jlbiv
| | Joined: 9/2/2011
Msg: 1 | |
| | Von DanikenPage 1 of 2 (1, 2) | | Can't say I buy into his theories... But they make for some great Sci-Fi! Does anyone else watch shows like "Ancient Aliens" and that sort of thing for entertainment? Or do people actually believe this sort of stuff? | |
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| Von Daniken
Posted: 2/28/2012 5:44:29 PM | You're a lot younger than me.
So you weren't around when these stories hit - I was only about 10. It was pretty damn exciting there for a little while after Chariots of the Gods was shown on TV. Until, slowly, the debunking started up. But if you were a kid then, it was magic. | |
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jlbiv
| | Joined: 9/2/2011
Msg: 3 | |
| Von Daniken
Posted: 2/28/2012 6:08:10 PM | | I also really like history and science too, so it tends to really conflict with much of that. To really believe in things that he talks about, you have to ignore an awful lot of history. Every now and then I find some people who really believe in all that, it's fun to listen intently. I still love the stories though, it's not only entertaining, but tests your own knowledge of history and science. | |
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| Von Daniken
Posted: 2/28/2012 6:10:27 PM | If that's the ancient aliens thing on History I about puked watching one series. Anything they said was mysterious or unexplained they would bring back some guy saying SEE! this is where the aliens fit in. He was a dark haired wirey guy - may have been wearing glasses? After talking back to it - where is your evidence of that (a few times) I turned that crap off and figured history has now went down the tubes if they actually aired that. I even sent it to someone and said can you believe the crap they are putting out now ha
I'm not against the idea of aliens but I don't explain everything with it - that would sound like something else we have heard of ~wink.
Aha! This is the guy - lucky for you he's not your guy and lucky for me I'm not the only one that thought him looney.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCgnw_t-nXE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDKvWiToj8Y | |
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| Von Daniken
Posted: 2/29/2012 5:24:42 AM | Apparently, in order to be credible when it comes to goofy stuff, you either have to have a penchant for hats or weird hair. Like this guy:
http://chzderp.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/hurr-durr-derp-face-i-dont-know-therefore-aliens.jpg
But yeah, I'm ashamed to say that, at one time, I read Chariots of the Gods and gave it credence. In my defence, though, I WAS 14! Then I grew up. Eric von Daniken apparently doesn't like ancient people all that much and thinks they're really stupid. I think EVD is full of shit. But he sold lots of books and became a rich man. So you can't argue with that kind of success. | |
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| Von Daniken
Posted: 2/29/2012 1:38:06 PM |
Apparently, in order to be credible when it comes to goofy stuff, you either have to have a penchant for hats or weird hair. Like this guy:
Or you could just get a robe, an odd hat, some incense and a 2000 year old book. | |
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| Von Daniken
Posted: 3/1/2012 5:03:05 PM |
But yeah, I'm ashamed to say that, at one time, I read Chariots of the Gods and gave it credence. In my defence, though, I WAS 14!
(Gwen raises her hand) I was older than that! I loved (and still do love) sci-fi and fantasy--how could I have not fallen for Chariots of the Gods ? Then, I got all logical and rational.
The newest von Daniken is Zecharia Sitchin and his claim and the gods of the Sumerians were aliens. Sadly enough, "mature" adults are falling for this. | |
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jlbiv
| | Joined: 9/2/2011
Msg: 8 | |
| Von Daniken
Posted: 3/1/2012 7:19:12 PM |
http://chzderp.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/hurr-durr-derp-face-i-dont-know-therefore-aliens.jpg
I've seen that guy on the Aliens show! Ha Ha, that hair and fake tan is awesome! I never read either of the books, just would catch the documentaries from time to time. As interesting as the theories sounded, I couldn't put much stock in it unless someone managed to dig up an old crashed space ship or some part of some piece of equipment that suggests some sort of industry when there was none on this planet. You'd think if aliens were making regular visits, something would get lost and left behind at some point and turn up in an archeological dig. But nope, just some pottery, old tools made of stone or bronze maybe. | |
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| Von Daniken
Posted: 3/2/2012 8:15:32 AM | jlbiv >>>To really believe in things that he talks about, you have to ignore an awful lot of history.
What history do you have to ignore about the Nazca symbols when there is noone today who ever spoke to the inhabitants who made them and definitely no written records
What history did the Grooveware people leave in Western Europe...None
Why did they build stone circles and henges and leave dolmens and standing stones about
Von Daniken merely showed that these things are mysteries even today 30 years after Von Daniken and Boney M. | |
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| Von Daniken
Posted: 3/2/2012 8:49:09 AM | I think the real reason these claims cannot be taken seriously is simply Occam's razor. There is no physical evidence of alien visitation so mainstream scholars rightly cannot entertain this a factor, even if it fills the gaps in their own understanding.
Many of the ancient alien theories are based on interpretation of ancient texts such as descriptions of flying machines and gods/angels.
We may never know the exact way the pyrmaids were built, how the nazca lines were created or how massive stone blocks that tower cranes couldn't lift were moved into position.
However what seems more plausible than the Alien theory, something these people have overlooked, is the idea that human civilisation independently reached an advanced level in the past before being decimated and having to start all over again. Most civilisations exist near the sea and sea levels rose about 35 around 10,ooo BC - as a result most settlements that existed prior to that would have been lost, displaced populations would have had to start again and there are many folk tales of great floods (though in reality were as likely a gradual sequence of flood events as one globally cataclysmic one) that could reasonably be attributed to this event. Even if people had cultural records, preserving these is probably a low priority when your house is being washed away.
As for flying machines - could we have invented jet planes before in the distant past? Maybe not but what about hot air balloons (which are pretty low tech by our standards and could be thought of as a "chariot of fire" as they are propelled by a flame burner)? | |
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| Von Daniken
Posted: 3/2/2012 2:14:00 PM |
However what seems more plausible than the Alien theory, something these people have overlooked, is the idea that human civilisation independently reached an advanced level in the past before being decimated and having to start all over again.
I don't buy into this, but it IS more plausible than aliens. | |
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| Von Daniken
Posted: 3/2/2012 2:46:00 PM | However what seems more plausible than the Alien theory, something these people have overlooked, is the idea that human civilisation independently reached an advanced level in the past before being decimated and having to start all over again.
Wouldn't there be at least SOME type of evidence left behind, somewhere, something?
It is possible to estimate just how long it would take for all evidence of humans to dissapear, and then from that time forward, we should find something........ and we find nothing.
Like a poster said......... good scifi, but not much else.
Paul K | |
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jlbiv
| | Joined: 9/2/2011
Msg: 13 | |
| Von Daniken
Posted: 3/2/2012 6:16:44 PM |
What history do you have to ignore about the Nazca symbols when there is noone today who ever spoke to the inhabitants who made them and definitely no written records
Why did they build stone circles and henges and leave dolmens and standing stones about
Documentaries are of my favorite things to watch! I've watched numerous other shows on Stone Henge and the Nazca Lines, however they don't get into the aliens thing. They talk more about what they do know based on archeology and research done in those areas to gain a better understanding. As for the lines, what we have found out is that the lines were not just cleared and made for visual purposes. We know the lines were walked on, sort of like a path, the soil under the lines is more dense than the surrounding soil, suggesting there was constant movement over those areas. As far as Stone Henge, they have also discovered other sites where digging is ongoing. What they have found so far, is a nearly identical area not far away where there was a set up like stone henge, but made of wood posts. Trails connect these areas, and they figure this was likely some sort of route that was walked in celebration of the seasonal changes at the time of the solstice. They were able to find that there were many trash pits where large amounts of food were likely consumed (suggesting a heck of a party).
So while there's not a lot of written history, there is a ton of other evidence that suggests something other than aliens. If something alien is ever discovered, it would be very exciting for every archeologist out there and anyone in the scientific community. As of now, there isn't a single shred of evidence that intelligent life exists off of this planet. Running the odds, there's a good possibility there is, but no proof as of yet. | |
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| Von Daniken
Posted: 3/3/2012 5:41:58 AM | ^^^^
X-files type stories do raise some interesting questions about alien visitiations.
If evidence of an alien visitiation in the past (and I mean real evidence) was discovered, would it be headline news or would governments attempt to cover it up as some Ufologists claim has happenned?
I think we can safely assume though that the Roswell UFO incident was circulated by the CIA to cover up secret aircraft tests (and probably alot of cold war spy technology too). I saw a recent documentary about claims the Nazis were thought to be experimenting with novel aviation technology (saucer-shaped craft) which was seized and covered up after the allied occupation. Prior to their existence becoming public knowledge, there were many (triangle shaped) UFO sightings that match the description of stealth aircraft.
That said there is still the small percentage of phenomena that cannot be explained.
I think also the added entertainment/fascination value in these things comes from the level of suspension of disbelief greater than you can get from fiction - i.e. you can think just maybe it is true. | |
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| Von Daniken
Posted: 3/3/2012 6:45:25 AM |
We know the lines were walked on, sort of like a path, the soil under the lines is more dense than the surrounding soil, suggesting there was constant movement over those areas.
I didn't know this--interesting. A part of opening and closing a circle is walking widdershins and deosil; if the ancients were walking on the lines, it was most likely a ritualistic aspect of their religion.
Or maybe a conga or bunny-hop line.
If evidence of an alien visitiation in the past (and I mean real evidence) was discovered, would it be headline news or would governments attempt to cover it up as some Ufologists claim has happenned?
Humans would no longer panic if we had proof that UFOs had visited or continue to visit us. I can't buy into government cover-ups because there is just no point. | |
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| Von Daniken
Posted: 3/3/2012 7:08:01 AM |
I can't buy into government cover-ups because there is just no point.
I can't buy it because I can't think of any government agency I've ever seen that would be that competent! | |
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veevee
| | Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 17 | |
| Von Daniken
Posted: 3/3/2012 12:33:21 PM | Humans would no longer panic if we had proof that UFOs had visited or continue to visit us. I can't buy into government cover-ups because there is just no point.
There is good reason to not tell us about alien life spotted.
We would panic and ask if there has been communication verbally.
We would ask if they were aggressive and/or ask if we can dominate them and what they can give or barter with us.
We would ask for interviews and they would run the talk show circuit.
We would ask if they can be killed or combatted should they become aggressive (only one way to know if they can die - try to kill one).
What if they were friends with only China - wouldn't every country but China get a little concerned about what they could cook up together against them.
Some might start worshipping them.
Some might try to ask them to save humanity and kill our leadership.
It's pretty dangerous to let us know, I'll bet. For the people in charge.
Some may ask to be taken off this planet if they can travel from it.
What then when humans just vanish at will - how do you convince them to stay and keep their job and continue to support an economy and pay taxes. Someone else could offer them free space travel for a few anal probes and some minor egg/sperm donations lol
Maybe I watched too much V in the old days.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wa2aCC-1JEs | |
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| Von Daniken
Posted: 3/3/2012 2:00:39 PM |
There is good reason to not tell us about alien life spotted.
We would panic and ask if there has been communication verbally.
We would ask if they were aggressive and/or ask if we can dominate them and what they can give or barter with us.
We would ask for interviews and they would run the talk show circuit.
We would ask if they can be killed or combatted should they become aggressive (only one way to know if they can die - try to kill one).
What if they were friends with only China - wouldn't every country but China get a little concerned about what they could cook up together against them.
Some might start worshipping them.
Some might try to ask them to save humanity and kill our leadership.
It's pretty dangerous to let us know, I'll bet. For the people in charge.
Some may ask to be taken off this planet if they can travel from it.
What then when humans just vanish at will - how do you convince them to stay and keep their job and continue to support an economy and pay taxes. Someone else could offer them free space travel for a few anal probes and some minor egg/sperm donations lol
In the good ol' days, we would have panicked, etc., but we are quite used to the idea now! | |
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| Von Daniken
Posted: 3/4/2012 8:54:53 AM |
We would ask for interviews and they would run the talk show circuit.
Lol I'm just trying to picture Jeremy Paxman interviewing the Prime Minister of Alpha Centauri! | |
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| Von Daniken
Posted: 3/6/2012 3:56:54 AM | The last documentary about the late period stonehenge included a man from Madagasgar.
In Madagascar there are neolithic sites which are still used today. He recognised stones as being related to the dead while wood was related to the living ie this life.
When this information was applied to Stonehenge the penny dropped . Woodhenge nearby was associated. They traced a route to the River Avon and discovered remains of other stone holes beside the river in a circular arrangement.
The wood circle then a river which is followed and then a avenue to the stone henge.
Life flow of life and then death.
Newgrange Ireland is right beside the River Boyne
Ballynahatty (Giantsring) Ireland is right beside River Lagan
Pyramids right beside the Nile. | |
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| Von Daniken
Posted: 3/6/2012 1:51:15 PM | | I used to read those books back in the 60's. Frankly, I don't believe any of that stuff. | |
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| Von Daniken
Posted: 3/12/2012 12:14:48 AM | | Any alien civilisation that is smart enough to develop the technology to travel to our solar system and contact us, is most likely smart enough to know better. | |
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| Von Daniken
Posted: 3/12/2012 10:16:01 PM | In Madagascar there are neolithic sites which are still used today.
Humans have only lived in Madagascar about 2000 years. It's perhaps a misnomer to call anything in Madagascar neolithic, given that the colonists who formed the various Malagasy tribes came from a mix of cultures [Sundan fishermen, Arab sailors, East African fishermen and cattle herders] which included bronze and iron. It's not surprising that such sites are still in use, since they're not that old and Madagascar has been "behind the times" and relatively remote for most of its recent history.
Your point, however, is valid. We can often gain new insights into puzzling things, by consulting with those who come from analagous but living cultures. | |
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| Von Daniken
Posted: 7/17/2012 9:30:19 AM | Frogoeyes I take your point. The structures shown were made of large stones which would be called megalithic sites. In the program I watched it showed the structures.
see http://www.archaeology.org/1001/etc/conversation.html
Whether the structures are pre metal age or later constructions I do not know.
The Arc de Triompe is a structure entirely of limestone built in the recent metal age. | |
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| Von Daniken
Posted: 7/21/2012 12:52:40 PM | | A slightly different argument for angels and demons | |
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