| Lilith in the Bible
Posted: 10/30/2004 10:19:09 AM | Lilith in the Bible and other ancient texts
Lilith's name only appears once in the Old Testament at Isaiah 34:14, where it is translated as "great owl" in the King James Version of the Bible, leading to Lilith often being portrayed in imagery as an owl (this interpretation has been disputed).
However, some interpret the passage in Genesis 1:27 — "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them" — before describing a mate being made of Adam's rib and being called Eve in Genesis 2:22, to mean that Adam had a wife before Eve, and that this could have been Lilith. However, this divergence is often explained as a careless weaving together of two discrete biblical creation myths, as the Bible describes man being created in both Genesis 1:26 and 2:27.
Lilith's name also appears in the Dead Sea Scrolls in passages that are based on the above-noted Isaiah reference, and in various places in the Talmud and the Zohar.
Lilith as Adam's first wife
The first clear reference to Lilith as the first wife of Adam is in an anonymous medieval work called The Alphabet of Ben-Sira. In it, Lilith is described as refusing to assume a subservient role to Adam during sexual intercourse and eventually deserted Adam. Lilith then went on to mate with Asmodai and various other demons she found beside the Red Sea, creating countless lilin. Adam urged God to bring Lilith back, so three angels were despatched after her. When the angels, Senoy, Sansenoy, and Semangelof, made threats to kill one hundred of Lilith's demonic children for each day she stayed away, she countered that she would prey eternally upon the descendants of Adam and Eve, who could be saved only by invoking the names of the three angels, and did not return to Adam.
This story has similarities with the original Mesopotamian myth, where Lilith killed children, and so the practice of protecting children by placing Lilith amulets around their necks with the names of the three angels became a custom of many Jewish communities in medieval times.
This legend was mistakenly included in an English language book of rabbinic works (the author seemingly assumed that any ancient book read in the Jewish community must have been a rabbinic work). However, contrary to popular belief, the The Alphabet of Ben-Sira is not a Jewish religious text; rather, it is a collection of perverse stories about heroes of the Bible and Talmud. Modern historians are unsure of its original purpose, although it may have been a collection of risqué folk-tales, a refutation of Christians, Karaites or other separatist movement, or simply an anti-Jewish satire.
Reference
Hypertext King James Version of the Bible, Book of Genesis
External links
International standard Bible Encyclopedia: Night-Monster
Jewish Encyclopedia: Lilith
An overview of the Lilith Mythos
A criticism of the Lilith myth in Jewish feminism
Halley Gal aka the Lilith of today,lol..
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yna6
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Joined: 5/2/2004
Msg: 2 | |
| Lilith in the Bible
Posted: 10/30/2004 10:30:49 AM | | I think the difference between man and Adam (mankind being created first) was that the creator was supposed to have "breathed life into him"...basically giving him a "soul" or self- awareness. (Ok,,,shoot me down for that one...) Then a "helpmate" names Eve was created from Adam, on the same level of awareness as he was. Maybe God wanted a caretaker for the garden who could think for himself? Who knows? | |
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| Lilith in the Bible
Posted: 10/30/2004 11:42:38 AM | | Lilith is the First Woman. She was created by God to be Adam's wife but she rejected Adam's authoritarian ways. She left the Garden of Eden. Long before Eve and the temptation and all that. Unlike all of humanity, she is immortal and according to scripture, she is the Queen of the Damned. | |
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| Lilith in the Bible
Posted: 10/30/2004 2:48:41 PM | blackmanx,
any information you would have on this is greatly appreciated!!
Halley Gal | |
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| Lilith in the Bible
Posted: 11/1/2004 6:30:19 PM | Lilith appears on numerous steele and roll carvings from Babylonian times. She pre-dates Gilgamesh stories. This surprizing, because she would be one of the pantheon of deities Gil would have loved to kill.
Lil's portrayal is not pleasant. She has Bird feet with nasty talons (usually holding a corpse), large wings and arms with talon-like fingers. She is naked and with big nasty pointy teeth. Grace Jones portrayed her in Vamp. Very very creepy, what a turn on-hence the cult of Lilith survives.
She is associated with child sacrifice and ritual male mutilation (castration, not circumsision). Other aspects of her personality surround fire and earthquakes according to Sumarian folklore.
She's a nasty b*itch. | |
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| Lilith in the Bible
Posted: 11/1/2004 7:01:59 PM | I have to hand it to you, Red...you got the gist of Lilith's personage in mentioning that she predates the Gilgamesh stories, and that she is associated with Babylonian myth as well as Sumerian.
There are some scholars of creation myths who place Lilith as having been a manifestation of the great goddess Innana (Sumeria--the name Innana means Queen of Heaven) and the great goddess of Babylonia--Ishtar...the Hebrews called her Ashtoreth, I think. But her original form was not evil. As the great goddess the particular aspect of transformation was in her perview. In the physical world, change is often seen through great destructive power, like floods, hurricanes, and such. It is in the aftermath of such change that rebirth or regrowth occurs. Think about the periodic wild fires that occur in the huge expanses of forests out west. Scientists believe that the fires are nature's way of regenerating new growth. (I'm not a scientist so don't be too hard on me if I don't get the terminology exactly right.)
Lilith became "evil" as a way of making sure that ancient people did not continue to follow the mother goddess religion. When the cultures of these ancient places shifted from matrifocal to patriarchal, a process similar to colonization took place. The old religion was replaced with the religion of the new dominant culture--in this case, the patriarchal father sky-god religion. True to form in any take over of a culture, if the religious beliefs can't be irradicated, then they are re-written (assimilated) to accomodate the new order. So...Lilith is no longer the great mother goddess--she becomes the devourerer of babies, and the temptress of young men.
Now, this view is my belief based on the work of the scholars I have read, who you probably will not find in your local bookstore. I posted some authors in another thread so I won't repeat here.
Namaste,
Serena | |
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| Lilith in the Bible
Posted: 11/1/2004 8:03:20 PM | Arrrgh! Wicans and Pangean Sophians!
Speculation, speculation, wishfull thinking psydo-academic musings, and oh yes, speculation.
But then again we are talking about religion. The whole purpose of which is to make a leap of faith to a system of beliefs larger than ourselves. Now it really gets interesting with archiology and hard physical evidence come into play. Is Lil the mother of man? Or a blood sucking sucubus. As I read the runes-she doesn't bode well. But then I'm just looking at all that he-man-woman-hating archiology. The REAL stuff is being suppressed. Praise Gia! | |
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| Lilith in the Bible
Posted: 11/1/2004 8:46:48 PM | Now, Red...be a gentleman...I didn't call you a devouring, linear, patriarchal colonizer...
The archeological evidence has always been there...the Acheulian goddess figure has been carbon dated at 230,000 to possibly 800,000 years old. The Willendorf Venus was previously the oldest divinity figurine at 20,000 years old. Now the mainstream archeological community says that these and countless other artifacts that support matrifocal mother goddess culture as the primary societal and religious makeup of prehistoric humans is not worth considering...why is that? Because they see those prehistoric cultures as primitive? cult-like? It's interesting to me that with so much amazingly similar archeological evidence in so many places all over the world, mother goddess culture is not given more consideration by mainstream academia.
But, as you point out, it is all speculation, even my beliefs and yours. Whatever Lilith was or was not, the search for the truth is what draws us all, isn't it? You are right:
"The whole purpose...is to make a leap of faith to a system of beliefs larger than ourselves."
Namaste,
Serena | |
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| Lilith in the Bible
Posted: 11/1/2004 10:18:11 PM | Touche and I'm done in with me own words! To this end I can only respond with me native land's own song..
"Ta Dia laidir agus ta Mathair mhaith Aige" - God is strong and He has a good Mother.
Think about it. | |
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| Lilith in the Bible
Posted: 11/1/2004 10:36:44 PM | You are too much and that's kewl. Thanks for the sparing. I'll leave with one last shot and tis for himself, yer poor suffern' husband...
"Deineann ceann ciallmhar baal iata"
- A sensible head makes a closed mouth.
All the best,
Kevin | |
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yna6
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Joined: 5/2/2004
Msg: 12 | |
| Lilith in the Bible
Posted: 11/1/2004 11:44:03 PM | | Lilith = change....pregnant woman =change....something to think about there.... | |
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| Lilith in the Bible
Posted: 11/2/2004 2:53:33 AM | Red...what makes you think my sweet husband suffers? There are some men who enjoy and welcome an independent woman. He happens to be one...
Namaste,
Serena | |
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| Lilith in the Bible
Posted: 11/2/2004 7:21:11 AM | As do I.
May the Saints preserve him.
I'm a bit curious as to why Lilith was brought up in the first place. Proximity to Halloween and vampires maybe? | |
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| Lilith in the Bible
Posted: 11/2/2004 8:56:48 AM | Lil's portrayal is not pleasant. She has Bird feet with nasty talons (usually holding a corpse), large wings and arms with talon-like fingers. She is naked and with big nasty pointy teeth. Grace Jones portrayed her in Vamp. Very very creepy, what a turn on-hence the cult of Lilith survives.
She is associated with child sacrifice and ritual male mutilation (castration, not circumsision). Other aspects of her personality surround fire and earthquakes according to Sumarian folklore.
AllThatRed ,wow ! Where do we hunt this alien ! Will magnetronic ray gun work? | |
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| Lilith in the Bible
Posted: 11/2/2004 9:32:56 AM | | On Grace Jones? hard to say. She is an Alien you know. | |
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| Lilith in the Bible
Posted: 11/2/2004 10:07:58 AM | | AllThatRed, Hi bro ! We may NOT war against flesh and blood-- God said so ! Paladin, FBI, and NSA get ticked off too ! How about some SPIRIT BEINGS ! You know--EXORCIST REAL TIME ! GREEN PUKE, Bible Confetti ! Any ideas? Do you have a ray gun ? HRF/Magnatronic ? | |
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| Lilith in the Bible
Posted: 11/2/2004 11:07:17 AM | | ahhh. boys and their toys....It's the mind that is the ultimate weapon. use it. | |
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| Lilith in the Bible
Posted: 11/2/2004 11:44:18 AM | AllThatRed, Wilco...
http://www.slonet.org/~rloomis/mypretty.wav
http://www.slonet.org/~rloomis/wizoz8.wav
http://www.slonet.org/~rloomis/wizoz25.wav
...I guess that meansno ray guns, Huh ? | |
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| Lilith in the Bible
Posted: 11/2/2004 12:07:08 PM | I never said I wasn't armed. Didn't you listen the Great and All Powerfull Oz? "Pay no attention to the man BEHIND the curtain!"
I love this site. So many neat, interesting and twisted people. | |
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| Lilith in the Bible
Posted: 11/2/2004 12:16:56 PM | "Ní torann tréan go tóirneach"
There is no strong (loud) noise to compare with thunder | |
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| Lilith in the Bible
Posted: 11/2/2004 12:23:37 PM | Red...
You wrote:
"I'm a bit curious as to why Lilith was brought up in the first place. Proximity to Halloween and vampires maybe? "
From what I'm observing, women seem to be reclaiming and searching out goddess lore for many reasons--soul searching, and feminist agendas among them. But you're probably correct that Samhain is influencing the fascination with the "dark feminine." At least we're searching and not simply accepting.
As for Miz Grace...Dolph Lundgren doesn't think she's an alien...he and Grace have been a couple for quite a long time, and still are, unless they recently split up. Seems he has an affinity for "exotics" too...
Alright...I guess I'm "done" with this thread...too bad...just when the discussion was getting interesting :-)
Serena | |
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| Lilith in the Bible
Posted: 11/2/2004 3:58:52 PM | Personally I'm a Bowie/Iman fan. I think they're fabulous!
Don't give up...It seems Halley gave up and she started this who thing...
I'm curious though...If there is this pent-up desire to rediscover the ancient Goddess Supreme, why is there no major movements or religious discussions. I'm sure somewhere on a campus with a womyn's studies department there is intense discussion, but in the coffee house, on the street, not much.... | |
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| Lilith in the Bible
Posted: 11/2/2004 5:04:24 PM | Red...
There are lots of discussions, and they are in the coffee houses and in the churches...well, UU churches at least. I think it takes a certain kind of woman to step onto this path and out of conditioned thinking. Most of us are just plain afraid of "losing everything", whatever that means. You have be just a little crazy and courageous with a touch of "I don't give a d*mn." Most of all you refuse to settle for living life by rules that don't fit who you are.
I also don't believe this is a pent-up desire that women have. We've been searching...it's a process just like everything else in life. We just haven't known where to look for answers.
Just another word on Lilith because I just want to...
Sufi mysticism embraces her as the "Dark Feminine." Her Shakti aspect is Kali who also was reshaped into a devouring bloodthirsty man-killer among other things. But her name comes from a Semitic root that means "night." The Sufis call her Layla and she is the power of love..."It is the dark feminine that loves in equal measure, that returns love, that draws one out of oneself and the ...(ecstatic state) of love..."(www.penkatali.org/lilith). The dark is not always bad. We need the dark. Seeds germinate in the dark, our bodies rest and regenerate at night. Even more important, the dark is not a whole, but just a part, a piece of a unified whole. As such, the dark aspect is necessary and should be welcomed not villified and shunned
Serena | |
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yna6
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Joined: 5/2/2004
Msg: 25 | |
| Lilith in the Bible
Posted: 11/2/2004 11:52:05 PM | | It's not just women but men too! Lots of Wiccans coming out of the closet nowadays. More and more people searching for answers, and, of course, you can usually find plenty in any "New-Age" store....or even a bookstore! | |
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