| Why Indians are scared to love?
Posted: 11/5/2004 7:40:48 AM | Hi there people.
This is my first posting.
Whenever Westerns think of india, most of them inevitably end up picturizing land of tropical forest, snake-charmers, tigers and elephants. That was so 5 decades back, i guess.
India is fast getting westernised. However, one thing that most of you may not be aware of is the fact that despite westernization, 95% of marriages in India is arranged, not love. Most marriages are done within the premises of religion and caste.
Indians live by customs and not by reasoning. Havin inter-caste marriage or inter-religious marriages is a taboo here.
How successful are the married life? Going by records, India has on of the least divorce cases in the world, but within the family circle, marriages survives purely by scarifices made by either man or the woman in the family(mind you, its usually women). Women, despite abuses by their hubbies, are scared of divorce, because of the narrow mindedness of the society and isolation that divorced women are subjected to.
Are the indian men 'mama's boys'? yes, they are, out of helplesness. Boys in family are given good education and sweetly pampered and then emotionally blackmailed to obey their parents even when they are matured enough to take their own decisions. General blackmail goes on this way "marry any other girl, then your father and me are going to commit suicide" or "forget us if you cant do what we want you to do".
Why so in this ancient land?
Ancient is what indians reasoning is. The true causes are hard to be defined, answer could lie in the caste structure followed rigidly since pre-buddha times. The other reason could be the dowry system that is still pre-dominant in entire of India.
Can reasoning and true love defeat customs? | |
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| Why Indians are scared to love?
Posted: 11/5/2004 8:07:43 AM | Hi, Its nice to here a perpective from another culture.
Here is my opinion. Take it for what it is though as I have never lived in your culture.
True love can defeat customs but with a great deal of pain along the road. Someone I know married a woman from another culture. Her family disowned her for marrying a white man and they didn't speak for several years. When children were born they decided that they wanted to know their grandchildren so are now speaking. It was a very painful experience for everyone. The question you have to answer is whether your love is worth loosing your family for. Your family may eventually come around to see your point of view but there is no guarantee of that. Only you can make that choice.
I have a comment on arranged marriages too. I know 2 Indian couples that both had arranged marriages. Both seem to be doing ok. One couple in particular is very happy, their families chose wisely for them. There are good and bad things in both approaches. We don't always choose wisely for ourselves as can be seen by the divorce rates in western countries. On the other hand I agree with you that at least here we can get out of unhappy marriages.
BTW. Not all westerners think of the India of 5 decades ago (though I'm sure some do). You have a very strong education system in some parts of the country. I have been to school with and worked with many highly educated Indian people, both men and women.
Best wishes in choosing a path that brings you happiness! | |
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| Why Indians are scared to love?
Posted: 11/7/2004 10:25:34 PM | | I wish I knew the answer to that. I dated a muslim girl for two years and loved her very much, but the parents would not have it. I realize she was not ready for marriage but I just felt like she would not stand up for herself or me. Not being able to hold hands when other muslims were around, introducing me as friend to some of her relatives. I just felt like a f**k toy. | |
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| to gaurav9
Posted: 11/8/2004 6:02:47 AM | i think you are in a very precarious situation. customs can be very hard to change. i think it may take longer than you'd like, but i would hold to what ever it is you truly believe you should do FOR YOUR REASONS - NOT RELIGION, FAMILY or anything.
just like with women's suffrage and the anti-slavery movement, things don't happen over night. the more people within your cultural background that continue to hold to a new standard or no standard, and with the passing of each generation after that in which this is practiced, the more likely it is that your cultural background will be quite different from what you currently appreciate. it may not happen in your lifetime, but you will be part of the torchbearing process.. if you want to be. | |
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| to gaurav9
Posted: 11/9/2004 5:07:38 AM | hi again,
Its true change will take place eventually. However, the process of change had begin nearly a century back. People defied the customs to do what they thought was right.
Today most of the celibrity marriages in India are either inter-caste or inter-religious. That also proves that money and power can be license to defy long held rules. Still there are few, who without either factors have sustained love marriage. Its this population that will be torch-bearers, for the changes to take place.
Today's generation in India is still affected by generation gap held between them and their parents. It works out if the generation today remember the dilemma when they become the parents. Change will take place..... Like Jim morrison says " The old will get older and the young will get stronger, they got the guns but we got the numbers". | |
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| to gaurav9
Posted: 11/9/2004 6:21:53 AM | | Thanks for the insight, gaurav9 | |
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| Why Indians are scared to love?
Posted: 2/16/2005 8:11:38 PM | hmmm what is ur point here guaray, would u want a wife who is afraid of u to stay with u, i dont understand your point here at all, i do understand the part of the male figure being so spoiled, my b/f is hindu, and he is so spoiled its starting to break us up, he lives with his mom and sister, younger sister at that, and SHE bosses him around, she yells he jumps, and he is in university, doesnt work, says no need to, and he says his education is more important than mine, and he always has to ask his mom or sister for everything, its quite embarrassing, for me not him, as he says, oh well i live here and im going to school, wow, he is younger than me, hehe he is 25, im 41, but we've been together for 2 years now, i only wished he would work, he thinks i should make more money, hmmm i wonder why, so i can pay for his toys, anyways, im still interested in ur point on this subject, what were u getting at.
thanks
meowmix | |
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| Why Indians are scared to love?
Posted: 2/17/2005 1:50:49 AM | Qoute:How successful are the married life? Going by records, India has on of the least divorce cases in the world, but within the family circle, marriages survives purely by scarifices made by either man or the woman in the family.....
Now correct me if im wrong isnt that the way it should be? although marriages are arranged...your family would have your best interest at heart?....I'd have to say if i had the chance i might have an arranged marriage...(My own personal opp)
~Aaron~ | |
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| Why Indians are scared to love?
Posted: 2/17/2005 4:41:14 AM | um nice guy where do u get the idea he is submissive, he is not, spend money on him, lol his lazy pretenious azzz. lol no ill leave that for u, u can spend money on him if u choose. lol  | |
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| Why Indians are scared to love?
Posted: 3/3/2005 6:34:51 AM | hi meowmix
i thnk u misundrstd my msg on the board... its basiclly about guys who have to choose b/w their gf and their family( which always stood by them for every other reasons)....the dilemma is difficult "cause u find hard to ignore either one of them...
..but yes they do the first mistake by takin a grl for a trip when they know that they can't have a long term relationship... but its so tempting for these indian guys to gf 'cause they wont be marryin till they turn to a age of 25-27(average)..but being sexually mature long before that, they go for grls, whom they can't marry, the reason of course is the pleasure... techically even a pros can give that(lol)
my suggestion to western babes: donno ever trust an indian guy for long term, unless u r sure of it...they otherwise make a good husband... | |
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Asoka
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Joined: 7/15/2004
Msg: 14 | |
| Why Indians are scared to love?
Posted: 4/6/2005 1:39:03 AM | Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only reason as far as I know about arranged marriages having less divorces is usually because even when the marriage isn't working Indian women are afraid of leaving their husbands and when men do leave their wives,it's the woman that's blamed for it and put on a black list.When this happens often the family wants nothing to do with their daughter or daughter inlaw because they feel ashamed.It's not only India that's like that though many middle eastern countries are like that,in Iran,it's always the women's fault not the man.I know it's wrong but it's true,that's the way many cultures are.
Also in the Indian culture when parents tell you to marry you have no choice but to otherwise you put the parents to shame and make yourself look bad in your own culture,stupid but true.If I don't want to get married ,I'm not going to and no one can make me but in Indian culture it's not like that.
I agree that 95% of marriages in India are arranged marriages and part of it has to do with religion but I disagree it has to do with caste system because of what I know it's only the Hindus that follow the caste system,and they make up only a small percentage of people in India all though there is more of them then the Seikhs.
Keep in mind I'm not from India but I have friends from India and some that are Persian (from Iran).I know one guy who was born here in BC. but still followed what his parents would do just because he is Hindu.His parents wanted him to marry someone in India,he told me he didn't want to and being Canadian myself I tried to tell him if he isn't ready to don't but he would **** about how he has no choice and can't refuse what his parents say.I would tell him he's in his 30s he can do what he wants but that never helped one bit and he would talk about how in his religion and culture it's considered rude and disrespectfu to say no to his parents ,so I would try and tell him it's disrespectful for his parents not to respect his decision not to get married besides he's not in India he's in Canada.So him being Hindu he went to India like his parents made him and married some Indian girl anyways,after 6 months of her coming to Vancouver he finally decided I and another friend was right and finally divorced her,now her parents refuse to have anything to do with her and she has been put on a black list,is this fair ? Of course not ,especially since he treated her like crap,but that's part of the Hindu religion.In that culture women have no rights.
Now a persian friend has told me similar story about women who get divorced and how they're also put on a black list.I have also heard on news that in Iran many women hide from their husbands and some even try to get arrested because they are so afraid of their husbands who treat them badly.If the woman leaves she can be put to shame and on a black list but she can also sometimes be killed by the husband.What happens to the husband? Absolutely nothing,because being a man he has every right to do what he wants with his wife and the woman has no rights.
Don't get me wrong,I'm not trying to thrash any culture,I'm just saying what I know and have heard about both the Hindu and Muslim cultures.
Please correct me if I'm wrong as I'm not trying to sound racist. | |
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| Why Indians are scared to love?
Posted: 4/6/2005 3:57:49 AM | i agree totally that indians are scared to love. but which love, many also fear to fall in love in the fear to lose the love of their parents. a persons greatest fear is for the people he loves the most. the fear is to hurt the ppl who are the reason for his existance.
but that doesnt stop anyone frm falling in love. infact its like a forbidden fruit, all the more tempting
love can pass any test of time and break any rules. not matter how much u fear it or try to avoid it it does sneak into ur life someway or the other. love makes the most meekest of us all the bravest. history has the proof that nuthing has ever been able to stop love not even the fear of death. | |
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| Why Indians are scared to love?
Posted: 4/6/2005 5:47:08 AM | | back in the 16-18th century they had alot of arranged Marriages int he 16th century the king of france would pay the regiment men to marry the girls who are orphanned or at the age of marriages (they are known as les filles du roi aka the kings daughters) alot of us are decendants of them in the 17th to the 18th century some fathers would trade their daughters for land or money then they had about 15-20 kids abuse and rape happened all the time some of the men would cheat on their wives but the wives are suppose to be silent about that. some of the husband or wives would have the marriage annuled on their choises but those are rare cases and get remarried i seen someone gotten married 6 times in 10 years and 9 of those were annuled most of the marriages lasted cause they had no choice | |
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| Why Indians are scared to love?
Posted: 4/8/2005 1:29:11 AM | @ashoka.....
the info u have on women treatment in the indian society is true...they are mistreated, however its has come down drastically than what it was 5 decades back...esp in cities and upper class and middle class families....
yes, it happens in middle eastern countries too...but good thing abt india is that it is way more liberal than middle east and its improvin fast...the people who have intercaste or interreligious marriage are pioneers in breakin the irrational tradition of arranged marriage, and in long run their children will also have similar marriage since mixed caste/religion of their parents means they don't have a particular culture to dedicate themselves to...
Its these changin time that have created a debate on this issue esp among youngsters, who are confused on their future action.
but u r wrong on the caste side..hindus make up 70% of indian population... and intercaste marriage is a taboo, esp in rural india...even muslims(20%) have castes like sunnis and shias(no detailed idea on that), christians and sikhs make up rest 10%. but indian population is next to china in numbers about 1.2 billion(1/6th of the world population), so even 10% means a lot when compared to western countries.
and Ashoka u r comments are no way humilating any religion or culture, its jus identifyin on the things that ought to change with time.... | |
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| Why Indians are scared to love?
Posted: 4/8/2005 1:36:35 AM | | i agree with that looney... most men in such dilemma wud hav to choose between two things they love the most...i guess it depends on which is stronger.. | |
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| Why Indians are scared to love?
Posted: 4/8/2005 11:56:23 PM | | Boy, I'm glad I'm American. No offence, but I do NOT want to be a middle eastern woman. I dunno what to make of relationships over there, but you know, people and cultures naturally evolve. 10 years ago here, it wasn't okay to be gay, and you only heard about interracial relationships on Jerry Springer. I guess if you find a love then you should hang onto it. Some people never find it. And I guess you just hang onto the fact that in time people change their views about things, and you won't be considered such an outcast. Unless you're an ultra religious whack job. But that's different. | |
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| Why Indians are scared to love?
Posted: 6/29/2005 12:58:55 AM | hi gaurav, how u doin ? I agree with ur point and what "indicalover" has to say. I've been witnessing such situations, watching such absurd people n living in this society thinking how would I ever contribute something towards changing this....
but... like OSHO says, we need to understand where we coming from. History I mean, what has happened n whaz been implemented. true, it an evalution.
I just have one point to make here... agree with me or not. I've experianced the truth.
'Stand for what you think is Right' .. yes, therez pain n there will be. thaz the very law of nature my friend. like jesus stood for what he believed n there were people who thought he was wrong. I've stood for what I believed in. We Indians need to be educated(not those degrees) be a lil open-minded.
problem is Most of us don't have the GUTS to "think".... rather, we don't want to break that comfort zone n try to look at things with a new dimension.
SO What if parents/society/world/culture threatens you..??? jesus, vivekananda, micheal jackson, abraham lincoln, Osho, rajiv gandhi n all the people who stood for their vision were threatened. (we aren't discussing whether they're wrong or right).
They'll feel the pain, but thaz when we change n learn. and think about that pain we often talk about. you're not the one whoz causing the pain friend. its our belief n the comfort zone we don't want to break.
Like I said, its the very law of nature. A river makes its way by washing away what it has to. that is obviously pain but then thaz the way it is.
cheers,
niraj.
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| Why Indians are scared to love?
Posted: 7/9/2005 12:23:47 AM | | on the point of arranged marriages... the reason divorce rates are so low is due to those involved in such marriages being predisposed to the idea of not divorcing regardless of the marital issues. divorce is not an acceptable option in their minds. whether they are happier or than most married couples not is another issue. although it's much more common in rural india, among the uneducated, many educated people, even outside of south east asia still CHOOSE arranged marriages. i personally never would, but many willingly do. | |
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| Why Indians are scared to love?
Posted: 7/9/2005 12:32:57 AM | yeaaaahhh I guess the idea of being stoned to death and/or set on fire by your family could be a real deterrant to divorce.
Dee, why haven't you weighed in on this. You were all "het" up about the imaginary 70ยข cents on the $ thing. Where are you when a REAL problem is brought up?
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| Why Indians are scared to love?
Posted: 7/9/2005 1:01:47 AM | Be careful what you wish for, I understand this subject very well and I don't think you're telling the whole story. Maybe in some village cultures in india the traditional arranged marriages are still happening but for the most part it seems that family members now a days just introduce the two "candidates." Its up to the man and woman to decide if they want to get to know eachother and perhaps eventually get married. I don't know many Indians who are forced into marrying now a days. In North America get married for "love" but the divorce rate is so high that the whole concept of "love" in these situations is questionable. At least in your culture marriage means something and for the most part people don't run away when the going gets tough.
Yes India is outwordly a male dominated society, most societies are. Especially conservative ones, also you need to define domination, in this case I'm talking the business and social world. However for the most part the Indian woman rule the family life, and there are cases were women have taken control of village/town councils because they felt the men weren't getting the job done. Might want to watch some Indian movies sometimes (2nd biggest film industry in the world I think) you won't see any women in veils or burkas there, India isn't a Muslim country.
You said "Can reasoning and true love defeat customs?" in return I'd like to ask you what do you mean by reasoning, second of all I'm sure love does exist in India. In fact I know it does as I've met a few India who did not go for arranged marriages. Most people here get together for reasons other than love anyways so you might want to analyse this a bit more. | |
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| Why Indians are scared to love?
Posted: 7/9/2005 2:57:44 AM | | Sex and love are a personal conflict with answering MS software/ MacIntosh debugging issues and is forbidden and will be punished by termination. | |
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