| | Judging someone from the way they treat their pets.Page 1 of 6 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6) | Recently had a date that completely turned me off with a simple comment. She often mentioned her dog and I asked what she'd done with it while we were on our date.
Turns out she locks it up in it's cage (where it can barely stand) like she always does whenever she leaves her condo. She does this every day, for hours on end. She even laughed as she recalled one time it had covered itself in shit from having diarrhea and she had to hose it down outside to clean it.
I found the whole thing rather thoughtless and cruel: if you can't take care of a pet, just don't get one. Or get a pet you can actually care for: there are plenty of pets that don't need as much attention as a dog.
Anyway, did I overreact? Most people I know treat their pets better than their kids (since they're eternally dependent on them) and this was just a huge red flag for me. | |
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| Judging someone from the way they treat their pets.
Posted: 9/4/2010 1:26:12 PM |
if you can't take care of a pet, just don't get one.
Same with kids.
Whataryagonnado?
there are plenty of pets that don't need as much attention as a dog.
Like kids. You just need school and a t.v., throw some McNuggets at it once in a while.
Anyway, did I overreact? ...turned me off with a simple comment.
How can getting turned off be an over reaction?
Did you lock her in a cage and feed her 6 boxes of ex lax hidden in prunes, smothered in E. Coli? That might have been an over reaction, unless you work for PETA. | |
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| Judging someone from the way they treat their pets.
Posted: 9/4/2010 1:34:30 PM | "Turns out she locks it up in it's cage (where it can barely stand) like she always does whenever she leaves her condo. She does this every day, for hours on end. She even laughed as she recalled one time it had covered itself in shit from having diarrhea and she had to hose it down outside to clean it. "
Are you in the pet industry? Have any knowledge about crate training? Do you know that it is a widely used technique? Do you know that it is vet and trainer recommended?
Why not check into before making a decision about something you don't seem familiar with?
""Turns out she locks it up in it's cage ".......normal training technique.
"(where it can barely stand)" .......that is just wrong for some many reasons.
"one time it had covered itself in shit from having diarrhea and she had to hose it down outside to clean it. "
If it wasn't crated, the diarrhea would be all over the condo. Which sounds best? Cleaning up a small area or a big one? | |
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| Judging someone from the way they treat their pets.
Posted: 9/4/2010 1:36:07 PM | | Not only would I have been offended and had a bad reaction, I'd have reported her or found a way to have the pet confiscated. That way she wouldn't have to put any pet anywhere when she didn't want to be bothered. Pfft. | |
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| Judging someone from the way they treat their pets.
Posted: 9/4/2010 1:46:01 PM |
If it wasn't crated, the diarrhea would be all over the condo. Which sounds best? Cleaning up a small area or a big one?
Or, rather than being lazy...how about not crating a dog that has the trots in the first place? Most people that use crates a) make sure they are the appropriate size for the animal, and b) make sure the animal has done its business before crating it. So the trots likely weren't a surprise. Have you ever met a dog yet that wants to shyte where it sleeps?
I don't think you overreacted at all, OP, I'd have likely finished the date right then and there. What kind of responsible pet owner actually laughs at their pet's discomfort like that? Disgusting. | |
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| Judging someone from the way they treat their pets.
Posted: 9/4/2010 2:35:57 PM | "I'd have reported her or found a way to have the pet confiscated. "
Not the way it works! If we can't stamp out puppy mills due to what amount that exist, we sure can't confiscate an animal for human stupidity. I wish things were easier to stop, but in the real world they simply aren't.
Where do you think confiscated pet go? 99% go to death row.
"make sure the animal has done its business before crating it. "
Great idea, but in the real world many owners don't bother with toilet training or walking dogs. They find it easier to just clean up the mess because the owner doesn't know any better.
I saw a pet trade magasine. Front cover listed "Inside see the breeds that can't be trained". I am thinking WTF? The artical inside said that most big dogs are toilet trained while many small dogs are not. The reason was that you could clean up after a small dog with a paper towel, but big dog would require the owner to use a shovel. | |
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az109
| | Joined: 7/3/2010
Msg: 7 | |
| Judging someone from the way they treat their pets.
Posted: 9/4/2010 5:05:22 PM | This got me thinking. What if I went over to her house, and she had a dog, and the dog humped her leg and she let him? I think I would be encouraged to expect good things for us going forward. (Me and her, not me and the dog.)
"Hi Sugar!"
"Hi Stud!"
"Say, I was thinking I could drop by tonight after work. Is your other leg free?"
"Sure thing! For you, my other leg is always free. Come on over with bells on."
See, that is love. That is what it's all about. | |
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| Judging someone from the way they treat their pets.
Posted: 9/4/2010 6:09:29 PM | | The first time I'd ever heard of crating was on these forums and I was horrified. I think it's awful that people are so selfish they insist on having a pet when they don't have the proper accommodations for them. There's no question a story like that would completely turn me off a guy. | |
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| Judging someone from the way they treat their pets.
Posted: 9/4/2010 6:22:39 PM | I think the beech needs to be put in a crate for 10 hours to see just how it feels to be locked up in a lil crate all day. Not to mention she needs a good kick in the azz. Self absorbed selfish douche bag.
And that poster who claims it is an accepted form of containment. I say bullsheet. It is accepted by the people who make the crates, the people who distribute the crates, the magazines who make money advertising the crates and the retail outlets who sell the crates. Canines did not evolve to be locked up in a lil box for hours on end.
Yes appropriate for travel perhaps on a plane or train but not to be locked in all day while one is away at work for 8 - 10 hours on a daily basis.  | |
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| Judging someone from the way they treat their pets.
Posted: 9/4/2010 7:21:15 PM | "And that poster who claims it is an accepted form of containment. I say bullsheet. "
People might want to check information from Dr. Ian Dunbar, who spend 40 years with a research team studying dogs in their natural terrain with human intervention.
Left to their own devices dogs band together in a pack which has it's own order. Dogs sleep a good part of the day, in cave type spots that they can stand up in but that are not much bigger than their bodies. These cave spots are the dogs safe place that they select for hours that are spent sleeping. Who are humans to tell dogs that they evolved incorrectly. | |
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| Judging someone from the way they treat their pets.
Posted: 9/4/2010 8:30:34 PM | ^^^only you forgot to mention those dogs in their comfy cubby hole caves can leave anytime they want.... then come back in and sleep or do whatever they want whenever they want...........not the case with a crated dog for 8 - 10 or more hours a day. And I have no idea why you would mention that canine are pack animals as this has no bearing on a crated canine what so ever.
Your reasoning and rational is weak as was your response. For someone to claim and agree that putting a canine in a small cage for many many hours a day is akin to a "natural environment" ...... well........ perhaps your own personal evolution got hung up somewhere ... lol
People slept and lived in caves too...... but they were able to move around, leave or whatever when they wanted...... not when someone came home from work and let them out when it was convienant for them.... | |
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| Judging someone from the way they treat their pets.
Posted: 9/5/2010 1:31:02 AM | Tangent: Observing how they treat their pets is indicative but even better, observe how their pets treat them.
Dog's unruly, disobedient.
Dog eager to meet you but doesn't jump.
Stops barking when told.
Dog begs from table.
Dog flinches when owner raises their hand/voice.
Rescue dog or purchased.
Dog is at the door when you arrive but only barks 5-10 times. | |
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| Judging someone from the way they treat their pets.
Posted: 9/5/2010 8:12:24 AM | "Your reasoning and rational is weak as was your response. For someone to claim and agree that putting a canine in a small cage for many many hours a day is akin to a "natural environment" ...... well........ perhaps your own personal evolution got hung up somewhere ... lol"
So, uneducated people know more than expertise about canine behaviour.
That is why millions of canines are put down yearly. I wish that humans who think they know everything (well meaning or not) had to spend time in canine rescue so they could see first hand the reality of animals forced to attempt to live as humans, when the dogs don't live up to the expection of being able to think like a human and it cost them their lives.
Dogs do not think like humans no matter how much humans want them to. | |
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| Judging someone from the way they treat their pets.
Posted: 9/5/2010 8:35:23 AM | | May be a little over-reaction. I would have a problem with the dog not being able to stand, when you put a dog in a crate, it should be able to stand and turn around comfortably. I had a small dog that HAD to be crate trained and the crate he was in was more than enough room for him to get up and move around in. And yes the dog did diarehea in there one day and it got all over him, I wouldn't say I was laughing about it though. I probably would have just made a comment about possibly getting a bigger crate so the dog would be more comfortable in it but that's about it. If she was hitting and abusing the dog in front of you, then I would see that as a deal breaker. | |
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| Judging someone from the way they treat their pets.
Posted: 9/5/2010 9:01:25 AM | "Crates" have a place, but they must be proper size.
Story: One of my officers found a thrown away 15 day old puppy, in a trash dumpster.
We couldn't locate any siblings, and the pup was taken to a 24 hr. vet.
I decided to adopt the pup, but was told that it probably wouldn't live..later, a second phone call to the vet revealed that she was a tough little nut, and they accepted my card. She is ten now, and rules this roost with an iron paw..both dogs here, out weigh her by at least 50-60 pounds..but do not mess with her 
She was 'crate' trained as she was so small, and us having large dogs (Labs), we feared her being injured. This was after she was out from under 24 hr. care and we were finally able to bring her home. The crate was quite large, as she was very small.
She would stay in her crate at night, and often during the day she would go to her crate for her naps, if she made it that far..being a pup, she would usually crash where she was..
I believe in crates, but they have to be the proper size.
I even made her, her own web page, tuned to children being nice to pets. No one should just throw away an animal. She was my late wives shadow.
Shortly after my wife passed away, with family here in the house, someone went out the front door, and she went out with them, taking off..running at full speed down the block..she never had done that before. Luckily my eldest granddaughter is a track star and holder of school 100/200m records..she caught up to her, but it was a dayum good race.... | |
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| Judging someone from the way they treat their pets.
Posted: 9/5/2010 10:05:12 AM | So, uneducated people know more than expertise about canine behaviour.
Clearly............... some educated people have no clue either !
But hey, if you want to lock up your dog in crate all day long, everyday all day long with the crate door locked closed while you are in work and you feel that is a natural environment for your dog and you feel good about that..... well good for you and my sincere sympathies to your dog... | |
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| Judging someone from the way they treat their pets.
Posted: 9/5/2010 10:31:02 AM | My sympathies are for the canines who are killed every day because they were owned by people who don't know how to train dogs to be productive rather than destuctive.
The average age of dogs killed is 1 year old. Why because people get a cute puppy and have no idea how to train it and don't bother to find out. People get dogs that don't fit their lifestyles. People don't bother to figure out how big the dog is going to grow, or what the cost of medical care, training etc. is going to cost them. Crating is the least worry for those dogs.
Let's see. In rescue work we have multiple dogs daily that will be put down unless we find them a suitable home. We have to screen multiple applications. No point in dog coming back into rescue if the people can't handle it or the dog isn't going to be cared for properly.
We have a choice between homes where the dog will be crate trained, and will be given reasonable lifestyle (medical care etc.) but the dog will have to be crated while the dog owner isn't home because the dogs isn't fully trained yet. Or we can just let the dog become another part of the stats of dogs killed because of dog destructive behaviour. I know what my choice is.
Foster homes often use crates because the dog has comes from abuse situations and has to learn to trust humans again. Just try leaving a dog or two together who is unable to feel insecure due to the abuse they have received. You will return home to problems.
Try not crating a dog that is terrified of thunderstorms, and come home to the damage the dog has done to itself and the home.
What is better, to crate a dog, and come home and greet the dog because you are happy to see it, and play time can start. Or come home to torn up property and the dogs knows it has done wrong because the human is less than amused.
What people want to do is focus their outrage at puppy mills where dogs are product to make money. They are kept in tiny crates stacked on top of one another. Their health and temperament in impaired. However, these puppy sells to people who don't realize that every puppy that is sold means that the crated for life mother will have to produce another litter until her body gives out. | |
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| Judging someone from the way they treat their pets.
Posted: 9/5/2010 10:35:14 AM | Whether or not to use crate training is really not the subject here... when done appropriately, IMO it's one of many viable methods. I personally do not prefer it.
However, in this instance, I think anyone who advocates and/or teaches crate training professionally would be horrified as well. It certainly isn't intended to provide a storage facility for the owner's convenience!
Has the woman never heard the words "play group" or "dog walker"? Neither is hard to find...
I would have been totally turned off, too. To some suggestions that you request assistance for the dog, I doubt there's anything the local animal rescue or SPCA can do, though. They basically just check to see that the pet seems to be sufficiently fed, housed, and watered, with no evident injuries or infections, and if so, they're powerless even if they think something's wrong. | |
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| Judging someone from the way they treat their pets.
Posted: 9/5/2010 10:53:15 AM | Crate training and crating have their place. But again, if there is a compelling reason to crate the dog,the crate should be of adequate size.
Some dogs actually like that sense of security, and will "invent" their own crates. If people have a room, a safe balcony, or room for a kennel and run in their yard, those might be somewhat better solutions than a crate-ideally one expands the "crate" until it's the entire domicile or thereabouts, and the dog is trained to relieve itself OUTDOORS,either on a leash or independently( if the environment is safe to do so) But it has to start somewhere, the respect for the "den"-and a crate is just as good as any.
As far as the diarhhea incident, that is a risk that any pet owner takes unless the pet is a TOTALLY outdoor pet with acreage to roam. Dog doors and fenced yards are great, too-but if we confine pet ownership ONLY to those who can afford those-and doggie nannies maybe-we would be doing a disservice to many.
Add to that, many special-purpose dogs-show dogs, field trial dogs, sled dogs, need to understand a "crate concept", to do well at their specialty. Some dogs CAN be a pet and a special-purpose dog-having a bond with your lead dog is a boon-but the human MUST be the alpha in any situation where harmonious living with a dog is desired.
OP, I think your heart is basically in the right place.-If the woman has her dog crated in too small a space, she's working against herself-and the diarrhea incident? SHIT happens. Certainly if it becomes a frequent occurrence, something is wrong and needs to be identified and corrected. But understand that letting your dog ,cat, horse, raccoon-whatever have free roam and walk all over the owner is also not a healthy human/pet relationship.
But step one to living sucessfully with any kind of pack or herd animal is establishing that the human being in the equation IS the "alpha"-part of that is letting the animal know where it's designated spot in the den is. That's the basis of crating.
Cindy O | |
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| Judging someone from the way they treat their pets.
Posted: 9/5/2010 11:07:50 AM | I have always had dogs - outside dogs when I was a child, inside dogs when I moved to the city. Some dog trainers say dogs feel safe and secure in a cage and that may be true but since we cannot ask them, I have my doubts. My dogs have always been given the run of the house while I was at work or gone. But this woman's reaction to the dog not being able to stand up and having diarrhea in the cage is atrocious! A dog will never, ever willingly mess where it sleeps. Give the beech the heave ho; she has huge red flags because animal abuse translates many times to human abuse and she is abusing this dog by leaving it alone all day in a crate. Dogs need human interraction, EXERCISE and a clean environment. I have a non-profit org. devoted to upgrading my state's cruelty to animals laws, so I hear every kind of horrible story imaginable; this is a lesser case of abuse but it is still abuse.  | |
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| Judging someone from the way they treat their pets.
Posted: 9/5/2010 12:44:27 PM | I dont think you over reacted but you may have wanted to discuss her reasons for caging her dog.
As a Veterinary Nurse I can tell you that cage training is a very well respected method of house training dogs (and I have worked with Ian Dunbar and Roger Mugford and attended many of their dog psychology classes), as well as a method for relieving anxiety and destructive tendencies (which are almost always a by-product of anxiety.)
If this technique is started when the dog is a pup, it sees the kennel as its bed, its sleeping area and it place of security. After the toilet training phase you dont even need the door, in my experience, most dogs continue to use them of their own free will
When toilet training the door should only be closed when you are out and you shouldnt leave you dog in it for long periods (I would say 30 mins for a puppy and up to 2 hours for an adult that is physically able to hold its bladder)
The kennel should be big enough for the dog to stand and turn round and have a bed and a bowl of water and toys and space for him/her to be fed in.
Most dogs that have a kennel choose to sleep in it and go in it when it wants a bit of peace from the family.
If she knew the dog had an upset stomach she should never of left it in that cage, but who's to say she knew? Did you ask her? It is a bit telling that she found this funny rather than being concerned. Also that fact that she told you the dog can hardly stand would ring alarm bells for me. She certainly needs an education.
toilet training (or training of any behaviour) is not difficult if the technique is followed through with consistency. There is no such thing as an untrainable dog. I actually used the same technique that I use for puppies to potty train my daughter and it was done in 3 days!
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| Judging someone from the way they treat their pets.
Posted: 9/5/2010 1:53:38 PM | | I'm appalled that someone could think this is acceptable... I don't agree with caging animals unless it's to transport them and even then, if the animal can be brought from point A to point B without being caged, all the better. I agree... use the PETA organization to rescue the dog. | |
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| Judging someone from the way they treat their pets.
Posted: 9/5/2010 1:54:16 PM | I do not care what someone does...what they do is how we judge them. Pretty simple.
You date someone looking for the things you like and trying to figure out if the things you don't like are things you can let go of.
How this person treated their pet bothered you. Seems like a fair judgement to me.
For how they treated their pets replace pets with wait staff, siblings, parents, friends, strangers, children and so on. Watching how someone acts is how we figure out if we want to spend time with them. Pretty much you take the 'seems like a nice person' train until you hit the border of Douchey Town. Sounds like she lives in douchey town
for putting a sick animal in a crate that is too small. | |
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