couple screaming at each other saying things they heard on TV about abusive relationships, and other fun stuff like that. | |
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/4/2009 12:26:54 PM | Lint, I think sometimes this happens because the way the person manifests the character traits or behaviors that are a problem differ. I dated someone that seemed the opposite of my ex in terms of the things that created significant problems. Over time I saw that the same underlying issues were there, he just acted differently so essentially I wound up finding someone with similar problems, just different guy.
I think you are only a perpetual victim if you choose to remain in the relationship after having that light bulb moment when you realize, hey, this is Jerry in Tom clothing. | |
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/4/2009 12:37:54 PM | | When people are not fully aware of what they really want, they can often make the wrong choices in choosing partners over and over again until they reach the point when they can't stand the pain from the repeated results any more. Also this can happen when they are blind by only going for "feeling good" factors on physical level. | |
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/4/2009 12:45:45 PM |
The pop psychology that winds up in self-help books and on TV is derived and repackaged from the applicable science. Scientists posit theories, do studies, publish results. Authors translate that into every day language. The result is useful information but also fads and buzzwords that can't really get the job done for being misunderstood, limited, and subject to incorporation into existing dysfunctional rationalizations. You get a couple screaming at each other saying things they heard on TV about abusive relationships, and other fun stuff like that
I agree. You also see this dissemination in teenagers. I watch my daughter and her friends roleplay "relationships". Inevitably, their information comes from TV and the movies and, also inevitably, some girls become the victim - almost embrace that role - while the boy, unknowingly, becomes the perpetrator. This is how the grown-ups do it, you see. | |
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/4/2009 12:48:39 PM | I think its too easy to pin point or blame a specific reason why people continually go from one bad relationship to another.
I was in a bad relationship in hindsight, for a while longer than I should have been. Putting aside the issues that were my Ex's. The issues that made a difference were MY OWN.
A few of them came from my childhood, but my sister grew up in the same house and didnt make the same mistake I made.
Being the victim is easier than taking a step back and forgetting all others, looking into yourself to see how you yourself are, on the whole, the creator of all the situations you find yourself in.
Some people are the victim for so long they know no different, or can't seem to find a way to get out.
I've been there once and I will never go back. You can't save someone from being the victim, because, in some way or another, they got there or eventually ended up there themself and in order to learn from it need to get themselves back out again.
I did and I am a much better and stronger person for it. | |
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/4/2009 12:58:30 PM | Unless someone breaks the cycle one continues to do the same expecting a different result. Look at the number of people who have gotten out of abusive relationships, relationships with someone whose an alcoholic, who chooses the same type of person in the next relationship. Its what they know. Its easier for them to suffer than do the hard work to do something better. Needy people often will choose horrid people, because being needed in a bad way is better than not being needed at all.
While I have sympathy, I am also of the belief that we don't do anyone any favors by allowing them to be yo yo victims. Having had a homeless woman live with me for six months, I finally had her move, because the drama of her poor choices was exhausting me. Life is to damn short to allow oneself to be enabling people who have no real desire to change.
~Beth~ | |
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/4/2009 1:08:42 PM |
I will pass over the one where people who have repetitive problems or situation due to their constant selection of same stereotype of partners/situation; as it will be developed ad nauseam here.
One thing I will point out, for the sake of making some people think, is the second group, where the person is the cause of her own problematic, repeat the same behavior and actions (thus receiving the same reaction); as those people never see themselves as the initiator but as the victim.
This group is far more common then we think and , as a self absorbed society, we always look for the reasons of a problem from an outside perspective instead of the inside, when in fact our own actions are the root of our problems, and nothing more.
Change yourself and your world will change. | |
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/4/2009 1:23:07 PM | Hmmm...OP I can certainly see the point you're making as relates to really odvious traits in ones partner. For example: those who gravitate to draining damsels in distress or bad boys who won't commit, but some types of people are very good at camauflaging their true nature, while at the same time zeroing in on their chosen victim.
Take abusive men for example: These men are especially adept at recognizing the type of women they can get away with abusing. (This has been documented, but I don't have any references handy so feel free to google the topic for yourself) These men often start courting their intended victim by conducting themselves so as to give no hint to their future behaviour.
The targetted victim typically has low self esteem, is hungry for attention and affection and may have been previously groomed for abuse as a child by a parent.
Now as a victim of a bad relationship, the only way a woman can break this pattern is to overcome the personal traits that attracted her abuser in the first place and she must also overcome the debilitating effects of the relationship itself.
This is a pretty difficult task and it is not uncommon to see a women go from a very abusive relationship, to another less abusive relationship, and another. Sometimes, hopefully, she tolerates less and less abuse each time before leaving and eventually becomes strong enough that not only can she break free in the early stages of such a relationship, but in fact becomes no longer even appealing to that type of man.
In a case like this I would not blame or denegrate the victim for failing to avoid these relationships. I would just try to help them get stronger.
Sidebar: Guys don't get mad because I used abusive men as an example. I'm well aware that there are abusive women out there too! But let's face it, the vast majority of abusers, serial killers and pedophiles are men. Seriously, does testosterone make humans insane? Just wondering.
As to less criminal patterns in relationships, I would propose that it does take anywhere from 4 to 8 months to get close enough to really see who you're dating and even then you may still have the rose coloured glasses on and so reject the truth of what's in front of you. I wouldn't call that a pattern so much as infatuation. And it's pretty normal especially in those who haven't had a lot of opportunities for dating come their way. Would I blame them for this behaviour? Not really, as I'd say patience and caution come with practice.
I would also say that a lot of patterns are so common as to not be patterns at all. Everyone I know has dated several immature adults before finally finding the one who could not only "talk the talk", but also "walk the walk". Not something immediately evident and depending on how good the talking is, it may take awhile for the lack of walking to show.
Would repeat experiences with immaturity count as a pattern? I think not. I would look at that as just sorting the wheat from the chaff. Same as repeat experiences with liars, cheats, phonies, players, etc... there are lots of these types out there and they fool a lot of people, that's why they keep doing it AND getting away with it. We wouldn't have these forums if they wore tags and were easy to suss out.
So really I guess there are only a few cases as I mentioned in the beginning where I would feel "the victim" was an idiot who brought it on themselves from the get go.
ie. "look buddy stop playing the hero and getting used for your money and find a chic who can suppport herself"
OR "hey lady, wanna a good boy, then stay away from the "bad" ones, dummy!!" Duh!!
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/4/2009 2:01:47 PM |
One thing I will point out, for the sake of making some people think, is the second group, where the person is the cause of her own problematic, repeat the same behavior and actions (thus receiving the same reaction); as those people never see themselves as the initiator but as the victim.
Yup. I was up in Breckenridge with some male friends, and one of the guys said, "Why are all the women in Breck CRAZY?!" Well, *I* knew why--he's a pain in the azz!! He drives them crazy by being inconsistent and rude. Actions very rarely happen in a vacuum. This is the same thing as "You teach people how to treat you."
I always pick emotionally unavailable men. I try to CONSCIOUSLY break out of picking them, and dammit if it doesn't happen over and over again. I recently did a lot of introsepction and realized that a LOT of the guys--almost all of them--said something along the lines of "You treat me just like you treat anyone else" or "Well, you didn't seem all that involved, either." So something for ME that I have been working on is showing the emotion I have, letting myself be "out there" emotionally. It does NOT come naturally to me. | |
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/4/2009 2:05:28 PM | | Most perpetuals will never look in the mirror at themselves they will point the finger and say it's the man or girl, when in fact they are the root of the problem. Sometimes I tend to think perpetuals love destructive things, because like you said if they had any sense they would be lining up to fix "themselves". | |
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/4/2009 2:13:55 PM | I've had some damned good relationships with men and to this day, when I think back on my life I'm more likely to smile at a memory than frown.
Im the same.
However that run of luck I guess ended at the finality of my marriage.
I can't help but notice that when someone has an issue with a relationship, it seems to be that this is an issue that has popped up before for the person in previous relationships. That the person is choosing the same types of a partner over and over again all the while expecting a different result.
I dont find the same "issue"... I find the same "result"
This is how I see it...
I have a set of general "rules" that I follow when it comes to getting involved with someone.
Needless to say... just because I have those set of "rules" ... doesnt mean other people follow them.
Infact... my "rules"... are almost guaranteed by people's behavior... to not be followed cos people are people... do stupid things and arent terribly self reflective.
They want what they want and they want it NOW... with little to no concern for what they're giving ME and what they're doing to other people.
I dont want a guy who's got a current FWB... FWB IS a relationship of sorts... there's strings and ties to that person whether you like it or not.
I dont want a guy who's less than 18mths out of a LTR or marriage cos they just dont have it together.
I dont want a guy who's inlove with another woman... no great surprise
I dont want a guy who will dump someone else to be with me... if your relationship isnt working ... get OUT of it before you look for other women... it shows me you're incapable of being alone... and dont CARE what you do to your soon-to-be ex partner when I DO cos you're just as capable of doing the exact same thing to me and I have no intention of hurting accidentally or otherwise... another woman or family... just to interfere in a relationship that by all accounts could work... take a man from her that doesnt "belong" to me... to try make myself happy
I dont want a guy with anger issues towards women... no great surprise
I want a guy who loves me enough and shares the same value system so that infidelity is never an issue
I dont want a guy who thinks I need to earn his respect or barter his time for me
I dont want a guy who multiple dates... Im not competing for a man's affections and it also tells me he has nfi what he even wants
I dont want a guy who doesnt do the right thing by his children... ergo shuns his responsibilities
I dont want a guy with commitment issues... not interested in having my heart jerked around... this should be easy so dont make it so hard
etc etc etc....
None of these ^^^ are things Im not prepared to offer in return.
And honestly... HOW many men (or people in general)... do you think realistically DONT fit into those categories?
I wish men would just "stop"... STOP... get it together before they get involved with or look for anybody. BE single and ready. Completely..
Does that make me a "perpetual victim"... or those people "perpetual abusers"???
I dont have that set of criteria for nothing... I didnt just make it up... its because in my experience, in my observations... Ive NEVER seen a relationship work out of them and certainly not one thats happy
And ANY time Ive given a man benefit of the doubt when it comes to those things and consider maybe shouldnt be so harsh... because I mean... if what Im looking for doesnt exist... I should alter my criteria no? especially if I care about somebody.
I mean thats what people are... thats what people do... THEY arent going to change so I should...yes?
...it doesnt work anyways. And I hate that. I hate being right.
Im truly beginning to believe the foundation to a successful relationship with a man doesnt exist because they make themselves and the possibility not exist.
... I dont blame myself if I do think twice and get involved... but it does confirm for me... especially after 25 odd years of men.. that anyone anti-applicable to my set of "rules"... guaranteed will not.
So its a cycle. They arent going to put themselves in a place to actually be "ready"
And if I get involved its a guarantee it wont. Whats the point?
What other option is there? Be alone forever? or have a string of disasterous go-nowhere relationships with multiple men? with time between to heal so that *Im* "ready" for *them*
I dont want to be a "perpetual victim" of other people's behavior (am not sure if I agree with that label btw...)... cos its likely just as easily labelled "either people are what they are" or just a case of "sh*t happens".
Whatever way we wanna label it... what a waste of my heart... time and life. | |
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/4/2009 2:13:56 PM | The true definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and EXPECTING different results!
People that fall into this category just don't know how to break out and make different and hopefully better choices. It is ALL THEY KNOW!
THEY have chosen to be products of their environment!!!
It is a tragedy! | |
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/4/2009 2:51:40 PM | I can't help but notice that when someone has an issue with a relationship, it seems to be that this is an issue that has popped up before for the person in previous relationships.
Someone provided me with a word picture once to describe what you are talking about. It is like one of those toy train sets, where the track is set up in a circle, and the train goes around and around...and around.....and around.
Sometimes what it takes to break the cycle is to metaphorically drop a boulder onto the train tracks. First there has to be an awareness that the circular track will bring the train back to the same point each time around. Then there has to be the desire to somehow change that pattern. And then there is the necessary will and determination to do the work, even if it means messing up that rhythmic pattern of the past and laying a new track for oneself. | |
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/4/2009 3:10:13 PM | | I think of this kind of thing as akin to searching for the "heads" side of a coin, and refusing to recognize that the "tails" side is ALWAYS attached to the other side. The repeat 'victims' are after a trait of a person that is intrinsically linked to the downside they hate. They keep insisting that since it all worked out for Snow White, Cinderella, and all those people in the romantic comedies, that there must be a person who has the "heads" feature, but no "tails." | |
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/4/2009 4:13:30 PM | My theory on this is that while we are growing up and being parented, we are forming our image of self through the eyes of our parents. At the same time, the dynamics of relationships are being experienced and set using the relationships with our primary caregivers as the mold for future intimate (emotionally intimate) relationships.
If we grow up feeling loved and respected, if we encounter someone who behaves in a non-loving, disrespectful way, it is easily recognized and the relationship is terminated. There is no going back. Our love and respect for ourselves won't permit it and we learn the lessons the first time.
It seems from the forums, that many if not all people who go from one messed up relationship to another did not have a strong, secure upbringing. Is that a cause or a correlation though....I can't say but as a parent, it is irrelevant because as a parent I'm going to raise my children in a secure loving environment with healthy boundaries and age-appropriate rules enforced in a compassionate way. There will be no addictions in the daily lives of my children, there will not be angry loud voices and physical violence in my home directed towards any member of my family. I will not hurt my children physically and call it discipline. I will teach, nurture and support the development of my children.
To call oneself a victim of any relationship indicates a mind-set to me of someone who has not yet assumed responsibility for their own lives...they come off sounding powerless and led by those more powerful than they may be at the moment. There are many survivors who have broken the cycle, no insanity, of bad relationship after bad relationship.
It is only when one is willing to look inside and seek out the motivations for their own choices and behaviour that any cycle can be broken. Some will make that journey, others will martyr themselves and repeat the cycle from one relationship to the next, from one generation to the next. | |
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/4/2009 4:26:11 PM | That Division Guy nailed it with "patterns"
The thing is we are not too self aware of ourselves.
And if we fall into those "patterns" we need to look closely at ourselves
and maybe seek help.
No one willingly wants to be in a bad pattern.
They do so cus the pattern seems "normal" in some way.
For example:
A woman constantly dating an abusive guy
does so cus his abuse seems normal to her..
Maybe her Dad treated her that way which is why it "feels" normal.
Instead of changing herself to change the pattern,
She tries to change the guy.
It feels normal to her...so if he just wouldn't hit her he'd be perfect.
To date someone completely different would feel off to her.
She would feel lost and not know how to cope.
Which is why some girls date a nice guy for abit,
but then go back to the abusive ex.
Feels normal to em and they can understand that. | |
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/4/2009 4:31:35 PM |
Patterns.
Human behaviour is a consistent set of patterns.
Intuitive people recognize their patterns and break the negative ones, such as bad relationship partners.
People who don't learn from their mistakes repeat the same vicious cycle.
Of course they're blind to the situation because they keep repeating it.
Totally agree, as somewhat of a student of human behavior. Also self reflection and accountability, it takes a conscious effort to be honest with yourself and look for what it is as a pattern of behavior or possibly unmet need/desire that attracts or is attracted to the same type of person.
Many people are astute at recognizing behavior patterns in everyone else but themselves. | |
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/4/2009 4:35:26 PM |
Many people are astute at recognizing behavior patterns in everyone else but themselves.
While it may seem that way, I don't think that is the case.....so often I hear people surprised to realize they found another one just like the last....the same kind of people by the way that call themselves "victims". I think they are just as clueless about others as they are themselves.
To know me, you must know you...... | |
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| Perpetual Victims of Repeat Relationship Issues
Posted: 11/4/2009 4:36:48 PM |
Which is why some girls date a nice guy for abit,
but then go back to the abusive ex.
Feels normal to em and they can understand that.
So instead of making up a scenario where women are doing the bad picking, why don't you come up with one from your own life where YOU did the bad picking? I think THAT is what a lot of posters are pointing out--the people won't turn that microscope on THEMSELVES and see their own pattern. It's WAY easier to see what OTHER people are doing "wrong".
***And besides, if I were to go on JUST what is posted in the Forums, I'd think, "Man, a lot of women are getting abused by BFs out there!" But in my life, I have not had ONE friend--NOT ONE--who was abused by a man. I had ONE lesbian couple where a woman abused the other woman and we (friends) had to intervene. | |
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