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 NothingLeftToBurn
Joined: 6/11/2007
Msg: 1
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The Zeitgeist MovementPage 1 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)
Search on Youtuvbe:
ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011

then watch and discuss. Warning, it's 2+ hours long but well worth the watch.

Search on Youtuvbe:
ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011

then watch and discuss. Warning, it's 2+ hours long but well worth the watch.

Search on Youtuvbe:
ZEITGEIST: MOVING FORWARD | OFFICIAL RELEASE | 2011

then watch and discuss. Warning, it's 2+ hours long but well worth the watch.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 2
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The Zeitgeist Movement
Posted: 1/29/2011 1:37:14 PM
The "movement" is nothing more than a feel good panacea at best; a cynical con at worst.

They don't actually do anything to make things better, just try to get more people in until they hit some mythical number of adherents when supposedly they will start actually doing something. The number is, of course, stupidly high and would doubtless go up if they actually managed to get that many.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 3
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The Zeitgeist Movement
Posted: 1/29/2011 5:03:18 PM
I am not interested in watching a two hour conspiracy theory movie, frankly. I read about it, and that's enough for me.
On the other hand, I do very much believe that a genuine close look at the ramifications of international finance and some of the versions of capitalism that are being pushed forward, is called for. We may or may not be at a particularly important point in human events, but it is certainly true, I think, that some of the manipulations of capitalism which have taken place, and others which are being put forward, are and/or will be ultimately very bad for the world as a whole, and us "peasants" as a sub group.
 colt8301
Joined: 10/25/2006
Msg: 4
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The Zeitgeist Movement
Posted: 1/31/2011 3:31:38 AM

I am not interested in watching a two hour conspiracy theory movie, frankly. I read about it, and that's enough for me.



lol^^^^^I saw the first one and it was some interesting things in there. I to the point now who cares? I told my brother the other day about things we only have a few hours here, just fu%^ing enjoy them.
 Island home
Joined: 7/5/2009
Msg: 5
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The Zeitgeist Movement
Posted: 1/31/2011 5:09:21 AM
Well worth the 4 hours it took to download (the price you pay for unlimited but slow down loads:-)
I had seen an earlier one of their films
This version appears to be moving in the right direction
As always one needs to keep their critical thinking facility functioning.
Not sure where I may disagree with it but there is a lot to be considered
There is no need to agree with it in totality to find some worthwhile thinking in it
I certainly see it as offering more probability of positive possibilities than the current system we operate under which definitely encompasses negative inevitabilities

I saw little that I could disagree with in this 50 minute interview with the Zeitgeist Movement's creator Peter Joseph
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw9IHJNB75E&feature=related
 motown cowgirl
Joined: 6/30/2010
Msg: 6
The Zeitgeist Movement
Posted: 2/4/2011 4:12:33 AM
there is just no way in hell i'm sitting through 2 hours of youtube, and i am certainly not going to listen to 2 solid hours of indoctrination no matter who's doing the talking. however, i did take a peek at their website just for kicks. so here's all ya need to know:

----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Zeitgeist Movement is not a political movement. It does not recognize nations, governments, races, religions, creeds or class. Our understandings conclude that these are false, outdated distinctions which are far from positive factors for true collective human growth and potential. Their basis is in power division and stratification, not unity and equality, which is our goal. While it is important to understand that everything in life is a natural progression, we must also acknowledge the reality that the human species has the ability to drastically slow and paralyze progress, through social structures which are out of date, dogmatic, and hence out of line with nature itself. The world you see today, full of war, corruption, elitism, pollution, poverty, epidemic disease, human rights abuses, inequality and crime is the result of this paralysis.

This movement is about awareness, in avocation of a fluid evolutionary progress, both personal, social, technological and spiritual. It recognizes that the human species is on a natural path for unification, derived from a communal acknowledgment of fundamental and near empirical understandings of how nature works and how we as humans fit into/are a part of this universal unfolding we call life. While this path does exist, it is unfortunately hindered and not recognized by the great majority of humans, who continue to perpetuate outdated and hence degenerative modes of conduct and association. It is this intellectual irrelevancy which the Zeitgeist Movement hopes to overcome through education and social action.

The goal is to revise our world society in accord with present day knowledge on all levels, not only creating awareness of social and technological possibilities many have been conditioned to think impossible or against "human nature", but also to provide a means to overcome those elements in society which perpetuate these outdated systems.

An important association, upon which many of the ideas of this movement are derived come from an organization called " The Venus Project" directed by social engineer and industrial designer, Jacque Fresco. He has worked nearly his entire life to create the tools needed to assist a design of the world which could eventually eradicate war, poverty, crime, social stratification and corruption. His notions are not radical or complex. They do not impose a subjective interpretation in their formation. In this model, society is created as a mirror of nature, with the variables predefined, inherently.

The movement itself is not a centralized construct.
We are not here to lead, but to organize and educate.

Everyone must drink the Kool-Aid.

http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

excuse me, but this is just unmitigated bullshit and mind-numbing psycho-babble.
who has time to think this stuff up, Lord Maitreya?? some other smiling self-appointed savior walking around in a white sheet?? please. me fookin' eyes are bleeding.

 Island home
Joined: 7/5/2009
Msg: 7
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The Zeitgeist Movement
Posted: 2/4/2011 5:06:53 PM
Seek and you shall find

Exactly what you are looking for evidently

What I found on the first page of the global USA site was some of the the basic observations below

For those that have eyes that bleed from too much reading (I have the same problem)

What the basic observations say is

The present system is not sustainable and has little incentive to change itself.

If you choose to explore further
Be careful, heads have been known to explode while going through a paradigm shift.
If you do survive you can have the benefit of the clarity that at least 2 views give you.

I wouldn't claim that they have the answer
But I would claim that it is possible good answers can be constructed from some of the fresh ideas presented

Basic Observations:
In the view of The Movement, the world today has become very detached from the physical world, with techniques of production and distribution that have no relationship to the environment. Our use of a profit based, “growth” driven monetary system has become one of the greatest destroyers of the natural world, not to mention sustainable human values. It is important to understand that the entire global economy requires “cyclical consumption” to operate, which means that money must constantly be circulating. Thus, new goods and services must be constantly introduced regardless of the state of the environment and actual human necessity. This "perpetual" approach has a fatal flaw, for resources as we know it are simply not infinite. Resources are finite and the Earth is essentially a closed system.
The true goal of any economy is to preserve - or "economize" - this is not occurring and cannot occur in a monetary driven system where labor for income requires consumer demand. We actually live in a global "anti-economy" by all rational standards.

Also, the intents inherent within a monetary system are counter progressive and derive a strategic edge from scarcity. This means that depleted resources are actually a positive thing for industry in the short term, for more money can be made off each respective unit. This is known as the basic law of supply & demand and hence “value” in economics. This creates a perverse reinforcement to ignore environmental problems and the negative consequences of scarcity, for it literally translates into profit. There is little intrinsic motivation to "solve" any problem or to make things that last in the current model. It is much more beneficial for jobs and hence profit to "service" things- not resolve them.
 sexyisback!
Joined: 9/14/2010
Msg: 8
The Zeitgeist Movement
Posted: 2/5/2011 9:46:40 AM

has little incentive to change itself.


exactly

thus "Zeitgeist" is doomed to failure because it/they ALSO have little incentive to change

anything, certainly not in the short-term..as soon as it affects their pocket-books or

requires any MEANINGFUL level of anything like "sacrifice"..

99% + of the "Zeitgesiters" will abandon the movement..just like previous "movements":

the Beats of the 1950's , the hippies of the 1960's, the communes, etc. of late 1960's/early 1970's..and on, and on

what are the "Chicago 7" & "SDS" (Students for a Democratic Society) - who were so "ON FIRE" to 'change the world' back in the 1960's doing now?

last I heard they were all working on Wall st., etc..
 drommerboy
Joined: 2/1/2011
Msg: 9
The Zeitgeist Movement
Posted: 2/5/2011 2:59:12 PM
There is a BIG difference between Zeitgeist and peaceniks.

There are many differences, of course, the main one being that I was YOUNG during the peacenik era.

That nobody can take away from me.
 drommerboy
Joined: 2/1/2011
Msg: 10
The Zeitgeist Movement
Posted: 2/5/2011 3:02:00 PM
The Zeitgeist Movement is not a political movement. It does not recognize nations, governments, races, religions, creeds or class.

How much more political can you get than declaring political boundaries and social arrangements null and void?

The Beatniks and Flufferheads and Gammlers and Mohicans at least had some brains.

"I am not the six o'clock news. I am on television, saying news at six o'clock."
 drommerboy
Joined: 2/1/2011
Msg: 11
The Zeitgeist Movement
Posted: 2/5/2011 3:30:57 PM
Nothing left to burn, I wish to make a point.

There are two things:

1. Revolutions. A bunch of get-up-and-go guys realize the situation is unbearable, they organize a coup-de-tat, and win. This may make several years, more than many attempts, and may involve serious philosophers who create a workable system that will replace the existing one.

2. Religions, particularly cults. Cults attract people who follow leaders because they lack self-confidence and purpose in life. (But not necessarily arrogance.) Only those who don't work and have too much time to think, are able to develop a feeling of "no purpose in life". Charwomen and busy executives never think of the meaning of life.

3. Hence, most cults cater to a quick-fix of giving the followers something to chew on. This bone is usually served as an easy-to-eat, but indigistible food for thought. The ideas that are put forth are vague, even its promises are vague, there is no clear purpose or life in it, or purpose of life in it. It sports a leader, a charming and charismatic, but often haggard and overwrought leader, who has a semi-paralized girlfriend, and they do the best they can to rile up as many people as they can, only to find that when they have those people, there is nothing they can do to satisfy them in terms of objectives, or doable tasks.

4. In religious cults, this dilemma of "where to go next" is simple to smooth over, you simply refer all questionables to god, and establish a working order of ceremonies and litanies, self-sacrificial lifestyle, and a steady income for the priest. This seems to put the thing in motion, and the rest is autopilot.

5. In revolutions, the people also don't work, but it's deceptive to think that they also suffer from borderline personality disorder. The revolutionaries want to work, and are starving, coz there is no food, no money to buy food with, no job to make money with. The revolutionaries don't think their life would be fulfilled only if they had a purpose; they think their life would be fulfilled if their stomachs would be fulfilled.

6. It is possible for a lot of people get excited about revolution, too, but there is going to be a fight with those who are not getting excited. In cults there is no fight.

7. Revolutionary ideas and crowds are also a dime a dozen, but only those survive whose philosophers have created a working model for the future social arrangement.

8. Cults don't survive. They don't even die. They fizz out. The leaders look for a new quick-fix of followers, and the followers go to visit Auntie Rachel and get a job maybe and go on Thanksgiving dinners, and eventually when they get bored enough, they find another cult to join.

9. Religions survive forever, it seems. It is more true of religions, though, than of capitalist corporations, that "the big fish eat the little fish." It would happen in capitalism, all right, but governments put a stop to that, what with the Sherman Anti-Combines act and similar. In religions, the gov'nor does not say a thing. It's hard to follow an order when that is not said out loud or spelled out in any which way.

10. Things remain the same. In social change, after a revolution, there is a new ruling class, which gives the orders to the same people. Yes, there will be more food, potentially, but the promise of freedom and free love and a new kind of cheeseburgers which grows your hair back, the very promise that moved the masses to action, because it tickled their fancy -- the promise of freedom, whatever that is -- is a false promise, but it so far worked EVERY *&^%ing time. Nevertheless, the social arrangement may be different, but there will always be leaders in any political system, they get the mullah and the chicks. There will be blokes who don't get that much mullah, and absolutely no action whatsoever. The religious will stay the same: go to laughing all the way to the afterlife, like to a bank, and in the meantime, trying to appear pious and aescethic. The cults will stay the same -- the New Age, the Zeitgeist, the New Generation, the Diet Generation, the New Diat, the Olson Sestuplets Diet, The Hepbourne Diet, The Quantanemento Diet, the Next Generation, the X generation, the Moral Majority, the Pro-Choicers, the Pink Panthers, the EST, the IST, The Gnostics. They come and go, and by some very mysterious reason they all have the same ideals -- tired, incredibly illogical and un-inspirational ideals, like knowing ahead of time what two numbers will be among the six winning numbers, and what you were six generations ago.

---------------------

Here's one piece of support for the superiority of the Cult I belong to: The Sixties Rock Music movement.

"Meet the new boss... same as the old boss."
 NothingLeftToBurn
Joined: 6/11/2007
Msg: 12
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Posted: 2/9/2011 3:04:50 PM
drommerboy, thanks for fleshing that out for me.

They mean well, but the second part of video veers somewhat into Marxist ideology. One point I do agree with is that we do not need the state in our social economic system- it's outdated technology. I'm against the entire centralized planning thing which they speak about. Instead of centralized planning without a monetary system, they need to jump on board the idea of a free market system.
 slimchance2010
Joined: 9/26/2010
Msg: 13
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Posted: 2/13/2011 5:42:00 AM
Reading many of the comments here it would appear that the prevailing sentiment is that mankind is intelligent to find more ways to use up all the resources of this planet and ensure it's own extinction but not intelligent enough to find a sustainable way to continue existing here. So why bother with the "psychobabble" discussion of ways to achieve sustainability?
 FrankNStein902
Joined: 12/26/2009
Msg: 14
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Posted: 2/13/2011 6:50:14 AM
Reading many of the comments here it would appear that the prevailing sentiment is that mankind is intelligent to find more ways to use up all the resources of this planet and ensure it's own extinction but not intelligent enough to find a sustainable way to continue existing here. So why bother with the "psychobabble" discussion of ways to achieve sustainability?

A basic understanding of nature would provide one with the knowledge that no living thing last forever.

Regardless what you do, man like every other living thing on this planet will go away and by replaced be something else.

Whether it be from our doing or some other force, to deny that is to deny nature.
 slimchance2010
Joined: 9/26/2010
Msg: 15
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Posted: 2/13/2011 2:22:48 PM
Well I was being slightly sarcastic but yeah, that was my point.

It is a little disheartening to see that in the world, the incentive to make the necessary changes ( long term survival) is just not enough for those changes to occur.
Why is it that it will take a cataclysm to implement the changes? It isn't that the trouble is in the future and impossible to see coming.
Not only is there a clear and present danger but the speed that it is coming at us is increasing. Am I being pessimistic? Certainly but just having faith that things will work out is not going to cut it.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 16
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Posted: 2/27/2011 6:59:22 AM

The Zeitgeist Movement is not a political movement. It does not recognize nations, governments, races, religions, creeds or class. Our understandings conclude that these are false, outdated distinctions which are far from positive factors for true collective human growth and potential. Their basis is in power division and stratification, not unity and equality, which is our goal. While it is important to understand that everything in life is a natural progression, we must also acknowledge the reality that the human species has the ability to drastically slow and paralyze progress, through social structures which are out of date, dogmatic, and hence out of line with nature itself. The world you see today, full of war, corruption, elitism, pollution, poverty, epidemic disease, human rights abuses, inequality and crime is the result of this paralysis.


Geeze!... I could have written that. Maybe Zeitgeist should be called the JustDukky movement.

While Zeitgeist is linked with the Venus Project, which I don't see as realistic, I think it helps show the mess we are in right now and where it is taking us. It is almost axiomatic that the current system is unsustainable and riding for a fall. Hopefully, the movies will show that well enough to get some asses in gear.

There will be a major change in human society; the only thing to determine is what that change will be. Given the general ignorance of the TV watchers, or feelings of despair and apathy in many of our other brethren, it would appear the outlook for humanity is none too good. Cheer up!...Atlantis will fall, but I think few of us will survive and we will enter a new stone age to begin anew the perpetual struggle for existence.

On the other hand, this one might be for all the chips and we are looking at the extinction of the human race (after we kill most of the other ones of course) in the next 50 years or so. I'd hate to think that mother earth might wind up a dead planet, but hey...whatcha gonna do? Maybe we just climbed down from the trees too early, without sufficient compassion to create a civilization worth living in.
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 17
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Posted: 2/27/2011 7:58:53 AM
I saw the original movie and it was largely crap. It had a few interesting point about Christianity, but 99% of the claims are demonstrably false. From what I've been able to determine about the Venus Project is that it's just repackaged communism.
 GlasgowIain2011
Joined: 2/13/2011
Msg: 18
The Zeitgeist Movement
Posted: 2/27/2011 9:04:21 AM
I can see very little in the Venus Project that equates to Communism. In any case for that to be a criticism you first have to establish that Communism is a bad thing - a point of view, not an axiom. If Communism means that everyone on the planet is truly free (for example subject only to common law and not statute - a whole area of research in itself!) and has access to the necessities of life without entering into servitude then bring it on.

Communism in practice means that citizens have no life and no identity other than as part of the state collective. It also means that the state has complete control over every aspect of everyones' life and everyone's loyalty to the state (and to the demagogue figure who heads the state) is absolute (often on pain of death).

In the system proposed by the Venus Project there would be no state control of peoples' lives whatsoever because there would be no state, at least not in the coventional sense. It would also mean people could pursue whatever vocation they want to and contribute to society in whatever way they choose rather than having to take a tedious job they hate just to pay the mortgage.

The Venus Project could not be put into practice overnight but it does offer a goal for a better social system that could be reached through a transitional phase after which money and even laws could become obsolete.

There is a great deal that could be adapted from TVP in terms of infrastructure managment - energy, transportation, sustainability, etc. Technology is creating widespread unemployment and no one is really coming up with solutions to the global problems we are faced with. As for the UN it has become nothing more than another vehicle for political hegemony, much like the WTO and the IMF.

One key issue the Zeitgeist Movment raises is cyclical consumption. Electrical goods for example are designed to become obsolete or break down relatively quickly so you have to buy new ones, otherwise the manufacturers would go out of business. Then there is all the useless stuff people buy and throw away a couple of months later. Electric cars are not in mainstream use because oil companies control alot of the technology patents. It is this more than anything else that is responsible for unsustainable resource consumption. Nothing (or at least far less) to do with overpopulation.

The way we are living now is unsustainable and if it continues then human race will probably destroy itself within 200 years. Take your pick.
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 19
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Posted: 2/27/2011 3:23:07 PM


I can see very little in the Venus Project that equates to Communism.


Have you read the website?

"One of the basic premises of The Venus Project is that we work towards having all of the Earth's resources as the common heritage of all the world's people. Anything less will simply result in a continuation of the same catalog of problems inherent in the present system."

"Simply stated, a resource-based economy utilizes existing resources rather than money and provides an equitable method of distributing these resources in the most efficient manner for the entire population."

This sounds a lot like private property being outlawed and the state redistributing wealth while centrally planning the economy. The Venus Project is actually pretty vague about how this wealth will be distributed and who decides what is equitable.



In any case for that to be a criticism you first have to establish that Communism is a bad thing - a point of view, not an axiom.


Communism requires the initiation of force against anyone who is not a communist. Otherwise the system falls apart.



If Communism means that everyone on the planet is truly free (for example subject only to common law and not statute - a whole area of research in itself!) and has access to the necessities of life without entering into servitude then bring it on.


No, that's not what communism means.



In the system proposed by the Venus Project there would be no state control of peoples' lives whatsoever because there would be no state, at least not in the coventional sense. It would also mean people could pursue whatever vocation they want to and contribute to society in whatever way they choose rather than having to take a tedious job they hate just to pay the mortgage.


A state is necessary to the redistribution of wealth, even if they don't want to call it a state. People, when left to their own devices, accumulate wealth. Even the homeless have their shopping carts loaded with their accumulated wealth. Who will till the soil knowing that anyone can just take the fruit of their labor and potentially be left starving?
 GlasgowIain2011
Joined: 2/13/2011
Msg: 20
The Zeitgeist Movement
Posted: 2/27/2011 4:52:43 PM

A state is necessary to the redistribution of wealth, even if they don't want to call it a state. People, when left to their own devices, accumulate wealth. Even the homeless have their shopping carts loaded with their accumulated wealth. Who will till the soil knowing that anyone can just take the fruit of their labor and potentially be left starving?


For TVP to work there would need to be a paradigm shift in culture and education.

To answer your question though, no one would till the soil because all production would be completely mechanised. Automatic computer controlled machines would till the soil. The website makes it clear there would be no need for manual labour because the society would be founded on the application of technology and the scientific method. With the elimination of money many bureacratic functions would also be rendered obsolete.

Resource management would be done by cybernated systems capabable of calculating the complex variables involved (e.g. soil mechanics, nutrient content, irrigation, weather patterns, etc). All kinds of decision making processes are already delegated to computer systems. Systems and application would adapt based on the demands of the population.

Wealth and property is really just a means of obtaining something and ensuring your continued use of it. In a resource base economy where eveyone has free access to what they need the modern concept of property would become meaningless. There would be no reason for anyone to steal something that everyone has free access to, it's not as if they'd be able to sell it.

As for having all of the Earth's resources as the common heritage of all the world's people - I find that a very difficult concept to argue with. At present the World's resources are for all intents and purposes the property of multinational corporations. Wherever those corporations are denied access to the resources they try to bribe the politicians who are denying them access. When that fails they lobby politicians in Washington DC and London to send in the military to seize control of them or by some other means have the governments overthrown (like Allende in Chile) and replaced with a puppet government. A great deal of property acquisition over the centuries has been through theft anyway - in particular the taking of land from native populations by European colonists. The present situation in Iraq for example is really no different from when India was controlled by the British Raj.
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 21
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Posted: 2/27/2011 10:37:25 PM

we work towards having all of the Earth's resources as the common heritage of all the world's people

What's there to work towards? The world's resources ARE the common heritage of all the world's people already.
 Paul K
Joined: 3/10/2006
Msg: 22
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Posted: 2/28/2011 12:34:22 PM
Hey Count

If there is one thing that is fast becoming transparent, that is that a very large percentage of those who just want: "all of the bad things gone, all hunger gone, no more mean trolls on the forums", etc, whether they know it or not, and for all humanity to end up equal. Now, how do you suppose that can happen? What possible systems of governance are there out there that posit that if their particular type of politics is instituted, AND, followed through, ALL will be happy, ALL will have equal amounts of everything, ALL will have their NEEDS met.............

Gee, what does that sound like? I keep pointing out that what is promised by this particular type of system is that NEEDS will be met, BUT, they never tell you HOW your needs will be met, or WHO will be in charge of meeting these needs, or, the best one, WHO determines WHAT an individuals NEEDS really are. If you were to look at things like the zeitgeist movement, and all utopianists, you will see that there is only one way to achieve as they so fervently believe in, and that is through an ALL POWERFUL state, that controls all..................

Guess what, that road has been walked, and it wasn't pretty. Right about now, those that believe this, are having a fit, first passing the joint or bong to the next person in their little circle, and saying, "Yeah, but those movements were headed up by the wrong people, all you need is the right people, and it would all be different"..........


Then there was reality.

Paul K
 JustDukky
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 23
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Posted: 2/28/2011 2:32:13 PM

The Zeitgeist Movement is not a political movement. It does not recognize nations, governments, races, religions, creeds or class.

How much more political can you get than declaring political boundaries and social arrangements null and void?

Care to explain how non-recognition of political bodies constitutes being political in and of itself? I'm curious.
 Paul K
Joined: 3/10/2006
Msg: 24
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Posted: 2/28/2011 2:48:18 PM
Hey dukky

The problem with "movies" such as zeitgeist is that most of what they really mean is NOT stated, which is true of all conspiracy theories. They may not recognize certain current established political parties, HOWEVER, if said parties were no longer around, what would take their place? They have already told you what they don't want, and intimated as to what they want, so what type of political "party" would fit their desires the closest?

Ponder that a while.

Have you found that video I referred you to, the one about Richard Proeneke? He is the guy who built a cabin in the woods of Alaska in the mid '60's, with nothing by hand tools. He was an amazing craftsman, the video is facinating to watch.

Paul K
 GlasgowIain2011
Joined: 2/13/2011
Msg: 25
The Zeitgeist Movement
Posted: 2/28/2011 2:59:40 PM

What possible systems of governance are there out there that posit that if their particular type of politics is instituted, AND, followed through, ALL will be happy, ALL will have equal amounts of everything, ALL will have their NEEDS met.............


The Venus Project suggests that decisions be arrived at through the scientific method rather than politics.

If a bridge needs to be built somewhere it doesn't involve a parliamentary debate on what the tensile strength of the steel needs to be. Civil engineers arrive at the decision based on what load it needs to bear and other relevant factors. They don't have a referendum on it, they rely on the immutable laws of physics and mathematics. Nor would there ever be a parliamentary debate or an opinion poll on the best conditions for growing a particular crop - this is something that can also be established by exact, measurable science.

Even modern delivery systems are based on supply and demand. Supermarkets don't stock perishable goods in significantly larger quantities than they expect to sell before they will spoil and they know they will need, for example, more turkeys around Christmas. Stock control is also a scientific process. In a resource based economy an automated distribution system would be able to provide whatever people want and when they want it. If there isn't enough orange juice supplied to a particular location because the local population have an above average taste for it then production and supply can be adjusted accordingly. It is really just an extension of the concept of markets being an accurate indicator of what people want with the "market research" (for want of a better term) being done in real time. We would probably find that we have more than enought to meet everyone's wants if we were to eliminate systemic waste and inefficiency and reach near 100% recycling capacity (which is achievable if goods are designed with recycling in mind from the outset).

Criminal justice is a prime example of what needs to change. At the moment there is a wrestling match going on between the liberal "they're victims of broken homes" view and the conservative "lock them up and throw away the key" or "make them do hard labour" camp. Politicians tend to try and pander to both but among them all there is very little if any understanding of the root causes of criminal behaviour - where there is it is generally deemed an inconvenient truth that can't really be tackled without accepting new paradigms. Criminal behaviour involves fairly complex cause and effect relationships but like anything they can be scientifically determined and affected. Something probably best left to criminologist and sociologists just as bridge building is best left to civil engineers.

The Venus Project doesn't offer perfect solutions to everything and there are many unanswered questions over how it could be arrived at and whether their exact vision could actually work. What they do offer though is a model of a sustainable infrastructure that could ensure the wellbeing of everyone on the planet.

Would it make everyone's life perfect or wonderfully happy? Absolutely not! There is more to a fulfilling life than just having a comfortable home, good food and health. However these are things that people need to create for themselves and in their own networks and by choosing their own life's purpose (as things stand very few people actually get to make that determination for themselves). As long as people wait for someone else or something external to provide them with happiness they'll be waiting a very long time. It certainly isn't going to come from politicians or from the illusion of democracy. Or even from the latest iPhone or a Mercedes for that matter!
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