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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > The Truth. Under What Conditions, Should It Be Expected, If Ever?      Home login  
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 kohavah
Joined: 1/25/2010
Msg: 1
The Truth. Under What Conditions, Should It Be Expected, If Ever?Page 1 of 2    (1, 2)
Under what conditions does an individual, owe another individual the truth...I have heard certain individuals say to others, "You at least owe me an explanation, as to why you did or did not do something." Is this a valid statement, and why does anyone owe you an explanation? Under what conditions, does an individual have a moral obligation to not reveal the truth, in fact lie, at least to the best of their ability?
 AppleGeek
Joined: 9/26/2006
Msg: 2
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The Truth. Under What Conditions, Should It Be Expected, If Ever?
Posted: 2/3/2010 2:51:04 PM
How about if telling the truth will get someone killed.
 monalee1
Joined: 10/22/2007
Msg: 3
The Truth. Under What Conditions, Should It Be Expected, If Ever?
Posted: 2/3/2010 5:19:26 PM
hi... interesting post and apples answer is good.... Truth> without malice, hidden agendas or selfishness?.... blessings
 ChefInJeans
Joined: 10/30/2009
Msg: 4
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The Truth. Under What Conditions, Should It Be Expected, If Ever?
Posted: 2/3/2010 6:43:52 PM
Honestly, I think the truth COULD be taken on an eye for an eye basis. But there's a catch 22 to that, you can't prove the truthfulness of most statements. Even if you could prove it, then you didn't need to ask in the first place.

Truth is something given and taken on faith. You tell the truth in the hopes that those who talk to you will do the same.
 Living Dharma
Joined: 10/16/2009
Msg: 5
The Truth. Under What Conditions, Should It Be Expected, If Ever?
Posted: 2/3/2010 8:58:45 PM
I would say there are no conditions that would present themselves in my life that would necessitate me to lie consciously. I would just choose not to reveal the truth if it would cause too much suffering. Just like in court, either tell the truth or plead the 5th and face the consequences.

When one lies, it is necessary to keep the lies straight or you will eventually get caught. This requires too much attention in my experience as lies lead to more lies to back up the initial lies. Truth is simple to keep straight.

When one tells the truth, others may not like it, but they will respect it. In time, it leads to people who know you only asking questions that they are willing to hear the answers to. The key to telling the truth always is doing it with empathy and compassion.
 ZenBeth
Joined: 2/23/2009
Msg: 6
The Truth. Under What Conditions, Should It Be Expected, If Ever?
Posted: 2/3/2010 9:10:49 PM
In a relationship if both parties have agreed to not lie or keep secrets and one of the persons does something they know is wrong and doesn't own up, then yes, they own their partner and explanation. How else can a relationship grow and mature and be one of full trust? If at work, ones superior has been led to believe that you are honest and can be trusted and then you prove otherwise, I think its common decency to at least admit to ones failing. Like fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. There is something utterly wonderful about being with someone whom no matter what, you can share your hurts, fears, dreams and concerns.

Now..... if it were a situation like with the Nazi/WW2 and I needed to lie to them to protect others from death, then I would indeed lie. Or if I knew some anti (fill in the blank) asked me where the (fill in the blank) lived I wouldn't tell. But these are rare examples.

~Beth~
 Island home
Joined: 7/5/2009
Msg: 7
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The Truth. Under What Conditions, Should It Be Expected, If Ever?
Posted: 2/4/2010 12:27:12 AM
Under what conditions does an individual, owe another individual the truth

I dont know that we owe any one any thing
Other that we owe it to ourselves to give what we expect to receive.
This doesnt mean giving the truth to some one when it will cause unjustified harm.
(mmmm I do wonder how that word unjustified may be taken I mean unjustified in the sense there is no valid reason for the harm that may result. I guess that validity will be a personal judgement)

As far as expecting to receive the truth from another I don't believe we should expect it as a matter of course but to use our judgment always as to whether it is likely.
Generally I expect the truth although that expectation is qualified on examination of what is said and until indicated otherwise

edit
When making a judgment as to whether we are receiving the truth. We need to take into account whether we could handle it if our judgment was proven to be wrong
mmmm Isn't that what may make us hang onto untruths?
 2ears1mouth
Joined: 7/13/2009
Msg: 8
The Truth. Under What Conditions, Should It Be Expected, If Ever?
Posted: 2/4/2010 4:15:29 AM
Often one can be very funny by just telling the truth.

H.L. Mencken, Dorothy Parker, George Carlin, Richard Pryor, Sarah Silverman, and many others have managed to make pretty good careers or at least get a great deal of notoriety out of it.
 raraavis41
Joined: 9/20/2006
Msg: 9
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The Truth. Under What Conditions, Should It Be Expected, If Ever?
Posted: 2/4/2010 5:49:49 AM
The "Truth" is always subjective. The information that is shared between any two individuals will always go through a screening process. Some will be accepted and some will be rejected. A "lie" shows a truth about the individual dispensing it. A reason for a lie can be anything from conceit to lack of confidence, or from empathy to deceit.

One truth I believe is that without a chance to learn, an individual cannot advance through life. When a person states another individual owes them an explanation, what they are looking for is the rationale behind their actions so that they can better understand how others make decisions. Your moral obligation depends on how you perceive that they will use that understanding. If you feel they will misuse that information, then you would be morally obligated to lie. But in most instances I believe you would have a moral obligation to tell the unvarnished truth to help them on their own path through life.
 ChefInJeans
Joined: 10/30/2009
Msg: 10
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The Truth. Under What Conditions, Should It Be Expected, If Ever?
Posted: 2/4/2010 12:45:33 PM

Often one can be very funny by just telling the truth. George Carlin.


Carlin has a CD out that contains and interview of himself and he goes into how comedy is actually all about exaggeration, so in fact its not the direct telling of the truth that brings comedy, you have to skew it a little bit ;)
 edisto
Joined: 1/1/2010
Msg: 11
The Truth. Under What Conditions, Should It Be Expected, If Ever?
Posted: 2/4/2010 11:09:51 PM
the closer I am to someone
truth is more important

if I am not close- say, like a superficial relationship
or a co-worker
I am probably not concerned with truth so much

after all, truth is not always something
one wants to hear
so a lot of times
it's just easier to be "vague" or well,
not completely honest
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 12
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The Truth. Under What Conditions, Should It Be Expected, If Ever?
Posted: 2/5/2010 12:36:51 AM
the truth, always the truth, tempered by your motive.

what ever!
 JP1111
Joined: 4/13/2008
Msg: 13
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The Truth. Under What Conditions, Should It Be Expected, If Ever?
Posted: 2/5/2010 10:55:15 AM
Truth is never OWED to anyone. A person may want to share the truth with everyone because that is who they are and, others often look for that!

When someone says “you owe me the truth”, that is a clear sign of expectations and expectations can surely be a pit-fall for themselves.

The only moral obligations to not reveal the truth is when it concerns either work (because you simply can’t talk about it) or it concerns something else that they cannot know (a surprise for them).
 garry1949
Joined: 12/26/2005
Msg: 14
The Truth. Under What Conditions, Should It Be Expected, If Ever?
Posted: 2/5/2010 4:03:49 PM
You may eventually expect the truth from someone who is put under conditions of torture. However, if he has no truth to offer, you may also eventually expect a lie from someone under torture. Whatever will cause the torture to stop. Divine Law dictates a total measure return of suffering to those who inflict suffering on innocents, so torture is never a good idea if there is any doubt about someone knowing a desired truth.
 BowdenK
Joined: 11/29/2009
Msg: 15
The Truth. Under What Conditions, Should It Be Expected, If Ever?
Posted: 2/5/2010 9:11:35 PM
OP

I feel that people are justified in using your example statement if the person in question directly influences the life of the one asking the question. One may disagree and feel that they own their partner no explanation for going to the bar all night without calling to let his or her partner know. The partner likely expected the one in question home at a certain time and so will worry about him or her. This was a direct effect caused by the actions of the one in question, and so without an explanation the connection between these two people will experience negative consequence.

There is no natural law to dictate what one must tell another, but there are natural consequences to not respecting the innate responsibilities of making particular types of commitments and connections to other people. These responsibilities depend on the person to whom you are connected, but they will exist in whatever form they are given through human diversity.
 Twister239
Joined: 6/21/2009
Msg: 16
The Truth. Under What Conditions, Should It Be Expected, If Ever?
Posted: 2/5/2010 11:34:03 PM
The truth is so unbelievable that no one would believe it anyways..
we are as insignifigant as a grain of sand..
yet we feel so much.

 Funcuz
Joined: 1/16/2009
Msg: 17
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The Truth. Under What Conditions, Should It Be Expected, If Ever?
Posted: 2/6/2010 1:20:24 AM
The truth ? The truth !? ..... You can't HANDLE the truth !

Honestly , in a perfect world there would be no need to lie but since we don't live in a perfect world (or actually , maybe we do when you think about how appealing the stereotypical "perfect" would be) deciding on when to tell the truth and when not to is really a matter of judgment.
If the truth causes more harm than good then it's probably better to keep our mouths shut or at least lie through our teeth. Just remember that necessary damage to facilitate better living is not doing more harm than good even if the damage takes centuries to get past.
 Island home
Joined: 7/5/2009
Msg: 18
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The Truth. Under What Conditions, Should It Be Expected, If Ever?
Posted: 2/6/2010 1:31:05 AM

Just remember that necessary damage to facilitate better living is not doing more harm than good even if the damage takes centuries to get past.


Its one thing to make that choice for yourself
it is a completely different matter to make it for another
 Funcuz
Joined: 1/16/2009
Msg: 19
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The Truth. Under What Conditions, Should It Be Expected, If Ever?
Posted: 2/6/2010 1:41:41 AM

Its one thing to make that choice for yourself
it is a completely different matter to make it for another

Well let's put that in context.
Whose fault is it if the truth is demanded and given ?
Whose fault is it if the lies affect your life in a negative way even though everybody else is happy to believe in them ?

If somebody demands to know the truth , fine , they can have it provided things aren't made irreparably worse by doing so.
If somebody refuses to believe the truth and the lie makes my life a hell , then the truth is coming out one way or another. In other words , why am I supposed to sacrifice the truth for a lie that makes everything worse ? Who's imposing on who in that case ?
 Island home
Joined: 7/5/2009
Msg: 20
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The Truth. Under What Conditions, Should It Be Expected, If Ever?
Posted: 2/6/2010 1:58:13 AM
Whose fault is it if the lies affect your life in a negative way even though everybody else is happy to believe in them ?

I am thinking in terms of some one else feeding you lies that cause you harm. It doesnt matter if every one else is prepared to sacrifice you.
How can anyone judge what is best for another?

edit especially when it is based on a lie
 Funcuz
Joined: 1/16/2009
Msg: 21
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The Truth. Under What Conditions, Should It Be Expected, If Ever?
Posted: 2/6/2010 2:07:57 AM

It doesnt matter if every one else is prepared to sacrifice you.

Well it matters to me .

How can anyone judge what is best for another?

They don't actually have to. They're the ones forcing the issue so that makes it their problem if they can't deal with the truth. That old maxim "Don't shoot the messenger" comes to mind here. It's not my fault if somebody demands to know the truth and I give it to them. As I said before though , it still is situational.
An irrational person threatening to slice somebody's throat is going to get whatever information from me that I decide will save a life. The truth is irrelevant in such a context. Demanding to know where I've been all night ... well really , what good is served by lying ? If the truthful answer causes pain and that pain is then turned into anger and vented on me , well that sucks . Then again , had I not chosen to ignore the issues for so long that they became issues (in other words , had I chosen to be truthful from the start) there wouldn't be any need to attempt to delay the inevitable.
Liars have to have pretty good memories. Mine's good enough but life is still considerably easier by simply telling the truth from the start. It also makes my opinion more valuable in certain instances because some people actually appreciate the no-bull version things.
 2ears1mouth
Joined: 7/13/2009
Msg: 22
The Truth. Under What Conditions, Should It Be Expected, If Ever?
Posted: 2/6/2010 3:50:31 AM
"Geez, you've obviously been porking out since I last saw you."

"Those cookies taste like cardboard, Aunt Mimi,"

"Damn, you've got some ass-ugly kids there."
 Devilsfan58
Joined: 3/19/2009
Msg: 23
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The Truth. Under What Conditions, Should It Be Expected, If Ever?
Posted: 2/6/2010 5:23:25 AM
I would expect as a patient the doctor would be obligated to let the person know that he/she faces xxx and if we do this yyy will happen. It would allow people to take care of family matters and such in time.

When we provide a service for money. Dear Mr/Mrs Smith we can proceed with your lawsuit but you face a slim/great chance of succeeding.

When you have knowledge that something dire is going to happen to the person and that they need to take precautions to protect themselves.
 veevee
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 24
The Truth. Under What Conditions, Should It Be Expected, If Ever?
Posted: 3/7/2012 6:39:18 PM
I think the truth should be in place at all times.
Does it hurt sometimes, possibly, but it's better to live in reality than under a fog.

If lies are natural than so is getting doped up on heroin then living our lives. I hear it's pretty good stuff from the addicts, supposedly better than orgasms. Why aren't we all on that path if the lie beats the truth. That would be living a lie through and through - no pain, no emotion, and physical numbness.
 red_fir
Joined: 11/21/2011
Msg: 25
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The Truth. Under What Conditions, Should It Be Expected, If Ever?
Posted: 3/7/2012 8:43:00 PM
While lying is always contemptible no one is under compulsion to tell all they know.
Simply because some one demands answers is no reason to give them, as a matter of fact the mere detail that they are demanding them is adequate reason to misdirect.
A polite question deserves a polite answer but frequently the polite answer is "none of your business".
For those who push past that point and demand answers, misdirection, evasion, or disassociation, are all valid responses, if they are willing to risk the relationship to demand answers its your prerogative to give in to that kind of manipulation or terminate the relationship.
FWIW all of these games are manipulation, ultimatums are one of the most popular tools for manipulators, when I'm given an ultimatum as a matter of policy I explore the consequences rather than the options.
Its a game of emotional blackmail and at the first capitulation you'll be blackmailed for perpetuity.
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