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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > another workplace mass murder - mental health checkups needed      Home login  
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 justbunky
Joined: 4/3/2009
Msg: 1
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another workplace mass murder - mental health checkups neededPage 1 of 2    (1, 2)
Yet another mass shooting - 9 dead in CT. Unbelievable. How can our systems fail people so badly that they crumble into mental illness so severe that killing seems the best (or only) solution to their problems? Why doesn't the health care system offer mental health checkups, the same way it does physicals? I'm just sitting here shaking my head...the worst part is that we're becoming numb to mass shootings, in schools, at work, and in the streets.

PLEASE, this is NOT a thread about gun control, although obviously that's part of the problem.

What do you think?
 Brandie60
Joined: 12/27/2008
Msg: 2
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another workplace mass murder - mental health checkups needed
Posted: 8/4/2010 3:10:23 PM
I don't know if the healthcare system failed this man or not. I've not seen any reports as yet about whether or not he was diagnosed with any mental issues or sought treatment for any.

In this case he was the only black employee of the company and had told his family and girlfriend that he was being racially harassed. He obviously was not coping very well with this situation. To add fuel to the fire, he was allegedly caught on video tape stealing beer from his employer and called in to a meeting where he knew he would be fired. I think that situation would be enough to make the average person 'crack'. Very sad for all the families involved.

Brandie60
 Lint Spotter
Joined: 8/27/2009
Msg: 3
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another workplace mass murder - mental health checkups needed
Posted: 8/4/2010 3:25:37 PM
He was fired for stealing from his place of work. This just goes to show that workplace theft should be dealt with by the police and he should have been charged with theft as well.


PLEASE, this is NOT a thread about gun control, although obviously that's part of the problem.
Bait and trap comment... you suggest what the thread is not about and then you make an absolute statement.
 sarniafairyboy
Joined: 6/19/2010
Msg: 4
another workplace mass murder - mental health checkups needed
Posted: 8/4/2010 3:27:53 PM
^^


I don't know if the healthcare system failed this man or not. I've not seen any reports as yet about whether or not he was diagnosed with any mental issues or sought treatment for any.

In this case he was the only black employee of the company and had told his family and girlfriend that he was being racially harassed. He obviously was not coping very well with this situation. To add fuel to the fire, he was allegedly caught on video tape stealing beer from his employer and called in to a meeting where he knew he would be fired.

I think that situation would be enough to make the average person 'crack'.

Very sad for all the families involved.


oh, please... I mean, PUH - leeeze.

the situation might make the 'average person' "crack" in the sense of being sad, crying a bit, maybe wanting to get drunk to forget it all for a few hours, or days.

it would NOT make the 'average person' take a gun, or guns, and shoot & kill NINE people!

that is a sad 'excuse. he obviously had serious problems, mental health issues, whatever.

thousands, or maybe hundreds of thousands of people are fired/laid off in the USA every year. very FEW of them react by getting a gun & killing a bunch of people.
 21stcenturymind
Joined: 7/12/2010
Msg: 5
another workplace mass murder - mental health checkups needed
Posted: 8/4/2010 3:36:19 PM
Physicals deal with diagnostic tests and numbers. Mental health screenings can not give conclusive data. You can't go and hook up a machine to a person's head and have it say "insane" or "sane" because no such thing exists...unless you watch some bizarre science fiction.

As for the condition that caused the shooter to take lives, just remember that everyone has a breaking point. Some are just weaker than others.
 Lint Spotter
Joined: 8/27/2009
Msg: 6
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another workplace mass murder - mental health checkups needed
Posted: 8/4/2010 3:40:40 PM

As for the condition that caused the shooter to take lives, just remember that everyone has a breaking point. Some are just weaker than others.
I think we can all agree that stealing from your employer and getting fired for it should not be considered within the realm of reasonable breaking point for any human being.

Seriously, I could understand someone cracking and going postal after years of oppression and suppressed agression, but this is beyond comprehension.
 21stcenturymind
Joined: 7/12/2010
Msg: 7
another workplace mass murder - mental health checkups needed
Posted: 8/4/2010 3:46:55 PM
How do we know that the shooter did steal from the employer? If you got blamed and fired for theft from your employer but did not ever do it, wouldn't that at minimum make you angry?

As for things beyond comprehension, there has been no such thing since August of 1945.
 sarniafairyboy
Joined: 6/19/2010
Msg: 8
another workplace mass murder - mental health checkups needed
Posted: 8/4/2010 3:51:22 PM
^^


How do we know that the shooter did steal from the employer? If you got blamed and fired for theft from your employer but did not ever do it, wouldn't that at minimum make you angry?

As for things beyond comprehension, there has been no such thing since August of 1945.


it would NO T"make" me get a gun and kill nine people..

most of those people probably had NOTHING to do with him being fired anyway, were poor slob employees like himself..?

and no, mental health is not an 'exact science' but most often there will be tell -tale signs of coming trouble.

most people are not completely 'normal' , sociable, fun & friendly then all of a sudden, go postal with an AK-47 one day & kill a bunch of people

I'll bet there were lots of previous disciplinary problems with this guy before but they were 'afraid' to fire him, maybe because they knew his anger/temper, or afraid of a discrimination/civil rights suit
 motown cowgirl
Joined: 6/30/2010
Msg: 9
another workplace mass murder - mental health checkups needed
Posted: 8/4/2010 3:52:13 PM
well thanks for not making this about gun control while claiming at the same time that it's an "obvious" part of the problem. is that your approach to tacit agreement through stealth that that i should give up my rights because some people are mental? but if mr. loser's employers were armed, this probably would not have happened. or at least the # of innocent dead would have been mitigated. just think, even one less innocent dead would have been worth the price, knowing that the perpetrator could have been stopped in his tracks with the persuasive power of a 45. an armed society is a polite society, and people like mr. loser are predators who make it their mission to go after the weakest, most vulnerable, or most unsuspecting people they can find. i'll never forget the day some disgruntled s.o.b. deliberately drove his car thru a schoolyard in dc and killed several small children and wounded a bunch more, just because somebody pissed in his corn flakes. interestingly enough, nobody started demanding immediately that people give up their cars, pay higher registration fees, drive more slowly, or ban cars within 1/4 mile of a school zone. so your "obvious" is an affront to logic and reason, not to mention the second amendment and the bill of rights.

i will leave the prozac nation arguments to somebody else. but as i dare say the government is full of more insidious, mealy mouthed, double-talking, self-serving, corrupt, incompetent headcases than all other sectors of american society combined, i would like to know who is qualified to mandate the mental health checkups that you seem to be demanding. hillary clinton?
 21stcenturymind
Joined: 7/12/2010
Msg: 10
another workplace mass murder - mental health checkups needed
Posted: 8/4/2010 4:02:36 PM
You have a point of the fear of a discrimination or civil rights suit. But if it like you are guessing that they were afraid to fire him, then why did they fire him? People don't do things that they fear.

All people have different reactions to a situation. Almost everyone out there would not mow down people with a gun but there are those out there who would and there is nothing that can be done until it is too late. This is not the movie Minority Report where cops can just arrest people because they have a feeling that the person will commit a crime.

Oh, and supposedly this is a race related shooting. Many, many murders have been committed over the years due to this.
 theforumfiend
Joined: 10/21/2007
Msg: 11
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another workplace mass murder - mental health checkups needed
Posted: 8/4/2010 4:42:35 PM

As for the condition that caused the shooter to take lives, just remember that everyone has a breaking point. Some are just weaker than others.


A lot of people work at jobs we hate and have to put up with a lot of abuse just to have an income. If workplace violence were just a matter of stress there'd be a lot more killing. This was a sick young man. If you want to play the blame game his family and friends are even more responsible than the medical profession for not picking up on the warning signs and making him get help. They are the ones that knew him.

Blame is just blame.


PLEASE, this is NOT a thread about gun control, although obviously that's part of the problem.

What do you think?


I know you didn't mean for that last sentence to be with your pretense that this is not about gun control, but the set up is too good to pass up. If you didn't want to bring gun control into this thread you shouldn't have thrown your opinion in there.
 sarniafairyboy
Joined: 6/19/2010
Msg: 12
another workplace mass murder - mental health checkups needed
Posted: 8/4/2010 4:47:57 PM

You have a point of the fear of a discrimination or civil rights suit. But if it like you are guessing that they were afraid to fire him, then why did they fire him? People don't do things that they fear.

All people have different reactions to a situation. Almost everyone out there would not mow down people with a gun but there are those out there who would and there is nothing that can be done until it is too late. This is not the movie Minority Report where cops can just arrest people because they have a feeling that the person will commit a crime.

Oh, and supposedly this is a race related shooting. Many, many murders have been committed over the years due to this.


as for why they finally fired him, maybe they were 'afraid' of a civil rights suit for along time but he kept on doing crap and finally pushed them over the edge to where they took action, hard to tell without more facts.


there' no evidence on the record in his workplace records. did he ever file a complaint with EEOC? I think not, in this case.?

they probably don't want to acknowledge that he was just CRAZY, wacko, cuckoo, and they want to avoid any responsibility because THEY never picked up on that, or warned anyone.

not sure what you were trying to say? you think this shooting was somehow 'justified'? it was "OK" for him to do it because he was 'pushed' into it? or?

relates to the next post:



As for the condition that caused the shooter to take lives, just remember that everyone has a breaking point. Some are just weaker than others.


A lot of people work at jobs we hate and have to put up with a lot of abuse just to have an income. If workplace violence were just a matter of stress there'd be a lot more killing. This was a sick young man. If you want to play the blame game his family and friends are even more responsible than the medical profession for not picking up on the warning signs and making him get help. They are the ones that knew him.

Blame is just blame.


yeah I think his FAMILY & FRIENDS cooked up the 'racial' thing as cover. better than admitting their family member was just WACKED for years & no-one took any action about it?

not everything is 'race-related'.
 valenciacityx
Joined: 3/10/2009
Msg: 13
another workplace mass murder - mental health checkups needed
Posted: 8/4/2010 4:57:58 PM
a true sociopath will ace any personality test you want to give him.
or go 'crazy' the day before his test so that he can opt out.
 sarniafairyboy
Joined: 6/19/2010
Msg: 14
another workplace mass murder - mental health checkups needed
Posted: 8/4/2010 5:02:21 PM
^


a true sociopath will ace any personality test you want to give him.
or go 'crazy' the day before his test so that he can opt out.


yeah but I thought that a 'true sociopath' will also hurt or kill others while saving himself.

not sure this guy was a 'sociopath', maybe just schizophrenic, or in common terms "nuts".

he saved the last bullet for himself. sociopaths don't typically do that , to my understanding?
 anonymouslyme
Joined: 12/23/2008
Msg: 15
another workplace mass murder - mental health checkups needed
Posted: 8/4/2010 5:27:52 PM
I think mentally unstable people fall through the cracks every day, because it's not something that has obvious unmistakable symptoms 24/7. Emotional breakdowns always occur in response to changing life circumstances.

Yes, he was caught stealing, and that's the reason the company gave for firing him, which was obviously valid, but there was obviously a lot of pent up hostility there, and that was just the straw that broke the camel's back. I don't know any more than what I read in the news, but it seems there was some speculation about ongoing racial animosity. He spoke to other people about it prior to this event, so either it was true, or at the very least, he percieved it to be true. I read that he specifically chose his targets, and walked right by other people he didn't feel compelled to shoot... that tells me there just might be some validity to his feelings. Not that what he did was justified, but it should cause people to stop and reflect on how they treat people on a day to day basis.

I had a meeting this afternoon with a gentlemen that owned a used car lot. During the course of our meeting, a man came in with his two sons. The father didn't speak english, so his son was interpreting for him, and he was absolutely irate. He had purchased a car from the lot a few days prior, and had discovered several issues with the car after the fact, expensive ones, that he did not have the additional money to take care of. The owner of the lot basically told him tough crap... you bought the car as is, get lost. At one point, the man stormed out of the office, and started rummaging around in the trunk of the car. With this news story fresh in my mind, I immediately left the office, and hustled to a laundromat across the street to watch from a safe distance. Turned out, the man was just grabbing car parts from the trunk, which he flung on the desk to prove his point, thank God.... but who knows how that could have turned out, if he was mentally unbalanced? I understood his point though. It sucks to get screwed over like that, and have other people act as though they were perfectly entitled to treat you badly. I'm thinking each one of us has a breaking point, somewhere inside us. Whether we ever reach it depends largely on how much crap we're dealt in life, and how good our coping skills are to deal with things like that.

I think things like this should be a wake up call for us to really examine the way we treat our fellow human beings on a day to day basis. At the end of the day, we are all in this together, and we're only as strong as our weakest link. Rather than try to diminish that link even further in an effort to bolster our own egos, we might want to start thinking about offering compassion and support, or at least some level of humanity towards others. Pretty sure the people who were bypassed for execution in that massacre were really glad they had never treated this guy poorly. I also have no doubt that people whose stability is questionable would make far more humane decisions if they felt some kind of care and goodwill flowing their way, as opposed to judgement, criticism, oppression, racism, etc.
 justbunky
Joined: 4/3/2009
Msg: 16
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another workplace mass murder - mental health checkups needed
Posted: 8/4/2010 6:58:19 PM
^^^ Well said, anonymously me. It should be a wake-up call.

Don't scoff at the issue of racism in the workplace, especially if you've never been in the minority. Its effects are cumulative and can be crushing, and often victims don't complain, because of fear of disbelief, retaliation, accusations of "playing the race card", etc.

As for mental health maintenance - of course there are ways to do routine evaluations. Many mental conditions have physiological manifestations as "chemical imbalances". And there are batteries of other tests that are used by psychiatrists, therapists, psychologists, social workers, etc etc. It is the job of these professionals to identify and assist people with mental health problems, and their services are at least as accessible - if not more so, because of their numbers - than other medical providers.

You can't just blame the families. What are they supposed to do, lock up their loved ones just because they're having trouble at work?

The very fact that incidents like this tragedy are happening more and more often shows that we have a major systematic failure somewhere. It's not an isolated incident. Wish it were.
 theforumfiend
Joined: 10/21/2007
Msg: 17
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another workplace mass murder - mental health checkups needed
Posted: 8/4/2010 7:20:19 PM
I agree that we should be treating people with respect, but you do not know that the victims were racists or treated this man poorly. Even though we know he felt that way is not proof that it was real.

Recently I was accused of racism by a guy because I couldn't provide a service he wanted in the middle of nowhere. Race had nothing to do with my inability to give him what he wanted. I just don't have that kind of authority at the company I work for. This same man had no problem verbally abusing me - who he had never met and was talking to via phone. I did not retaliate and join him in exchanging insults - although I admit it was tempting. Unfortunately some people are not reasonable. Some are just frustrated. Some are sick. Some are jerks.

Edit: While you feel that medical evaluations should be simple there is still the issue of privacy. If a person's family has such a hard time getting a family member to get help what makes you think a business can?
 justbunky
Joined: 4/3/2009
Msg: 18
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another workplace mass murder - mental health checkups needed
Posted: 8/4/2010 7:31:57 PM
I'm not saying the business/employer should be responsible for personal evaluations, just that mental health maintenance should be available somewhere in the line of standard health care services. Kinda like a routine dental check and cleaning.
 MrABQ87114
Joined: 7/29/2010
Msg: 19
another workplace mass murder - mental health checkups needed
Posted: 8/4/2010 9:18:34 PM

What do you think?

I think it is more a failing of a family and social system taken over by government than gun control, mental health, health industry, etc.
Social consequences "offend" and hurt, so can't have that, which neuters community and family authority.


How can our systems fail people so badly that they crumble into mental illness so severe that killing seems the best (or only) solution to their problems?

Personally I think murder is a very sane thing to do. It ends a problem, immediately, and highlights exactly where a social cancer is that needs to be excised.
I think the "failure" of the system is over valuing human life while not mandating, forcing, or reinforcing individuals to value their own as highly.


Why doesn't the health care system offer mental health checkups, the same way it does physicals?

Because of things like (from July 27, 2010):

"Leading mental health experts gave a briefing on Tuesday to warn that a new edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), which is being revised now for publication in 2013, could devalue the seriousness of mental illness and label almost everyone as having some kind of disorder."

From
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE66Q4BJ20100727

Try getting an appointment when 300 million people need to get checkups, plus the doctors themselves need to get check ups.

And do you think people won't scream when everyone is going to be thrown into some sort of Obamacare government mandated mental checkup?

And good luck getting everyone to be honest with their mandated forced therapist.

And do you think there won't be cries of "the rich can afford better doctors for more accurate tests, or they can pay off their doctors, it's a class system! It's not fair!"


the worst part is that we're becoming numb to mass shootings, in schools, at work, and in the streets.

Not to mention rapes, serial killers, child drownings, war, airplane crashes, car crashes, terrorist acts, child molestation, pretty much any "bad" thing that is sensationalized and made into a Meredith Baxter-Birney Lifetime movie of the week to "educate."
 Annie was here
Joined: 3/12/2010
Msg: 20
another workplace mass murder - mental health checkups needed
Posted: 8/4/2010 11:07:06 PM
Just as many horrifying and insane things have happened throughout history.The only difference now is that there are far more people on this planet then there were before and television,radio and phones make tragedies travel faster and become more well known then they ever were before.Boiling people in oil,stretching them on a rack till their bones broke and came out of their joints,public disembowelment etc... were even more horrifying and insane then anything we hear about today after all. There truly is nothing new under the sun.
 Padawan61
Joined: 3/1/2008
Msg: 21
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another workplace mass murder - mental health checkups needed
Posted: 8/4/2010 11:19:46 PM
Seriously, I could understand someone cracking and going postal after years of oppression and suppressed agression, but this is beyond comprehension

I have a question, Lint. The term "going postal" was derived from some postal worker killing fellow employees at a post office/mail warehouse ... was it not??

Therefore, if some disgruntle ex-employee of Wally World went in a shot up a bunch of cashiers and stockboys ... would that be called "going retail"?? Just askin'
 valenciacityx
Joined: 3/10/2009
Msg: 22
another workplace mass murder - mental health checkups needed
Posted: 8/5/2010 12:14:28 AM
going postal wasnt from just one instance of USPS employee shooting but SEVERAL and in quick sucession.

I would imagine if a wally world employee did it, and then it was copied and repeated.... maybe it would be called 'a Rollback"

We are only as strong as our weakest link.... which is why you find the weak link and eliminate them. you dont coddle and drag them along.
or did you never built teams the way we did
(unless you are playing survivor and then you vote of the strong candidate because they are a threat to you winning)
 anonymouslyme
Joined: 12/23/2008
Msg: 23
another workplace mass murder - mental health checkups needed
Posted: 8/5/2010 5:44:53 AM

We are only as strong as our weakest link.... which is why you find the weak link and eliminate them.
I think that's a pretty cold way to view your fellow human beings... Heaven forbid YOU ever suffer some debilitating event, that sends you tumbling down the food chain. That reaping what you've sown thing can be a real bltch, sometimes.
 cookie22222
Joined: 8/4/2007
Msg: 24
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another workplace mass murder - mental health checkups needed
Posted: 8/5/2010 6:32:51 AM
These things happen...I don't know that there is any preventing them.

I worked at a post office for a while, one of the big processing plants - took me about a month to see why people "go postal". The atmosphere in there was horrible...and you were worked near to death.

People do have breaking points. Maybe people have a proclivity to some sort of mental "quirk", that in the right circumstances, can cause them to "go postal"...maybe if they were not in certain situations, they would have gone on to lead normal lives. Who knows?

I think it's interesting to note that most of the time when you hear about these incidents everyone says they can't believe it...he was so normal! You almost never hear, well, I knew something was going to happen but no one listened...

How could you test for this? Test everyone in the country? Because if you don't show signs of a problem...then what's the reason to be tested?
 az109
Joined: 7/3/2010
Msg: 25
another workplace mass murder - mental health checkups needed
Posted: 8/5/2010 8:49:46 AM

There truly is nothing new under the sun.
The Swiffer is new. It's not a mop or a broom but like both in one. They didn't have Swiffers in the old days to clean up after public executions. Post-It notes are new. Before Post-Its if you wanted to attach a yellow square of paper to your computer monitor you had to use spit, or chewing gum, or duct tape. You're probably too young to remember.

This is one of those subjects where it helps to gather and analyze data. Count how many times this sort of thing happens, see if it happens more or less or stays the same frequency. It could be happening less frequently but reported more sensationally.

The economy is tight right now. There are conditions for exasperation. But sometimes people go and kill at work just because of something happening in their own mind unrelated to overall conditions. You can watch a TV show, get riled up, and jump to conclusions expressing your emotional and uninformed sense of the world around you, but that is different from looking at the subject rationally to understand it. Then you also have to allow for irrational behaviors, of which an understanding amounts to acknowledgment that such happen.

It may be unsettling to know about human beings that sometimes one will just act in an irrational and destructive way, but that is true and short of keeping everyone locked up at all times, living among people includes the risk of being caught up in mayhem and madness, or even the less mysterious event known as having a bad day. I think the best response to news of this sort is to use it as an opportunity to declare your personal opinions, especially about how most people are, the state of the world, and what "they" should do about it.
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