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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Evil does?Evil do...an Evil done....;)      Home login  
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 goodvibes32U
Joined: 10/28/2008
Msg: 1
Evil does?Evil do...an Evil done....;)Page 1 of 2    (1, 2)
Maybe i have the wrong Forum? Maybe i should be posting in the Religion Forum? I dont know and that is pretty much my question.....Does Evil have a place in Science? Is it considered a fact and the Evil part of something has been studied?

All i can see with the "Evil" thing is bull....Dumb people,uneducated people and mis-guided or in need of guidence people use the word....I always think there is an explanation to what another may call Evil...Mentaly unstable for doers of evil ....and condemers are just dumb?

Does any science reconise evil?
 Jiperly
Joined: 8/30/2006
Msg: 2
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Evil does?Evil do...an Evil done....;)
Posted: 1/26/2012 1:37:57 PM
Evil is subjective. So no, there is no "scientific evil" or "evil gene" or anything.

Evil only exists in your mind. That's not to say it doesn't exist....but its a mental construct
 SteveNaive
Joined: 1/10/2011
Msg: 3
Evil does?Evil do...an Evil done....;)
Posted: 1/26/2012 2:42:18 PM
Does any science reconise evil?

Only the science of world domination

Evil is what the majority says is evil in any given place on a pattern of behaviour that doesn't fit with majority moral standpoint
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 4
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Evil does?Evil do...an Evil done....;)
Posted: 1/26/2012 4:57:34 PM
Evil is a religious interpretation of a negative experience or concept. So no, eveil does not belong is a scientific discussion.
 A_Gent
Joined: 8/18/2011
Msg: 5
Evil does?Evil do...an Evil done....;)
Posted: 1/26/2012 5:04:28 PM
Even if evil is subjective, if you can measure it, it is within the realms of science.

Psychology, sociology, anthropology.


But even if you don't like the word and substitute it with a moral good or bad.. you are talking about the same quality.... just different words.

Look up the thread "what is evil"
 gofrette
Joined: 1/20/2012
Msg: 6
Evil does?Evil do...an Evil done....;)
Posted: 1/26/2012 9:27:34 PM
believe it or not...


there are many questions that science can do JACK SQUAT to answer.
and forget the gods of technology. there is no app to find your soul.

of course evil exists. as a functioning human you will know evil when you see it.
do you really think killing and raping children for fun and amusement is part of subjective morality?

and if you do think it is
I dare you to reply why that is so.

consider the following:

Morality has a place in science
 A_Gent
Joined: 8/18/2011
Msg: 7
Evil does?Evil do...an Evil done....;)
Posted: 1/27/2012 4:21:52 AM
Here's a test OP.

You have a dog. You let it out for exercise. ...maybe you let it roam or maybe it got out of the yard/off the leash ....It is by the road side... a smart dog... not on the driving surface.. just to the side. A car comes down the road.. .the driver intentionally swerves and your dog is road kill. The car continues the driver laughing his head off.. such sport. Did you hear the way the dog went splat?

Was that evil?

Is it any less real than the car and your dead pet?
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 8
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Evil does?Evil do...an Evil done....;)
Posted: 1/27/2012 5:55:25 AM
Not sure what you are going for there, Gent. The fact that something horrible is done, doesn't have anything to do with evil. Evil isn't a scientific term, it's an emotional/philosophical/religious one.
 goodvibes32U
Joined: 10/28/2008
Msg: 9
Evil does?Evil do...an Evil done....;)
Posted: 1/27/2012 9:47:31 AM
Here's a test OP.
You have a dog. You let it out for exercise. ...maybe you let it roam or maybe it got out of the yard/off the leash ....It is by the road side... a smart dog... not on the driving surface.. just to the side. A car comes down the road.. .the driver intentionally swerves and your dog is road kill. The car continues the driver laughing his head off.. such sport. Did you hear the way the dog went splat?
Was that evil?
Is it any less real than the car and your dead pet?

No the driver was not evil,his actions could be seen as evil but what he is ,is ?....F-up ?some one who hates dogs because as a child he was tormented by one,and say a family member used to threaten him with the dog?....Maybe he is a secret gay man and his friends were close to finding out his secret so he was trying to be Manly(ffs i dont know?)....Maybe his passengers were the evil bullys that made him do it....Maybe as a child he was told dogs are evil and they should be all killed?....What ever it be...it is not a natural evil side of the drivers character...i dont think.
Again i say that evil is not anything other than a quick fix explanation for something/actions/people ,and is used by people who cannot explain themselves properly.
 A_Gent
Joined: 8/18/2011
Msg: 10
Evil does?Evil do...an Evil done....;)
Posted: 1/27/2012 1:33:00 PM
Even saying something is horrible is making a judgement call, Igor.

And yet us human types, since before the dawn of civilization, have had a sense of morality... a sense of evil.

I bet the OP have felt ---palpably felt --- that the driver of the car was evil or had done something evil?

Can one measure evil? Perhaps indirectly one can measure the effects of evil. But how can one measure the effects of something that isn't real?

And there are other paths to knowledge than the scientific method... good as it can be.

Must be something there.
 Kings_Knight
Joined: 1/20/2009
Msg: 11
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Evil does?Evil do...an Evil done....;)
Posted: 1/29/2012 11:03:24 PM
" ... .Does Evil have a place in Science? Is it considered a fact and the Evil part of something has been studied? ... "


Define 'EVIL'. Unless the term(-s) are defined prior to beginning the debate, each person will necessarily define the term as they see fit (and as it advances their agenda). 'EVIL' is NOT, however, a 'scientific' concept since it is not a measurable or provable / disprovable quantity. There are no hypotheses advanced, and no reliable replicability. If you wish to relegate this to the philosophical and / or moral areas of life, those ones would be the most suitable venues in which to base the discussion.

Your definition of 'EVIL' is ... ?

And no, you can't use the 'James Bond villain' type definition, either ...
 A_Gent
Joined: 8/18/2011
Msg: 12
Evil does?Evil do...an Evil done....;)
Posted: 1/30/2012 10:18:45 AM
DARKNESS is not a thing that can be measured. It is the absence of energy in the form of light. Something can only get so dark... and then it cannot get any darker. Which can be objectively measured.

COLD does not exist in and of itself. Something can only get so cold and no colder. It is the absence of energy in the form of heat. And absolute zero is a finite point.. you can't get colder. Heat, however, is quantifiable and, ergo, in the realm of science.

Perhaps by the same application, evil is not a thing of itself, but the absence of energy in the form of EMPATHY. Which can be also be quantified... and ergo... is in the realm of science.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/experts/darcia-narvaez-phd

Although ... is there a finite limit to an absence of empathy as there would be to heat and light?


And.... Apparently... one CAN quantify evil.

Please be introduced to the Depravity Scale, an objective measure based on forensic evidence. This instrument distinguishes not who is depraved but rather, what aspects of a given crime are depraved and the degree of a specific crime's depravity.

https://depravityscale.org/depscale/index.php


However, I refer back to an earlier post.

A thought experiment, if you will.

You have a dog... the dog gets loose... the dog is by the side of the road... a car comes along and the driver intentionally swerves and kills your dog... the driver continues on laughing at such good sport.

Now tell me that evil is not real?
 SteveNaive
Joined: 1/10/2011
Msg: 13
Evil does?Evil do...an Evil done....;)
Posted: 1/30/2012 11:15:01 AM
Ok A Gent
A torturer puts three people to death through the use of torture devices. At 4 oclock he picks up his days wages, Go's and buys food then gets home gives the food to his wife and go's and helps his kids with their homework.
On a quantitive scale how evil is that man and on a quantitive scale how evil is that man when he repeates his routine the next day but stops to a dog from running in front of a car ?
 A_Gent
Joined: 8/18/2011
Msg: 14
Evil does?Evil do...an Evil done....;)
Posted: 1/30/2012 2:17:52 PM
Would a culture that uses torture as you describe be the sort of society where such a person would be doing the dutiful husband and dad role?

And if he stopped the dog from running in front of a car.. would it be more so to have it on the dinner plate?

Can you perhaps think of a more realistic example?
 Kings_Knight
Joined: 1/20/2009
Msg: 15
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Evil does?Evil do...an Evil done....;)
Posted: 1/30/2012 4:05:21 PM
" ... Perhaps by the same application, evil is not a thing of itself, but the absence of energy in the form of EMPATHY. Which can be also be quantified... and ergo... is in the realm of science. ... "


Oh crap. Enter the Betazoid 'empaths' and Deanna Troi ... I'm going to tell Riker.

When do the Ferengi come onstage ... ?

" ... Now tell me that evil is not real? ... "


'Evil' IS real - it's just outside the purview of hard science. It's in the SOFT sciences (i.e., the 'humanities' and 'social sciences) where they make up the rules as they go along to allow the outcome to fit their preconceived notions.
 A_Gent
Joined: 8/18/2011
Msg: 16
Evil does?Evil do...an Evil done....;)
Posted: 1/30/2012 6:36:27 PM
'Evil' IS real

There you have it!

"It's just outside the purview of hard science."

Ergo, it is science that is an inadequate quality to fully appreciate the reality of evil.
 Kings_Knight
Joined: 1/20/2009
Msg: 17
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Evil does?Evil do...an Evil done....;)
Posted: 1/30/2012 9:19:07 PM

" ... Ergo, it is science that is an inadequate quality to fully appreciate the reality of evil. ... "


Ergo, the SOFT sciences are a motley collective of academic BS at which people shovel good money so as to find answers to irrelevant questions concerning dubious 'morality play' fare. 'Everyman' was fine theatre for the Middle Ages, but it's now considered outré.

Just because something is deemed 'real' is no reason to elevate it to an undeserved position of importance. That tactic works quite well for Stephen King, but other people just don't have the panache to pull off that sort of thing.
 SteveNaive
Joined: 1/10/2011
Msg: 18
Evil does?Evil do...an Evil done....;)
Posted: 1/30/2012 11:33:46 PM
Msg 14
A realistic example based in fact of a society where a torturer can also be a devouted family man and a church goer.....Peron's Argentina and i can throw fact after fact of the grey area of human moriality till the cows come home but can offer one shred of proof that Evil exists as an outside force that influences a human to act beyond it's own nature/nurture or wet webbed moral outlook and before you throw in Thats History read up on US and UK involvement in Rendition and tell me the devil made them do it
 A_Gent
Joined: 8/18/2011
Msg: 19
Evil does?Evil do...an Evil done....;)
Posted: 1/31/2012 12:40:19 AM
Tell us more about Rendition.
 SteveNaive
Joined: 1/10/2011
Msg: 20
Evil does?Evil do...an Evil done....;)
Posted: 1/31/2012 1:12:58 AM
Try Googling it then make give your opinion revelent to this thread on Evil does?Evil do...an Evil done, does it exist as an outside force and can it be measured using emperical techniques or is it a word used by society to justify that Humankind is closer to the trees than the stars and we still have a lot evolving to do but are blinkered by a belief that we are not responsible for our own animalism
 Kings_Knight
Joined: 1/20/2009
Msg: 21
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Evil does?Evil do...an Evil done....;)
Posted: 1/31/2012 6:41:05 AM
" ... Try Googling it then make give your opinion revelent to this thread on Evil does?Evil do...an Evil done, does it exist as an outside force and can it be measured using emperical techniques or is it a word used by society to justify that Humankind is closer to the trees than the stars and we still have a lot evolving to do but are blinkered by a belief that we are not responsible for our own animalism ... "


Wow. Just ... effin' ... wow. What a gift - and it's not yet Christmas ... wow.

I'm so happy you used Peronistas (@ 18) instead of the SS guards at Theresienstadt.
 A_Gent
Joined: 8/18/2011
Msg: 22
Evil does?Evil do...an Evil done....;)
Posted: 1/31/2012 6:48:09 AM
Steve:

Rendition.

You are the one to introduce the term.

Please clarify.
 SteveNaive
Joined: 1/10/2011
Msg: 23
Evil does?Evil do...an Evil done....;)
Posted: 1/31/2012 7:01:15 AM
@ Kings Knight
Not getting your point. I could have used the example of British soldiers at the Boer internment camps of the 1800's or a 100 others to make my point Human morality is not influenced by external forces of darkness or light
 SteveNaive
Joined: 1/10/2011
Msg: 24
Evil does?Evil do...an Evil done....;)
Posted: 1/31/2012 7:14:05 AM
Ok A Gent lets play this game
Do you deny that domestic and foreign nationals in the US and UK were placed on aircraft and flown to destinations unknown and subjected to torture by employees of the US and UK intelligence services which is coined in the media as Rendition Flights and if you don't deny it then these people and nations by your own argument are under the influence of external Evil forces and those involved are unable to be good family people and run over dogs and eat them?
 Kings_Knight
Joined: 1/20/2009
Msg: 25
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Evil does?Evil do...an Evil done....;)
Posted: 1/31/2012 7:41:32 AM
" ... @ Kings Knight
Not getting your point. ... "


@ 23: Why am I not surprised ... ?

What about the Union prison camp known as 'Andersonville' ... ? Or Pol Pot's killing fields, Mao's 'Cultural Revolution' and the Red Guards, Kristallnacht, the Warsaw Ghetto, Babi Yar, Pickett's Charge, Sherman's 'March to the Sea', or the 'South Park' episode where Chef forgets to bring a child for sacrifice, and Kenny's soul exits the body but has nowhere to go, so Kenny's soul enters a slab of roast beef. Which, if any, of these are 'relevant' in your tiny universe ... ?

Please try to make some logical sense with your presentation.
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