| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/5/2009 11:08:09 PM | I just heard a report that most personnel at FT Hood are no allowed to carry firearms. They are stored in secure areas. It seems to me that if we trust these people to carry firearms in Iraq, we should trust them within their own base at the very least.
If someone had a firearm, to use in self defense, I have no doubt the gun man would have been disabled early on. What do you think? | |
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/5/2009 11:51:47 PM | Surely Fort Hood is exempt, as a military base, from any state-laws in this regard.
Take this up with the military. Nobody here has a "vote," as it were.
And anyway, do you KNOW how long it took to take him down? Was it minutes or seconds? Recent reports are suggesting that some casualties might have actually been the result of "friendly fire," which MIGHT mean that shooting exchanges happened pretty quickly. But as yet, these things are far too unclear to begin making judgments about what ACTUALLY happened....and/or political capital.
What happened in Fort Hood today is ghastly. It's about one guy losing his shit and killing a bunch of people who shouldn't have died that way. As of right now, that's ALL that really matters....AND it's all we really know. | |
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/6/2009 7:08:51 AM | It's funny how people who are against gun control always seem to find the most outlandish situations to justify owning guns, yet they ignore the fact that in ALL western countries that have gun control, the murder rate is far lower than in the one western country that doesn't have gun control (the U.S.).
Here in Montreal (population almost 3 million) we had about 4o murders last year. Sometimes it goes up to 60 murders a year, but never into the several hundreds that similar sized cities in the U.S. have. But go ahead, let every one have a gun (or maybe 2 or 3). In fact it's almost Christmas - buy someone a gun for Christmas (and don't forget the ammo)!!! Because we all know "guns don't kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do too (if they have a gun).” | |
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/6/2009 7:22:29 AM | This situation has nothing to do with the effectiveness of gun control.
A lot of innocent people died and it's horrible.
Until anyone really knows what happened, I don't think it's fair to make judgments. | |
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/6/2009 7:22:58 AM | | Got to love American Jihad....Kind of scary knowing that a man capable of doing what he did against Americans was counseling American soldiers...Think about that for a minute these kids were already messed up psychologically and this nut job was charged with helping them all the while harboring hate for Americans for what we were doing in Iraq and Afghanistan.... | |
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/6/2009 7:25:54 AM |
If someone had a firearm, to use in self defense, I have no doubt the gun man would have been disabled early on. What do you think?
Due to the training of the people usually on a military base I think that carrying firearms probably should be an exception for Ft. Hood or other military bases.
Personel on military bases ae a bit different in their training as to fire arms.
After one of the college campus shootings I think some states and college campuses where re looking at their gun laws. At least on a military base we are talking about a place where the vast majority of the people have been trained how to use fire arms the right way. | |
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/6/2009 7:34:39 AM |
Got to love American Jihad....Kind of scary knowing that a man capable of doing what he did against Americans was counseling American soldiers...Think about that for a minute these kids were already messed up psychologically and this nut job was charged with helping them all the while harboring hate for Americans for what we were doing in Iraq and Afghanistan....
Right, and you dont think that it could possibly be because this guy just spent the last 4 odd years being completely immersed in what these people were going through and it overwhelmed him? Who is helping the helpers? It is possible to hate what a country does and not hate the citizens of the country. | |
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/6/2009 7:51:15 AM | I agree it is possible..but I think shooting 43 and killing 7 of them shows a level of HATE....kind of scary also that we have people that feel that way about the Wars serving in our Military....makes you wonder about Friendly Fire deaths....
We dont know anything for sure yet but if he really posted what they say he did on the internet then this is an example of American Jihad..I am glad he didnt die he doesnt deserve to die thinking that he is going to be rewarded for what he did... | |
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/6/2009 8:51:23 AM | Msg 6:
This situation has nothing to do with the effectiveness of gun control.
But the OPs view is that
Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control ........ If someone had a firearm, to use in self defense, I have no doubt the gun man would have been disabled early on. What do you think?
So the thread is about gun control and not about how tragic the situation at Fort Hood is. That goes without saying. Ergo my posting in Msg 5 | |
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/6/2009 10:25:00 AM | What the heck is going on in our country --- Now we have a shooter loose in an Orlando office building.
Orlando office building gunman on the looseORLANDO, Fla. – Officials said at least eight people were hurt in a shooting at a downtown office building Friday and a gunman was on the loose.
People streamed out of the high-rise building around lunchtime and some told local television stations they had barricaded themselves inside their offices.
Orlando Fire Department District Chief Michael Droege said an unknown number of people were still in the building and could be injured. He said the SWAT team was still trying to pull people out.
"The building is not secure now," he said. "It's still unfolding."
Orlando police were searching for an armed man wearing a light blue polo shirt and jeans, said Orange County Sheriff's Spokesman Jim Solomons, whose department was called in for backup.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091106/ap_on_re_us/us_orlando_office_shooting [/quote} | |
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/6/2009 11:32:05 AM | This incident truly saddens me and it led me to think what possibly could have stopped this tragedy.
It seems that this man was about to be deployed which he was resisting and said he did not think it was proper for him to kill fellow Muslims.
The locking the firearms up policy is imposed by the Military not state law. Texas allows people to carry firearms with a permit. | |
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/6/2009 11:40:37 AM |
If someone had a firearm, to use in self defense, I have no doubt the gun man would have been disabled early on. What do you think?
The incident has nothing to do with gun control. My son is on an airforce base and is allowed to own personal weapons.
It's not that they are not allowed personal weapons...it's that they don't carry military issue weapons as a course of daily activity.
Can you imagine the mess that would have been if everyone started shooting? They were mostly military personnel. There would have been one bad guy...and dozens of mistaken one's shot in the confusion.
This was their home! Who is going to go to the doctors office "packin'" for self defense.
I can install the latest home security system that exists to protect my family. I can keep a loaded gun in my bed table.
If my SO decided to stab me in my sleep...it's all for not.
He could have been locked up for his comments on the internet. But then we might just as well throw the entire Bill of Rights and the Constitution in the trash because we had a friggin' nut job doing that which they do best.
Edit
It seems that this man was about to be deployed which he was resisting and said he did not think it was proper for him to kill fellow Muslims.
NO! That is nothing but BS. He was a psychologist that had gotten hundreds of thousands of free government education. They were not going to hand him a weapon and fight. He was going there to aid our service people in his capacity.
He joined in peacetime thinking the would not actually have to do anything but suck off the teat of the US Government.
When he was asked to actually give something back...he suddenly became a conscientious objector and freaked the hell out.
Period
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/6/2009 11:51:11 AM | it's that they don't carry military issue weapons as a course of daily activity.
They are not allowed to carry firearms when on the base except for drills, and training. MPs of course are the exception.
Can you imagine the mess that would have been if everyone started shooting? They were mostly military personnel. There would have been one bad guy...and dozens of mistaken one's shot in the confusion.
I come from a military family. I have confidence that the soldiers would know who the shooter was and disable him quickly. | |
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/6/2009 12:09:11 PM | Pirateheaven you are very mistaken. The simple fact is this issue has been researched and tested many times. Contrary to the popular opinion free firearms cause more injuries then less. It adds more confusion and distraction for the responding parties. In very few cases someone with a concealed or free weapon has been able to take down an agressing party before additional responders gather into the confusion but it is VERY rare.
It would be wonderful to believe in the days of the old west where the good guys wear white and the bad guys wear black and everyone knows who to shoot. The modern firefight is far from so easily distinguished and failure to have witnessed the initial shot makes everyone with a weapon the possible target and you have on average less then 3 seconds to determine who you are supposed to shoot of those people assuming you evenknow who is armed..etc etc. Its gets very messy very quickly. From Bank jobs, through street firefights we have seen time and again unmarked officers getting shot from failure to identify while the actual criminal's escape etc.
Further military personnel aren't trained to know who a shooter is perse only the source and to supress... not a good way to limit casualties. MP's and SP's are so trained and so they are given weapons. | |
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/6/2009 12:26:37 PM |
The simple fact is this issue has been researched and tested many times. Contrary to the popular opinion free firearms cause more injuries then less.
What do you mean by free? | |
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/6/2009 12:31:01 PM | The simple fact is this issue has been researched and tested many times. Contrary to the popular opinion free firearms cause more injuries then less.
What do you mean by free? Are you referring to CCWs?
I know that CCW permits have reduced crime and there are impeccable studies that back that up.
John Lott thoroughly studied this issue in his landmark book "More Guns, Less Crime"
http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/493636.html
Gary Kleck also did similar studies
Kleck, Gary. 1991. Point Blank: Guns and Violence in America . Hawthorne, N.Y.:Aldine de Gruyter. Winner of the Michael J. Hindelang Award of the American Society of Criminology.
Clayton Cramer http://www.claytoncramer.com/scholarly/shall-issue.html#toc
http://www.claytoncramer.com/scholarly/shall-issue.html#c22
Firearms are used in self defense in the US over 2 million times a year and firearms save 50-75 lives for every life taken with a firearm.
http://www.gunsandcrime.org/suter-fa.html
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/6/2009 12:37:54 PM |
I come from a military family. I have confidence that the soldiers would know who the shooter was and disable him quickly.
It sounds like they did that very thing. I can tell you that it takes very little time to shoot 50 to 100 rounds with what he had. I could do it is about 2 to 3 minutes and I am not a military trained officer.
Don't we all love the Tuesday morning quarterbacks?
I'll bet you would have had him down in seconds with your Vulcan shoulder pinch thingy. | |
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/6/2009 1:24:34 PM | Msg 18
Firearms are used in self defense in the US over 2 million times a year and firearms save 50-75 lives for every life taken with a firearm.
If that's the case, then let's give a gun to every baby that's born. Soon will be saving so many people that no one will be getting killed guns. Problem solved!!
But again, I ask the question - how come the murder rate is so much lower in countries that have gun control than in the U.S. that doesn't have gun control? | |
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/6/2009 1:29:58 PM | I only came on here to write a memorial thread and make sure there was no politics,and saw this thread already here.I don't really want to go into politics,I see how any person ,anywhere, that is going to go nuts, will be a threat to all the innocent people around him,whether as with this idiot that shot or had he not had a gun and driven a troop vehicle through the wall of that building,he was a unstable ticking bomb not matter what form of weapon he had at his disposal.It was his insane intent that was the threat,and he chose a gun to take out his insanity on a lot of innocent people !
My heart goes out to all the people hurt and those killed ,the brave soldiers ,the civilians and the scores of family members and friends that are now victims also.I'm going to lay down this symbolic rose and then leave this thread ! | |
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/6/2009 1:41:39 PM | [quotr]My heart goes out to all the people hurt and those killed ,the brave soldiers ,the civilians and the scores of family members and friends that are now victims also.I'm going to lay down this symbolic rose and then leave this thread ![/quoye]
Amen | |
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/6/2009 1:54:19 PM |
Don't we all love the Tuesday morning quarterbacks?
I'll bet you would have had him down in seconds with your Vulcan shoulder pinch thingy
I don't want to make this about me. I am aghast that we do not trust soldiers to carry sidearms at the base especially in this age of terrorism. We trust police officers, why not soldiers?
My condolences and prayers go out the the affected families. | |
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/6/2009 1:55:27 PM |
But again, I ask the question - how come the murder rate is so much lower in countries that have gun control than in the U.S. that doesn't have gun control?
You are not likely going to find an answer to this when you equate gun control and murder rates. The fact of the matter...IMO...is that most of the weapons used in murders are those that exist outside of the laws that currently regulate firearms.
These people are not...for the most part...using legally registered firearms. Taking away these legally registered firearms will only affect those that are least likely to use them in a crime.
This guy didn't use an assault weapon. He used handguns...which, unless I am mistaken...is legal in your country. I'm pretty sure that members of your military would have some latitude on the types of weapons they can own and shoot for recreation.
I don't think gun control...especially in this case...and in many of the cases of gun related crimes is an answer. | |
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| Ft Hood Incident Highlights Dangers of Gun Control
Posted: 11/6/2009 3:16:11 PM |
But again, I ask the question - how come the murder rate is so much lower in countries that have gun control than in the U.S. that doesn't have gun control?
The US has plenty of gun control. There are already thousands of gun control laws on the books.
Even before England banned firearms their violent crime rates were lower. However, violent crime has skyrocketed in England since the ban. For the first time in history their violent crime rates surpass those of the US. | |
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