| | "Everybody Draw Mohammed Day" set for May 20thPage 1 of 10 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10) | In response to an Islamic terrorist group threatening violence because of a South Park episode they said was insulting to Mohammed ( a threat which Comedy Central responded to by making cuts in the episode... way to show freedom of speech there, Comdey Central; make sure you dispose of your cojones in a proper bio waste receptacle) a Seattle cartoonist proposes "Everybody Draw Mohammed Day" take place May 20th. Here's the link:
http://www.mynorthwest.com/?nid=11&sid=313170
The only thing I can draw with any degree of accuracy is an X-Wing fighter from Star Wars, so I'm picturing Mohammed as a Rambo-like figure ( in turban rather than a bandanna) piloting an X-Wing fighter. | |
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| Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th Posted: 5/4/2010 1:51:20 PM | Way to advocate "Hey, let's just stir the pot some more and GO OUT OF OUR WAY to DELIBERATELY AND MALICIOUSLY offend others and ridicule their beliefs"...
The entire concept reeks of juvenile malice and school-yard temperment... A whole lot of society really needs to grow up beyond being 9-15 years old...
And to think, some wonder WHY the pot won't settle down... | |
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| Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th Posted: 5/4/2010 1:58:26 PM | Yes, the point IS to deliberately strike a blow for freedom of expression.
This isn't an immature response in order to offend others. It is a rational response to threats of violence. Think, "I am Spartacus."
If a government had killed artists or documentary makers who made works they didn't like, you'd be in complete support of anyone who stood up. Just because the motivation religious doesn't make the attempt to intimidate commendable or worthy of our consideration. | |
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| Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th Posted: 5/4/2010 1:58:33 PM | ^^^ Christianity & Hebrew faiths are often satirized & poked fun at by networks with no worries about offending members of those faiths. But suddenly because it may be offensive to followers of Islam we have to be culturally aware & not risk offense; to the point where an anonymous complaint will take control of what is broadcast?
It's a matter of free speech & not letting a small radical group control what will & won't be shown by the media.
OR the networks can ensure they poke no fun ( satirical or otherwise) at ANY faith & not just Islam. | |
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| Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th Posted: 5/4/2010 2:08:59 PM |
But suddenly because it may be offensive to followers of Islam we have to be culturally aware & not risk offense; to the point where an anonymous complaint will take control of what is broadcast? First... THAT'S not what I said... If individuals with a specific point to be made... e.g. a political cartoon... want to make their point then THAT is freedom of speech in practice...
THIS isn't that... This is no more than "National Na-Na-Boo-Boo Day"... THIS is a DELIBERATE and MALICIOUS effort to thumb noses and stick out tongues for no other reason than thumbing noses and sticking out tongues...
This is NOT defence of free speech because, no matter how much someone wants to scream "I'm offended" or "You **stard, I'll kill you" they DO NOT have the power to prevent the author from exercising his free speech rights...
This is NOT an exercise in resisting gov't intrusion on free speech... This is an exercise in "Na-Na-Boo-Boo, Look what I did, I HOPE you're offended! Whatcha gonna do about it, huh, huh?"... | |
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| Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th Posted: 5/4/2010 2:17:23 PM |
This is NOT an exercise in resisting gov't intrusion on free speech
There was no govt. intrusion on free speech implied, it was a small militant group using threats to get their way; next I suppose it won't be enough that they felt offended by satire, they'll want a show that espouses how great their faith is, & if it isn't shown then they'll threaten violence.
Btw by making a comment on "resisting govt. intrusion on free speech" sounds like you don't have a problem with non-govt. intrusion on free speech.... could be just my misinterpretation though.
Any intrusion on any sort of free speech should be resisted.
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| Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th Posted: 5/4/2010 2:33:15 PM |
As Hannah Arendt once observed: “Under conditions of terror, most people will comply but some people will not. ... Humanly speaking, no more is required, and no more can reasonably be asked, for this planet to remain a place fit for human habitation.” | |
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| Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th Posted: 5/4/2010 2:34:06 PM | There was no govt. intrusion on free speech implied, it was a small militant group using threats to get their way And how does that infringe on your or anyone else's exercise of free speech... Is there a law or something OTHER than your own choice as to whether you will cease to do it or not...?
next I suppose it won't be enough that they felt offended by satire, they'll want a show that espouses how great their faith is, & if it isn't shown then they'll threaten violence.
Nice red herring, supporting your point by "supposing"... And what if someone DOES demand...? How does THAT force you to do so...?
Btw by making a comment on "resisting govt. intrusion on free speech" sounds like you don't have a problem with non-govt. intrusion on free speech.... could be just my misinterpretation though.
Any intrusion on any sort of free speech should be resisted. Free speech is not what this imagines it to be... The only group that CAN infringe on your free speech is the gov't... You do NOT have the "right of free speech" to say whatever you please in MY house... You do NOT have the "right of free speech" to say whatever you please at work (Test this, start referring to your boss as "cornholeo" to his/her face every day. How much "right of free speech" do you think you will have?)...
The mere act of someone saying "I'm offended" or "you **stard, I'll kill you for that" is NOT an infringement on your "right of free speech"... It does NOT stop you from exercising your opinion to ANY greater degree than YOU ALLOW it to...
If a business CHOOSES to not print/air things it believes will offend and drive away its customers... like a newspaper or tv station... THAT is ENTIRELY within their rights to do and it is NOT an infringement on YOUR free speech... Even if it is your work they refuse to print/air... And that is because it is THEIR business, NOT yours...
No... Encouraging a "National Deliberately Offend a Group Day" is NOT an exercise in protecting free speech... It IS a childish, immature, juvenile, under-developed ego exercise in "Na-Na-Boo-Boo, Look what I did, I HOPE you're offended! Whatcha gonna do about it, huh, huh?"... It IS identical to a school-yard argument... | |
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| Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th Posted: 5/4/2010 2:35:28 PM | There was a British woman who was teaching in a Muslim country-sorry don't know all the details, and she was doing a writing exercise in which the children had to call a bear a name.The name that was chosen for the bear was Mohammed. Because-again-i don't know details-I think its against Islam to name an animal or inanimate object, Mohammed-the woman was arrested and put in custody and could have been lashed for it.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7112929.stm
Theres a link with actual information about it.
I have no idea if it says in the bible a similar thing about Jesus Christ but I know people use the Lords name in vain and thats not a christian thing to do. | |
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| Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th Posted: 5/4/2010 2:36:26 PM |
First... THAT'S not what I said... If individuals with a specific point to be made... e.g. a political cartoon... want to make their point then THAT is freedom of speech in practice...
Ohhhh so anything not meant to make a specific point ISN'T freedom of speech, gee thanks for clearing that up. I wasn't aware that you were the sole arbiter of what does & doesn't constitute "free speech".
THIS isn't that... This is no more than "National Na-Na-Boo-Boo Day"... THIS is a DELIBERATE and MALICIOUS effort to thumb noses and stick out tongues for no other reason than thumbing noses and sticking out tongues
Actually, only some ( not all) would take offence at the proposed action. And the "some" shouldn't have control of what we can see hear & read. Particularly when their method of getting their way is violence. | |
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| Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th Posted: 5/4/2010 2:48:30 PM |
Encouraging a "National Deliberately Offend a Group Day" is NOT an exercise in protecting free speech... It IS a childish, immature, juvenile, under-developed ego exercise in "Na-Na-Boo-Boo, Look what I did, I HOPE you're offended! Whatcha gonna do about it, huh, huh?"... It IS identical to a school-yard argument
Actually, the drawing of Mohammed don't have to be offensive, they can be respectful ( only a small group of Islamics view making an image of Mohammed a sin, based on how they interpret the Quoran ( not sure I spelled that right).
And even if the drawings are juvenile & mocking, the fact that the drawings were made doesn't force those who may be offended to view them. If a TV show or movie seems tobe soemthing that I would find offensive I simply don't watch; I don't call the stationor theatre & threaten violence because it may offend me.
The actions of the group that threatened Comedy Central ( I'd like to know how many of that group even watch South Park) is a group of morons sayin, in essence:
" we don't like what you are showing, we think it's offensive ( they came by this decision without even having viewed the episode in question) and because WE think it's offensive & don't want to see it, no one else should be allowed to see it either.... and if you show it we'll kill you".
And even if you are right, & it devolves to ""Na-Na-Boo-Boo, Look what I did, I HOPE you're offended! Whatcha gonna do about it, huh, huh? so what? Free speech means free speech even if some are offended. It doesn't mean you can say & show whatever you want, as long as everyone agrees with it.
Free speech doesn't carry with it the obligation for others to listen to the speech. | |
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| Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th Posted: 5/4/2010 2:52:21 PM |
. The only group that CAN infringe on your free speech is the gov't.
You're not really going to try to defend that are you? There are death squads and their silenced victims in Central America that stand as testimony that you're wrong. The Catholic Church silenced heretics for centuries. The entire purpose of the violence and threat of violence by some religious zealots is to silence any expression they don't like.
Unless we are willing to stand up and offend them, they win. | |
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| Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th Posted: 5/4/2010 2:54:17 PM | Ohhhh so anything not meant to make a specific point ISN'T freedom of speech, gee thanks for clearing that up. I wasn't aware that you were the sole arbiter of what does & doesn't constitute "free speech". A "strawman"... Please make a rebuttal that actually addresses the point rather than making up a meaning out of thin air...
Actually, only some ( not all) would take offence at the proposed action. And the "some" shouldn't have control of what we can see hear & read. That SOME DOESN'T control what you see or hear... It is the BUSINESS OWNER who ACTUALLY OPERATES the business, radio, tv, newspaper, that makes that decision... And, it is ENTIRELY within their rights and control to make that decision... It is THEIR choice to print/air material based on what THEY think will be best for THEIR business... Why should THEY have their "right of free speech" infringed by having to print/air whatever YOU want to hear/see even if THEY decide it will be bad for business...?
I wouldn't mind seeing a whole lot more "fat broad" jokes in print and on the air... Does that mean the papers and tv stations HAVE to print/air them...? If they don't, does it mean we should we have a "National Make Fun of a Fat Broad Day" to "protect" our "right of free speech"...? Of course it doesn't and whether they do or not depends on what THEY think will be best for THEIR business...
You're not really going to try to defend that are you? There are death squads and their silenced victims in Central America that stand as testimony that you're wrong. The Catholic Church silenced heretics for centuries. Yes, I am... Central American death squads were ALL either surreptitious gov't organizations or supported/used by gov'ts that wanted them to do so... And, at the time the Catholic Church was silencing heretics, they WERE, essentially, the gov't... Neither could have succeeded otherwise...
The entire purpose of the violence and threat of violence by some religious zealots is to silence any expression they don't like. And whether you personally, or any particular business, is cowed by the threats into not printing/airing the material is a CHOICE THEY make... There is nothing such a group can do to prevent it "forever and a day" unless YOU allow them to prevent you from doing it... Screaming "you bastard, I'll kill you if you do" DOES NOT stop you from doing it unless YOU allow it to... | |
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| Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th Posted: 5/4/2010 3:06:56 PM |
That SOME DOESN'T control what you see or hear... It is the BUSINESS OWNER who ACTUALLY OPERATES the business, radio, tv, newspaper, that makes that decision... And, it is ENTIRELY within their rights and control to make that decision... It is THEIR choice to print/air material based on what THEY think will be best for THEIR business... Why should THEY have their "right of free speech" infringed by having to print/air whatever YOU want to hear see even if THEY decide it will be bad for business...?
Yes, it was their choice whether or not to show the offending pice. They chose not to, in effect telling the brave members of the group that threatened violence anonymously that they can win want they want with threats & acts of violence. Score 1 for terrorists.
With this said & done, the cartooonist has proposed the "draw Mohammed day" as a way to thumb noses at those who would use violence & threats to attempt to get what they want. It's another form of free speech, and some people may choose to exercise their right to free speech by participating. If some may take offence at these drawings, here's a radical suggestion for them : don't look. | |
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| Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th Posted: 5/4/2010 3:16:17 PM |
With this said & done, the cartooonist has proposed the "draw Mohammed day" as a way to thumb noses at those who would use violence & threats to attempt to get what they want. It's another form of free speech, and some people may choose to exercise their right to free speech by participating. Yes, it is free speech... He and anyone else can produce pieces others find offensive... But THAT is not what was proposed in the OP... To remind you
In response to an Islamic terrorist group threatening violence because of a South Park episode they said was insulting to Mohammed ( a threat which Comedy Central responded to by making cuts in the episode... way to show freedom of speech there, Comdey Central; make sure you dispose of your cojones in a proper bio waste receptacle) a Seattle cartoonist proposes "Everybody Draw Mohammed Day" take place May 20th. Here's the link: You asserted that the stations unwillingness to air it was a "free speech issue" (which it is, but not in the way you expressed it. Free speech also means the right to NOT say/print/air something)...
And the cartoonist's proposal isn't a "defense of free speech" matter either (there are plenty of places that have and do say/print/air things others foind offensive. He can take his material to any one of those and get it printed/aired)... It is nothing short of an exercise in "Na-Na-Boo-Boo, Look what I did, I HOPE you're offended! Whatcha gonna do about it, huh, huh?"... Pure school-yard and nothing more... | |
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| Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th Posted: 5/4/2010 3:21:20 PM | When is National P*ss on Jesus Day, or National Smash Statues of Mother Mary Day, National Poop in the Baptismal Day?
I think if people walked into most churches in America and did any of these things they would find some violently offended people. But, it would be "free speech". | |
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| Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th Posted: 5/4/2010 3:28:50 PM | And the cartoonist's proposal isn't a "defense of free speech" matter either (there are plenty of places that have and do say/print/air things others foind offensive. He can take his material to any one of those and get it printed/aired)
Oh, so you're saying free speech is allowed, but only at certain venues? If it's at OTHER venues it isn't free speech?
The point is that free speech MAY be offensive to some people, but that isn't a reason to curtail it. | |
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| Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th Posted: 5/4/2010 3:33:21 PM | Oh, so you're saying free speech is allowed, but only atcertain venues. If it's at OTHER venues it isn't free speech? Again with the strawman... Please try to respond to the actual point rather than making one up out of thin air...
The point is that free speech MAY be offensive to some people, but that isn't a reason to curtail it. But... unless he owns his own printing company/tv station... He is going to have to live with going to those who choose to print/air his stuff... Contrary to what you imply, there is no "right to have your free speech printed/aired by others who feel their business may suffer because of it"...
Businesses are not required to print/air your "free speech" just because you want them to... That is THEIR right to choose, not yours... And it is NOT "curtailing free speech" for exactly that reason... THEIR choice, NOT YOURS... | |
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| Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th Posted: 5/4/2010 3:49:56 PM |
But... unless he owns his own printing company/tv station... He is going to have to live with going to those who choose to print/air his stuff... Contrary to what you imply, there is no "right to have your free speech printed/aired by others who feel their business may suffer because of it"...
No, but if it is going to be aired, an anonymous group[ shouldn't be able to prevent it with threats, that's the whole point.
If you want to discuss strawman, take a look atyour own constant use of
This is no more than "National Na-Na-Boo-Boo Day"... THIS is a DELIBERATE and MALICIOUS effort to thumb noses and stick out tongues for no other reason than thumbing noses and sticking out tongues
to describe the proposed draw Mohammed day. Maybe it will devolve to that level, but so what? Free speech means free speech, and doesn't come with a list of what does & doesn't constitute free speech. We can't make arbitrary decisions on what is & isn't free speech.
A lot of what people will spew out is pointless but they have the right to spew it out.
As Voltire said "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
Businesses are not required to print/air your "free speech" just because you want them to... That is THEIR right to choose, not yours..
Yes, and free speech doesn't carry with it the compulsory follow up that people have to listen to it. You have the right to say what you want, we don't have the obligation to listen nor does the media have the obligation to publish or broadcast it. | |
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| Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th Posted: 5/4/2010 4:09:19 PM | This is not only extremely juvenile and counter-productive, it's blatant xenophobia at it's worse. I can't believe the level of stupidity and hate that some Americans are resorting to. We are like the drunk that walks into the redneck bar and announces he had sex with everyone's mom and sisters and declares they are all whores. That will heal things with people who thought you were an ignoranus to begin with.
Whatever happened to maintaining the moral high ground and dignity? | |
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| Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th Posted: 5/4/2010 4:16:56 PM |
Whatever happened to maintaining the moral high ground and dignity?
Guess it got trumped when free speech was trumped by the threat of violence.
Free speech isn't always moral OR dignified, that's one of the things you have to accept if you want free speech.
And no one said the drawings of Mohammed have to be undignified. | |
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| Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th Posted: 5/4/2010 4:26:05 PM | I'm pretty sure I've seen the episode in question. If it's the same one I saw then what on Earth is anybody anywhere getting their panties in a twist about ? Any images of Mohamed are censored as part of the story's plot .
I'm not a Christian either but it seems to me that anybody who has spent a minute in a modern art gallery can attest , every day seems to be Piss-On-Jesus Day. As I recall , 20 years ago it was just about the only thing anybody claiming to be an artist could come up with . Sure , the Christians protested and the "liberal / Free Speech ! Free Speech ! Free Speech ! ..." crowd insisted that they had that right and people who were offended would just have to suck it up. My how times have changed. Today it's the "liberal" element's hardcore believers who support censorship because it's coming from a source they erroneously believe requires support and attention in the West. Further , as I recall , the problem wasn't that "artists" were showing Jesus giving a BJ , the problem was that those nasty right-wing Christians couldn't take a joke and put things in perspective .
Although I have no interest in religion really , I do know that what's good for the goose is good for the gander . I thought we'd finally learned a couple hundred years ago why free speech was so important. Is this abusing the idea ? Yup , it sure is. On the other hand , it's meant as a counter-point to censorship which validates the idea of Draw Mohammed Day . Do we live in an Islamic Theocracy ? No . Do we in the West have some obligation to follow the rules set down by hardcore Islamic fundamentalists ? No . Should we be afraid to stand up for our own beliefs ? No , of course not.
Who is infringing on whom here ? Are we supposed to be blown up if we don't acquiesce to ridiculous demands from people who don't share our belief system ? More importantly , why is a drawing such a crime ? Mohammed was an actual person , not a god . Am I to understand that if we knew what he looked like and somebody today happened to look just like him , that person would have to have either forced plastic surgery or a bullet to the head ? What if a child draws a picture of Mohammed ? Off to the docks I guess . And people defend THAT over freedom of speech ? Amazing. | |
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| Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th Posted: 5/4/2010 4:27:08 PM |
No, but if it is going to be aired, an anonymous group[ shouldn't be able to prevent it with threats, that's the whole point. That is the trap which you are falling into... Their complaints and threats DO NOT prevent it's being printed/aired... The choice of the publisher/station is what allows or prevents it... It is the publisher/station which prints/airs it or not, NOT the complainers... It IS the right of the publisher/station to make that decision for THEIR OWN REASONS...
The complainers DON'T prevent it because THEY aren't the ones who make the decision... And the basis on which the publisher/station makes THEIR choice is THEIR business...
A lot of what people will spew out is pointless but they have the right to spew it out. But NO publisher/station has an obligation to print/air it... And refusing to do so is NOT a curtailment of the author's free speech... It's a BUSINESS decison which they have every right to make...
As Voltire said "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." And I seriously doubt that means others HAVE TO print/air, or even listen to, it... Or that those offended by it CAN'T make their offense known, even if it leads to a PRIVATE DECISION that the speech will not be printed/aired by any given company...
If you want to discuss strawman, take a look atyour own constant use of
This is no more than "National Na-Na-Boo-Boo Day"... THIS is a DELIBERATE and MALICIOUS effort to thumb noses and stick out tongues for no other reason than thumbing noses and sticking out tongues
to describe the proposed draw Mohammed day. Because THAT is exactly what it is... It IS what the cartoonist wants to do, he just doesn't want to do it alone... Hence the proposal that a "Day" be set aside to do just that en masse...
The cartoonist is absolutely free to draw all the "mohammed" cartoons he wants and does not need a "Day" set aside for mass drawings to do it... | |
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| Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th Posted: 5/4/2010 4:45:44 PM |
I'm pretty sure I've seen the episode in question. If it's the same one I saw then what on Earth is anybody anywhere getting their panties in a twist about ? Any images of Mohamed are censored as part of the story's plot
I haven't seen the episode, but supposedly it was aired, with some deletions.
More importantly , why is a drawing such a crime ?
According to some Islamic scholars, it's only looked on as wrong by some sects ( just like there are various forms of Christianity), just like some forms of Islam say women need to be covered while outside while others don't. | |
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| Everybody Draw Mohammed Day set for May 20th Posted: 5/4/2010 4:58:31 PM | | hey poster #2.....[and several other posts you made in this thread].....guess what?.........i never declared war on that particular muslim group........however.....they DID declare war on me.......and my family..my friends , neighbors and EVERY OTHER AMERICAN!..................now you want me to bite my tounge IN MY COUNTRY......because i might offend someone who not only has stated they want me dead...but has demonstrated their willingness to see it done?.........sorry bud.....i'm an AMERICAN.....i stand proud and i dont run......you push me...............i push back | |
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