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quoin
| | Joined: 5/22/2005
Msg: 2 | |
| | is Islam an Page 1 of 21 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21) | | logically, it can't be an evil religion...it would not have grown if it were.....It does have evil factions in it...These factions must be purged...and the purging MUST come from the adherents to the Muslim religion...if it comes from anywhere else, it will only be seen as oppression...and if seen as oppression, JIHAD. | |
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longte
| | Joined: 10/18/2004
Msg: 3 | |
| is Islam an
Posted: 7/23/2005 6:21:09 PM | For many centuries there was peace between Muslims and Christians
If the religion itself, taught Death to Infidels, as a common thing, this would not be the case
Yes, some aspects of the Koran can be interpreted, in ways we think, are more radical,
than parts of the Bible
But if you compare the basic Tenets of the Faith itself, it is very similar to Christianity
The two main things that turned Islam more radical are
The conditions in third world countries
The formation of the State of Israel
It will be easy to quote bits of the Koran that seem bloodthirsty etc
But it will be just as easy to find similar bits in the Bible
The religion is just that, a Religion
The suicide bombers have nothing to do with the True Beliefs of the religion
Most Islamic Clerics are against Jihad, against Suicide bombing
Same as Most Popes were against the Crusades
If Man kept out of using peoples beliefs, for his own ends, this would be a better place
... | |
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| is Islam an
Posted: 7/23/2005 6:53:32 PM | Let's see... for over five hundred years the Muslim nations were the friends and protectors of local Jewish communities. The French king Louis XIV used the Ottoman Empire as the model for his own nation. And my personal first experience with Muslims came in Bosnia. After 9/11 my unit went out to meet with a Bosnian Muslim (Bosniac) team clearing minefields. The first thing the team leader told us was how sorry he was about 9/11, and he offered to bring his team to our base to donate blood for New York.
Islam is not evil. Evil people occur in all religions. Hitler, Stalin, Torquemada (sp), Tamerlane, Pol Pot, Mao Ze-dong, Tojo, Carlos the Jackal, Timothy McVeigh... Evil is an individual condition.
Besides, we have many Muslim allies. Remember during the Mogadishu battle, it was Pakistani tanks and Malaysian APCs that went in to help bring out the Rangers. The Turks stood with us all through the Cold War. Persia was a vital link between the Allies and the USSR in WW2. | |
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| is Islam an
Posted: 7/23/2005 7:01:18 PM | | Holy Moly the servers lost it, this thread must have lost its parity check..flowing over into the religion forum...take the war back to current events boys.. | |
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| is Islam an
Posted: 7/23/2005 7:07:44 PM | Islam is not an Evil religion, and it is not filled with evil people.
The Wahabbi sect of Islam, which is only a small part of this religion does have an evil agenda, and there is no doubt that this sect and it's adherents must be ruthlessly fought against. They have a very frightening agenda based on a religious and cultural chauvenisim that borders on a Nazi ideology.
But it is not reflective of Islam as a whole. | |
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| is Islam an
Posted: 7/23/2005 7:08:26 PM | I am not fond of Islam for two rather large reasons:
1) After Mohammed established the religion, he advanced it by declaring war upon, and killing, anyone who refused to convert to his religion. Islam became a religion through violence, otherwise it would not have become a religion at all.
2) As part of the religion, Mohammed decided to keep polygamy, and, in fact, was polygamous himself. Polygamy denigrates females, just as polyandry would denigrate males.
@boyfriend lite: That's a scary picture!!!! | |
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longte
| | Joined: 10/18/2004
Msg: 8 | |
| is Islam an
Posted: 7/23/2005 7:09:09 PM | Possibly it belongs here
The discussion is about religion
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There are numerous threads here about Wicca, Atheism etc
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Religion covers many things
.... | |
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| is Islam an
Posted: 7/23/2005 7:14:27 PM | | You boys spend more time haggling about war, 9/11 conspiracy, London, Iraq etc..just wondered why you spilled over here..do as ya please... | |
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| is Islam an
Posted: 7/23/2005 7:33:16 PM | the only thing evil on this thread is ignorance and intolerance.
Rewrite the OP blub of Islam with Christianity, and it can still be applied to the same extremists. | |
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| is Islam an
Posted: 7/23/2005 7:38:35 PM | | I don't find the Islam religion to be tolerant or egalitarian towards women. | |
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late™
| | Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 12 | |
| is Islam an
Posted: 7/23/2005 8:47:09 PM |
just wondered why you spilled over here..
From posting guidelines:
If you post a thread subject that doesn't fit the forum subject criteria it will be deleted, or moved to an appropriate forum. | |
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Suther
| | Joined: 5/20/2005
Msg: 13 | |
| is Islam an
Posted: 7/23/2005 8:59:26 PM |
is this so-called peace loving religion one that really in fact teaches hate, violence, and murder? Does the muslim world really and truly wish to sieze control of the entire world and make it an Islamic state?
Same can be said about Christianity, as a matter of fact the RC has already tried.
I don't find the Islam religion to be tolerant or egalitarian towards women.
IMO its more cultural then religious. | |
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| is Islam an
Posted: 7/23/2005 9:23:17 PM | If Islam is ...
If Islam is Allah is the true God, then Jesus, a creation (according to Islam) has performed a greater act of love than Allah (according to the Bible). A mere man has outdone Allah in love and sacrifice. But, of course, Islam denies that Jesus ever died. They then say that Jesus has not done the greatest act of love. Their denial does not change the fact that Jesus died on the cross as is amply attested to by the eyewitnesses who wrote the gospel. Besides, whether or not the Muslim believes Jesus died on the cross does not change the fact that Jesus told us what the greatest act of love was -- and Allah has not done it. Yet, according to Christianity He has. Since Muslims want Christians to adopt Islam, they are asking us Christian to give up our Lord who has performed the greatest act of love on our behalf. Why would we want to do that?
If Christianity is true, then God has performed the greatest act of love. If Islam is true, then God hasn't. Which "god," then is more loving, the one who speaks of love, or the one who acts out love?
I have found no where in the Qur'an where it says that Allah is love. The Qur'an says that Allah loves people, but it never says that Allah is love. By contrast, the Bible clearly tells us that God is love. "And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him," (1 John 4:16).
Who does God love?
Does God love all? In Islam, the answer is no. In Christianity, the answer is yes. Consider the following verses from the Qur'an.
* "Whoever is an enemy to Allah and His angels and messengers, to Gabriel and Michael,- Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith," (2:98, Trans. Yusuf Ali)
* "Say: Obey Allah and the Messenger; but if they turn back, then surely Allah does not love the unbelievers," 3:32, Trans. Shakir).
Consider the following verses from the Bible
* "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life," (John 3:16).
* "You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor, and hate your enemy.’ 44 "But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you 45 in order that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 "For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax-gatherers do the same? 47 "And if you greet your brothers only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 "Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. (Matt. 5:43-48).
We can easily see the huge difference between the God of Islam and the God of the Bible. In Islam, God does not love all people. In the Bible, God does love all people. In Islam, Allah did not die for the sins of those who were not his. In the Bible, God did do that. In Islam, Allah has not performed the greatest act of love. In the Bible, God did exactly that.
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| is Islam an
Posted: 7/23/2005 9:25:09 PM | | Dei check mail.. | |
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| is Islam an
Posted: 7/23/2005 9:47:32 PM | good post by DEI
i personally don't feel that islam is by itself an evil religion but alot of its tenets can foster the growth of extremist factions.......this is because the leaders of these factions take their scriptures out of context and try to apply it to fuel their own agenda, and as long as there are enuff dis-enfranchised pple, their goal can be accomplished.......the quran was written in the 6th or 7th century in arabia (if i'm not mistaken) and is very laden with cultural inclinations pervasive in that region of that epoc.....of course it is up to the believer as to whether or not what is written in it is the word of god........but the big challenge that the mainstream muslim clergy has is to show the world that the militant factions don't define islamic idealogy. | |
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| is Islam an
Posted: 7/23/2005 9:59:41 PM | Well, for once, I agree with Dei...LOL.
I believe that ISLAM IS Evil. It preaches the slaughter of christians (kill the infidels), it reveres women as lowly creatures not worthy of anything, and its entire theological book is based on kill by the sword. Islam is dangerous and needs to be snuffed out along with those who follow it. We're already seeing the results..terrorism.
To base a faith on the 70 virgins in heaven idea after death, is just plain stupidity and ignorance to me. | |
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| is Islam an
Posted: 7/23/2005 10:08:25 PM | One of the problems I see in Islam( and lets be clear, this is not about evilness) is that it never experienced a Reformation like Christianity did.
The Protestant movement effectively pulled Christianity out of the medieval mindset that it had, and put it on a new and more enlightened path. Catholicisim fought this, but even the Catholic church eventually absorbed reforming trends.
One of the monumental things that happened in this Reformation was the application of seperation of church and state, where it was decided finally that the Kings were not ruled by the Pope, and the bloodshead and civil wars settled the issue of who controled the nations. On a practical level the Treaty of Wesphalia continues to serve as a blueprint on international relations to this day. This also put another nail in the whole Divine Right of Kings theory, and the Holy Roman Empire was completely destroyed in all but name.
The Muslim world never experienced this seperation of secular and religious authority until the twentieth century, and then only in some areas, like Kemal Ataturks Turkey. Much of the Islamic world is mired in a medieval mindset where secular and religious law and authority are blurred. The Wahabbiists all want to restore a "Holy Muslim Empire" or Caliphate that will rule from Turkey to Pakistan in a perfect Islamic state ruled by Sharia Law. To give you an equivalent, that would be like a group of Christian fundamentalists who want to make a single European state ruled by the Catholic Church. | |
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| is Islam an
Posted: 7/23/2005 10:12:37 PM |
which is only a small part of this religion does have an evil agenda
whabbism is a movement started by a guy named whabbi
please show me some evidence that you could compare his teachings to hitlers???
this sounds like propaganda to me....source please... | |
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| is Islam an
Posted: 7/23/2005 10:17:42 PM | Muhammad never killed anyone who refused to convert to Islam
this is complete bull shit, listen my freiend, if your gonna make a controversial statement like that at least use some source to back up such an accusation.
Muhammad fought a war against oppression, not to spread Islam.
FACT: The Muslim armies numbered in the thousands and could have conquered the Meccans who had been defenseless at mostly in retreat. Muhammad, once expelled from Mecca, had it at his mercy, and commanded his army to reclaim the city for the Muslims.
He could have slaughetered every pagan in the city, yet when the Muslims came home, they didnt spill ONE DROP of blood. They came back, took their homes back, and took back the holy shrine. They allowed the Pagans to live under their secuirty, and paying a tax, like the muslims paid.
please show me ONE documented event where he forced someone to convert!
[Any Thread that has More Than (2) Two consecutive Messages by Only (1) One single Individual within a 24 hour Period, will have their excess posted messages deleted unless they are corrective Edit-Action posts. (This is also known as "Sequential Replies", or posting (2) Two Replies in a Row. Please allow Others to Reply before you post again.)
/late™] | |
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| is Islam an
Posted: 7/23/2005 10:23:56 PM | I believe this thread was started by non-religionists just to produce the above resulting posts and conflict..its a troll and I suggest it be left to die
a bait thread in my opinion.. | |
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| is Islam an
Posted: 7/23/2005 10:24:51 PM | Specifically I am comparing the manufacturing of a transnational identity loosely based around a religious idea, and wanting to turn it into a state.
A cornerstone of the Nazi movement was the "Aryan" concept, or "Volkisim" where the special people known as the Aryans, or the Volk were destined to shed national identities and come togeather under in a giant racially pure state( The Third Reich). No Jews in this new homeland
Likewise, a cornerstone of the Wahabbi Islam/Islamofascist viewpoint is the goal of creating a state where the special people "The Umma" will discard national identities and live togeather in a theocracy ruled by Sharia law( The Caliphate). No Jews in this new homeland.
Source? Well the Nazi thing is pretty much on record, but the Wahabbi viewpoint here comes directly from the famous 1997 Osama bin Laden interview, and his equally famous declaration of war against the US. | |
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| is Islam an
Posted: 7/23/2005 10:27:47 PM |
but the Wahabbi viewpoint here comes directly from the famous 1997 Osama bin Laden interview
so osama bin laden, a KNOWN CIA OPERATIVE, represents the teachings of a man named Whabbi who lived how many years ago? whabbism is much older than OBL | |
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late™
| | Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 24 | |
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| is Islam an
Posted: 7/23/2005 10:30:49 PM | OBL is in fact a prominent Wahabbi figure, surely you knew that? He certainly self identifies.
But I will concede that some Wahabbiists have attempted to distance themselves from OBL and claim he is a Qutbee(this is based on his opposition to the house of Saud). I tend to disagree with that, but I am hardly able to interpret the internescine feuds of a bizarre Islamic sect. | |
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| is Islam an
Posted: 7/23/2005 10:54:26 PM | what the quran says about non muslims
60.7: It may be that Allah will grant love (and friendship) between you and those whom ye (now) hold as enemies. For Allah has power (over all things); And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
60.8: Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.
2.62: Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve. | |
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