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Joined: 6/1/2005
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Reincarnation in the Bible
Posted: 7/22/2005 5:15:18 PM

Sometimes people claim that the Bible was edited to take out reincarnation

There are several Bible verses that strongly imply reincarnation.

Jeremiah 1:4-5 Suggests God knows everyone from a previous life.
Ecclisiastes 1:4-9 Implies the cyclic nature of existence.
Proverbs 8:22-31 implies the pre-existence of the soul.
Psalm 51:5 Makes no sense without a pre-existent soul.
Matthew 11:13-15 Jesus says John the Baptist is Elijah.
Matthew 17:11-13 Ditto.
Malachi 4:5 Promises that Elijah will return. Not someone like Elijah, but Elijah himself.
Matthew 16:13-14 Jesus was rumored to be John the Baptist, Elijah, or one of the prophets, which implies reincarnation.
John 3:3 Talks about being born again.
John 8:56-58 implies Jesus is the reincarnation of someone who knew Abraham.
John 9:1-3 Is the man's blindness part of his Karmic debt? Jesus says no, but doesn't rebuke the Apostles for their apparent reincarnation presupposition.
Galatians 6:7 Implies Karma.
Ephesians 1:4 Implies pre-existence of the soul.
Revelations 1:7 Implies reincarnation since the people who pierced Christ are long dead.

Josephus reports that the Pharisees believed in reincarnation. St. Paul was a Pharisee.

Origen was a disciple of Clement who was a disciple of Peter. He claimed that secret teachings were handed down him, including reincarnation.

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Joined: 6/2/2005
Msg: 2

Reincarnation in the Bible Posted: 7/22/2005 5:39:01 PM
What evryone cofuses here is that the is 1 a earthly death 2. A spiritual death to those who do do God's will really.

~Enchantress~

Joined: 7/12/2005
Msg: 3

Reincarnation in the Bible Posted: 7/22/2005 6:30:59 PM
If the Early Christians believed in re-incarnation, wouldn't that make about all the religions agreeing on re-incarnation? (Xsept islam)

Joined: 6/2/2005
Msg: 4

Reincarnation in the Bible Posted: 7/22/2005 6:33:33 PM
No one is beieving in reiencarnation well not in what the bible says for the Bible speaks of the living person then of the Spiritwithin. the eternal hereafter and the earthy domain.

~Enchantress~

Joined: 7/12/2005
Msg: 5

Reincarnation in the Bible Posted: 7/22/2005 6:35:10 PM
I believe in Re-incarnation, and I believe the Dead sea scrolls spoke of re-incarnation didnt they?

Joined: 6/2/2005
Msg: 6

Reincarnation in the Bible Posted: 7/22/2005 6:46:13 PM
Dead sea scrolls spoke of re-incarnation I do not know did they?

Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 7
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Reincarnation in the Bible Posted: 7/22/2005 7:29:53 PM
While researching this some sites mentioned reincarnation in the Gospel of Thomas. It's been a while since I read that so I can't vouche for the claims.

randyrescues

Joined: 7/17/2005
Msg: 8

Reincarnation in the Bible Posted: 7/22/2005 7:32:25 PM
Malachi 4:5 Says that I will send him before judgement day. How could he be reincarnated if he never did die? He was taken up in a chariot into heaven. God is the master creator, he has had his plan set before he created everything.

Joined: 6/2/2005
Msg: 9

Reincarnation in the Bible Posted: 7/22/2005 7:44:25 PM
Elijah a prophet will return 2Kgs 2.11 but prophezized alot prior to departing and also raised a dead boy back o life 1Kgs1-2Kgs. Note cross references matt 11.14, 17.10-13, Luke 1.17. Now not to confuse Jesus was Elijah...Matt 16.14, Luke 9.8 John 1.21 and se Mark 9.11-13.

Joined: 6/1/2005
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Reincarnation in the Bible Posted: 7/22/2005 7:49:16 PM
How could John the Baptist be Elijah then? We know that John was born in the normal way. Malachi promises that he'll return. Not someone like him but actually him. Jesus says that John was Elijah. So, it seems that Jesus was in error. So if Jesus wasn't in error it must mean that John was Elijah. But since John was born in the normal way this can only mean he was a reincarnation of Elijah. So what of Elijah ascending to Heaven without dying? Let me answer this with my own question. What would Elijah need with a body in Heaven? The Bible suggests that the human form will be destroyed in the presence of God (Moses gets a glimpse of God and is nearly killed in the process). When Elijah ascended to Heaven his body must have been destroyed in the presence of God. He would then be able to have his spirit enter the fetus of John the Baptist.

Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 11
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Reincarnation in the Bible Posted: 7/22/2005 7:50:52 PM
Enoch also ascended to Heaven without dying. He was also considered a very holy man. Maybe Elijah was a reincarnation of Enoch?

Joined: 6/2/2005
Msg: 12

Reincarnation in the Bible Posted: 7/22/2005 8:00:01 PM
What are you doing? Where is it written the John the Baptist another doubter was Elijah. Elijah returns cuz it is so written. Enoch returned as Elijah is it written?

JonathanUnruh

Joined: 7/20/2005
Msg: 13
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Reincarnation in the Bible Posted: 7/22/2005 9:25:47 PM
CountIbli what is your intention here? - to preach new age... why twist scripture, or use lies to get a point accross? If you actually read the bible... pick any translation other than the JW one (it's more fabrication than not - which is why no Christian scolars would accredit it.) ... I'd suggest an easier reading one like the NLT, but pick one that makes sense to you - and read it. Hey, you could even opt to just read the old testiment... the old and new testaments are consistant... But you didn't post this to preach Christianity... BTW, if you want to be taken seriously actually read the context in which your verses are written... better yet, how's about I type it out so you (and anyone else interested) can read it!? - these are all taken from a New Living Translation (NLT) bible. Verse #1 - Jeremiah 1:4-5 The lord gave me a message. He said, "I knew you before I formed you in your mother's womb. Before you were born I set you apart and appointed you as my spokesman to the world" ... ok where's this "Suggests God knows everyone from a previous life."? - Jerimiah is opening his book with his reasoning for writing... and you get previous life from this text??... God doesn't ONLY know the here and now... Verse #2 - Ecclisiastes 1:4-9 Generations come and go, but nothing really changes. The sun rises and sets and hurries around to rise again. The wind blows south and north, here and there, twisting back and forth, getting nowhere. The rivers run itno the sea, but the sea is never full. Then the water returns again to the rivers and flows again to the sea. Everything is so weary and tiresome! No matte how much we see, we are not content. History merely repeats itself. It has all been done before. Nothing under the sun is truly new. ... before I respond I want to also post some key verses you diliberaly took out of your example: Verse #3 - the beging of this body of text: What do people get from their hard work? Verses 10 & 11 - The end of this body of text: What can you point to that is new? How do you know it didn't already exist long ago? We don't remember what happened in those former times. And in future generation no on will know what we are doing now. You said; "Implies the cyclic nature of existence." - I see you twisting the truth here; and the fact that you quoted this does nothing but prove the sandy soil you are standing on to write this... obvoisly you don't know what the writer was doing around the time of this writing - or you wouldn't attempt to take it out of context. FYI: these are some of the words of king Solomon, and his words really ring true... Verse #4 - Proverbs 8:22-31: You wrote: "implies the pre-existence of the soul." Wow... I was going to type this one out, but it's just another misuse of text... If anyone here is going to read this text, I suggest you start at the begining of the chapter; the quote given is abot the pre-existance of wisdom; how wisdom existed before "the mountans and the hills were formed" (ch8, verse 25)... Come on... are all you examples this easily shot down? Verse #5 - Psalm 51:5 (You do realise the Psalms were poems intended as prayers (or songs) to God? King David wrote this during one times of anguish.) ...For I (King David) was born a sinner - yes, from the moment my mother conceved me. ... You said: "Makes no sense without a pre-existent soul." - actually it makes perfect sense... we are all born into sin. it's only the inoccence of youth that saves the young... Are you born a Christain, Athiest, or new-ager? No, rather you chose to be a Christain, Athiest, or new-ager... We are not born into salation, our faith washes away our sin, and brings us into salvation. Does that make sense?... it should, I tried my best to make it easily understandable... Verse #6 - Matthew 11:13-15: For before John came, all the teachings of the Scriptures looked forward to this present time. And if you are willing to accept what I say, he is Elijah, the one the porphets said would come. Anyone woh is willing to hear should listen and understand. " Jesus says John the Baptist is Elijah."... ok, please refer to Malachi 4:5; Look I am sending you a prophet Elijah before the great and dreadful day the Lord arrives. Verse #7 - Matthew 17:11-13 "Elijah is indeed coming first to set everything in order. But I tell you, he has already come, but he wasn't recognised, and he was badly mistreated. And soon the Son of Man will suffer at their hands." Then the disciples realised he had been speaking of John hte Baptist. "Jesus says John the Baptist is Elijah"... yup, you're right... Hey, I like you being right! Verse #8 - Malachi 4:5 You wrote: "Promises that Elijah will return. Not someone like Elijah, but Elijah himself." Hmm... ok, I'll re-quote it... Look I am sending you a prophet Elijah before the great and dreadful day the Lord arrives. I'm not getting anyting of the "return" of Elija that you stated... back to misinformation 'eh? Verse #9 - Matthew 16:13-14 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?" "Well," they replied, "some say John the Baptist, some say Elijah, and others say Jeremiah or one of the other prophets." You said that these verses stated that: "Jesus was rumored to be John the Baptist, Elijah, or one of the prophets, which implies reincarnation."... I am begining to think you didn't actually read the verses you are quoting... if so, are you enjoying reading them?... I like that you also take several verses from the same book, and mix them up in order to confuse someone... if that's not your intention, why not quote Matthew 17, after Matthew 16?... Verse #10 - John 3:3 -Unlike the norm, I'm going to quote some verses before your single verse, so that any reader might better understand the text... I will type in caps for the single verse you've given... After dark one evening, a Jewish religious leader named Nicodemus, a Pharisee, came to speak with Jesus. "Teacher," he said, "we all know that God has sent you to teach us. Your miraculous signs are proof enough that God is with you." JESUS REPLIED, "I ASSURE YOU, UNLESS YOU ARE BORN AGAIN, YOU CAN NEVER SEE THE KINGDOM OF GOD." "What do you mean?" exclaimed Nicodemus, "How can an old man go back into his mother's womb, and be born again?" Jesus replied, "The truth is, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of the water of the Spirit. Humans can reproduce only human life, but the Holy Spirit gives newlife from heaven. So don't be suprised at my statement that you must be born again. Just as you can hear the wind, but can't tell wher it comes from or where it is going, so you can't explain how people are born of the Spirit."... "...those who do what is right come to the light gladly, so that everyone can see that they are doing what God wants." I quoted John 3:1-8 & 21 You said: "(the verse) Talks about being born again."... you are right, being "born again" refers to the spiritual transformation one goes through when dedicating their life to God's purpose... Verse #11 - John 8:56-58 (Jesus speaking) "Your ancestor Abraham rejoiced as he lookedforward to my coming. He saw it and was glad." The people said, "You aren't even fifty years old. How can you say you've seen Abraham?" Jesus answered, "The truth is, I existed before Abraham was even born!" You stated: "(the verse) implies Jesus is the reincarnation of someone who knew Abraham."... Nope, no implication here; rather this is a verse that refers to HIS pre-existance to Abraham - this refers to the Holy Trinity, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit... since the three are one, and God pre-existed his creation... I'm sure I don't need to explain this one further... ;) Verse #12 - John 9:1-3 As Jesu was walking along, he saw a man who had been blind from birth. "Teacher," his disciples asked, "why was this man born blind? Was it a result of his own sins, or those of his parents?" "It was, not because of his sins or his parents sins," Jesus answered. "He was born blind so the power of God could be seen in him." You said; "Is the man's blindness part of his Karmic debt? Jesus says no, but doesn't rebuke the Apostles for their apparent reincarnation presupposition."... Wow... you took this one a strech... I like the "karma" term you used - it's a favorite with new agers!... What Jesus and his aposles are reffering to is a thing called generational sin. There was NO rebuking of a presupposition of reincarnation, simply because it wasn't there... I don't have a refrence handy to give a great explination of generational sin, nor do I know the verses that mentions it, but should you want this subject better explained, I will gladly do so at your request. Verse #13 - Galatians 6:7 (This is an exerpt from a letter the apostle Paul wrote to the Galatian's (hense the name), a Christian group who were dealing with comprimising their beliefs for their local laws...) Don't be misled. Remember you can't ignore God and get away with it. You will always reap what you sow. You said: "Implies Karma."... You like the term Karma, right? - even though your explination can be misleading, you are right. The idealogoy that you recieve what you deserve is a theme that is repeated throughout the bible... "do unto others as you'ld have done unto you"... part of a verse I learnt as a youth... Verse #14 - Ephesians 1:4 You stated that this verse: "Implies pre-existence of the soul."... Wow! - you're right!... this is an uncontested point... Verse #15 - Revelations 1:7 (the apostle John, speaking of Jesus) Look! He comes with the clouds of heaven. And everyone will see him - even those who peirced him. And all the nations of the earth will weep because of him. Yes! Amen! You said that this text: "Implies reincarnation since the people who pierced Christ are long dead."... Um, no it doesn't. Rather, it touches on the saved people who died before the apostle John. The bible speaks many times of life after death, but not a life on earth, rather a heavenly existence... please don't tell me you've never heard of this?? Heaven does not equal reincarnation in the sense that you are attempting to imply. I cannot repond to your last two notes, because I do not have a point of refrence... but I would surmise that the Pharisee's "belief in reincarnation" was that of a heavanly existance to which your last example verse touches on...

Flame of Isis

Joined: 10/25/2004
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Reincarnation in the Bible Posted: 7/22/2005 9:53:07 PM
CountIbli , I see reincarnation in the bible as well. But as most of these people who say that we only see what we want to in it, do the same thing. They don't want to see it because everything they have ever believed in will come crashing down on them. I KNOW there is reincarnation, because I remember. I also remember being incarnated on other planets. But they would rather call me nuts and quote out of their book as to go inside and remember for themselves. Children remember but who listens to them? They just have a vivid imagination.LOL. But then again the same people will say they are closest to God, but still not listen to anything they say.LOL Too busy making them think like they do. Because such things don't exsist.LOL

Joined: 6/23/2005
Msg: 15

Reincarnation in the Bible Posted: 7/22/2005 10:00:53 PM
They don't want to see it because everything they have ever believed in will come crashing down on them. Maybe that is what happened to you Flame..my beliefs have changed over the years, nothing came crashing down on me..I think it is a little arrogant for someone who is all KNOWing to lump people togther like potatoes.. You have to be looking real hard for re-incarnation in the bible..better look for the source in India and look at what that "phoney belief" has produced there..For one who claims to "see" its quite obvious to me you don't...LOL

HalftimeDad

Joined: 5/29/2005
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Reincarnation in the Bible Posted: 7/22/2005 10:40:53 PM
Quite a stretch to consider all the problems in India arise from a belief in reincarnation. Better minds than yours or mine have embraced it including Plato and Wordsworth. However given that there are now more people on the face of the earth than have died in all previous generations it seems a little unlikely to me.

Flame of Isis

Joined: 10/25/2004
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Reincarnation in the Bible Posted: 7/22/2005 11:14:27 PM
lotta, I don't have to lump people together like potatoes.. they do that themselves. And actualy, yes that did happen to me. I was tought to be a christen as a child. And as life progressed, it prooved it's self to be differant. You may have to look hard. But I don't. Read another book sometime and then maybe it won't be so hard for you either. It is not a belief for me. It is a KNOWING. Did you not read what I wrote? I REMEMBER. Now please....I would love to think the way you do, but first, can you make these memories go away? It seems to be a gift (if that is what you want to call it) that God has given me. The only thing I could do was learn how to understand it and not hide from people like you anymore who do not understand. And to this other person who wrote under you.......There is a reason for more people this time then any other, but unless you know what is going on, on the Earth right now, then you will not understand. And this is not the only earth there has been, and this is not the only planet we incarnate on. Blessings to all.

Joined: 6/23/2005
Msg: 18

Reincarnation in the Bible Posted: 7/22/2005 11:16:38 PM
Well, yes there is more to the religion in India than just re-incarnation..However, one aspect of the karma-re-incarnation issue seems to have produced stagantion and a lack of feeling for those born in the lower castes..Why help them? They are just living out the rewards/punishment of a previous extistence..Always amazed me how the Brahmin class are always reborn as the Brahmin class.. Problem I have with a previous existence is if you are not aware of it how are you going to change? or learn something from it..Its a bit like me kicking the dog today for $hitting on the carpet last week..the poor little sucker is gonna look at me with big baneful eyes wondering what the hell she has done..

13thPortal

Joined: 4/27/2005
Msg: 19

Reincarnation in the Bible Posted: 7/22/2005 11:20:59 PM
Well, I was raised with the bible...rather it was shoved down my throat page by page..lol, but I happen to interpret the "ye must be born again" as REINCARNATION. Everyone has thier own interpretation of scripture, and no one can tell another soul what is the correct one, unless God comes down here him/herself and clarifies it!!!!

Joined: 6/23/2005
Msg: 20

Reincarnation in the Bible Posted: 7/22/2005 11:23:56 PM
"unless God comes down here him/herself and clarifies it!!!" Well he has promised to do this according to the bible..be patient.. "rather it was shoved down my throat page by page." That is to bad really. fortunately I did'nt have that done to me..see my posts in the religious experience thread for a little of my background.. http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts1450914.aspx msg 2

13thPortal

Joined: 4/27/2005
Msg: 21

Reincarnation in the Bible Posted: 7/22/2005 11:50:13 PM
I tried viewing it Lotta, but got a page not displayed error.