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| | GETTING OUT OF DODGEPage 1 of 2 (1, 2) | I've been thinking (with increasing frequency over the past few years) of possible ways to leave the city and go live in the country, somewhere where the weather is not too harsh, and maybe there is water nearby.
In my foggy vision, I see some type of remote setting, not too close to a town, like a hobby farm or a few acres with a farmhouse in it, a modest place that can provide the basics for self sustainability, on which I can improve on. I'm aware that there is not such a thing as total self sustainability, since you always need money to pay taxes and stuff you don't produce - like gas or supplies, but you can always (or hopefully) make some money by selling some produce or providing some services over the internet.
I am not and have never been a farmer, although I'm a good gardener and I have stayed in farms that belonged to members of my family for short periods of time, so I know what's involved in it. Besides, I don't think there is anything that can't be learned.
The problem is I wouldn't really want to go it alone, and I don't think there will ever be any takers. Let alone that if I ever talked about that to a man, they would think that I'm fit to be tied and hung upside-down to get some circulation in the right parts... I am capable and resourceful - kind of jack of all trades, but being alone forever sucks.
So anyway, my question is:
Have any of you ever considered such a move, have any of you done it, and if you did, what were the hurdles you have to overcome? Did you need an abundant supply of money for starters, of were you able to start small?
Is it totally off the wall for middle age people to venture that way, or is it doable?
Your input and experience will be greatly appreciated.
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Posted: 8/1/2010 12:57:47 PM |
Have any of you ever considered such a move,
All the time!
have any of you done it, and if you did, what were the hurdles you have to overcome?
Money and a willing partner.
Did you need an abundant supply of money for starters,
In the locales I would choose....the amount of money to obtain the land needed is substantial.
of were you able to start small?
Depends on location.....some places land is about $300/acre....no water though, or grass...or animals....
Is it totally off the wall for middle age people to venture that way, or is it doable?
Not way off. In fact I recently read an article showing a rising trend in this. People burnt out on city life, taking their retirement nest eggs and moving to the countryside for hobby farms. Real estate value (in the US) held steady (maybe slight increase) for rural properties while city property plummeted. The article I saw cited less stress and healthier/happier lifestyles for the rat-race-rejectors. With the increasing demand in 'organic' food, hobby farms are becoming much more profitable, especially as people learn more about what is going on with the commercial farming industry. There are plenty of people near where I live that make a living growing flowers, herbs, organic vegetables, farm fresh eggs, etc. and selling once a week at a farmer's market. | |
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Posted: 8/1/2010 2:00:21 PM | There are ample opportunities to try the lifestyle on for size. I know a number of kids your age who have downshifted to the slow lane with ease. If doing it on your own there are usually affecionados of the lifestyle to be found at the local farmers markets which are also a great source of community and amazing amounts of combined knowledge.
I've done the organic farming route off and on for years. It's an ongoing education project. I downshifted and went off grid 7 years ago a few years after leaving the big farm with the ex. The acreage and the house were less than $60,000, with a fair bit of sweat equity. There are still deals around. There are also internships at permaculture farms where for a small fee, you get food and lodging, and learn along the way.
Look into sites like this..
http://www.ic.org/ | |
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Posted: 8/1/2010 8:28:32 PM | MrFication:
Have any of you ever considered such a move, All the time!
Thanks, I feel less weird!
earthpuppy
Thanks for the encouragement, puppy. I have done some search and I'm getting somewhat familiar with what's out there. There is a lot to know, and a lot of pitfalls.
I know about the IC movement, and the magazine is a good info resource, but I really I don't want to be in an organized community/co-op, or member of a Eco / Green Fellowship of any sorts. The int'l communities are shaping up into growing corporations with vision- mission statements, memberships , conferences, marketing, party lines and rules and all the crappola I have a mind to get away from...
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| GETTING OUT OF DODGE
Posted: 8/2/2010 3:43:41 AM | Understood about the IC drawbacks. I mentioned the IC and internship options as a means to try things on for size and help solidify what you really want. I served on the BOD of a permaculture 501 c3 teaching homestead. They have a number of interns pass through each year, living and learning, and usually going on to their own homesteads, armed with considerably more knowledge.
On this piece of land that friends and I bought, we divided it into 20 acre parcels, wrote up covenants to winnow out the noisy, obnoxious, forest destroying, idiot crowd and got to pick our neighbors. It's intentionally quiet and peaceful without a lot of rules. | |
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Posted: 8/2/2010 4:42:54 AM | i've done it.... or i'm trying to do it, depending on your perspective!
i'm doing it alone too. and yes it sucks... sometimes, but oh well!
a girl's gotta do what a girl's gotta do.
here's the biggest challenge as i see it: TIME.
i have a hobby farm on about 4 acres. thankfully, i also have a job... which more or less keeps me from spending my bucolic days dressed in a blue frock and a straw hat, planting tomatoes and picking up fresh chicken eggs out of nests.
it is usually challenge enough for me for me just to keep the grass cut and the dog hair off the carpets. when i start adding stuff on... like upgrading the barn or maintaining the pool or removing dead trees or cleaning out the pond or doing all the landscaping by myself... it becomes a lil' overwhelming.
that being said... yes i think it's doable and yes you can start small, and no it doesn't necessarily take a lot of money. plus you will learn six new uses for a chainsaw, ten ways to kill raccoons, and how to repair a sump pum with a paper clip. time management and incremental progress will be your new BFF.
so if you are going to take this plunge, buy a fairly small place in good repair... something that does not require major surgery... (my house needed a new roof *immediately*; oops there goes another $8k)... be willing to get familiar with power tools (and hand tools) if you aren't already... be extra nice to the folks at Lowe's... get comfortable being dirty and reeking of bug repellant... and get rid of any silly fantasies about having pretty fingernails while you make a nice home made peach salsa under soft lighting cuz it ain't nothin' like the freakin martha stewart show.
i hate that b*tch.
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Posted: 8/2/2010 8:31:41 AM | Thanks motown cowgirl,
I'm familiar with power tools (aren't they a girl's best friends?) I lived on a boat for two and a half years once and I know the art of improvisation with paperclips and duct tape. Pretty fingernails was never my strong suit anyway, and there's something to be said about the smell of diesel... Mmmmm... diesel!
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az109
| | Joined: 7/3/2010
Msg: 8 | |
| GETTING OUT OF DODGE
Posted: 8/2/2010 8:42:53 AM | Rent a place for a few months before you just go buy something. See if you like it for real. The escapist fantasy may differ from the reality in ways you couldn't know before spending time "out there". Some of what inspires your dream to get out of Dodge may be coming with you to Dodge. No matter where you go, there you are.
I have been keeping my eye out for a nice spot to erect a hovel of my own, in my travels. All destinations beyond Dodge are not created equal, that's for sure. The easy ones matching the fantasies are high end because of demand. It depends on your personal version of paradise, which if mainstream will be prohibitively expensive, yet if more modest and flexible can be had fairly easily. Two locations can seem the same at first glance but then once you get to know the locals, their beliefs, and about any ongoing feuds in the area one place still looks good and the other turns out to be the fire for the frying pan.
You have researched it casually enough to know of people who do this kind of replanting themselves enthusiastically and successfully, so I don't exactly get the question about if any men would be interested. Maybe you meant, on here, not in general, in a roundabout way. It may remain a mystery if you prefer. You are not under arrest.
I'd like to find a mate who wants to build a place together from scratch. I assume the lot will have some poison ivy or at least insects to be bitten by, causing some minor yet annoying itching. As we build and scratch we would forge the working partnership to come, so by the time the place was ready to move in we would have learned each other well enough to live there in it, if we both weren't dead by then over clashing over flashing.
I don't go in for that stuff where the man does everything for the woman and she just comes along and plops herself down in a feathered nest, then squawks at him to keep things going. I like being with someone with whom I can work side by side joyfully, for to me there is much in life yet to be done and a mate should be my partner not just some woman who puts out when she gets new furniture, and worse, inflatable chairs don't even count. I wished I had known that before sinking the $5.99 plus tax into the damn thing. Lessons learned...
Dreams of new nests are commonly for expressing desires and escaping chronic or abiding dissatisfaction. But sometimes people really do mean to actually go out in search of new digs, not to just get out of Dodge but to get into wherever else it may be. In search of Utopia, The Cottage with the White Picket Fence, and other Utopian destinations goes lurching from escapism to idealism; same difference. I think you know when you are ready to move someplace new only when you are there at that new someplace and feeling like it's starting to be your home. You look around and like it and want to stay. That's also a good metaphor for finding a mate, when you know from being together you like it better than not. Dreams inspire and then there is sometimes right there in Dodge, perhaps in your own backyard, a bluebird of happiness you overlooked before, but that would still be more at home in a different backyard someplace other than Dodge. | |
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Posted: 8/2/2010 5:19:01 PM | I've been looking for a spot that feels like home in my travels too, I haven't found it yet, but I know is somewhere (along with the mister) I have thought about building from scratch too, but I think finding a lot with a hut, would eliminate the cost of renting while you build.
My utopia has more good mud than white picket fences and no plopping in a feather nest, and my desire to move out there is not escapism chronic or acute. I consider wanting a different and simpler life an improvement and a challenge. I am not tied down to where I live by family or tradition or anything worth being tied down for. I live here, because I work here, to have money to pay my mortgage here, and to buy gas and food, so I can go to work here, to pay etc., you get my drift... I've done this for years on end, but I know there's got to be something more in life. There is of course the possibility that the project will fail, but that's a chance I take. I count that it will not.
I'm still a year or two away of getting the utopia materialized, and the bluebird of happiness may or may not appear, and if it appears may not be the kind that wants to work side by side for a common dream. (How likely is THAT!) Either way, my next trip is coming up, and I'll keep my eyes open. Maybe this time I'll find myself there! 
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Posted: 8/3/2010 8:05:39 PM | | Well, you've gotten some good advice here, and I think many people are like you in wanting to find their own ShagriLa. It's certainly not out of the question that you could do this, and do it on your own, the key is to be well prepared. Physically, and mentally. I grew up on a farm in a remote area, and I have no dreams of ever doing that again! It's a 7 day a week, 24 hour a day operation. That's the first thing you have to realize. If you are going to grow things, or keep animals, you can't just wander off on a two week European vacation whenever you feel like it. You have to have someone reliable you can leave in charge of the place if you have to go away for any amount of time. I think the biggest mistake that some people make is in taking on too much right at the start. They run out and get several cows, chickens, a horse or two, etc. Then realize these critters all have to be fed, watered, have their own shelter etc. Heaven forbid one gets sick and you have to call a vet! I think your biggest stumbling block will be finding the right property. One that is big enough without being too big, but is able to sustain what you want to do. It will need a good supply of good water, and have good soil (not too dry, or swampy) etc. Research will be your best tool. Talk to everyone you can, and there are ample books to help you (the title Foxfire comes to mind). I think the first thing you should do is make a list of what you want to have in the way of animals and crops (gardens), and then figure out from there what you need in the way of land etc. Good luck! | |
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Posted: 8/3/2010 8:44:29 PM | date
.....and
..........marry
................a farmer.
Should be easy to do.
Not many wimin in the sticks.
:-p | |
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Posted: 8/3/2010 9:47:00 PM | Stray cat,
Farmers won't even look my way... They think I'm a city slicker, out to get their farm!.
Thank you MissMarpole I appreciate your advice.
I don't know enough about animals and I will not attempt to raise cattle in my old age. Gardening is what I have in mind, and making pottery to supplement my income if I need to.
I'm good with my hands, and I know a trade or two that can be useful in the long run.
I do plan to start small, as I don't want to be over my head from one day to the next.
I can live with less just fine, if I can finally do what I enjoy.
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Posted: 8/3/2010 11:03:08 PM |
Have any of you ever considered such a move, have any of you done it, and if you did, what were the hurdles you have to overcome?
I have thought about something like it. Living off a boat and the sea in the south pacific more so than farming though.
A sibling tried farming, hobby farm, organic farming, self sustenance. Bought a 20 acre hobby or half assed farm, kept bees, chickens, had a cow, goat, lots of cats, dogs, raised organic vegetables, drank raw milk. Tried to start a co-op, for trade and selling honey, eggs, milk, vegetables, firewood.
Lasted about 5 years until all the money they accumulated (including 401k) over 15 years of 9-5 (+) ran out.
The hurdles they had to overcome were they did not practice any of the religions of the community they moved to. They were strangers to the community they moved to and treated as such. They were too used to the immediate gratification, vacations, disposable income, tech toys, city culture.
Being unable to fully integrate into the community of lifelong farmers, quakers, dunkers, baptists, etc., they were not really able to form a sustainable co-op. The market was already saturated and they didn't work to fill niches not filled by their local competition, simply what they had dreamed of doing.
Plus there were a bunch of kids to feed, homeschool, put in school when homeschooling groups weren't all that receptive to newcomers, etc.
So basically the hurdles were community integration and support, the learning curve, unrealistic expectations, and attempting to eradicate old lifestyle, while replacing it with something completely new, different, with far fewer luxuries.
Did you need an abundant supply of money for starters, of were you able to start small?
The people I know that did it went through about a million dollars in 5 years (including 120 year old farm house and land) and failed miserably. 5 year plan got scrapped and rewritten after 3 months.
Although I believe success depends more on your drive and willingness to accept hardship.
It would also help (IMO) if you didn't have any kids when you first start.
Nothing as stressful as completely changing your life while trying to take care of a bunch of kids, not having any security in knowledge of tomorrow.
Taking care of kids under strain of completely new life =emotional stress.
Farming and having little experience at it = physical stress.
All of which means = constant fatigue and worry until your paradigm changes, which it may never do.
Is it totally off the wall for middle age people to venture that way, or is it doable?
It's not off the wall. I remember reading a ton of silicon valley millionaires, and californians housing windfall people were moving to places in the midwest where land was really cheap trying to do exactly what you are talking about. Sell a house in california for 1.5 million, buy a house with under 50 acres in ohio, oklahome, nebraska, etc. for 200k, try to be a gentleman (or woman) farmer.
Lot's of farmers are also trying to get rid of their "crap area I can't really grow wal-mart crops on" land.
I think it's doable if you have absolutely no way to get out of it once you've committed.
I just think it ideally takes a lot of planning for the worst, foresight, realistic expectations, and spending enough time getting to know how to fit into (or if you can) the culture you are going to become a part of, rather than dreaming of how you want things to go and expecting them to.
Unless you are planning to be completely cut off from any community like a Wyoming or Montana 1000 acre cattle ranch where you drive into town once a month for some liquor and beans. Then it's just a question of money and perseverance.
Of course there is always living in a city, buying really old property where the developers didn't stick as many homes on an 1/8 acre parcel of land as it could so you have a few acres, yet still have access to your job, and then use your disposable income to slowly turn your home into a permaculture haven or off the grid home. | |
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Posted: 8/4/2010 2:57:29 AM | I consider wanting a different and simpler life an improvement and a challenge
some irony in that statement, huh. simpler life.... challenge... lol. kinda made me think of all the city slickers like me who wanted to move out to the country for this so-called simpler life. meanwhile, the reason why supermarkets and big cities were invented in the first place was so that we could just walk to the damn store and pick up our meat & veggies & eggs all clean and wrapped neatly in plastic. and a caramel fukking frappuccino. look, it's right there next to the norah jones CDs. omg! eggs come out of a chicken's ass along with everything else up in there, there's spiders nesting in the mud room, and who wants to dig in the dirt for a couple of potatoes? lol. damn i think i just talked myself into moving back to DC. okay, who wants to buy a tractor?!?
a "simpler life" is open to lots of interpretation. ;)
of course, where i live now, we have amish people plowing the fields with draft horses while they're talking on their cell phones. hee hee.
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Posted: 8/4/2010 5:05:55 PM | | for me getting out of dodge requires a passport, and a 13 hour flight. | |
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Posted: 8/7/2010 4:07:43 PM | | Google abandoned farmhouses, prehaps you could find a cheap fixer upper. I love checking out abandoned building sites on the internet. Living in Santa Barbara a vacation town I haven't been anywhere in many years, nor have I been successful enough to go anywhere. I'm in vacation hell. There's a site OABINNY, Old abandoned buildings in Northern New York. Many of them are beautiful old farms. Check it out. This could be an answer for some who have lost their homes, good luck. | |
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Posted: 8/8/2010 1:24:53 AM | I'm considering such a move (without moving)...but very low key...on the 3/4 acre I live on in the middle of town. I have a garden (20X40) that is more than sustainable...for now I give away the extras.
I live in a 700 sq. ft. house. Thinking of building a new one, enlarge the garden, build a greenhouse, hire a few wwoofers as the need arises, and sell the products in organized farmer markets. I live near (120 km) a popular tourist destination which has a very successful garden market. There are also several other markets that are less than 120 km's away.
My present home would be living quarters for the wwoofers.
I would continue my (more than) full time job (200+ hrs/mth in summer...less in winter)
It's a lot to take on, but with the right partner, it may be doable.
I realize that my (so far ad hoc) plan is not completely self sustainable, but it may be a start...
WWOOFERS....here's a link if you haven't heard of them...
http://www.wwoof.org/ | |
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Posted: 8/8/2010 6:50:24 AM |
The problem is I wouldn't really want to go it alone, and I don't think there will ever be any takers. Let alone that if I ever talked about that to a man, they would think that I'm fit to be tied and hung upside-down to get some circulation in the right parts... I am capable and resourceful - kind of jack of all trades, but being alone forever sucks.
I think there definitely could be a few takers. Over the past few years I've come across the occasional profile from men who had similar visions for what they'd like to be up to when their kids finish university and move out. Why not add something to your profile on this? | |
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Posted: 8/8/2010 8:06:36 PM | In my opinion you'd be crazy to abandon your present life to start a hobby farm. You stated that you have family with farms... if they are near enough, see if they will rent you an acre or two to create a semblence of what your hobby farm might entail on a small scale. After working daylight to dusk for a season planting, weeding, fertilizing and picking, if the weather smiled on you and the insects left you alone, there may be a crop that will almost pay the bills for the seed, fertilizer and labor if you are naturally gifted in retailing your product in a timely manner.
Your family would hopefully help you out with a bit of tractor work so you won't need to buy an outrageously expensive tractor just for those couple of acres. The same goes for maybe borrowing a planter and weed cultivator... they're not as expensive as a tractor but a couple acres will not amoratize their cost even if bought used. You will find that the bigger you grow, the easier it is to justify the input costs, but then labor becomes a problem if you get so big that one person can no longer handle it.
But your hope of avoiding beauracracy is dependent on many state regulations. Here in California we have ample paperwork for OSHA, EPA, the local watershed, pesticide permits, self-imposed grower regulations to protect the fruit and vegetable market from contaminated produce, local dust ordinances, and probably more that I'm forgetting about and will be reminded about by a letter in the mail by the appropriate agency. I would hope that California is the most regulated state when it comes to farming because I really don't see how it could get any worse.
The best way to start would be to just tear out the yard and plant the garden in the city so that it is more easily marketed and you can continue your paying job to finance the hobby. | |
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Posted: 8/10/2010 10:09:25 AM | I'm working on my little utopia right now -- have been since 1996 when I bought land with a 100 year old house on it. As an academic, you have quite a bit of time, like summers, spring break, winter break, etc., when you can get off the fast lane for a while and do what you have to do.
It has not been easy -- "What are you going to do during the Break?" After a while, everyone knew what I was going to do. Essentially, very few vacations, getting down and dirty, feeling so tired sometimes that even taking a shower seems like a challenge. The house has been, more or less, restored, land vacated of dry trees, a semblance of "liveability" is now present -- but sometimes, seeing what more has to be done, is a bit overwhelming.
There is still a bit of land that is affordable in the Hill Country in TX, though it is fast disappearing. The best deals are "legacy" buys, where one purchases a bit of land, or a house, from "friends of friends" or "friends of relatives," etc. You'll be surprised at the number of people who want their piece of land to be respected, and its history protected, and "they ain't about to sell it to a city slicker who'll turn it into a development so more of them city slickers can come in." That goes against the whole grain of "country living."
Romance? Your question is a good one. I've spent close to 3 months here this time around, about ready to head back to my job next week. It's a melancholy feeling. Romance and keeping up a few sustainable acres CAN be done, but it's a challenge, if you're SEEKING a relationship at the same time that you're hard at work on your property. I've seen a pretty woman at church, and she seems mighty interested, but you always have this nagging thought in the back of your mind, "How can I spare some time to 'spark' her?" Heck, half the time, I'm not quite sure where my "going out" shoes are, and getting ready to "go out" seems like SUCH a drag.
Throw into the equation critters, especially dogs, who consider you part of the pack, and so, soon as you start heading for the truck, or SUV, they're the first ones to jump in. You get to the point where you start taking that for granted, and feel like a heel, when you tell them they can't go --- look in the back view mirror and see them just sitting there, asking "Huh?" And they DESERVE their outings too -- a piece of land without a dog -- well, ain't no ADT or other alarm system set-up for acres of land, ya see, not without a bunch of money -- and the dogs can do a lot more than serve as a security system. Trained the right way, they can herd, help you watch for snakes and other critters, and they are great companions, whether you have a human partner or not. Last night, my shepherd was barking through the nite, starting at 1:30 a.m. through about 3:20 or so-- indicating anything from a snake to a racoon to an actual human prowler -- had to go out there 3 times-- keep the shotgun handy by the front door, shoes that you can put on in a few seconds, and sleeping clothes that you wouldn't mind others seeing you in, if the occasion rises that it might be a human out there. Eight hours of continuous sleep? That's nice when it happens. But it sure does a soul good when, after investigating whatever incident, you can look up at the skies, look around and see "your trees;" "your property, your barn, your house, your domain ..... it's all good.
My plan is to get on with it, work for the years that I have left, perhaps even retire early, so that I can come back here -- in other words, I LOVE being here. Who knows, after I can work on this place continuously for a while, why, there might be time to balance work and play, even romance, a little better.
Good luck on your quest -- it's a good one. Mmmm Hmmm | |
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Posted: 8/10/2010 5:39:18 PM | OP,
You also don't really need a 'house' for this kind of venture. Some of the organic farms I've seen have yurts(sp?), which the only thing they built was an elevated floor. The rest is a big roomy tent. They have running water and electricity. Since the 'tent' can be taken down and the floor moved around the property, it isn't considered a 'permanent fixture'. So when tax appraisal time comes around, only the land get taxed....not a home too. | |
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Posted: 8/10/2010 5:51:19 PM | | ^^^^ Just curious as to how the sewer system works on that yurt? E coli is a major concern in organic produce. | |
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Posted: 8/10/2010 7:24:36 PM | raraavis41,
I did not look around at them long enough or ask those questions. There were some hippie-girls that have an organic berry and flower farm and I only briefly looked at it. I know it had wooden floors and they said it had power and running water. Another option is a RV that can be moved and taken to a dumpsite. | |
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Posted: 8/11/2010 9:53:29 PM | Well unfortunately, I kill plants no matter what I try so a farm would be out for me, but my parents grewup on farms and live in the country now with a few acres, you don't need much land aslong as the soil is good and you have a decent source of water. I think it's great that you are trying this, whenever I go home it always amazes me how relaxed I become, clean air, birds singing in the mornings, a goodnight sleep and food straight from the garden.
Farming can be a hard life thou, you have to make sure you have a marketable niche if you are going to sell food, I would look for areas with farmers markets that have individual stalls, we buy fresh corn out the back of pickup trucks picked fresh that day, they make pretty good money.
Do alot of research on the area you choose to live in, look for land deal opportunities and talk to the locals they can be a wealth of information, I would also be careful not to buy too big of a place that would be too much for you too takecare of and maintain.
As for finding someone, look for men with similar views and you are never too old to follow your dreams and try something new. Good luck | |
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Posted: 8/14/2010 12:22:43 AM | | no way, I'm a city girl, I want to be able to walk to the grocery store, not grow my own food. Just me. Plus all the driving you'd have to do - wouldn't that kind of negate the environmental benefits? Unless, perhaps you've got a horse & carriage? But I wish you luck. I do need to have a place like you describe - to visit And I do need the partner and the money! | |
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