| Problems with ex's church
Posted: 11/7/2009 6:37:24 AM | | Look my ex and i have a pretty friendly divorce.He loves his kids and for the most part is a good guy but not good for me.My problem is when we were married we were part of this church that told us we were bad parents.The church told us to spank our kids and allowed a church member to grab my 5 year old at the time by the arm and scream in his face.I explained to them that no person has the right to lay thier hands on my child.The Pastor told me the church he grew up in everyone in the church was allowed to disipline everyones children. I have no problem with an adult telling my child to take a time out or telling me they are misbehaveing. When i told the pastor that my husband had lost his temper and used to much force in spanking and was not allowed to use that kind of punishment on my children the pastor told me he was beaten by his parents and he survived. So we left that church. The problem is now my ex is back at said church and wants to take the kids there. What do i do? I don't want to ruin this friendly relationship with my ex but i feel that the church is not a safe place for my children. HELP! | |
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| Problems with ex's church
Posted: 11/7/2009 7:54:35 AM | I've heard of those kind of churches. I don't know if there is somewhere that they can be reported. Child abuse is still against the law.
Someone doing that to my children would not sit well with me no matter how friendly terms we were on. I would even confidentially seek the advice of a lawyer. | |
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| Problems with ex's church
Posted: 11/7/2009 8:07:54 AM | Who cares about the friendly relationship with your ex in this situation.
Get a lawyer and see what your rights are in terms of requesting supervised visitation, etc. | |
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| Problems with ex's church
Posted: 11/7/2009 10:09:19 AM | Send them to that church with a note from mom to the pastor stating that the first son of b*tch who dares to touch your children will have assault and child abuse charges pressed and their pants sued off.
You'll see how mellow they are after that. | |
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| Problems with ex's church
Posted: 11/7/2009 11:11:29 AM | | This is better then what Father Mic Rapes-a-lot does, but there is no way I would let that happen to my kids. Teaching kids to let any adult disipline then, I bet some might be giving them the same kind of disipline that Father Mic Rapes-a-lot gives the alter boys. Even if that is not what is going on who wants their kid to think any adult has the right to do about what every they want. What a mind Fu%k. Religon sucks. | |
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| Problems with ex's church
Posted: 11/7/2009 4:12:45 PM | Go with them, problem solved. Yup, that was flip, but you have two choices, you can either go with them or ask your ex to please find a church that you are both comfortable with. But you really cannot force him to do anything.
We believe in the village principal in raising the children, if someone is misbehaving the adult in the area should correct it, verbally and appropriately. I think what you describe is wrong but I also had an acquaintance through my kids' school. Her kids were brats and she had a heart attack when someone said anything to one of her kids and not because anyone normal would have thought the Sunday school teacher was out of line; she just believed that the person over-stepped. Now, this makes no sense to me, how do you expect someone who is a volunteer to begin with to try to teach a class when someone is allowed to totally disrupt everything without any type of reprimand?
And seriously, if you don't trust your ex to watch out properly for your children, go with them. Talk to their Sunday school teacher and tell them that you understand the church's policies but that you do not want anyone physically touching your children in a disciplinary fashion and to get you if there is a problem. Your ex just as you are, is free to do whatever he wishes with the children including taking them to church. You could take him to court to prevent it but I doubt seriously the court would intervene. | |
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| Problems with ex's church
Posted: 11/7/2009 5:26:49 PM | Get it in your custody papers that your kids are NOT to be allowed in that church OR to have any corporal punishment to be used.
Then get your local CPS (child protective services) involved if he violates that order.
If your now EX "loses his temper" again.. get monitored visitation.
It's a fight.. but a necessary one. | |
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| Problems with ex's church
Posted: 11/7/2009 5:43:36 PM | | I would tell him he is more then welcome to take the children to the church of his choosing, but the first time one of your children comes home and tells you someone has laid a hand on them you will be calling the police and whichever child protection agency is in your area. | |
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| Problems with ex's church
Posted: 11/13/2009 7:14:16 AM | Telling your ex that you'd like him to find another chuch probably isn't really going to work........he'd think you're trying to control him... however, taking control is needed here because if this church is allowing/condoning this for your children it is safe to assume that it is happening to all the children in the church.
So if I had this dilemna......
1) Do as 1kindman4u suggested get the courts involved......did your state assign the kids a "Law Guardian" or something similar duuring the divorce ......if so talk to him or go in front of the judge and explain your concerns.....they are obligated to protect them kids foremost ...the court should issue a court order forbidding him to take the children to said church while they look into the matter.
2) As for the other childen.....I'd discuss this matter with the authorities, (Child Protective Services, Police, etc.).....hopefully they will also look into your concerns.....they may require you to sign a complaint.
3) The Pastor sounds like he has all his sh*t in one sock, but lost the sock......is the church under a Bishop (or similar) that the Pastor has to answer to......if so contact them.....find out what their views are on disiplining a child.....discuss your concerns...
4) You could always go public with your concerns as a last resort.....churches today are very sensitive to that.......this would be my last resort....
Good luck | |
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| Problems with ex's church
Posted: 11/13/2009 7:35:40 AM |
The church told us to spank our kids and allowed a church member to grab my 5 year old at the time by the arm and scream in his face.I explained to them that no person has the right to lay thier hands on my child.The Pastor told me the church he grew up in everyone in the church was allowed to disipline everyones children.
Verbally helping steer a child into appropriate behavior is normal in any custodial environment, be it church, school, a neighbor's house, etc.
But as a member of a Christian church and a student of the Bible, I can assure you that if a pastor grabbed my child in a physically violent kind of way, he would never do it a second time as I would raise HELL like they'd never seen on that property before. If the head pastor stood his ground, I would leave the church for good and file a police report to assure a proper paper trail.
I will turn the other cheek for offenses against me all day long. But anyone manhandling my son is in instant deep doodoo. The only situation where that wouldn't be the case was if physical force was needed to stop kids physically fighting, which my son does not do.
Get your kids out of that church. They are allowed to share their beliefs about corporal punishment. But they are not allowed to implement it without authorization. If your ex is authorizing it but you object, as one of two legal custodians of your child, you certainly have strong say in the matter.
Safety of your child comes before friendship with your ex. Period.
Too many churches take the "spare the rod, spoil the child" statement from the Bible way, way too far. They need to go to Psalm 23 and look up how God uses the rod. | |
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| Problems with ex's church
Posted: 11/13/2009 8:29:52 AM | It sounds like your problem is with your ex, not his church. He attends that church b/c he respects its doctrines. If he is being abusive - either as a parent or through an agent - your grievance is with him.
Look at it this way. You’re not going to change the collective mindset of the church. If you want to remove your children from the situation you will have persuade or compel your ex.
You are probably not going to convince your ex that he and his church are wrong. You are also unlikely to convince a court that the behavior you described endangers your children to such a degree that your ex’s visitation should be limited. Your best move is to follow Packagedeal’s advice. Go with them. Let your opinion be known in a respectful manner. | |
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| Problems with ex's church
Posted: 11/13/2009 8:59:02 AM |
The church told us to spank our kids and allowed a church member to grab my 5 year old at the time by the arm and scream in his face. THIS is child abuse; regardless of who is doing it (be it parent or church member).
Additionally, the above mentality is incorrect. No one has a right to touch another another person's child in any way. I even ask parents before trying to hold babies, pick up toddlers, etc. Additionally, no one ever has a right to scream in a child's face. Ever.
Ugh. This makes me physically sick just reading what happened.
As to what to do about church when your ex has your children, if it were me and these were my kids, I would voice my objections to the ex and ask him not to take the children there. If he refused, I would then need to decide whether to refuse visitation rights or to be at that church on the weekends that he has the children. There would be no way I would ever let the kids be at that church (nor any of its functions) outside of my presence.
It's a very touch situation your in.
I hope it works out well for you and for you kids.
~Joy | |
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| Problems with ex's church
Posted: 11/13/2009 11:50:52 AM | This is NOT child abuse here. Child abuse, by law (in Pennsylvania, every state reads somewhat differently) can ONLY be when the perpetrator is in a caretaking position or is a household member. CPS won't get involved in the situation you described.
It is however, assault, engangering the welfare of a child, etc. - a police matter.
I'd agree that you should try to talk to the father - if that doesn't work, then you need to go through a lawyer and/or the courts. | |
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| Problems with ex's church
Posted: 11/13/2009 12:17:06 PM | | That's a very good distinction, Cookie (what is and is not legally considered child abuse). I was a bit incensed when I read the OP, so I wasn't speaking from how the law would look at it; only from how I personally view it. I should have been expressed that clearer. | |
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| Problems with ex's church
Posted: 11/13/2009 12:27:54 PM | | Tell 'em to leave your kids alone or you'll pee in the baptismal font. | |
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| Problems with ex's church
Posted: 11/13/2009 12:33:02 PM | I feel for you and you should get legal advise, but I would first take my kids pictures off an internet dating site.
Which is more dangerous?
Don't think your ex won't use it against you. | |
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| Problems with ex's church
Posted: 11/13/2009 12:47:03 PM | | Yes Joy that is something people don't understand - that child abuse (legally) may not encompass every act against a child. It is important for people with children to know, so that they understand who to call if there is a problem - CPS for some things, the police for others (although many overlap). CPS varies from state to state, and county to county, in what laws they follow, and even procedures in individual counties... | |
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| Problems with ex's church
Posted: 11/13/2009 12:55:25 PM | Peppermint Petunias is right.
OP, where I live, if you smack your children like that in public, you could be charged with assault.
I would be going to your local newspaper about this church. It would make the front page, trust me. Expose these b@stards for the bullies they are - disgusting low-lifes who use the excuse of "well I was beaten to a pulp and I survived" as a reason to scream at and hit children. What sort of God believes in that? Seriously, do you see these actions having some kind of spiritual meaning?
As far as your ex taking your children there - I like rock hunter's note idea. Excellent. But I'd be going with them to see the pastor's face when he read it. Don't let those kids go this church without you - it's too dangerous. | |
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| Problems with ex's church
Posted: 11/13/2009 1:10:36 PM | | I would seek legal advice first. I am not against spanking children or dicipline; however it is not for anyone else but the parent to do. Not some random church. Sounds like a cult thing; kinda weird. Take the pics off this site as well, especially since you may need to do some legal stuff here. One thing to list that you ahve children; another to expose them all over the internet. | |
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| Problems with ex's church
Posted: 11/13/2009 1:41:04 PM | If you hit my kid, you've hit me. Then you have a real problem.
The simple solution is to tell your ex that your "friendly" divorce is about to change if he even THINKS about putting your kids in that enviroment. Then, if he did I would go from a rather easy-going person to raving lunatic from hell, show up at the church with camera and cell phone already to call 911 in hand.
Yeah, I had physical punishment used on me as a kid. Took a long time to learn that violence was wrong. It can fcuk your kids up for a long time.
Can you tell I might have some deep feelings about this? | |
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| Problems with ex's church
Posted: 11/13/2009 1:48:29 PM | OP, if someone hit you, would you think of it as assault? The law certainly would. Why do you think it's different because it involves a pastor and children?
Whether you call it child abuse or not, it's certainly assault. | |
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| Problems with ex's church
Posted: 11/13/2009 7:59:33 PM | | That church as absolutely no legal rights whatsoever over your children. I would march into the Pator's office and tell him falt out that if he or any member of his churchevery strikes your children, you will call the police and press charges. Also tell the same to your ex-husband. | |
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| Problems with ex's church
Posted: 11/14/2009 9:14:32 AM |
What do i do?
Other than voice your concerns to your ex, I don't think that there's much that you can do, legally. You can't control his actions & decisions he makes during his time with the children. Unless he is placing them directly in harms way, your hands are tied and frankly, it doesn't sound like he's placing them in harms way. The way I see it, the worst that could happen is that they'll learn that they have to behave in church.
I don't want to ruin this friendly relationship with my ex but i feel that the church is not a safe place for my children.
OK, considering the fact that you have posted pictures of your precious little ones on a DATING web site for every manipulative PEDOPHILE to see, I find this an incredibly hypocritical statement. I would MUCH prefer that my children be disciplined by familiar persons in the house of God, instead of being molested by some sick b*stard my ex met on the internet who managed to weasel & BS his way into her life! If you were truly concerned about your children's safety, you wouldn't openly display them for all of the sickos in the world to see.
EDIT:
Every time the kids come back from a visit with daddy, inspect them. If there are marks on them, take pictures and go to the nearest emergency room. Have them document it. Call in Social Services. Get a restraining order. File for full custody, with him having supervised visitation. Exact same situation. Worked for me. I've had them 9 years now, and they are 11 and 12. Best decision of my life, and theirs.
WOW. So, if the child falls off of the swing or is running, trips, and scrapes his knees, you twist it into a case of child abuse!?? God forbid your ex wife would have ever held you to the same standards. If THIS is the best decision you've ever made in your life, I pity you! Once again on the forums I will point out that at some point, this woman was a good enough person for you to marry and procreate with - TWICE. Then all of a sudden she turned into a child abuser!? If, in fact, this is the case (which I seriously doubt) what does that say about your ability to make wise choices in life??
Now it's all on my terms, and I can ensure it's in their best interest.
Uh huh, now YOU and your insecure & immature personality have complete control. Great example to set for the children... You call yourself a "Christian"?? | |
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| Problems with ex's church
Posted: 11/14/2009 9:23:22 AM | Every time the kids come back from a visit with daddy, inspect them. If there are marks on them, take pictures and go to the nearest emergency room. Have them document it. Call in Social Services. Get a restraining order. File for full custody, with him having supervised visitation. Exact same situation. Worked for me. I've had them 9 years now, and they are 11 and 12. Best decision of my life, and theirs.
Two years after I got full custody, she'd made 2 child support payments. I only asked for 200 a month, although I could have gotten more. I just wanted her to show some responsibility. I had my attorney draft up paperwork where she effectively gave up all rights to the kids. She signed, after much discussion. I still let her see the kids. I still have them call her and she calls them. I still let her have visitation. She's still their mother, and I will never keep them from her or her from them. Now it's all on my terms, and I can ensure it's in their best interest. | |
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