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| | G8 in Muskoka and G20 in TorontoPage 1 of 3 (1, 2, 3) | So here are a couple of good questions about these events. I am surprised that given the level of media surrounding these events that no one has yet posted something regarding them.
Firstly, over 450 MILLION dollars have been paid to the RCMP for security. That's right. That's out of a close to 1 BILLION dollar price tag on security alone. What exactly did the tax payer get for this? It sounds to me like a boondoggle.
As one commentator to the CBC Web forums noted:
Last September, Pittsburgh hosted a G20 summit that resulted in no great breaches of public order but whose security-related costs totaled only about $12.2 million (U.S.) — less than 1.5 per cent of the projected costs of the summits in Toronto and Huntsville
Give me my tax dollars back you are wasting my money
Effing Pittsburgh.
So what's the deal?
Secondly and more importantly, what are the REAL origins of the so-called "Black Bloc" protesters?
Ordinarily I cringe at using any reference from Alex Jones as his capacity to mingle fantasy with reality seems unbounded...however, the best way to get at the truth is look at both ends of the story and sift your way to the middle, so for your edification, we have these links:
Delta Force Sponsors Agent Provocateurs/Black Bloc at Seattle WTO demonstrations Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mAWslHmiok
Part II
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0POPVIX6sf0&feature=related
Part III
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgxR9hQ2cb0&feature=related
Canadian Police Caught Attempting To Stage Riots
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2007/240807_stage_riots.htm
Provocateurs At End The Fed Rally?
http://www.prisonplanet.com/provocateurs-at-end-the-fed-rally.html
So are the "black bloc" types really hired "agent provocateurs" brought into these events to shame real protests and draw attention away from their agenda in order to alienate the general public from their serious issues and create a rift between them and the serious protesters?
Has our Tory government, which cannot truly be said to have a mandate in any way from the Canadian people, just shucked and jived us out of a massive pile of our own money? Even other world leaders have looked on our profligate display with bemusement.
I would describe our "security" funding as an epic fail. How about you? | |
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late™
| | Joined: 2/1/2010
Msg: 2 | |
| G8 in Muskoka and G20 in Toronto
Posted: 6/27/2010 1:31:31 PM |
So are the "black bloc" types really hired "agent provocateurs" brought into these events to shame real protests and draw attention away from their agenda in order to alienate the general public from their serious issues and create a rift between them and the serious protesters?
Something they haven't even been able to keep on the down low. They've (Law Enforcement Agencies) already been busted doing this.
Has our Tory government, which cannot truly be said to have a mandate in any way from the Canadian people, just shucked and jived us out of a massive pile of our own money? Even other world leaders have looked on our profligate display with bemusement.
Little Stevie wants to be seen as wearing big boy's pant's, ...without mom and dad's permission.
Par.
That Canadians fell for the whole Reform Party bait 'n switch is ample evidence that they got what they deserved, ...oh, well, if the Cons had a majority government that is. Still batting zero there.
I would describe our "security" funding as an epic fail. How about you?
An embarrassment, I think under all his clothes, Little Stevie is still wearing that gay leather vest. A supposed "world leader" with sandbox vanity and ethos.
Some PMO flack will justify it in a few days by declaring that it worked because there were no terrorist attacks with WMDs, and the evil anarchists were turned back.
Just sayin'  | |
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| G8 in Muskoka and G20 in Toronto
Posted: 6/27/2010 1:46:27 PM | i am surprised that there is no outrage , or at least deep hatred for the govnt, for this fiscal disaster
i am outraged at the cost, seems like harper has taken let them eat cake as his personal motto
as far as the shame that i feel at the conduct of the police, i would fire each one of them for there brutality, they can not be respected after this!,
these summits are a like a terrible dream, one that will not go away
even if you believe in the new world order, did anybody notice that no one was paying any attention to harper, only to obama, he has made an evil clown out of himself
time to wake up canadians, look how easy it was to just throw away any and all of our civil rights
these people are criminals, and i hope we throw them out of parlament, and throw them out of the country while we are at it!
mow we have to start all over with our civil rights, and our human rights | |
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| G8 in Muskoka and G20 in Toronto
Posted: 6/27/2010 2:25:01 PM | Overreaching police powers...such as breaking into the wrong house in the middle of the night and cuffing the inhabitants before they realized - with all of that high priced intel - that they had the wrong house?
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2010/06/26/police-booth-raid426.html
Or homes raided but activists not served warrants?
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2010/06/26/toronto-activists-raids-g20-isu.html
"The activists allege officers dragged unclothed people from their beds, kicked people who were asleep on the floor, demanded identification and refused to show a warrant or badge, or let the people in the house call for legal advice."
It will soon be before the courts under a HRC challenge:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2010/06/26/toronto-vasey-g20-security-arrest.html
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late™
| | Joined: 2/1/2010
Msg: 5 | |
| G8 in Muskoka and G20 in Toronto
Posted: 6/27/2010 2:28:41 PM | Welcome to Neo-Con Lite.
The Canadian version of the kind of buffoonery even the paleo-cons south of the border have divorced themselves from.
I hope it doesn't take 8 years for Canadians to clue in. | |
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| G8 in Muskoka and G20 in Toronto
Posted: 6/27/2010 3:14:43 PM |
I would describe our "security" funding as an epic fail. How about you?
Seems so, that sum is outrageous, considering "protesters" got away with what they did. It's also an outrage that the RCMP would act in such a manner. What would Dudley Do-Right think ? Or Nelson Eddy ?
The first time that tear gas has EVER been used there ? Just how Canadian is that ?
Oh, that's right.....the Leafs haven't won a Stanley Cup since 1967...... 
After seeing that clip of the SQ "agent provocatuers " at Montebello in action (d'oh) nothing would surprise me. Union officials did a great job on that one. | |
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late™
| | Joined: 2/1/2010
Msg: 7 | |
| G8 in Muskoka and G20 in Toronto
Posted: 6/27/2010 3:34:49 PM | After seeing that clip of the SQ "agent provocatuers " at Montebello in action (d'oh) nothing would surprise me. Union officials did a great job on that one.
Saw that too, ...hence my remarks.
There are real concerns expressed by very informed and knowledgeable people (J. Stiglitz comes to mind) that raise serious questions as to the goings on of the G (whatever number), which is really just an exercise in keeping the failed policies of the WTO, World Bank and other affiliates in the globalism/deregulation farce, in play.
All they have to do is point at the "angry mobs" in order to define "those who disagree" as being a mindless bunch. As for the calm refutations of those like Stiglitz, who after his ideas didn't work, recanted, and was discarded for it, they will continue to paint him with the brush of "those who disagree", ...that is until the world realizes and collectively says, "Wait a second...."
I don't think that "agent provocatuers" are going to be necessary as time goes on and the whole farce is perpetuated, I think that the anger is going to escalate, become more organized, more vocal, and a lot harder to dismiss.
This bunch (GXX)are continuing to book cruises on a sinking ship, ...the refunds are going to be a bîtch. | |
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| G8 in Muskoka and G20 in Toronto
Posted: 6/27/2010 3:47:03 PM |
As one commentator to the CBC Web forums noted:
Last September, Pittsburgh hosted a G20 summit that resulted in no great breaches of public order but whose security-related costs totaled only about $12.2 million (U.S.) — less than 1.5 per cent of the projected costs of the summits in Toronto and Huntsville
Give me my tax dollars back you are wasting my money.
I'm surprised any CBC website would allow the phrase " wasting my money" to appear on their site; since CBC - - -"your Canadian (Liberal Party) Propaganda Station" -- is one of the biggest wastes of tax dollars in Canada. | |
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| G8 in Muskoka and G20 in Toronto
Posted: 6/27/2010 3:49:51 PM |
I would describe our "security" funding as an epic fail. How about you?
I'd say it was spent on the wrong things. The govt. should have announced that any violent &/or destructive protests would be considered terrorist attacks. Then spend the money on SWAT sharpshooters on the roofs.
Soon as the "black bloc" & such started breaking windows & setting fires, the SWAT sharpshooters blow them away. Problem solved. | |
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| G8 in Muskoka and G20 in Toronto
Posted: 6/27/2010 3:57:29 PM |
That Canadians fell for the whole Reform Party bait 'n switch is ample evidence that they got what they deserved,
Yeah, the Liberals are SO much better ( just ask them); they view themselves as Canada's ruling party.
oh, well, if the Cons had a majority government that is. Still batting zero there.
That issue could be dealt with if the federal government disallowed any federal party that only runs candidates in one province & not nationwide. | |
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late™
| | Joined: 2/1/2010
Msg: 11 | |
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| G8 in Muskoka and G20 in Toronto
Posted: 6/27/2010 4:13:08 PM | " I'd say it was spent on the wrong things. The govt. should have announced that any violent &/or destructive protests would be considered terrorist attacks. Then spend the money on SWAT sharpshooters on the roofs.
Soon as the "black bloc" & such started breaking windows & setting fires, the SWAT sharpshooters blow them away. Problem solved."
Nice brown shirt sentiments. The problem with those tactics occur when the agent provocateurs are initiating the riots. Do the Gestapo shoot their own? How do they recognize their agents...other than RFD chips?
The vast majority of people who showed up to represent democracy in the world were overshadowed, yet again, by plants and anarchists. To start shooting into crowds is so Kent State-ish and counterproductive to the dream of, or rather pretense of, democracy as most in the G-20 publically profess to support. The police state of the Ignited States of America has been exporting the ideals and arms of the militarized police forces. Dissent is not to be allowed near the misleadership, Misleaders are not to be bothered with such ideas, and Let them eat Cake..
The photos are exactly the same as those from Seattle, St. Paul, and many other venues where the citizens were all considered guilty till proven innocent.
http://cryptome.org/info/g8-police/g8-police.htm | |
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| G8 in Muskoka and G20 in Toronto
Posted: 6/27/2010 4:31:56 PM |
Nice brown shirt sentiments. The problem with those tactics occur when the agent provocateurs are initiating the riots. Do the Gestapo shoot their own? How do they recognize their agents...other than RFD chips?
Naw, I'd say anyone that started smashing windows & setting fires would be fair game... so if there were provocateurs doing it, they can take their chances along with the non provocateurs.
It would have been interesting to see what the response from the authorities would have been if one of those shops getting trashed by the vandals happened to be occupied by a shop owner with a properly registered firearm. The shop owner, after seeing the police car being torched, then some masked people start destroying his shop windows, could have decided his life was in danger & started shooting the nutbars as an act of self defence.
I say nutbars because what do they expect to accomplish with their actions, other than destruction? I have no problemwith people taking part inpeaceful demonstrations & protests, but as soon as you start destroying other people's property you are nothing but a criminal.
These "black bloc" people call themselves anarchists... well, the dictionary definition of anarchist is :
an·ar·chist /ˈænərkɪst/
–noun
1. a person who advocates or believes in anarchy or anarchism.
2. a person who seeks to overturn by violence all constituted forms and institutions of society and government, with no purpose of establishing any other system of order in the place of that destroyed.
3. a person who promotes disorder or excites revolt against any established rule, law, or custom
So if they are true to their claims of being anarchists, they'd have no problem with people attacking them & their property, since they "promotes disorder or excites revolt against any established rule, law, or custom". | |
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late™
| | Joined: 2/1/2010
Msg: 14 | |
| G8 in Muskoka and G20 in Toronto
Posted: 6/27/2010 4:37:08 PM | You forgot about "rational anarchy", and the anarchists aren't the only ones objecting to the well documented planet wide rape perpetrated by the World Bank, WTO, etc.
But more importantly, do hobnail boots come in a pump?  | |
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| G8 in Muskoka and G20 in Toronto
Posted: 6/27/2010 4:40:05 PM |
Yeah, **** democracy, the banks don't have enough power yet, this is a step in the right direction.
Canada isn't a democracy, with our arrangement we have a regularly elected dictator; I've voted in every election I've been eligible for, & have never been able to cast a vote for Prime Minister, merely a vote for a candidate in my riding.
AND our system allows for a scenario where the PM may not even be elected by the people, he or she could lose in their riding, but if their party has the most seats following the election then one of those elected can step down & turn their seat over to the party leader to allow them to assume the prime ministership.
If it's to be a democracy, then that shouldn't be an automatic in, if someone steps down & turns their seat over then a byelection in that riding should be held, & the party leader can try to win the byelection... who knows, if they lose again & it continues, they may lose the election through attrition 
And it'd be nice to have a "None of the Above" as a choice on the ballot, then perhaps they'd get a large voter turn out & realize that it isn't that people don't want to bother voting, the people just don't want tobother voting for any of their choices | |
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| G8 in Muskoka and G20 in Toronto
Posted: 6/27/2010 4:43:06 PM |
Nice brown shirt sentiments. The problem with those tactics
Problem? An apparently out of control mob starts destroying property & setting fire to police cars & as a result of their actions, gets shot? What problem?
... & the sharpshooters could shoot them in the kneecaps, they wouldn't kill thembut it'd make identifying them easy, unless they decide not to seek proper medical care. | |
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| G8 in Muskoka and G20 in Toronto
Posted: 6/27/2010 4:43:35 PM | an·ar·chist /ˈænərkɪst/
–noun
1. a person who advocates or believes in anarchy or anarchism.
2. a person who seeks to overturn by violence all constituted forms and institutions of society and government, with no purpose of establishing any other system of order in the place of that destroyed.
3. a person who promotes disorder or excites revolt against any established rule, law, or custom
BP, Monsanto, Union Carbide, Massey Coal, etc... These are the rulers of corporate anarchy, where rules are meant to be ignored, where lives and property matter little, where governments are meant to be owned, bought and sold to the highest bidders, with a compliant and available police force, to protect that Corporate Anarchy. These are the ultimate anarchists that so many object to. Broken windows vs. broken Gulf of Mexico, broken lives and broken life support systems. Hmmmm...which one sucks more? | |
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| G8 in Muskoka and G20 in Toronto
Posted: 6/27/2010 4:45:49 PM |
You forgot about "rational anarchy", and the anarchists aren't the only ones objecting to the well documented planet wide rape perpetrated by the World Bank, WTO, etc.
Objecting & peaceful protests are one thing, but can you explain how destroying shop windows & incinerating police vehicles will help alleviate planet wide rape perpetrated by the World Bank, WTO, etc? | |
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late™
| | Joined: 2/1/2010
Msg: 19 | |
| G8 in Muskoka and G20 in Toronto
Posted: 6/27/2010 4:49:41 PM | If it's to be a democracy...
What you seem to be confusing with modern democracy is ochlocracy.
But, the G20 represents neither, either way.
It is at the moment, an extension of an oligarchic plutocracy, nothing more nothing less.
Another word for it is fascism.
Better get a shine on those pumps, it might be mistaken for dissent.
Objecting & peaceful protests are one thing, but can you explain how destroying shop windows & incinerating police vehicles will help alleviate planet wide rape perpetrated by the World Bank, WTO, etc?
It's a convenient means for now, of deflecting focus from the rational dissent based on reality.
See: agent provocateur | |
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| G8 in Muskoka and G20 in Toronto
Posted: 6/27/2010 5:32:26 PM |
Broken windows vs. broken Gulf of Mexico, broken lives and broken life support systems. Hmmmm...which one sucks more?
And again, I'll ask : how is breaking those windows & torching those police cars going to help alleviate/combat any of those problems?
Hmmm, there's a huge oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, it's a terrible ecological catastrophe thanks to BP... what to do, what to do....
I KNOW!
( smashes a few shop windows in Toronto, & torches a police car....)
OK, did that fix the problem in the Gulf of Mexico? Nope, dang...
Nuts, I better break some more stuff.... | |
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| G8 in Muskoka and G20 in Toronto
Posted: 6/27/2010 5:36:57 PM |
Objecting & peaceful protests are one thing, but can you explain how destroying shop windows & incinerating police vehicles will help alleviate planet wide rape perpetrated by the World Bank, WTO, etc?
It's a convenient means for now, of deflecting focus from the rational dissent based on reality.
Hmmm I see....
Let's show how upset we are with all that $$$$ being spent on security for the G8/G20 by going on a rampage & creating the need for all that security.
And why didn't those involved in the G8/G20 just video conference this from their offices, & eliminate the security problem from the start?
I guess ( if they'd done that ) they wouldn't be able to jet around the world for their photo ops & get in some fine dining with someone else footing the bill. | |
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| G8 in Muskoka and G20 in Toronto
Posted: 6/27/2010 5:57:20 PM | a few hundred peaceful protesters where at the corner of an itersection, the police, or thugs cornered them and arrested everybody, even a reporter
is it not interesting that while the anarchists where torching police cars and damaging privat and public property, not one cop was around to stop them, i find it curious , the city had thousands of cops .... and they just happened not to notice
they where government plants, to justify the billion dollars they threw away
prime minister harper, made a fool out of himself at the summit, no one was even slightly interested in his proposals, the summit ended with nothing being done or agreed on
waist my money a hole,see if you get the vote the next time around | |
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late™
| | Joined: 2/1/2010
Msg: 23 | |
| G8 in Muskoka and G20 in Toronto
Posted: 6/27/2010 6:01:52 PM | Nuts, I better break some more stuff....
No, just the habit of being an apologist for globalism, that couldn't hurt.
Hmmm I see....
Let's show how upset we are with all that $$$$ being spent on security for the G8/G20 by going on a rampage & creating the need for all that security.
No, you don't see, in fact, you missed the point completely.
And why didn't those involved in the G8/G20 just video conference this from their offices, & eliminate the security problem from the start?
Ha ha... why are they even chasing failure to begin with!?!?!
I guess ( if they'd done that ) they wouldn't be able to jet around the world for their photo ops & get in some fine dining with someone else footing the bill.
It's the "footing the bill" in the big picture that has some very upset.
A billion dollars is just a drop in the bucket. | |
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| G8 in Muskoka and G20 in Toronto
Posted: 6/27/2010 7:12:11 PM |
It's the "footing the bill" in the big picture that has some very upset.
A billion dollars is just a drop in the bucket.
I agree that the G8/G20 meetings are a waste of time & money, especially in these days of web conferences etc.
But the trashing of shop windows & torching police cars to show your opposition to these meetings is pointless destruction. | |
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late™
| | Joined: 2/1/2010
Msg: 25 | |
| G8 in Muskoka and G20 in Toronto
Posted: 6/27/2010 7:42:31 PM |
I agree that the G8/G20 meetings are a waste of time & money, especially in these days of web conferences etc.
Still missing the reason for legitimate anger here, ...and it ain't security costs and per diems.
http://www.gregpalast.com/sell-the-lexus-burn-the-olive-treernglobalization-and-its-discontents/ | |
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