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| | Why finding a partner is difficult.Page 1 of 2 (1, 2) | Recently, I found out that one of my female "friends" whom I went on an "outing" with is actually in a relationship, when I bumped into her at the supermarket one evening with her boyfriend. Sucks to be me. I was taking things slowly, getting to know her, talking, and sharing personal stories.
The same evening, 5 minutes later right after meeting my friend, I get a date with a girl I just met in the streets.
Is it always like this? Do women prefer to date guys they meet at unusual places but appear to have a problem with dating men who have common ground with them? Because under my experience it seems so.
It was the same when I met my EX-Girlfriend. I met her at an unusual place, and then we hit off.
I would like to propose a theory based upon my observations, The Cinderella-Prince Charming Illusion Syndrome. Young girls are indoctrinated at a young age by film companies such as Disney to believe that, just like Cinderella's prince, the man of their dreams must be hard to find. Therefore they are more likely to filter out great men who appear in their lives on a regular basis whom they feel good with, and put them in a imaginary zone called "just friends". While men of similar caliber met at unusual/least expected/forbidden places are thrown under the category of "Potential Prince Charming", simply due to the fact that these men are not regularly met on a scheduled basis.
Both groups of men are most likely similar in their potential as a mate, but the ones who are perceived as scarce will get first pick. It is the effect of perceived scarcity, a perception created by the media stating that good men are not to be expected. Good men are not rare, or even difficult to find. They do not live in magical unattainable fairy land.
REAL MEN most likely live right next to you.(I see this complaint a lot, "Where are the REAL MEN"?) We are conditioned to think that good things are out of reach, and never within reach or under our eyes. If women accepted more dates from people who they throw under the "just friends" category, they are more likely to find a true partner instead of accepting dates from random guys, like me, on the streets. | |
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| Why finding a partner is difficult. Posted: 3/6/2010 8:40:18 AM | Sometimes I wish I could find my long term partner in one of the most unusual, and random places.
Even some random spots like gas stations, grocery outlets, libraries, or even that guy living right next door to me if he fits what I want in a partner.
Those people you "speak" of OP, I doubt they intended to find a partner in random and unsual places. More than likely, it is/was something that 'just happened'.
As for throwing men under the bus, and putting them in the "friend zone", if these men don't fit what some women are looking for, then off he goes. Perhaps she could give him a shot by getting to know him further, but whos to say that she hasn't done that already?
Some people just aren't a good match. | |
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| Why finding a partner is difficult. Posted: 3/6/2010 8:42:15 AM |
If women accepted more dates from people who they throw under the "just friends" category, they are more likely to find a true partner Conversely, if guys stopped putting out the "just friends" vibe, they'd be more likely to find a partner for a romantic relationship. | |
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| Why finding a partner is difficult. Posted: 3/6/2010 9:23:31 AM |
The same evening, 5 minutes later right after meeting my friend, I get a date with a girl I just met in the streets. You ever think what pushed you was anger over your friend? That you really just got a date more as retribution (in your own head) for a seeming rejection by your "friend?" Therefore you didn't really care if you were rejected by the new girl, because she never really mattered to you at all? Therefore your confidence was greater and you didn't become a victim to fear because you didn't care if you "lost"?
Is it always like this? People not knowing what is motivating them, just looking at the consequences of behavior thinking that they are the motives? Yes, at least based on the forums.
Do women prefer to date guys they meet at unusual places but appear to have a problem with dating men who have common ground with them? Beats me. I am not a woman, and I don't trust 90% of what people say. I am not sure if you mean common ground or history. If a date is going to happen, it's going to happen immediately. People that play with the "friend" label are only looking for control, or to use people.
The Cinderella-Prince Charming Illusion Syndrome. Young girls are indoctrinated at a young age by film companies such as Disney to believe that, just like Cinderella's prince, the man of their dreams must be hard to find. You ever think that the film companies aren't really entities in themselves (except legally), that the films are made by people? The ideas for the movies had to come from people?
Therefore the films are more of a symptom of an underlying cause in general social change? Leading to simple reinforcement of the "problem"? That the little girls were going to be taught that no matter if they saw the films or not? It's just far far easier to point to something external that everyone can see and say "there! That's the bad guy! Everyone get it!"
Not to mention Prince Charming isn't hard to find. He's spending the entire movie looking for her. So sit back and wait for him to come. Which came first? Women waiting for men to come to them? To expect men to be the pursuers and aggressors? Or Disney movies?
Plus how do you explain so many single parents? I mean it's always the wicked step parent, right? So why are so many single parents looking to get hitched or date again if they've been indoctrinated by Disney movies to see step people as evil? Does that mean all single parents that date or get married again hate their kids?
If women accepted more dates from people who they throw under the "just friends" category, they are more likely to find a true partner instead of accepting dates from random guys, like me, on the streets. Women offer the "just friends" category because they don't want to date you. But if they flat out reject you, that may lead to judgment. Better to offer the "gift" of friendship than be judged for rebuking another persons "gift" of romance. | |
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| Why finding a partner is difficult. Posted: 3/6/2010 9:26:44 AM | In another thread, a poster said when a guy puts her in the friend zone she politely tells him..., Thanks, but I have 'enough' friends... and explains that she needs Quality NOT Quantity when bringing new people into her life. | |
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| Why finding a partner is difficult. Posted: 3/6/2010 1:29:45 PM | In my opinion, this theory is the result of WAY overthinking the whole male-female dynamic. It's much simpler than all that.
To me, the theory reads as just another case of trying to find, in "the OTHERS," "THE reason" for lack of success in getting what one wants.
Surely the problem doesn't lie within, so it must be THEM. <--- This is sarcasm.
A short list of the shallow, immoral, deceitful, manipulative, controlling, and/or stupid "REASONS" women (AS A GROUP) reject men (IN THE PARTICULAR), according to some male posters in these forums (many repeated over and over ad nauseum):
the man is too short (according to one poster, anything under 6' is "short" to women!) the man is not rich the man doesn't have a "professional"/prestigious/well-paying job the man is not George Clooney/Brad Pitt handsome the man is bald (oddly enough, it seems to be men with hair who bring this one up) the man doesn't have a nice car the man has/doesn't have a particular level of education the man has/doesn't have religion
women think they are princesses women think their taco is the end all-be all women are stuck up women are too picky women are unrealistic women are illogical women are gold-diggers women are too dumb for their own good women are sheep who blindly follow what the media/society tells them to think/do I particularly enjoy how "the women" in these posts can somehow be both stupid/foolish/superficial AND clever/conniving/strategic all at the same time. Other than that, reading this crap gets SO old. It's also SO illogical.
Also illogical is "THE ANSWER" to this "problem." IF ONLY women would do what we would do if we were so very lucky as to get LOTS of interest! It's all about the numbers! Say yes to most messages. Message lots of us. Meet us. Date us. Do us.
Then we'd all be happily paired up. Or paired up, anyway.
This is how casinos make money on slot machines. They rely on people foolishly assuming that if they pull that lever or push that button enough times, they'll get a big payoff.
----------------------- What's really going on if you get friend-zoned: she, an individual person, likes you, also an individual person, but is just not that into you.
What's really going on if she rejects you after meeting/knowing you: she, an individual person, is just not into you, also an individual person.
What's really going on if she "rejects" your POF message(s): she, an individual person, can't see herself being into you. (You may also be writing to a fake profile, and it's a man or a kid.) | |
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| Why finding a partner is difficult. Posted: 3/6/2010 5:11:28 PM |
What's really going on if you get friend-zoned: she, an individual person, likes you, also an individual person, but is just not that into you.
"Just not that into you"? Boy, that was a long post just to admit you don't know either.
I maintain that the guy's confidence and how well he conveys it is what the woman uses to decide--whether she realizes it explicitly or not. | |
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| Why finding a partner is difficult. Posted: 3/6/2010 5:42:50 PM |
"Just not that into you"? Boy, that was a long post just to admit you don't know either. Exactly. The only person who fully knows is her. And she does know, whether she articulates it or not. It's the same for a man.
I maintain that the guy's confidence and how well he conveys it is what the woman uses to decide--whether she realizes it explicitly or not. I can't imagine that being the sole decision factor for the vast majority of women. I agree it is often a factor, but I think it's just one of several she may or may not consider. Once again, it's her individual decision-making.
To me, "just not that into you" is a fairly understandable shorthand expression. It means that a man or a woman does not find another person attractive enough (defined for themselves) in whatever relationship dimensions they desire (also defined for themselves, but may include physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, etc.). | |
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| Why finding a partner is difficult. Posted: 3/6/2010 6:00:07 PM |
but I think it's just one of several she may or may not consider.
OK, I'll qualify it a bit:
All other things between two prospects being equal, the more confident one has a much better chance of ending up in the relationship zone.
If confidence is judged equal between two prospects then any of the several other factors can come into play (physical, financial, disposition, etc.)
Without confidence, a man won't even get off the starting block. Unless she just takes pity on him.
Confidence is almost always the deciding factor. | |
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mibra
| | Joined: 8/30/2008 Msg: 11 | |
| Why finding a partner is difficult. Posted: 3/6/2010 7:16:39 PM |
I would like to propose a theory based upon my observations, The Cinderella-Prince Charming Illusion Syndrome. Young girls are indoctrinated at a young age by film companies such as Disney to believe that, just like Cinderella's prince, the man of their dreams must be hard to find. Therefore they are more likely to filter out great men who appear in their lives on a regular basis whom they feel good with, and put them in a imaginary zone called "just friends". While men of similar caliber met at unusual/least expected/forbidden places are thrown under the category of "Potential Prince Charming", simply due to the fact that these men are not regularly met on a scheduled basis.
Both groups of men are most likely similar in their potential as a mate, but the ones who are perceived as scarce will get first pick. It is the effect of perceived scarcity, a perception created by the media stating that good men are not to be expected. Good men are not rare, or even difficult to find. They do not live in magical unattainable fairy land.
This thread makes me to remember an old friend in high school.... He seems that kind of Disney guy lol --- young and hot, making lots money, one of the richest in town, works hard, well-educated, good manners, blablabla... We were used to travel, fix computers, play tennis and badminton together. Parents thought we were dating. We never discussed to get closer at all. I just don't feel the chemistry. However, our friendship was done 10 years ago because his wife was mad of his "friends". Last year I met him again at his parents' home, we were laughing and joking as before. His parents asked me "What do you think of my son? Is he still not qualified for you?" I don't know what to say... No chemistry? However I told them he's too good for me lol. I think that's funny.... I found a man and failed in that marriage. I keep searching for Mr.Right but he's never the one I want to take. I think that's my problem. If you meet this kind of girls again, don't waste time on them because it won't work out. Take them as friends; it is fun to hang out with them but no future ...  | |
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| Why finding a partner is difficult. Posted: 3/8/2010 5:58:46 AM | it's not always like anything, because there are too many variables when it comes to relationships and how, where, and why they form or don't form. however, i noticed you took the time to conclude your post by blaming women for what enough of them aren't doing right as a means to explain why you are apparently dissatisfied with your relationships or there the lack thereof.
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| Why finding a partner is difficult. Posted: 3/8/2010 6:47:17 AM |
I was taking things slowly, getting to know her, talking, and sharing personal stories.
This is how you get put into the, "friend zone". Let me clue you in here, any women you want to have a relationship with is not a, "friend". Do not treat them as such. You've had a girlfriend and should know this by now.
The same evening, 5 minutes later right after meeting my friend, I get a date with a girl I just met in the streets.
Obviously, you didn't treat this one as a friend, great job!
Young girls are indoctrinated at a young age by film companies such as Disney to believe that, just like Cinderella's prince, the man of their dreams must be hard to find.
Well, I think is partially true. However, if you look at adult romantic comedies, another form of indoctrination, women are always pursuing guys. In addition, the main medium for romantic movies is friction, only through friction is true love found. Never, in a film is there romance without friction from either inside or outside forces. Yet, in real life, women don't usually pursue men. Granted, I have been pursued and I'm not saying it doesn't happen but it is certainly not the norm for average guys. So, the programming doesn't always produce results. This is why the flowers, candy, notes, etc don't work because the programming is only a guideline not a set of rules. Somewhere in between lies the answer, IMO.
You can argue about this till the cows come home but it's not going to get you women. The only thing that will is asking them out, forgetting everything you know and starting from scratch. | |
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| Why finding a partner is difficult. Posted: 3/8/2010 9:01:42 AM |
Therefore the films are more of a symptom of an underlying cause in general social change? Leading to simple reinforcement of the "problem"? That the little girls were going to be taught that no matter if they saw the films or not?
Agree, this theory is a bunch of bunk...its a symptom, not the disease. I blame it more on 3 generations growing up trying to "do better" than their parents and it was so easy it became just what people do. Even though in most of human history you did the exact same thing as their parents. It wasnt exactly hard for my grandparents to do better than my depression era great grandparents. My parents benefited greatly from the post ww2 wealth creation and it was cakewalk to do better than their parents. They raised kids though thinking that it was entirely natural for your kids to "move up" without effort like how they had it. Of course little suzy was going to bag the handsome lawyer someday and little johny is going to find a beautiful 9, with a great job who loves kids while being a king pin of finance himself... Too high of expectations and spending capital forward because the prince is right around the corner is why so many people are so unhappy in relationships and kind of why we blew out the economy last year. | |
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| Why finding a partner is difficult. Posted: 3/8/2010 6:02:42 PM | If women accepted more dates from people who they throw under the "just friends" category, they are more likely to find a true partner instead of accepting dates from random guys, like me, on the streets.
WTF Why do you have a problem with this? I rather be friends first anyways. I wouldn't want to jump into a relationship without knowing them well. People are looking too hard and wanting it too bad. Love comes when you're NOT looking so darn hard. It will be unexpected.
Stop blaming other people for your failure, man up, take responsibility.
LOL just friends vibe it's must be a female thing I never heard of such nonsense. | |
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| Why finding a partner is difficult. Posted: 3/8/2010 10:40:07 PM | Yes, OP, the phenomena you're witnessing is that of women preferring to view a new, hazy glass where only half the water can be seen as potentially "full", while considering a half-full glass which they've inspected up and down as being hopelessly limited to "half-empty". You're brand new to the girl in the street/ You're old news to your friend with whom you've spent ample time with having failed to build attraction. You need to quickly understand this concept and figure how to implement it into your own romantic life.
This is the basic attraction towards "dating" in itself! The unknown gets the mind racing. How many failure stories have you read on these forums of women meeting men- who looked promising initially, and whom the women had built rapport and were excited about meeting- that turned out to be horrible dates? Now think how many decent dudes those women must know and have let pass in their personal lives that would've probably made better than 'horrible' dates. >> It was the allure of the possibility of the 'spectacular' that led these women to pass over the decent men in their lives and instead agree to dates with men who turned out to be horrible.
This is the same reason that the logic of 'Hey darling, i'm a decent guy who's looking for sex, why not give me a chance? You said the last few guys you've dated left you after the sex- after having told you all sorts of lies to convince you of a future. We'll, i'm a decent guy, and at least i'm not lying to you. Why not go with a guy who tells you he's only looking for sex upfront, that way you wont have to worry about being disappointed? Makes sense right?'. -You know why this doesn't work? Because women want to believe in a dream. They'd rather go for gold and fall on their faces 10 straight times, than go for the guaranteed silver. Understand that women would rather risk big with the guy who may give them the perfect relationship, than have a 'good' relationship with the guy who comes with little to no risk. This is partly explained in the notion that (most) women want one guy to be with. They want one great guy to be with, and there is no second option. In other words, being a good guy is similar to being a loser. You're either great or you're unworthy (relative to a woman's own social value match pairing). As a man you have to realize this, and present yourself to succeed with this demand in mind.
-- This only changes when a woman grows older and realizes that settling is better than being alone. However, while in their prime, most women never settle for someone whom she assumes is not 'great'. | |
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| Why finding a partner is difficult. Posted: 3/9/2010 5:14:55 PM | You went on an "outing" with a "friend", and you're bitter that she's dating someone who probably took her out on a real date? When I get friendship vibes from a guy, I tend to think of him as a friend. I think most people think of others that way when that's what they're getting from someone.
Here's another theory: When you meet someone online, you have no idea whether you'll be attracted to them in person or whether you'll hit it off at all. Sometimes, you can have great e-mails and feel like you're really on the same wavelength, and then have a date where it's clear that you really don't have much in common in person. Whereas if you bump into someone in person, you already know whether you feel attracted to them as they are in the world, and as you're likely to interact with them. And maybe this guy wasn't getting to know her as "friends".
If women accepted more dates from people who they throw under the "just friends" category, they are more likely to find a true partner instead of accepting dates from random guys, like me, on the streets.
Sorry, I'm both 1) not at all responsible for your situation or bitterness, and 2) not going to date people with whom I feel no chemistry just so they can feel better about themselves. If we don't have chemistry, it's not going to be the relationship I want, and don't we all deserve someone who thinks we're the hottest thing ever? | |
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| Why finding a partner is difficult. Posted: 3/9/2010 6:13:14 PM | Everybody continues to express their ideas on this subject as if attraction is a choice that women make! It's not! Simple as that! they don't pick John over Frank based on some criteria! No, they feel attraction for John and have less or none for Frank!
Young guys go on about how they go to the same school, listen to the same music and play the same games as a girl, so she SHOULD be interested, and older "Nice" men go on about their good jobs, expensive car and responsible lifestyle, thinking once again that women SHOULD be interested in them. They are both missing the point. All these things have NOTHING AT ALL to do with the female attraction process! | |
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| Why finding a partner is difficult. Posted: 3/9/2010 6:45:16 PM | I don't think it' difficult to find a partner at all.
Everyone could basically find a partner in a few days or weeks.
However, it can better to: -stay single (feel better as single than with this partner), or -may find a better partner (feel better with partner A than with partner B) | |
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| Why finding a partner is difficult. Posted: 3/9/2010 11:12:25 PM | Sorry but I beg to differ OP. .... Simply put: If I feel a man is dating material for me, I would be dating him already. ... A guy in the friend-zone category is an obvious fact enough in itself that that is all there is.
Putting him in the "dating zone" category is not going to magically change anything for me. | |
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| Why finding a partner is difficult. Posted: 3/10/2010 1:45:59 AM | ^Absolutely forumflounder, this is what women do (also fourmflounder- a woman who feels a man is 'dating material' yet the man does not of her may find herself placed in the friendzone: where upon many women are lead into FWB and bootycall relationships). But what gets me is why men content themselves with anything appearing to look like a 'friends-zone' at all. You're either dating a woman/having sex with her, or you're just friends. What is this 'friend zone' shit?
If you've done your mating dance for a woman, and two weeks go by and she isn't yet your girl it means she is not interested in dating you. What are guys doing by chilling in limbo with a woman? What the hell are you even thinking about when you do this? | |
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| Why finding a partner is difficult. Posted: 3/10/2010 7:47:12 AM | Ah yes, the friend zone shit! lol I have a number of female friends. I don't fuk them and don't want to.
Now the friend zone shit is when a man is "supposedly" friends with a woman, but really wants to fuk her! She probably and most likely knows this and has this seperate and distinct category for these types! I think it empowers some women!
It's quite pathetic actually! Particularly the men! | |
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| Why finding a partner is difficult. Posted: 3/10/2010 7:53:52 AM |
Sorry, I'm both 1) not at all responsible for your situation or bitterness, and 2) not going to date people with whom I feel no chemistry just so they can feel better about themselves.
I have actually had to say this to one or two people in the past. While the vast majority of people whom don't spark my interest are good people, they just aren't who I am looking for. Some people get bitter over rejection! | |
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| Why finding a partner is difficult. Posted: 3/10/2010 11:59:19 AM |
REAL MEN most likely live right next to you.(I see this complaint a lot, "Where are the REAL MEN"?) Sweetie, it doesn't matter if a real man is standing/living SO next to me,that he's standing on the hem of my jeans! If he is not a man with who I feel chemistry, shared values,compatibility( that's NOT the same as "having a lot in common",LOL) then it's not gonna work as well as I want, for as long as I want-and if he isn't feeling the same way about me, well, that's the way the cookie crumbles. We don't have enough "potential for being a match" to try and create a "relationship". We might be friends, activity partners,maybe even FwBs in the right set of circumstances,but that is a subject that has to be clearly understood by both people. And no, finding a partner is not at all difficult, if all you require is an absence of mental pathology and the appropriate type of genetalia,and you don't much care if it lasts any length of time.
Therefore they are more likely to filter out great men who appear in their lives on a regular basis whom they feel good with, and put them in a imaginary zone called "just friends". While men of similar caliber met at unusual/least expected/forbidden places are thrown under the category of "Potential Prince Charming", simply due to the fact that these men are not regularly met on a scheduled basis. It doesn't matter how "great " a guy is, if the physical,emotional, intellectual and sexual chemistry isn't present and mutual, it's not gonna happen and last.
I'm sorry dude. Just because you have a penis, a job and your face doesn't break mirrors, spook horses and make little kids cry...doesn't mean that every single woman with a vagina who happens to be in your age range and physical vicinity, should be willing to create a longterm relationship with you. And it doesn't have a freakin' thing to do with "scarcity" or "fairy tales"...it's about that special mutual chemistry and connection. Oh yes, I won't deny that there are sad, desperate, needy people who will ignore that absence of special connection&chemistry, and take up with the first acceptable man or woman that approaches them...is THIS what YOU want?? Cindy O | |
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