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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?      Home login  
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 NothingLeftToBurn
Joined: 6/11/2007
Msg: 1
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What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?Page 1 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
What have we achieved as human beings that's worth all the pain and suffering we create in the world? Specifically all the pain and suffering we direct towards other sentient creatures, including other human beings.
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 2
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 4/30/2011 9:21:06 AM
BBQ sauce. Is there any dead animal that it doesn't go well with? Chicken, beef, and pork all work with BBQ sauce. It's a festival for the mouth. BBQ fish? Sounds kinda gross, actually, but I don't much care for fish to begin with.
 dbok635
Joined: 11/11/2009
Msg: 3
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What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 4/30/2011 9:33:28 AM
How about longevity to endure what you call misery.
I guess it's not fair but I have a great life.
 moonwalkerman
Joined: 2/19/2008
Msg: 4
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What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 4/30/2011 9:43:43 AM
I can see your point, and I was wondering the same thing lately. But if you look around, pretty much any living creature inflicts pain and suffering. Nature really is kind of cruel. I recently witnessed a heron eating a large fish, alive. I really could see the fear in the eyes of the fish, I was that close. How about lions hunting down a wildebeest ? Or crocs ramming their jaws into a zebra ? In that regard, we as humans are not the worst there is. In addition, if I look at all the things we create, I think we are a pretty awesome species. The only species that evolves and invents, at warp speed. Lions have been hunting the same way for thousands of year, birds have been building nests the exact same way for thousands of years, but humans, I mean come on, are amazing !
 _TALL_IQ2_
Joined: 2/10/2010
Msg: 5
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 4/30/2011 9:55:52 AM
Over 6.9 billion of us is quite an achievement..

The Library of Alexandria, for starters.. Oops, it was burned..

The Hubble telescope, its upgrades and eventual replacement.. Is it high enough for YOU?..
 Paddy_o_Lantern
Joined: 12/9/2009
Msg: 6
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 4/30/2011 10:07:00 AM
Yes the human race could be viewed as a cancer upon the earth but the good news it that the cancer may have it's own cure in one form or another.

Are we headed for a globalized Easter Island who knows. At the rate we are going and the inherant unwillingness of humans in general to give up any of thier "creature comforts" for the greater good ( especially when there is always some group convincing themselves that the doomsayers are just that ) I would not be surprised to see a collapse in our way of life and within the next 100 yrs.

If we do manage to anihilate one another fighting over ever dwindling resources the human race will look like a blip in the history of the planet.


Over 6.3 billion of us is quite an achievement


Actually I would say that is the biggest part of the problem going forward.
 Paddy_o_Lantern
Joined: 12/9/2009
Msg: 7
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 4/30/2011 10:10:50 AM
Yes the human race could be viewed as a cancer upon the earth but the good news it that the cancer may have it's own cure in one form or another.

Are we headed for a globalized Easter Island who knows. At the rate we are going and the inherant unwillingness of humans in general to give up any of thier "creature comforts" for the greater good ( especially when there is always some group convincing themselves that the doomsayers are just that ) I would not be surprised to see a collapse in our way of life and within the next 100 yrs.

If we do manage to anihilate one another fighting over ever dwindling resources the human race will look like a blip in the history of the planet.


Over 6.3 billion of us is quite an achievement


Actually I would say that is the biggest part of the problem going forward. The number of people on the planet has doubled in the last 40 yrs if we double again in the next 40 yrs will the planet be able to sustain these sorts of numbers it's hard for me to imagine... I'm just glad I won't be around to see what happens
 moonwalkerman
Joined: 2/19/2008
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What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 4/30/2011 10:16:25 AM
I guess there always were, are, and will be doomsday sayers. It will simply never happen, because humans are at their best when things are at their worst. A crisis brings out the best in us. Doomsday sayers are marked for extinction. Why would you want to believe in your own demise ? Only losers do that - winners, win !
 Paddy_o_Lantern
Joined: 12/9/2009
Msg: 9
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 4/30/2011 10:21:10 AM
Yes the human race could be viewed as a cancer upon the earth but the good news it that the cancer may have it's own cure in one form or another.

Are we headed for a globalized Easter Island who knows. At the rate we are going and the inherant unwillingness of humans in general to give up any of thier "creature comforts" for the greater good ( especially when there is always some group convincing themselves that the doomsayers are just that ) I would not be surprised to see a collapse in our way of life and within the next 100 yrs.

If we do manage to anihilate one another fighting over ever dwindling resources the human race will look like a blip in the history of the planet.



Over 6.3 billion of us is quite an achievement


Actually I would say that is the biggest part of the problem going forward. The number of people on the planet has doubled in the last 40 yrs if we double again in the next 40 yrs will the planet be able to sustain these sorts of numbers it's hard for me to imagine...

One of our biggest challenges going forward IMO will be to reach and maintain a sustainable coexistence with the planet and with each other. Unfortunately when political will is based on appeasing the populace and their immediate desires changes that require forward thinking are difficult to implement.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
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What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 4/30/2011 12:03:56 PM
Five bronze star points to the Count. javascript:smilie('')

The old "was it worth it?" question requires some work before you ask it. Specifically, how are you judging worth? What value are you placing on pain and suffering?
I'm not being facetious or coy with that question, that's exactly what yo have to talk about.
Example: to be able to do most physical things well, requires a lot of painful work, exercise, and practice. Most of us who do such things don't MIND all the work and practice at all, in fact we find it fun i it's own way, because it's getting us where we want to go.
Most of humanities pain and suffering, including what we've heaped on non-humans and on each other, is the same kind of stuff. If, in a fit of depression, you start trying to assign actual dollar values to each life torn apart, each child lost, each cute animal eaten and so forth, you still have ANOTHER huge task to do before working out the equation:
You have to set a value on what's been accomplished. How do you do that? Are you going to say that thus many babies born healthy are worth $xxx.xx, and that the cost was $yyy.yy worth of experimenting on non-humans (you can come up with an emotional medium of exchange if you prefer), but that if it was only $xx.xx worth of babies that it was a bad deal? That freeing the world of the Nazi's was worth 7 million lives, but that 7 million and ten would have been too much?

Until you take on that challenge, taking responsibility for assigning exact values to everything (and thus revealing the nature of your OWN sense of values), you really aren't ready to ask this question. Instead all you really need to say is: "I'm bummed. Let's all press the Big Red Button"; or, on the other side, say "Wow! that was a rough ride! Glad we got here though!"
 Paul K
Joined: 3/10/2006
Msg: 11
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What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 4/30/2011 12:48:57 PM
Hey Count

First of all, you have to know the difference between BBQ, and grilling. Grilling is acomplished by putting the meat directly over the flames, BBQ is techically in heat, but indirect heat, with smoke in the heat as well..........

As far as fish goes, try this..................... For enough fish for two, start with a stick of butter, melt it, add two tablespoons of Montreal Steak Seasoning, either two tablespoons of minced garlic or a cup of fine diced fresh green garlic, hot spice to taste, and half a cup of teriyaki........ put the fillets in this mixture, make sure they are covered with the solution, then put them in the fridge........... for at least an hour.

Get the grill hot, toss the fillets on the frill and turn the heat down. When the fillets turn white halfway up the side, turn them over; when the bottom side turns white so the white part meets the white part, you are done..... Fish cooks very fast. If it starts breaking apart, you cooked it too long......... I don't know anybody who doesn't just love this recipe..... Make it easy on yourself, and start with tilapia fillets, but fresh caught ocean fish fillets work best.

As the fillets are grilling, take the left over marinade, put it in a pan, heat it until the garlic caramelizes, add a couple of shots of cognac, flame it, then add about a half cup of heavy whipping cream, can cook over low heat until it is all homgenous, it should turn to a light brown color. That is your sauce for the rice you have been cooking......

The only misery and grief this will cause is that the neighbors will smell you cooking, and will come over.................... just a bit of advice always invite the downwind neighbors over.

Apologies for going offtrack, but the poor soul needed some guidance, and this is the weekend.

Paul K
 dbok635
Joined: 11/11/2009
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What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 4/30/2011 2:21:32 PM
Wow Paul
Your cooking skills sound good enough to compensate for your political perspectives.
 Paul K
Joined: 3/10/2006
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What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 4/30/2011 2:45:51 PM
Hey dbok

I am crushed.................


Now, what did you achieve with the misery you just created by attempting to put me down for my polititcal perspective?

Paul K
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 14
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 4/30/2011 2:52:12 PM
The misery WE create? Does the OP think that animals have lived happily in peace and harmony before we came along? No, there weren't lions happily skipping through green fields with gazelles before we came along. Animals constantly live with deprivation, predation and the threat of death long before we came along. Those who have the best tools for survival are the ones that do to carry on their lineage.
 dbok635
Joined: 11/11/2009
Msg: 15
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What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 4/30/2011 3:06:53 PM
P
I was braggin on the delicious sounding fish while adding a dash facetiousness.
What misery are you making by talking such a supper while being 1500 miles away and no offer to share?
No empathy for hungry hungry hillhippies. No catfish soup for YOU!!
 jackfouru
Joined: 9/10/2010
Msg: 16
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 4/30/2011 3:18:25 PM
Man is a scourge and pestilence upon the earth, a threat to all life on earth but the****oaches, and a threat to peace in the Universe. But we will all be eliminated soon enough. The reign of man will have hardly begun when it is all over. In the year 6565 . . if man is still alive???? Won't happen.
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 17
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 4/30/2011 3:25:47 PM


First of all, you have to know the difference between BBQ, and grilling. Grilling is acomplished by putting the meat directly over the flames, BBQ is techically in heat, but indirect heat, with smoke in the heat as well..........


Thanks for the info. I had no idea that they were distinct processes.



Apologies for going offtrack, but the poor soul needed some guidance, and this is the weekend.


In my defense I did say BBQ sauce.
 Paul K
Joined: 3/10/2006
Msg: 18
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What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 4/30/2011 4:09:33 PM
Hey dbok

Anytime you are in the area, just contact me and I would be happy to prepare it for you......................

Then we can raise a few cold ones and discuss what needs cussin' and discussin'.

Have a great WE, I am going to fire up the grill............. On the menu tonight is thin sliced fillet, on a skewer, marinated in green garlic, teriyaki, brown sugar and caramel flavored booze...............

Cognac and cigars to follow...............

Paul K
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
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What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 4/30/2011 4:28:11 PM
We are just here, we don't know why but we do learn as we go along, hopefully. We don't have to have a purpose, we are just part of the food chain. Lions create misery for their prey, that's how life is. At least we do have the ability to try to do more good than bad, but that doesn't mean we are here to accomplish that. I don't know that we are suppose to be achieving anything, but thankfully many try.
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 4/30/2011 10:14:41 PM
Sentient creatures + BBQ sauce.....tasty!
 NothingLeftToBurn
Joined: 6/11/2007
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What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 4/30/2011 10:44:24 PM
The misery WE create? Does the OP think that animals have lived happily in peace and harmony before we came along? No, there weren't lions happily skipping through green fields with gazelles before we came along. Animals constantly live with deprivation, predation and the threat of death long before we came along. Those who have the best tools for survival are the ones that do to carry on their lineage.


Very good. Thanks for fleshing that out for me. But... I don't see an argument that relates to the question. Evolution does its thing by imposing a bunch of desires that we have to satisfy, or else they well up inside, whether we like it or not. You always have to keep pushing the spokes on the hamster wheel. Where are you going to find justification in that? What's the achievement that makes it all worth while? What are you going to accomplish by satisfying your own arbitrary and silly desires? Hubble? That's the best contender?
 shakeitupbaby2012
Joined: 8/12/2010
Msg: 22
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 4/30/2011 10:51:56 PM
love

family

humanitarianism

balancing and surpassing the pain and suffering with the above

just a few late night thoughts~
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
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What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 5/1/2011 1:05:15 AM
What should we do, disappear?--maybe plan a Jonestown en masse, everyone on earth agreeing to drink some fatal potion at an appointed hour? How noble we could feel, knowing Gaia would at last be rid of us. But what complete fools we would be. All nature is violent and cruel, and it always has been. The notion that the earth was somehow kinder before man came, and will be kinder when he goes, is bleak, self-indulgent fiction.

We are the only thing, and only in the last minuscule fraction of the couple billion years of life on earth, that's ever offset the horrors nature serves up--by love, and by dedication, and by sacrifice. For all our indecencies, we've made the world more decent--a person's life is less likely than ever to be "nasty, short, and brutal." It's exactly *because* of our advances and achievements that a larger part of mankind now lives better, happier lives than even dreamers would have thought possible several centuries ago.
 nipoleon
Joined: 12/27/2005
Msg: 24
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What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 5/1/2011 3:28:01 AM
There are some people who think we humans are " God's own special creatures ".
That God created us especially to have dominion over the world and we can do anything we want with it because we own it.

You may not realize it, but you are taking exactly the same point of view. Rather than praising man you seek to condemn man.
But still, you think man is special and separate from the rest of the world.

It's so so tempting to think we are special and separate from the rest of creation. We have just enough self awareness to believe we are unique.

Hasn't anyone ever considered that maybe we aren't all that special ? Maybe we are just another creature doing what we are supposed to be doing.
We do not control the world, the world controls us.
We do not destroy nature, nature destroys us !

If anything, if we really are all that special then it's about time we started acting like it.
If we do have control over things, then why don't we start controlling something and start making this a decent place to live ?
 motown cowgirl
Joined: 6/30/2010
Msg: 25
What Human Achievement is Worth All the Misery We Create?
Posted: 5/1/2011 4:04:35 AM
Evolution does its thing by imposing a bunch of desires that we have to satisfy, or else they well up inside, whether we like it or not.

you're right. one would do well to not avoid one's compelling urges to eat, drink, sleep, poop, and pee. everything else is pretty much negotiable.


You always have to keep pushing the spokes on the hamster wheel. Where are you going to find justification in that?

the justification is in the "joy of finding things out", as richard feynman said. what did you expect, utopia?


What's the achievement that makes it all worth while?

define "worthwhile". this is a completely arbitrary statement.


What are you going to accomplish by satisfying your own arbitrary and silly desires? Hubble? That's the best contender?

wow, you're right. let's just all lay down and die.

"misery" is just a state. as long as people are free to think and create their own realities by experiencing the consequences of the choices they make, they will be free to occupy various states of misery and to set up the circumstances to justify that state. or not!
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