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| all season vs all weather tires - who knew there was a difference?
Posted: 11/5/2009 12:44:44 AM | Apparently there is a fine that is being handed out to people who do not have the proper tires on their car in the winter. Not such a bad thing.
However, proper tires do not include "all season" tires and that is what I always have on my vehicles.
People often mistake "all season" tires for "all weather" tires. Myself included.
I know I have "all season" tires but I am not sure if they are "all weather".
"All weather" or "winter" tires have a little symbol on them (snowflake inside an outline of a mountain) and that is what they may be looking for on spontaneous road checks. I'll be checking my tires for this symbol.
I've never heard of this before. Is this a new money grab or has this been around for a while?
(I would provide the link to the article where I read about this but I can't find it anymore.) | |
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| all season vs all weather tires - who knew there was a difference?
Posted: 11/5/2009 1:03:04 AM | People in Vancouver and Victoria tend to drive around with improper tires for the season. The rest of the country needs, if not requires all-season or winter tires in the winter.
http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/2008/02/06/your_winter_tire_questions_ans/
Q. Are "all weather" tires winter tires?
A. The all weather tire is another designation that’s thrown around especially by a couple of brand names. It’s a tire that’s just soft enough or just pliable enough to qualify as a winter tire that’s in the compound of the tread blocks, but designed to be used all year long, more like an all season. The problem is that it’s not perfect at either thing. It’s still too hard to be fully optimized as a winter tire. You’re better off getting a pure winter tire.
Also the comment below it goes with your original post:
I would like further clarification of your designation of 'All Weather' tires. My understanding is that there is only one brand, Nokian, that produces a true 'All Weather' tire. This is due to transport Canada's severe winter weather emblem stamp of approval on the sidewall, therefore designating the tire as a "true winter tire" as you replied. This approval, combined with a mileage warranty from the manufacturer, is why their tire is designated 'all weather' and has nothing to do with the tire being inferior to a "true" winter tire -it is a true winter tire! The 'other' manufacturer's that you referred to as designating their tires as 'all weather' have no severe service approval from transport Canada as I understand. True? Posted by: Eli Johnson | Feb 6, 08 11:16 PM
Live anywhere east of Vancouver, and you'll regret not having winter tires in the winter when it snows. | |
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| all season vs all weather tires - who knew there was a difference?
Posted: 11/5/2009 1:21:55 AM | Well the ticket is only given out in certain conditions . its snowing and you get into a accident , and the cause of the accident is your all season tires or the lack of tread on your snow tires . and if you pass a sign when its snowing in BC and it reads( Use Winter Tires or Carry Chains Beyond This Point) example
http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/publications/Circulars/All/T_Circ/2008/t04-08.pdf
From the BC Motor Vehicle act
208 (1) For the purpose of this section, "winter tire" means a tire that is
(a) advertised or represented by its manufacturer or a person in the business of selling tires to be a tire intended principally for winter use, and that provides, or is designed to provide, adequate traction in snow or mud; and
(b) in the condition respecting tread wear and other particulars the regulations prescribe.
(2) The Minister of Transportation and Highways may, by public notice or by placing signs, prohibit vehicles from being driven or operated on a highway that are not equipped with chains, winter tires or sanding devices, or a combination of these the minister considers adequate and necessary in view of prevailing road conditions.
(3) For the purposes of a prosecution under this section, the onus is on the defendant to prove that a tire alleged not to be a winter tire is in fact a winter tire.
So if you have a front wheel drive you have to buy 4 snow tires . Just a little side note before front wheel drives came out , people use to put there snow tires on around this time of year , In Vancouver you say :P: But then it was only 2 . rear wheel dive cars. And no the law has been around for decades, plus a couple of others . And no this is not a money grab its your safety. Drive safe . its like that saying you can pay me now or PAY ME LATER $$$$$$$ Oh and don't forget a charged cell phone and the number to the BCAA or auto club /towing service ............ | |
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| all season vs all weather tires - who knew there was a difference?
Posted: 11/5/2009 1:30:45 AM | Some people use all season tires throughout the year, winter included. I have always felt safer sticking winter tires on my car during the snowy months & have done this since I started driving in snow in the late 80's.
I've always used four winter tires on my vehicles but someone said this was now mandatory. I was also advised to purchase four identical tires with the same tread pattern to keep the traction of all the tires uniform. Apparently, using a different pair of tires on the front & the rear could cause braking & steering problems.
Many people who grew up in colder climates where they had to drive in a lot more snow than we get here, claim to know how to drive in the snow properly so they don't need winter tires. However, I have been in the vehicle with some of these people when they lost control & skidded or couldn't get unstuck. But even after near misses, once they had recovered from the initial scare, these 'die-hards' still insisted they were good with all season tires & didn't need winters.
After seeing cars skidding across the road & sliding into other cars, trees, ditches, rolled over, etc., I'd rather play it safe & stick to four winter tires or if the road conditions are treacherous, I'll stay home under a warm blanky with a mug of hot chocolate instead. | |
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| all season vs all weather tires - who knew there was a difference?
Posted: 11/5/2009 9:17:16 PM | You also have to remember that you don't put your winter tires on your car until the temperature gets to 7 degrees. If they are put on any sooner than that it will wreck the tread and they won't work like they should when they are required in the snow.
I use all season myself and will walk if there is too much snow or as on the island here too much slush. All season tires don't handle well in slush. And if I do happen to head out in the car I drive people crazy as I don't go over 50k, easier to handle when or if the car starts to slide.  | |
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| all season vs all weather tires - who knew there was a difference?
Posted: 11/5/2009 9:26:38 PM | | For the past 30 years living in BC I have used All Seasons but this year decided to buy Snows and am glad I did. There is quite a difference in the driving. I have only driven on wet roads as yet but the connector will give up some smowy roads soon. | |
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| all season vs all weather tires - who knew there was a difference?
Posted: 11/6/2009 6:11:19 AM | I wonder if one day, the tire makers will come up with a tire for the lowermainland area. Because of where we are down here,,,there are certain things here that are unique to driving. Pouring rain and warm one day,,,,then the next,,,, -2 and slushy white shiat all over the place. Three days later,,,,more monsoons,,,,and warm again. Temps play a big part in the tire as one poster stated. Driving around when it's warmer is not so good for the winter tires.
Personally,,,,and yes,,,,I KNOW it's against the law,,,,my four all seasons at $275 a piece have not failed me nor my truck. And no,,,,I don't throw it into 4X4 everytime a flake falls outta the sky. In my journerys around this province, I have had a foot of snowfall in late May/early June,,,,and in early November over 2 inches of rain falling quickly ( looks outside).
I will argue,,,,driving skills are relative to this argument of snows versus "all seasons". I will also argue,,,,,liability and the word "sue" are also top on the list. And last but not least,,,the intelligence of some out there also plays a very big part.(think of what you see down here when the snow hits) In saying that,,,,if I actually lived in a place where we had a consistent "true" winter,,,I would have snows on by the November. Since I don't,,,,,,,I won't. | |
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| all season vs all weather tires - who knew there was a difference?
Posted: 11/6/2009 6:33:49 AM | I think this is a funny one because from personal experience I can say that what matters most is your driving skills, not your tires or if you have 4 wheel drive.
I personally drive a large, rear wheel drive car that is the perfect "donut" machine. I love when the snow flies because I can Starsky & Hutch the hell out of my big old boat.
I was taught how to drive in the snow with an old rear wheel pickup truck with almost bald tires. MY father insisted I learn how to control the vehicle in the worst of conditions and how to adjust my driving patterns when in shitty conditions.
Some basics are;
Always allow about 3 - 4 times the normal stopping distance. Basically stay way the hell back of the car in front of you.
Drive slower. Really pretty simple but people seem to be in a rush to do everything.
Buy an inexpensive set of chains and have them in your vehicle at all times.
Use your cars gearing to slow down.. do not try and brake hard, drop your car into a lower gear and go slow.
Observe the conditions in front of you. If you are facing a hill, and it has vehicles spinning out all over it, wait until you have a clear path and remain at a slow steady speed so your tires don't spin.
Plan ahead. Leave early and make sure you have lots of gas in your car, you may be stuck idle for long periods and the last thing you need is to run out of gas.
OH... and I should add. Yes it is helpful if you have a good set of winter tires. They still don't guarantee you're not an idiot behind the wheel, but they can be helpful | |
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| all season vs all weather tires - who knew there was a difference?
Posted: 11/6/2009 6:51:48 AM | Just a reminder...
front wheel drives have to have all four snows.
If you only have 2 on them now, put the old ones on the front and the new snows on the back.
Four wheel drives can have 2 on the rear, but again, better with four snows.
And rear wheel drives can have just 2 snows on the rear.
Wrangler Territory are a good example of an all weather tire, bearing the snow flake.
(Really beefy)
Good Year Nordics and General Altimax, both winter tires, both can be studded, but only brand new.
Michellin X Ice are not really available in ever size any more...but if you can get them, do.
be safe.....the police stop everyone without thr right tires at Alice Lake and will turn you away without proper tires and chains. | |
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| all season vs all weather tires - who knew there was a difference?
Posted: 11/6/2009 10:28:04 AM | I get mildly annoyed when people laugh at me for putting winter tires on my car down here. Do you remember last winter? What about the winter before that? Yea, I do. Just because we don't get "a lot" of snow the whole season, doesn't mean people shouldn't put winters on their car. You *can* wear them for more than 1 seasons; I'm on season 2 of these ones.
They handle a lot better than the all-seasons I have on right now, which are fine until the temperature dips below 7 degrees; then I start to notice they don't handle as nicely.
Your life rides on your tires, so whether we get 1 week or 4 months of snow, I'm not taking any chances. I put winters on b/c I'd rather have more stopping power when I need to. They've already saved my ass once when someone, last winter, was going too fast and couldn't stop for a red light when I was already going through on my green. Had I had all-seasons on, I would have plowed right into his driver's side door as he slid like Bambi-on-ice right infront of me. My winters stopped me short of him without skidding or slipping.
And, I have a 2 wheel drive car - but I have 4 winter tires. I'm a good driver, but it doesn't matter HOW good of a driver you are - when you hit ice with all-seasons, you're at a major disadvantage to someone who has winters.
ETA: It's not that I'm a bad driver either; I'm not, I'm protecting myself against the OTHER drivers who a) have bald tires b) have all seasons c) don't know how to drive according to the road conditions or d) are idiots. | |
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| all season vs all weather tires - who knew there was a difference?
Posted: 11/8/2009 2:41:05 AM | It's really hard to get true snow tires for street motorcycles, and a lot more work to swap them - often $50 labour for a tire change.
ED BEAR
I just get the best rain/cold weather rubber I can and don't go up roads marked "chains or winter tires only." | |
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| all season vs all weather tires - who knew there was a difference?
Posted: 11/8/2009 11:10:49 AM | I work part time regularly, as a professional driver and as such because the employer maintains a very high standard for employees, I have been required to attend considerable qualified instruction on all aspects of safe driving. I know this thread was about tires but as winter driving is discussed, some related things are very important to safe winter driving.
There has been quite a bit of good information here and there is no argument about proper tires to suit road conditions, take your time, slow down and maintain a safe following distance.
Driver experience and ability are big factors. Some people would manage to spin out and get stuck if they were driving a D9 bulldozer.
Narrower tires, even of identical tread pattern have less tendancy to toboggan in snow.
In slippery snow and on icy roads, as they come from the factory weight-wise, shifting down in front wheel drive vehicles, and any 4 wheel drive vehicle(especially if engaged in 4 wheel drive) can put you in an uncontrolled spin very easily. A big key to safer handling is improved weight distribution/ratio between front and rear tires even if all 4 tires are the exact same kind.
That is the reason you see so many SUV's on their roof in the median out in the valley when there is snow on the freeway, over confidence in 4WD & travelling in the hammer lane.
You will certainly get going, keep going and climb hills better with front wheel drive under the weight of the engine and transmission and with 4WDs but even with 4 wheel high tech traction balancing 4WD alone is not a solution when it comes to slowing down safely or going down the other side of the hill and frontWD can be as tricky too. 4WDs are made to "go better", not to "slow better". Smart drivers always add weight in 2WD pickup boxes over or behind the rear axle and the same for 4WD & frontWD. Unlike All Wheel Drive(AWD), for many 4WD's, they were not made to travel regularly/continuously in 4WD as it wears unnecessarily on the drive line components. Slowing down in a poorly weight balanced, engaged 4WD on even moderately icy conditions it is easier to lose control in many makes and models than in only 2WD mode.
For engaged 4WD and front WD vehicles they are all pretty well heavily weighted on the front wheels which is not ideal for slowing down on icy roads because of created relative excess front end drag which allows the back end to want to pass the front end and this is commonly the physics of spinning out of control. On a very slippery, maybe slightly wet, icy surface with both frontWD and engaged 4WD travelling at speed under 40Kmh, that would probably be no problem for older rearWD, ....simply taking your foot off the accelerator and nothing else can cause a frontWD or engaged 4WD to slide all over the road out of control. With either of these types of vehicles on very slippery roads do not take your foot quickly off the accelerator without first shifting into neutral and using only the brakes to slow down, which application you can control and do it smoother. Smooth control is the way. Abrupt action of engine compression to effect braking can easily cause tires to break traction and slide. Again it helps here not to follow to close.
We are told in instruction, under very slippery conditions, that shifting into neutral with these vehicles and only using the brakes to control speed downhill, when slowing down considerably or stopping, improves handling control. Even with rearWD automatic transmission in gear at low speed, below about 20Kmh, the idle speed of the engine is still fast enough to be applying driving force to the wheels and works against the brakes you are applying to the rear wheels, thus more drag/braking for the front and possibility of back end sliding to one side or over riding your stop. With a standard transmission in any vehicle, you quite naturally do this by stepping on the clutch when coming to a complete stop.
Added weight on the rear wheels will improve stopping control for nearly every vehicle but particularly for these 3 types. I load sacks of sand in the back of my Jeep 4WD and just 2 or 3 hundred lb. is fairly compact and makes a world of difference. It is cheap at any building supplies store and can be spread for traction if needed. Just remember that although any added weight including passengers, most probably adds traction and control, ...because of greater inertia force(more moving weight), it also adds to the distance needed to stop.
If that helps at least one person, it was worth the time writng. | |
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| all season vs all weather tires - who knew there was a difference?
Posted: 11/8/2009 11:33:05 AM | | ^^^Very good information. When I still had my pick-up I used to get old inner tubes, fill them with sand, and lay them right over the wheel wells. This winter is going to be a new experience for me because I'm driving a different vehicle after many years of driving a Honda Civic. With the Civic I never had any trouble because I had good tires, and a set of chains for it. I now have a Honda Element, manual five speed. It has two good tires, and two that need to be replaced, and I don't have a set of chains for it, yet. I am already aware that it's going to be different to drive in the snow because it is a bigger, heavier vehicle with more weight over the front tires (thus making stopping more difficult). I've already found that when it rains really hard I spin the tires when starting from a complete stop. Anyone have any experience with how this vehicle handles in snow? | |
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| all season vs all weather tires - who knew there was a difference?
Posted: 11/8/2009 6:30:23 PM |
Front wheel drives have to have all four snows.
If you only have 2 on them now, put the old ones on the front and the new snows on the back.
Four wheel drives can have 2 on the rear, but again, better with four snows.
And rear wheel drives can have just 2 snows on the rear.
This is bad advice. Never do this. It is old school thinking and dangerous. Any tire shop owner operator will tell you the same.
Here is a useful link.
http://www.drivesmartbc.ca/equipment/two-or-four-winter-tires | |
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| all season vs all weather tires - who knew there was a difference?
Posted: 11/12/2009 4:53:38 PM | ^^^^^^^ Have you been told today????? Huh??? Huh?????
Snow this early in Novemeber is not unheard of,,,,,but that doesn't mean I gotta like it. I don't care how pretty it looks and how many snowmen can be made!!! Doesn't belong down in the lowermainland until Dec 20th. | |
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| all season vs all weather tires - who knew there was a difference?
Posted: 11/12/2009 5:20:45 PM | Relax folks, the forecast for the lower mainland does not mention snow.
See for yourself:
http://www.weatheroffice.gc.ca/city/pages/bc-74_metric_e.html
http://www.theweathernetwork.com/weather/cabc0308
Fortunately the forecast for here is similar, and though it will be chilly it would appear I can even manage a bike ride in the afternoon. 
I am hoping KS's bra will arrive here in time, so I can keep my ears warm. | |
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| all season vs all weather tires - who knew there was a difference?
Posted: 11/12/2009 6:47:18 PM | For the ultimate weapon for winter driving get yourself a set of these
http://www.staunproducts.com/benefits.php
Regardless of what tire you are using, if you are stuck, airing down your drive wheels will get you going 95% of the time.
Just stay below 30 kph and do not spin.
One Christmas Eve I was feeling love for my fellow man (yea I know what you are thinking) and spent 3 hours at the big hill on HWY 10 before Cloverdale teaching about 35 drivers how to air down after they got stuck. Everyone got over the hill with out a tow truck.
12 hugs
4 kisses
1 bottle of Crown
and a granny telling me I am going to heaven made for a pretty cool night. | |
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| all season vs all weather tires - who knew there was a difference?
Posted: 11/12/2009 6:53:52 PM | | heres a tip to those with 4x4's, suv's or cuv's. nokian tires, which i would say are the best performing winter snow tires, have a style of tire called vativa. this tire is an all terrain tire, but is sipped on the treads making it an amazing snow tire. it does not however have the snowflake, but it is recognized by icbc as being one of the best, so your claim does not sit on the fact that your tire has or doesnt have the snowflake. i have a set of these on my pathfinder and they are amazing. not very loud at all on dry, great on wet and amazing on snow. i pull out cars all the time without the need of tracks or studs. the great thing is you can use them year round without having 2 sets of tires. well, hope this helps someone. they make car tires as well, so if anyone is going to buy a set, buy some tires that were developed by some swedes! they know their stuff! | |
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| all season vs all weather tires - who knew there was a difference?
Posted: 11/12/2009 11:42:50 PM |
Doesn't belong down in the lowermainland until Dec 20th
Don't you mean Dec 24th?
I just like to "BELIEVE"....even though Bella will get mad at me
I can hear you! 
I've never put snow tires on my vehicle, but I do have four wheel drive, does that count?  | |
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| all season vs all weather tires - who knew there was a difference?
Posted: 11/14/2009 5:52:49 AM | Living in Montreal for 36 years, I learned that:
1. Snow tires are not optional in snow.
2. Rear-wheel drive beats FWD any day and twice on Sundays.
3. Automatics need to go to neutral to come to a stop, particularly on hard-pack and downhills.
Living in Vancouver for another 19 years, I can add:
4. Westerners seem to think thin, soft slush over blacktop is "black ice." What the rest of Canada means when they say "black ice" is a transparent, thick, hard, smooth mirror layer over blacktop. Total rude awakening.
ED BEAR | |
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| all season vs all weather tires - who knew there was a difference?
Posted: 11/17/2009 6:37:52 PM | I had the misfortune of needing to take my vehicle to the shop for repairs today . The shop sells tires too so thinking of this discussion I asked the service manager if he had any literature from ICBC that explained their position on the matter of and differentiating between "All Season", "All Weather" and "Snow" tires.
He explained that ICBC has been very cagey about this issue. If you are involved in a motor vehicle accident ICBC puts the onus on the police. The police officer has the discretion to declare if your tires are, or are not, adequate for the driving conditions, regardless if the tires are rated "All Season", "All Weather" or "Snow" tires,
I took at look at those Nokia "Vativa" tires mounted on my vehicle. They are "All Season" and have a "M+S" label (Mud & Snow), but I did not find a snowflake symbol that would rate them as snow tires.
* * * * *
He raised another interesting issue, one I hadn't encountered before.
All new vehicles are equipped with wheels that have a required tire-pressure sensing device inside the tire. The sensor that can activate a "low tire pressure" warning light on the dashboard. In some models, if the warning is activated the vehicle's top speed is limited.
It no longer makes sense to have just the one set of wheels and have the tires changed to adjust to season. When the tire is removed there is a 30% chance the sensor (approx, $200) will be damaged in the process.
This means that motorists wishing to have two sets of tires will be facing the cost of buying the wheels and sensors too, not just the tires. | |
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