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| | Why do you have the political beliefs that you have? Page 1 of 3 (1, 2, 3) | I’m just curious. I’ve been here for awhile now and one thing seems perpetual. Regardless of what side of the fence they fall on, many people here are very passionate about their political beliefs. Often to the point of not even being able to conduct a rational and respectful discussion with people on the other side of an issue.
So my question is this. Why do you hold the beliefs that you hold? And what are they? Are you liberal, conservative, or moderate? Why? | |
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| Why do you have the political beliefs that you have?
Posted: 3/6/2010 2:15:07 AM | I was lucky enough to grow up in a time where politics was a somewhat more respectable profession. 
In 1968, at age eleven, two men essentially dominated politics in North America - Robert Kennedy and Pierre Elliot Trudeau. 
Here , Trudeau's election campaign electrified the country - especially the young. He was, truly, our "philosopher king". No one's come close to the high water marks he left over his career, in the forty two years since. He served as the basis for my political beliefs in the Canadian system.
That summer, I watched the TV news and programs on the RFK 1968 campaign. It was a time of great turmoil, and yet I saw in him the same type of qualities that Trudeau exhibited, those ones I held in such high esteem. Over the months, it seemed like he too was going to be elected. It was the first time I'd followed an American presidential campaign, but not the last.
My brother, mother and I watched the programing on the California primary vote, and then turned off the TV once it looked like he had won - before he gave his speech. It was very late here , and it was time to go to bed.
When we awoke the next morning, the dream had become a nightmare.  
Still interested in politics years later, I spent the entire summer of 1974 watching the Watergate hearings. All my friends had tans that summer - while I remained a rather pasty white . I was impressed that a corrupt SOB like Nixon could be taken down in such a public manner. I'd been following the story since it had broken.
So those two men form the political bedrock of both my passion for politics and my political beliefs. I still believe that what they stood for are things that are equally as valid today - if not more so. | |
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| Why do you have the political beliefs that you have?
Posted: 3/6/2010 6:42:56 AM | My political interests/leanings come from similar roots as Montrealguy's...only I spent my growing up years in the 60's in the San Francisco area, meaning exposure to civil rights causes, alternative lifestyles and the idea of improvement in our way of life through political action was all very much everyday real life saturation.
As an adult I became involved with small town local politics and eventually started working for the government. The way things actually worked as opposed to the ideal is something I find fascinating. | |
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| Why do you have the political beliefs that you have?
Posted: 3/6/2010 8:35:14 AM | When I was nine years old, my father, who was a cop trying to raise 4 sons on a budget, taped a $100 bill in the back of "Atlas Shrugged", and told me when I could read that book, and pass an oral exam given by him, I could have the money... Well, a hundred bucks to a 9 year old in 1973 was a lot of money! lol I never let him see that book off the shelf, because I wasn't sure I'd be able to do it, but I would go get it after he left for work, and take it to school and ask one of my teachers to help we with the big words... I got the hundred dollars before I turned 10, but I think what I got out of the challenge was worth more...
In high school I remember all the fear of nuclear war, the drills, and the gloom & doom predictions from my liberal teachers who said we were all going to either die in a nuclear holocaust, or be burned alive from global warming by the year 2000 anyway. I remember being so embarrassed by Jimmy Carter, who had been our Governor, and his handling of the hostage crisis. It was all unbelievably depressing, but then Ronald Reagan came along, and it was "morning in America"...
I was out campaigning for Reagan with my folks by age 15... A friend of mine would drive, with me sitting indian style on the hood, and we would go from mailbox to mailbox passing out brochures. I didn't realize at the time that is a federal crime! lol
About that time I also discovered Robert Heinlein, who was heavily influenced by Ayn Rand and Charles****ns. He wouldn't let you assume anything. He would challenge or question even very basic core values and beliefs with regard to religion, politics, patriotism, bravery, self reliance, self determination, personal responsibility, character, honor, honesty, ethics, gender stereotypes, sexuality, aging, war, etc... I credit Heinlein with shaping the way I think almost as much as my own father, and wrote as much to his widow when he died...
While I was in college my dad, who had gone to law school while working as a cop, became the Republican Nominee for Governor. During the campaign, I was invited to attend the United States Campaign Academy, which I got thrown out of after exposing the main source of their funding - the Moonies! lol Well, the campaign took me anyway, and I wound up being field director.
During the campaign, which we lost, there was a lot of data we needed, but could only get from the RNC. When we finally got it, it was on a 9 track tape we needed a mainframe to work with. The whole thing made me so angry I decided to learn how to compile the data myself, and ended up putting together a computer system that could take data off of just about any platform, convert the character set and the format if needed, and put it in a database. No one else in Georgia at the time that I am aware of could do that, so all of a sudden I had a virtual monopoly on my hands. Candidates started coming out of the woodwork, and the next thing I knew I had accidentally found my calling and created a business.
Following the campaign, I got a call from an ad agency one of the candidates had been working with, who wanted to involve me in a commercial database marketing project. She explained to me that the system I had created could be used to process the data they normally paid a mainframe service bureau to handle for them. I ended up taking it on, and from there the business kept growing...
Over the years I've worked with hundreds of campaigns, and have had some really amazing life experiences as a result. They never get boring. It can be a little overwhelming at times to try to deal with so many at once, especially the bigger ones, and it's really more of a young man's game because the average age of a campaign worker in America is 23, but so far I'm still hanging in there with the best of them...
Those experience have taught me a great deal. I like feeling like I'm making a difference, but I'll sometime literally lose sleep when I know I might be making THE difference. Early in my career, just the fact that a candidate had the money and then hired me would give them about an 80% chance of victory on average, so who I was working for really mattered to me. Many I had personal friendships with wound up letting me down. At the same time, the party asked me to adopt their position of neutrality in a primary, so sometimes I'd end up working with all four candidates in a race, but having two or more in a primary race was fairly common. Later in my career I had more competition, so I was more able to focus more on the individual candidate's core philosophies, and what they bring to the table in a given office, and have tried to work with the really good ones whenever I can...
The times we're in now are almost surreal to me. Either we have certain inalienable rights which come from our creator, and among those are life liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, or we have alienable rights which come from our government. To me, it all really comes down to that central question.
Do we limit the power of the government, as our founding fathers intended, or do we grant the government the power to limit us? Do we follow the constitution, or follow case law? Do we learn from history, or allow the government to rewrite it, and then doom ourselves to repeat it? Will we continue to make history, or will we BE history?
I have have pledged my allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands... Well, what do I do when, in spite of my best efforts, that Republic gradually slides into a corrupt socialist oligarchy, and becomes as tyrannical as the governments my ancestors came here to escape?
For now, my answer is, "Everything I can do to save it", but if I can't, I'll be doing the same thing my ancestors did. I'll leave, and with a clear conscience. I did my part.
Ayn Rand was right, and this Atlas has finally Shrugged... | |
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| Why do you have the political beliefs that you have?
Posted: 3/6/2010 10:06:20 AM |
I was out campaigning for Reagan with my folks by age 15 ... So basically, you were raised as a Republican and have continued in that. I'd say that pretty much explains how the majority of us find our way into our political beliefs. We become products of our environment.
We're either indoctrinated/influenced by our parents or someone we look up to and follow up. Occasionally I have met people who are raised in one particular political atmosphere and change their ideas later.
I have known people who were raised in Republican (extremely racist and bigoted) homes and who came to despise it so much that they pursued anything they could find that was the opposite of that ... not necessarily Democrats.
I was raised among Democrats but was not particularly interested in politics until after I was married. My husband was German and I recall many heated debates in our home (living in Germany) over politics. After returning to the US, I became involved in local politics ... school board etc. and escalated my interests along the way.
I recall many different things over the years but must always chuckle when I hear people say that Reagan had anything to do with the Berlin Wall coming down. Having lived in West Germany for so many years and personally knowing East Germans and how things were going in East Germany ... I can tell you that what "Dumb-Dumb Ronnie" said about the Berlin Wall ... had no influence what so ever on things.
The situation in East Germany was so deteriorated by then that we knew long before the wall was brought down that it was just a matter of time and the wall would come down. It had absolutely nothing to do with what "Dumb-Dumb Ronnie" said.
West Germany had been keeping track of the crop production in East Germany and the East block countries via satellite and had been supplying East block countries with food for some time. They knew exactly why food production was down and about how long it would be before the Soviets could no longer handle it.
Believe me ... it had absolutely nothing to do with some speech "Dumb-Dumb Ronnie" made and to this day, whenever I hear any news broadcaster make a reference to the greatness of ole "Dumb-Dumb Ronnie" for having "brought down the wall", I just have to laugh straight out loud.
Of course they have no idea that they have been handed a snow job by the American media ... who of course, only prints and broadcasts what they're told to do. Living abroad, one gets a whole different perspective on the world news ... it's not so biased and controlled as it is here in the US. I miss that. | |
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| Why do you have the political beliefs that you have?
Posted: 3/6/2010 10:39:46 AM |
Why do you hold the beliefs that you hold? And what are they? Are you liberal, conservative, or moderate? Why?
I am more of a Libertarian. This means my views are closer to the right, but I've not liked any of those republicans and I'm not a fan of any of the democrats either.
The reason I adopt the Libertarian views is because I don't like government to dictate our personal habits. If we're not endangering the welfare of others, we should do as we please. For example, I don't think the government (may it be state or federal) should be involved in ussues like gay marriage and blocking it at all costs. Nobody is harmed when gays get married. Yet, those lame religious zealots of neocons want to control us with their religious beliefs. Issues like abortion, marriage, drug uses, and some others should be left to the people to do as they please as long as they don't impose on others. There are bunch of government programs and departments I find useless and I think should disappear (i.e. the Department of Education and its useless expensive No Child Left Behind program)
I also would love to see Federal Reserve disappear to allow a true "laissez-faire" capitalist form of economy (we have not had that since 1913).
We also do not need to be babysitted by the government like some democrats believe we should be. I don't trust the government, the media, our justice system, therefore prefer them to stay out of my life.
To me, both major parties in this country are the same which is why I've never voted. My parents and siblings have the same views and they've never voted either.
We need a 3rd major party in this country which advocates better foreign and domestic policies. Although we seem to have 2 major parties, the reality is we only have one since the parties follow the same policies. Our choices are limited to only 1 so it's basically the same as not having a choice.
I've donated to Ron Paul's Campain for Liberty and hope it grows stronger and that Ron Paul runs for president again in 2012. Hopefully on a different platform than those other republican losers. | |
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| Why do you have the political beliefs that you have?
Posted: 3/6/2010 11:02:53 AM | From my parents.
In Italy For the right, Lega Nord, Berlusconi. as they are doing a good job.
Illegal immigration, kept the country out of debt, and not a basket case like Greece, Portugal, Ireland...
Australia for the labor party, which would be similar to the Democrats, centrist and importantly making Australia a Republic and getting rid of the English Monarchy | |
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| Why do you have the political beliefs that you have?
Posted: 3/6/2010 11:29:08 AM | Like most people I was very sure about myself and my beliefs when I was young. Started out very right wing as a teenager, then came across stuff that was clearly wrong so did a flip to very left wing. As I got older I recognized that dogma really doesn't work.
I finally came to a place where I recognized that power gets abused by some who hold it. There was an editorial in todays NY Times about cops in schools who have done things like arrest unruly kindergartners. It's going to happen - parents, teachers, priests, cops, judges, political leaders, bosses and corporations all abuse power. Not all of them do it, but some will. I think you need to have a strong enough government to stand up to corporate abusers, and an open system of government to expose abuse in government. Those who abuse power always like to do it in secret, so when you see things like "Presidential Privilege" you should assume they're hiding wrong doing unless proved otherwise. | |
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| Why do you have the political beliefs that you have?
Posted: 3/6/2010 12:33:24 PM |
I think you need to have a strong enough government to stand up to corporate abusers, and an open system of government to expose abuse in government.
I agree but who's gonna do it? In this era, it's money that matters. There are too many secrets among the 3 branches of government who are supposed to be balancing powers (maybe the corporations are a 4th branch of government). No one can expose those secrets because no one wants to end up like JFK. | |
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| Why do you have the political beliefs that you have?
Posted: 3/6/2010 12:53:39 PM | Fight Club is a great book and a great movie.
Our unnamed protagonist has a job where he goes out and writes cheques to families of people killed by product malfunctions. This is decided by the corporation that it's cheaper in many cases to write half a dozen cheques a year than to fix the problem. Both book and movie cause a lot of controversy, but that wasn't considered controversial - we all acknowledge that this sort of thing happens all the time.
The only entity that exists in society that's big enough to stop this sort of thing is the government. But the government has been starved for decades by the mantra of "Smaller government and lower taxes." So there aren't enough cops to catch the Bernie Madoff's or the investment banks that nearly collapsed the economy by finding ways to follow the letter of the law while circumventing the spirit. And we all know that any suggestion to tighten financial laws in the last 30 years would have been ridiculed.
The problem isn't too much government - it's too little. I think RICO laws should be used on corporations who routinely decide that it's cheaper to pay fines than follow regulations. Seize all their assets and the assets of the directors of the companies. These are criminal enterprises and should be treated as such. | |
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| Why do you have the political beliefs that you have?
Posted: 3/6/2010 1:48:08 PM | I grew up in a republican household, but one where dinner conversations were often political, and my sister and I were encouraged to develop our own positions and learn to express them and defend them. A key conversation stimulus was often the TV show "All in the Family".
The primary driver behind my parents political affiliation was the traditional fiscal conservative position of the Republicans. When Reagan tossed that out the window, they became disenchanted, and the final nail in the coffin for them was when the Republican platform started to emphasize personal choice issues like abortion and gay marriage. They're now independents, as I am, but most often vote Democrat, as I often do. Living in NH as they do, they take full advantage of opportunities leading up to the primary to attend dinner parties with the candidates. This past election they met John Edwards, then Obama, and were scheduled for Hillary but were sufficiently impressed by Obama that they decided didn't need any more information. Their decision was made.
There was an interesting period there when my parents were still hanging on to their Republican roots while my sister and I were far more liberal. Conversations were quite lively, but always respectful.
I think my values were the result of being raised to develop my own value system combined with a strong emphasis on the need to give more than we receive and a deep compassion for people and the environment. The result is that I claim no part affiliation, determined to make my own decisions come election time, but almost always I end up picking the Democrat when their platform is closest to my values of all the choices.
Dave | |
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| Why do you have the political beliefs that you have?
Posted: 3/6/2010 4:48:33 PM | It's always fascinated me to hear the stories behind why people make the political choices they do. So far, in this thread, I'm impressed by everyone's path - even those on the other side of the debate.
I grew up in a family where we also discussed politics, and that discussion was always respectful - although sometimes passionate. As long as you could back up what you were saying, it was a valid point. My Mom read three papers a day, and was sharp as a tack when it came to a counter argument - although we weren't too far apart politically. It was more a generational gap, in that very typical 60's way.
I've always been a strong supporter of civil rights, and that no doubt comes from my 60's heritage as well.
My experience has been that one typically follows quite close to the path your parents were walking, unless there was a certain pathology present in that relationhip.
Interesting, isn't it ?
I've also lived in a place where politics had a very real day to day influence in our lives. Like I've pointed out, the province I live in also nearly became a country twice. That tends to focus your attention quite well on what politics can potentially do. Sitting there listening to political giants like Rene Levesque and Pierre Elliot Trudeau debating the future of your country makes you realize just how far we've fallen politically and intellectually in the quality of our leaders.
It was always quite enjoyable to sit in room filled with nationalists/separatists, and to go head to head with them debating politics as the only federalist there. | |
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| Why do you have the political beliefs that you have?
Posted: 3/6/2010 4:51:13 PM | This is turning into an interesting thread. I appreciate everyone keeping this civil.
My experience was pretty much the opposite of halftimedad's. When I was little, I was exposed to political discussions at the dinner table every so often during summer vacation. My grandparents were very liberal and my dad was the black sheep conservative of the family. They would argue back and forth, and I never paid much attention to it.
Then when I became a teenager, I indulged in all the typical teenage rebellion. As a child of the 90s, I latched onto all the grunge, metal, and alternative rock bands of the era that were pushing a very liberal mindset. Pro-feminism, pro-gay rights, anti-patriotism, and extremely anti-Republican. Since these were my role models, I adopted their values without question. But I remember on some level feeling like I wasn't thinking for myself. And that bothered me. Meanwhile the social environment seemed to be slowly shifting in support of all these things that Kurt Cobain and Eddie Vedder and Rage Against the Machine were saying. They were slowly becoming popular opinion. So I assumed they must be right.
Then as I got further into my 20s, I began to look at things a little more closely and started thinking for myself. And I saw all kinds of things that didn't make sense. Things that sounded like valid and noble ideas on paper were being routinely twisted around and abused to frame opportunists as victims. More and more people were using feelings instead of facts to establish accepted social norms. Hypocrisy and double standards were everywhere. And even simply pointing these things out in a respectful manner would get you labeled as a bigot, a chauvinist, or some other form of social leper. So I moved to the right.
Currently, my beliefs are pretty close to Jayron's. More libertarian than anything. It just seems to make the most sense. | |
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| Why do you have the political beliefs that you have?
Posted: 3/6/2010 6:31:29 PM |
To me, both major parties in this country are the same which is why I've never voted. My parents and siblings have the same views and they've never voted either.
Please vote.
Voting levels are abysmal.
In the USA, its is important you exercise your right to vote that was fought for through hard battles by people who were not given the chance to vote.
Not voting is not the same as a protest vote.
Not voting actually becomes a vote for the status quo, not a protest as some see it.
When you do not vote, you are showing the folks in power that you don't care how they conduct the business of voting.
Any vote matters. It shows that you are engaged and care about how the government is run. This doesn't mean you vote for something you don't agree with; turn in an empty ballot if necessary.
Polls are conducted based on a very narrow selection and the percents are extrapolated by comparing the poll results with voter registration and tally percentages.
I've heard over and over "you can't blame this mess on me because I don't vote". Actually, you are a very big part of the problem, as you can see above.
I know about this. It's part of what I do for a living. | |
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| Why do you have the political beliefs that you have?
Posted: 3/6/2010 9:56:09 PM | My political beliefs have undergone a bit of evolution. I was young during the Carter years but two things stuck in my mind. His inability to solve the hostage crisis and long waits in line for gasoline. My formative years were during the Reagan years. The economy was doing well and we won the Cold War. Though most of my family was Democrat my older brother was a staunch Republican and I think I probably wanted to emulate him a bit. All these things factored into me being a Republican. Also I was a religious Catholic and even back then I got the sense that God must be a Republican. During the Bush Sr. years things really changed for me. Two major events happened that drove me from the Republican party. First, Bush broke his "no new taxes" pledge which didn't seem to bother the Republicans much. Second, Bush exited from the Gulf War without finishing the mission of getting Hussein. This also didn't really bother the Republicans much. I was getting pretty disillusioned with the Republicans because of this. At the same time I was thinking more about my conservative stances and realized I wasn't being very consistent either. If I really wanted small government then why was I so much in favor of the Gulf War? Why did I want the government to make homosexuality illegal? Why did I support a big military? Why did I support drug laws and prostitution laws?
Perhaps coincidentally I was also losing my religion. These led me to a major change in my politics. I became a Libertarian (and shortly thereafter an atheist). I no longer had any desire to impose my morals upon other people (why should I care if someone was gay or rented out her body for money?) and my conservatism became much more consistent.
Some of the philosophical basis of Libertarianism started to bother me after a while. Things were just too fuzzy. As a Libertarian I was opposed to the "initiation of coercion". But what was coercion anyway? How does stealing property equate to coercion? Why should the government be allowed to initiate coercion when it came to enforcing contracts?
So I eventually moved to the even more consistent position of anarchy. All governments are unnecessary evils. I realize now that I have no need for government. I've always been self-sufficient. I can better protect myself than the government can. I can better spend my money than the government can (of course in an anarchy we'd just barter instead of having money). I can make better decisions about what to put into my body than the government can. I can make better decisions about who I should sleep with than the government can. | |
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| Why do you have the political beliefs that you have?
Posted: 3/6/2010 10:11:54 PM | Please vote.
Voting levels are abysmal.
Indeed.
Whatever your politics, if you found any of the past few presidents particularly offensive, bear in mind that they were put in office by roughly a quarter of those eligible to vote.
I really appreciate this thread. It helps a lot to understand how we all arrived at our current point of view.
Dave | |
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| Why do you have the political beliefs that you have?
Posted: 3/6/2010 10:30:09 PM | I'll play the Devil's Advocate here:
You shouldn't vote. The only time your individual vote makes a difference is if your candidate loses by a single vote or if there's a tie. How many times has that happened? By any cost/benefit analysis, your time would be better spent doing anything else. If you vote you're just proving that human beings don't behave in strictly rational, selfish ways in making decisions - and that means the entire field of economics is flawed. We keep getting told that paying more for something because it's: sold at a local merchant; a Fair Trade product; organic; not made with sweat shop labour or any other reason than strictly on cost/quality is down right communism.
If you vote, you're a communist. You're defying the principles of the sacred Free Market. | |
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| Why do you have the political beliefs that you have?
Posted: 3/6/2010 11:49:45 PM | Just like some others, my politics come from my upbringing and the many trials and tribulations I've endured over the years.
I was raised by only my mom, who did her best to raise me (and my 3 siblings) on her own. My father refused to be a part of my life, so I had to teach myself to be a man. And that meant I had to do things that I'm not proud of (and won't discuss) to help my mom make ends meet.
Yes, I have been in jail once before, and I've also been homeless. I know how it is to hit the lowest points in life. And I've been able to prevail with the grace of the Good Lord.
However, as I've gotten older, I've come to understand why these things have happened. And I've come to the conclusion that we need to make serious changes amongst ourselves and in our governments so that no one else has to go thru what I and countless others have went thru.
I don't believe it's right to see someone go without the basic needs to sustain oneself, like food, water, and shelter. At the same time, I'm well aware that one just can't expect something to fall in their lap either.
So we can't just type or talk about the same thing over and over (the liberal/conservative soap operas that go on each day here). Yeah, it's easy to talk about because we're so used to negativity towards on another, but for me, it's easier to come up with some of the forum threads I have, because I'd like to see people uplift one another and come up with decent solutions together. My thing is, if we were to all come together (as we all did for a week or two after 9-11) , we wouldn't need government, we wouldn't be worried about the Congress doing this or that, or what our Presidents have done and are doing, because we would only need to focus on what we as a human race could do to make things better for ourselves. | |
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| Why do you have the political beliefs that you have?
Posted: 3/7/2010 6:47:03 AM | halftimedad
"You shouldn't vote. The only time your individual vote makes a difference is if your candidate loses by a single vote or if there's a tie. How many times has that happened? By any cost/benefit analysis, your time would be better spent doing anything else. If you vote you're just proving that human beings don't behave in strictly rational, selfish ways in making decisions - and that means the entire field of economics is flawed. We keep getting told that paying more for something because it's: sold at a local merchant; a Fair Trade product; organic; not made with sweat shop labour or any other reason than strictly on cost/quality is down right communism.
If you vote, you're a communist..."
A decision to not vote is acutally a vote for an autocratic dictatorship you can only hope is benevolent. Think Castro and Cuba. Think Stalin and USSR. Think Idi Amin, Saddam Hussain, Mohamar Kaddaffi.
An individual vote does make a difference...maybe not in the way one might think it should as illustrated by your comment above.
It is important that the very right to vote is exercised so that the governing bodies know people still care to exercise the right, making it more difficult to take that right away.
I know for a fact that the best way to get an official of the executive branch to act on a citizen's concern is via congressional inquiry. I've seen it in action dozens and dozens of times. Congressmen know they won't keep their job if the people who vote for them aren't happy; in response to a consituent complaint they file an inquiry and action of some sort happens.
If congressmen (or leaders of whatever sort) don't need to worry about voters because no one votes, they will answer to another entity.
Yes, you can make a difference getting out there and fighting the status quo in protests, etc, but in the end, in this country, showing that you care enough to exercise the right to vote even when you know what you vote for may not prevail is the very best way to affect policy.
By any measure you are not going to affect policy change in any way other than increasing government control by sitting on the couch griping about the state of affairs and saying "don't blame me, I didn't vote"
However, in this country you do have the right to vote or not vote and gripe about the government without fear of reprisal. Thank the people who gave up their lives (or sanity, health, and/or coping skills) in battle so that you could freely vote your choice...and choose not to anyway. | |
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| Why do you have the political beliefs that you have?
Posted: 3/7/2010 10:36:07 AM | I'm going to beg some indulgence here. (I actually do show up at 8 am every election day).
Every example you gave had or has the right to vote entrenched:
Think Castro and Cuba. Think Stalin and USSR. Think Idi Amin, Saddam Hussain, Mohamar Kaddaffi.
The right to vote means nothing unless you have the right to vote for candidates that offer real differences in approach or differences on issues. In a real democracy a third party would be able to exploit dissatisfaction. In Canada the current governing party was a protest party with a single elected member 25 years ago. In 19th century America the Republicans were a third party.
The two governing parties in America have set up institutional road blocks making a third party's rise impossible. | |
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| Why do you have the political beliefs that you have?
Posted: 3/7/2010 11:04:48 AM |
The two governing parties in America have set up institutional road blocks making a third party's rise impossible.
To a degree Very true....If one votes for a 3rd party then they are taking away votes for the most aligned with the 3rd party's votes. Thus many our country's elections have come down to voting for the Republican or Democrat that is the better of two evils.
How many times has one asked someone why they voted the way they did to hear them say " I voted for the better of the two evils". | |
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| Why do you have the political beliefs that you have?
Posted: 3/7/2010 11:27:27 AM | There are all sorts of bars that a third party candidate has to meet in various states that the two governing parties don't have to - sometimes it's getting 50,000 signatures, sometimes it's cash deposits that aren't returned if they can't get 15% of the vote, and it's always funded primaries and other state funded promotion for the two parties.
You have a one party state. It just puts up two different candidates at each election.
Okay, maybe it's not quite that bad, but at times it sure seems that way. I'd say a good third of seats are won by a candidate who not even those who voted for him or her could tell the difference in their platform from the losing candidates if put up side by side without identifiers. | |
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| Why do you have the political beliefs that you have?
Posted: 3/7/2010 11:35:29 AM | beehearnow,
I totally understand what you mean. You made a very valid and legitimate point. Well, part of the reason I've not voted is not just because I don't trust our government. According to our American Civics, one thing that is also important is to write to our Congressmen. Not many of us does that.
Let me give you another reason why I, or others in my family haven't voted. Although my father was born in America, he had moved to france to continue his studies. So we never really had the chance to really get involved in the voting process. Around 1994 my parents moved back to the US with us. They were registered to vote in GA but they had relocated to California, because my dad wanted to encourage a scientist, Peter Duesberg, to get funding to conduct research on HIV/AIDS, after Congress and NIH had cut all fundings for any research by Peter Duesberg. At that time my dad was writing to the NIH, Congressmen, Senators, and to the White House to ask funding for Peter Duesberg to be able to conduct research on HIV/AIDS, but it was all wasted efforts. You can google Peter Duesberg to find more about him. He's a renown scientist with outstanding achievements, but has been belittled by our government because he denies the hypothesis that HIV causes AIDS. And my dad (a doctor) has always believed Duesberg because he has had AIDS patiens who had no trace of HIV in their blood, and also does not like the fact people are put on dangerous drugs after they are tested positive for HIV because the HIV test only tests for HIV antibodies, but not for the actual virus itself.
So, in 1996 there was an election but my parents couldn't really vote because they were not in GA, but in California.
Then, comes 2000. My parents again went cross continent all the way to South Africa. There was a president there who was willing to stop prescribing those dangerous antiviral drugs to HIV patients and my dad wanted to be there again to support the panel of scientists who oppose the hypothesis that HIV causes AIDS. Well, before you know it the superpowers who have been practicing interventionism came in to impose their drugs on those patients and get in the way. So, again my parents couldn't vote because they were away from their voting states. Although I was in America, I was too young to vote.
In 2003, my dad had read a book by Ron Paul which talked about the collapse in the economy and the way the Fed operates. Again, my dad wrote to Congress, the Senate, and the White House several times, about that and was asking them to change strategies on the economy. They wrote back with lies. And my dad wrote to ask for a better understanding, they completely just stopped answering.
So by the 2004 elections, my dad had already become to fed up with the way government operates and how much it's willing to lie to the people. He realized that government no longer works for the people. Instead of serving us, it's ruling us. My dad completely hates the government for that.
So my dad has taught me not to trust any of the 3 branches of government because they always lean toward whatever will help them feed their greed. The mainstream media only does as it's told and is always biased.
My dad has also taught me to question things. Ideas. Doctrines. He has also encouraged me to use critical thinking to analyze everything. So I'm not influenced by anything that is told to me. I'm never biased when it comes to politics. Religion. Or anything else. I criticize both parties in this country and always wants to find where the differences really lie between them.
I didn't vote in the last elections because, to me, both McCain and Obama were the same people on 2 different platforms. They approached things differently so they sounded different but the end results of everything they said would be similar. But Obama was more appealing to young people because he also addressed their issues on education, and sounded that he was more willing to work on some issues of the middle class. But, honestly I'm not impressed by his presidency, yet. And, unlike other people with their biased opinions, I don't believe McCain was going to do a better job either.
I'm not actually protesting when I don't vote. I just realize that I'm going to get the same nonsense from whoever wins the presidency so I just accept whoever becomes president. If there was somebody with better foreign and domestic policies from any of those major parties, I would have been up early and in line to cast my vote.
Here's the funniest thing that happened just recently. In the CPAC polls, Ron Paul was favored to run in the 2012 elections. Well guess what the neocons said. They said that next time they shouldn't take votes from people under 25 
What kind of democracy is that? And Tom Tancreno's comment about reinstating Jim Crow laws seem to have vanished without any questions to Tom Tancreno. WTF? I really want to know that the people in our government do not hold racist intents.
Well, I'll see what I can do in the next elections to come.  | |
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| Why do you have the political beliefs that you have?
Posted: 3/7/2010 11:45:31 AM |
I'm going to beg some indulgence here. (I actually do show up at 8 am every election day).
By the tone of your original devils advocate posting I figured you do :-)
The right to vote means nothing unless you have the right to vote for candidates that offer real differences in approach or differences on issues. In a real democracy a third party would be able to exploit dissatisfaction. In Canada the current governing party was a protest party with a single elected member 25 years ago. In 19th century America the Republicans were a third party.
I don't follow Canadian politics, but I do know that in the US the two parties have each changed positions radically in the last couple of centuries...our current health care issue over the last 40 years is a good example...what was once the right wing view is now the left wing view in more than one instance, and, of course, the names of the parties have been fairly fluid.
The two governing parties in America have set up institutional road blocks making a third party's rise impossible.
I believe you are refering to the politics of the purse. All politicians who desire to be elected tend to be strongly influenced by the potential of donations to pay the campaign bills. In my humble opinion, it is more the influence of large corporate donations that guide the institutional road blocks than any real philosophic political ideals of the Democrats or Republicans.
It is quite possible for a third party to upset the status quo, and as in your 19th century example, actually become a principal party...in recent US election history Ross Perot, Ron Paul and Ralph Nader all did, even though they did not win, by deflecting enough votes from the two main parties in power to worry some folks into making adjustments in their own politics. The agendas of the principals in our two party system shifted quite a bit in response to those third party candidates. And Jesse Ventura placed quite a stamp independent politics in this country.
It's quite possible our current economic condition will be as much as game changer as were the issues (slavery and states rights) surrounding the rise of the original US Republican party.
If people consistantly vote for change instead of the best paid corporate ad or media political entertainer. | |
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| Why do you have the political beliefs that you have?
Posted: 3/7/2010 11:52:45 AM | So, in 1996 there was an election but my parents couldn't really vote because they were not in GA, but in California
Please learn about and take advantage of the absentee ballot process
Jayron, as a govt employee I can tell you that the changes in administration result in subtle policy changes in some but not all areas. Major policy changes are rare. This is true whether there has been a party change or not. Again, I believe it is how the people who actually do vote influence the polls based on 500 interviews, extrapolated out to percent of whatever group is being looked at in the poll, that affect the way policy is developed and applied.
I am aware of the hiv/aids question you mention. Please remember that it is corporate money behind the studies as well as the politics.
You are young. And you sound like you would be an excellent candidate for some on the ground real life political experience. Get involved with a local cause that interests you...we need you. | |
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