| | Sexualisation of ChildrenPage 1 of 2 (1, 2) | I have just seen an article in the news online about children, aged about 5-11, who's parents pay £5 an hour for them to go to pole dancing classes. Ostensibly it is all innocent fun and is just to keep them fit, but the question is whether introducing them to 'erotica' at an early age can be harmful.
I have also seen other stuff about beauty salons that give little children make overs, fake tans, fake nails etc. And at an even more extreme end of the scale I recently saw a woman who gave her 7 year old daughter botox injections.
Personally I think all that is shocking. It ranges (in my opinion) from shallow, irresponsible stupidity to outright child abuse. BUT... I don't actually have kids. I like to think that if I did they would have an innocent childhood, unsullied by the media's portrayal of young people, and they would not be concerned with body image and 'sexy' dancing. Am I just being naive though? What do you all think about children and what they are exposed to? Do you think Rhianna and her ilk are a bad influence on children? (I do). | |
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| Sexualisation of Children
Posted: 6/12/2011 1:00:18 PM |
I have just seen an article in the news online about children, aged about 5-11, who's parents pay £5 an hour for them to go to pole dancing classes. Ostensibly it is all innocent fun and is just to keep them fit, but the question is whether introducing them to 'erotica' at an early age can be harmful.
Having been weight-training for nearly 30 years, and recently tried pole-dancing whilst plastered in a local night-club (yay!!), I can heartily recommend such activity as a means of keeping not only fit, but as a means of building up muscle tone.
It was probably the least sexual thing I have done whilst holding something between my legs.....
Those who 'sexualise' such activities when done by children would probably get their jollies whilst seeing the same children out shopping with their parents. | |
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| Sexualisation of Children
Posted: 6/12/2011 2:28:01 PM | Totally agree OP - for some reason there seems to be a media led rush to sexualise children (moreover little girls). Its down to the parents to give our wee ones a grounded and sensible upbringing without succumbing to the outside pressures of spray tans, lingerie and sexually explicit TV videos.
Sure pole dancing may be "the latest fad" in keeping fit, but lets be honest about its origins. Mums and dads should be taking the kids down to the park for a kick around, a game of rounders or a fun session at the pool.
Let kids be kids and leave the fake tan and pole dancing to the adults! | |
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| Sexualisation of Children
Posted: 6/12/2011 2:53:01 PM | Pole dancing is without a doubt associated with strippers and titilation in clubs and IMO not for children.
What parent in their right mind would take their kids for pole-dancing lessons...I know, the ones that live out their own fantasies through their children.
This sort of thing, sexualising children, started years ago when mothers started treating their children as accessories, dressing them in heels, cropped tops,mini-skirts, bra-shaped bikinis, painting their nails, high-lighting and perming their hair etc etc
What happened to ballet and tap classes, riding bikes around the park, swimming and hula-hoop? | |
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| Sexualisation of Children
Posted: 6/12/2011 3:55:42 PM |
It ranges (in my opinion) from shallow, irresponsible stupidity to outright child abuse.
So, it's 'stupid ' and 'abusive' to encourage a child to take physical exercise?
I would say that preventing a child taking exercise is abusive and stupid.
This sort of thing, sexualising children, started years ago when mothers started treating their children as accessories, dressing them in heels, cropped tops,mini-skirts, bra-shaped bikinis, painting their nails, high-lighting and perming their hair etc etc
Actually, I agree with you on that.
Dressing girls like women sexualises them far more than taking them for exercise.
Sure pole dancing may be "the latest fad" in keeping fit, but lets be honest about its origins.
No different to climbing frames and rope-climbing. Being able to pull up the body-weight with either the legs or the arms is a great way of toning the body.
What parent in their right mind would take their kids for pole-dancing lessons...I know, the ones that live out their own fantasies through their children.
A bit like those parents who take their children horse-riding or soccer training in the hope they might make a career of it?
Or how about those who buy their kids a musical instrument?
Oh, were you talking about sexual fantasies? Well how many parents live out their sexual fantasies through their children?
What happened to ballet and tap classes, riding bikes around the park, swimming and hula-hoop?
Ballet classes?
Dancing around in dresses that leave nothing to the imagination AND which clearly show the 'knicker' section, especially in some of the moves?
Riding bicycles?
Doesn't that involve the knicker gusset rubbing against the genitals?
Swimming?
In tight wet costumes with no undergarments to hide 'the bits'?
Hula hoops?
Possibly the most suggestive action a woman can perform without involving sex directly.
You advocate all those for children? Well so do I! All exercise is good for our kids, and the fact is that a perve will take ANY action performed by a child and sexualise it for their own purposes.
Pole dancing is no different.....besides, who will be watching the classes? Will male parents be allowed to stuff fivers down their clothing? Does that happen at ballet classs?
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/05/21/pole-dance-classes-for-children-of-12-115875-23145027/
Here's one 'concerned' person:
"Furious resident Wilma Heveran, 46, blasted: “It’s diabolical. It’s sick.
“At that age, they should be playing rounders or netball. I work in a school and I see plenty of kids growing up too fast. It’s more important than ever to protect their innocence.” "
Well, Wilma, you think the kids 'should' be doing other activities - so what is your school doing to provide them? The kids at your school clearly aren't doing anything, because you think they 'should' be doing rounders or netball.
The fact is that too many slack parents are quite happy for their kids to finish school of an afternoon and spend five hours sitting at a computer whilst stuffing them with pizza ("not too much, cos it's not healthy"). I see nothing wrong in encouraging them to participate in any healthy pursuit. | |
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| Sexualisation of Children
Posted: 6/12/2011 4:28:46 PM |
Ballet classes?Dancing around in dresses that leave nothing to the imagination AND which clearly show the 'knicker' section, especially in some of the moves?
Disagree .. Show me anyone who goes and watches a Ballet performance at a theatre who goes for sexual gratification...
Riding bicycles?Doesn't that involve the knicker gusset rubbing against the genitals?
Does that also mean that a guys pants also rubs against his Genitals? and they are not competing in bike racing but doing so for sexual gratification?
Swimming?In tight wet costumes with no undergarments to hide 'the bits'? Swimming is healthy and I have five daughters who all swim very well and they would never of had when younger nor do they now ,have swimwear that " shows their bits"
Hula hoops?Possibly the most suggestive action a woman can perform without involving sex directly. This has to be the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard...
Pole dancing is for adults same as cage fighting is...
Lets keep our children as children until they are old enough to decide what they want to do... | |
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| Sexualisation of Children
Posted: 6/12/2011 6:24:57 PM | | the fashion industry has a lot to do with sexulising kids. Some of the clothes kids wear r not right. Skirts/trousers with stuff like sexy on the backside draws attention to that part of the body. Most ppl will look to see what it says. pole dancing is healthy but also sexy. so its not suitable for kids to do. But u cant blame the parents as kids will see other kids doing or wearing something unsuitable for their age nad pester the parents till they get it as well. Ive seen kids threaten to call child line and say there getting abused unless they get what they want. So parents usually give in cause they dont want to be arrested for something they didnt do cause social services always believe the child. Cause of the media and the so called do gooders kids r getting away with a lot more stuff cause the parents can no longer disapline their own kids without fear of being accused of abuse. The laws to protect kids is not working. Kids still get abused and parents r to scared to say no the their kids for fear of being accused of abuse. Its time to turn back the clock and treat kids the way they used to be when i was little. A spanking never did me any harm and it taught me not to do it again. But it should be in moderation and dependant on the age. the punishment were allowed to give these days does not work. Grounding? Whats the point. Most kids will still go out anyway even if they have to clinb out the window to get out like my niece used to do. Or grab a knife and threaten to stab mum like my friends daughter did. | |
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Pud78
| | Joined: 4/29/2010
Msg: 8 | |
| Sexualisation of Children
Posted: 6/12/2011 11:51:19 PM | How about salsa and ball room dancing for children? That would be socially acceptable but that is children getting rather close to each other and probably more sexual than pole dancing.
How does a child know what pole dancing is anyway? and what makes them want to do it?
There is nothing wrong with it if it is done right by the organisers and I would imagine that it is the children of the parents that have used it for keep fit that have asked for it, seeing the benefits and the fun away from the other side.
Pole dancing aside children are losing their childhoods and growing up way to fast and there isn't that innocence anymore and with the media streams we have now it is almost impossible to reverse and is likely to just get worse. | |
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| Sexualisation of Children
Posted: 6/13/2011 12:34:51 AM |
How many kids like to mimic and dance to their favourite idols like Lady Ga Ga which could also be considered suggestive by some yet is acceptable ?
Kids do this in all 'innocence' and it is the 'observer' who sees something else other than that innocence that i would be more concerned about !!
I recall old footage of Elvis where they filmed him from the waist up because of his 'sexual gyrating' and the devil they called 'Rock 'n' Roll !! .................The times they are a changin' !! | |
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| Sexualisation of Children
Posted: 6/13/2011 12:48:28 AM |
So, it's 'stupid ' and 'abusive' to encourage a child to take physical exercise?
I would say that preventing a child taking exercise is abusive and stupid.
Haha, absolutely not. If you genuinely agree with what you just wrote and aren't just playing Devil's advocate then by that logic you would also agree that children should be allowed to drink beer and eat McDonald's everyday as denying children food and drink is is abusive.
I didn't suggest denying children exercise, just denying them the opportunity of doing pole dancing. I would also speculate that it probably isn't the kids who originally suggest, "Mummy, can I go do pole dancing". It is more likely a parental idea. | |
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| Sexualisation of Children
Posted: 6/13/2011 3:12:36 AM | I think pole dancing is pushing things to the extreme; after all it is true that pole dancing is linked to strippers and topless dancers so therefore more an 'adult' activity.
Some friends of mine went pole dancing recently and not only were they giggling about that fact that they were doing it(seeing as it is seen as a bit of a sexual activity) but it is also hard work; and quite strenuous and i'm not sure children as young as five are ready for that strenuous activity on their young growing bodies;after all there are other activities that would be more suitable for them.
As for dressing little girls up to look like mini hookers..that's a no no for me; they are after all innocent children; and should look and be kept that way as much as possible; I bet some pervy nonces are having a field day! It actually quite sickens me that parents can and want to dress their little innocents that way in all honesty. | |
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| Sexualisation of Children
Posted: 6/13/2011 4:31:50 AM | | I find the whole idea of little girls pole dancing utterly shameful, we all know the sexual connotations associated with pole dancing and anyone who finds it anything other than shameful would never be allowed near any child in my care. | |
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| Sexualisation of Children
Posted: 6/13/2011 10:25:59 AM | MSG 6 You've entirely missed the point I was trying to make, which is that there is scope for anyone who is so inclined to derive some sort of gratification from the normal healthy activities listed in a previous post.
This has to be the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard...
I take it you've never seen a hula hoop used....the movement largely consists of the pelvic regions being thrust backwards and forwards:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdJgTx0iFeE
If you genuinely agree with what you just wrote and aren't just playing Devil's advocate then by that logic you would also agree that children should be allowed to drink beer and eat McDonald's everyday as denying children food and drink is is abusive.
Get back to me when you've looked up the meaning of 'logic'....
There are alternative foodstuffs to beer and burgers, but there is no alternative exercise to denying a child exercise.
I find the whole idea of little girls pole dancing utterly shameful, we all know the sexual connotations associated with pole dancing...
We also should know the benefits of doing such an exercise.
As long as the girls aren't performing for the benefit of any 'customers', I have no problem with it.
Show me anyone who goes and watches a Ballet performance at a theatre who goes for sexual gratification..
Are you kidding?
http://www.salon.com/urge/feature/1999/04/01feature.html | |
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| Sexualisation of Children
Posted: 6/13/2011 10:46:00 AM | I really believe some posters should accept that for once they are wrong!
Pole dancing is pretty much associated with strip joints, lap dancing joints and sexual gratification.
Sounds to me like someone is seriously trying to argue their way out of a box.
Ballet is NOT associated with sleezy sex, cycling is NOT associated with sleezy sex. A sexually inept person will always seek pleasure from something routine - one could argue that any activity could pleasure someone who was inept and perverse. However, to return to the point in question, pole dancing MOST DEFINITELY IS associated with sex (sleezy or otherwise). Posters may try to argue the contrary (thank goodness for Google and the internet lol to "limply" prove a point when clearly such nonsense is .. well NONSENSE lol .... | |
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| Sexualisation of Children
Posted: 6/13/2011 11:28:18 AM |
There are alternative foodstuffs to beer and burgers, but there is no alternative exercise to denying a child exercise.
Shall I show where you are getting mixed up? Beer and burgers are food stuffs, they are a means to an end. The end being nutrition/eating.
Pole dancing is a means to an end, the end, being exercise. You are showing clear understanding of the subject with regards to food/nutrition. Yes, you can replace the means that I supplied with a more appropriate one to achieve the end... Then you fail to do the same thing with the pole dancing/exercise example. Pole dancing is the means, not the end. Ergo it can be replaced with a more appropriate example. Do you see?
I can think of no realistic situation where pole dancing is the ONLY form of exercise open to a child.
there is scope for anyone who is so inclined to derive some sort of gratification from the normal healthy activities
This isn't a great point because in all the other cases it would take someone with a particular fetish to see sex where it was never intended. Pole dancing is overtly sexual. It was designed with that in mind. You are trying to compare the pants section of an Argos catalogue with a copy of Razzle and say they are both the same thing. | |
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| Sexualisation of Children
Posted: 6/13/2011 12:14:30 PM |
Pole dancing is pretty much associated with strip joints, lap dancing joints and sexual gratification.
I take it you are aware of what 'sexual gratification' is?
As far as I can tell, it refers to the satisfying of a sexual desire. Given that such activities are apparently frowned upon at lap-dancing/strip clubs, I fail to see how you can establish a link.
In fact, in my limited enquiries into the matter (I've just spoken to a mate who has been to a lap-dancing club) it seems that it can be anything but a 'gratifying' experiebnce having a half-naked woman gyrate in front of you.
Obviously, pole-dancing forms part of the act of some performers, but so does the application of baby oil and the wearing of high heels....
Ballet is NOT associated with sleezy sex, cycling is NOT associated with sleezy sex.
But it does not prevent people from deriving some kind of sexual thrill from it, a point you actually made when you argued against your own point:
A sexually inept person will always seek pleasure from something routine - one could argue that any activity could pleasure someone who was inept and perverse.
Oddly enough, I'd already made that point :
"a perve will take ANY action performed by a child and sexualise it for their own purposes."
So feel free to argue against yourself.
pole dancing MOST DEFINITELY IS associated with sex
So, are you now agreeing with your own statement:
A sexually inept person will always seek pleasure from something routine..
??
because not everyone draws that conclusion:
http://www.polesecrets.com/
I cannot see a single reference to 'sex' on their site, so that blows your theory out of the water.
But as you say:
one could argue that any activity could pleasure someone who was inept and perverse.
How about Cambridge University?
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jNVin7NeCHRArbeJRkTPdttX8QzQ
The health and fitness benefits of pole-dancing have long been known - why should they be denied to young adults just because some people 'get-off' on watching it in certain situations?
Posters may try to argue the contrary ..
Some posters even argue with themselves!
I really believe some posters should accept that for once they are wrong!
I agree!
I am with you all the way Blod.
Even with the contradictory bits?
Shall I show where you are getting mixed up?
Please do!
Beer and burgers are food stuffs, they are a means to an end. The end being nutrition/eating.
Pole dancing is a means to an end, the end, being exercise. You are showing clear understanding of the subject with regards to food/nutrition. Yes, you can replace the means that I supplied with a more appropriate one to achieve the end... Then you fail to do the same thing with the pole dancing/exercise example. Pole dancing is the means, not the end. Ergo it can be replaced with a more appropriate example. Do you see?
I see your confusion perfectly well, thanks.
You think that I had implied that there is only one form of exercise available to children. I have never implied such a thing. What I stated was:
"I would say that preventing a child taking exercise is abusive and stupid."
You chose to apply that statement in an analogy about food which couldn't possibly work.
This isn't a great point because in all the other cases it would take someone with a particular fetish to see sex where it was never intended.
Thank you for agreeing with my earlier point!
Pole-dancing wasn't intended to be sexually provocative;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pole_dance
Pole dancing is overtly sexual. It was designed with that in mind.
No, it wasn't, according to the above link.
It has been used by some to be thus, but anyone watching the antics of the drunken dancers on the pole at our local nightclub would view it as anything but sexy!
Look, some people will perve at anything. We hear of people being aroused by pavements, fgs. We hear of people (mainly female) being aroused at boxing/wrestling events. We hear of guys 'enjoying' beach volleyball. We are prevented from filming our kids at nativity plays for fear of some perves getting their jollies.
As long as children wishing to take pole-dancing classes are properly supervised, correctly attired, and not 'performing' for anyone's benefit, I see no reason why they should be denied that opportunity. | |
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| Sexualisation of Children
Posted: 6/13/2011 12:26:42 PM | But is it the 5/6/7 year old child going to the parent and asking 'ooo mummy, can I start pole-dance classes to keep fit please?' or is it the parent booking the classes and taking the oblivious child?
I would not have wanted to have seen any of my young daughters, or granddaughters ,doing any of the moves I've seen women dancers do on a pole. Pole-dancing is connected to the sex industry for the purpose of teasing men.
VVVVVVVVV....
And if you add the two words FOR CHILDREN onto the end of POLE DANCING EXERCISE you will note the concern others here are voicing.
And then google the same via the images button and note the outfits the girls are wearing.
Call me old fashioned but I don't agree with it. As someone points out in one of the links, " Stripping is good exercise too but ......."
Where do we draw the line? Some people will always say there's no harm in it....???
VVV But skipping wasn't ever meant to be sexually provocative was it...pole-dancing is. | |
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| Sexualisation of Children
Posted: 6/13/2011 12:29:51 PM | Posters may try to argue the contrary (thank goodness for Google and the internet lol to "limply" prove a point when clearly such nonsense is .. well NONSENSE lol
I agree, thank goodness for google ............search the words POLE DANCING EXERCISE and you will see a respectable side to this once seedy pastime.
Many Gyms and Dance halls up and down the country have seen the benefits of this exercise and now use them as do people in their own homes.
When i was a kid we used a rope to climb up and down in the school gym, pulling our own weight and building up muscle ............isn't this the same principle of exercise as the pole ?
I'm sure no one found me in the slightest bit provocative bouncing around on my space hopper in the 70's !!! Lol
And if you add the two words FOR CHILDREN onto the end of POLE DANCING EXERCISE you will note the concern others here are voicing.
The problem is that the 'observer' will always see what they want to see whether it be pole dancing or skipping !! | |
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| Sexualisation of Children
Posted: 6/13/2011 12:46:50 PM | Gawd ! so much google searching to prove a very much wrong point! Some posters know they are fighting their way from a paper bag but clearly spend many hours trawling the internet to contradict what the vast majority of us would agree to be correct.
Good for some, carry on Googling if it makes them feel happy and big. Good for some if you wish to encourage their grandchildren (should they have any) to dance provocatively around a pole, but I think I'll enourage mine to perform less sexually provocative activies.
Please feel free to do some more internet searching I look forward to such silliness with relish :) | |
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| Sexualisation of Children
Posted: 6/13/2011 12:52:49 PM |
MSG 6 You've entirely missed the point I was trying to make, which is that there is scope for anyone who is so inclined to derive some sort of gratification from the normal healthy activities listed in a previous post.
This has to be the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard...
I take it you've never seen a hula hoop used....the movement largely consists of the pelvic regions being thrust backwards and forwards:
I do not need to learn how to use a hula hoop ..
I never missed the point .. Men in their thousands do not pay money to see a child riding a bike or a child hula hooping,or a child swimming ... men in their thousands do pay to watch women dance suggestively up,down and around poles in clubs both legal and illegal all over the world.... | |
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| Sexualisation of Children
Posted: 6/13/2011 1:00:25 PM |
Please feel free to do some more internet searching I look forward to such silliness with relish :)
Please feel free to supply something worth contributing ..........like facts (as i have) ..........without them your debate falls down (google is your friend) !!
HTH
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| Sexualisation of Children
Posted: 6/13/2011 1:31:13 PM |
Gawd ! so much google searching to prove a very much wrong point! Some posters know they are fighting their way from a paper bag but clearly spend many hours trawling the internet to contradict what the vast majority of us would agree to be correct.
Good for some, carry on Googling if it makes them feel happy and big. Good for some if you wish to encourage their grandchildren (should they have any) to dance provocatively around a pole, but I think I'll enourage mine to perform less sexually provocative activies.
Please feel free to do some more internet searching I look forward to such silliness with relish :)
So, no answers to the points raised that destroyed your argument?
No response to the fact that you contradicted yourself?
I think I'll enourage mine to perform less sexually provocative activies.
It's only 'sexually provocative' to those who find such things 'sexually provocative'.
Even my mate who goes doesn't find it 'sexually provocative'.....
Men in their thousands do not pay money to see a child riding a bike or a child hula hooping,or a child swimming
I know....such activities are freely available in our parks and on our beaches - it doesn't stop those who are aroused by such activity from being aroused by that activity just because they aren't paying for it.
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| Sexualisation of Children
Posted: 6/13/2011 4:29:33 PM | I completely agrea with you zeegary. In fact I agrea so much, that when I have kids, i'm going to let them take up pole dancing. I might even let them start driving and give them alcohol anytime they want. Hell, why dont I just take themnight clubing cause what possible harm could it do them? | |
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