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| | other people's childrenPage 1 of 2 (1, 2) | Now I think the subject of your new partner's children from his/her previous relationship has certainly come up before, but I need some wise heads on my particular situation.
I have been with my fishie almost 2 years, and living together for 5 months now. We live together well and are both happy with how things are progressing. But there are a bucket load of issues with his children. 2 older boys (19 and 22) live at the family home with mum. Both under- or not- employed, do drugs yada yada. No qualifications. The house is hell on wheels, mum and boys fight constantly etc. Today the 19 year old threw a coffee table at mum after she put him down yet again. Now really, that doesn't matter, none of my business, I never see them. BUT. There is an 11 year old boy too.
The effect this has on him is immeasurable. He is one of the rudest, most demanding, badly behaved kids I have ever met and I cannot bear how he talks to his dad. Saying that, one on one he and I get on REALLY well- I am not family so maybe he feels more at ease. No conflict. Today he went home after 2 days with us. He was back 4 hours later as mum has a job trial, but oh man! He was wound tighter than a spring, effing and blinding at dad about how his mum treats him- he hears and sees WAY more than he should. He would not come in from the rain so my fishie eventually persuaded him to go visit the grand parents.
How can we proceed? The mum won't talk to dad, sees nothing wrong, just blames the older boys. I dunno if we could get dad and son into counselling maybe? How can I help... I usually just button my lip, as it is not my business but this kid is set to follow his older brothers on the road to nowhere (sorry, Talking Heads lol)
Any  ?? | |
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| other people's children
Posted: 3/3/2012 2:37:46 AM | You can only change yourself. Expecting someone else to change is insanity. My suggestion is get yourself your own apartment and when things turn to crap just walk away and go to your happy place away from the drama. If dad and kids dont want to change anything, so be it... Dont let it bring you down. You sound like a typical enabler. You want to save the kids... when you should instead focus on yourself and survival of the fittest. Let em die. Let em screw up their life. It is not YOUR PLACE to do something about it....
God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.
Living one day at a time;
Enjoying one moment at a time;
Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
Taking, as He did, this sinful world
as it is, not as I would have it;
Trusting that He will make all things right
if I surrender to His Will;
That I may be reasonably happy in this life
and supremely happy with Him
Forever in the next.
Amen. | |
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Posted: 3/3/2012 3:19:42 AM | I don't know what is the right way for you but in a similar situation with my step daughter when she was 12. I was just there for her to talk to. Even though I divorced her father she's 26 now. Has 2 jobs, a partner who she has lived with for a long time and her own home.
She couldn't talk to her mum and definitely not her dad. Her mum recently had her sister taken off her by social services. So, please don't think that you are doing nothing because you are even as a friend who sometimes just needs to listen.
Whilst his parents refuse to talk or do anything about it. He has one out let, one person who is there. He perhaps does need therapy but unless both parents are willing. There is nothing you can do.But listen. | |
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Posted: 3/3/2012 6:49:56 AM | You have a very very complicated situation there.
Behavior that intense, in that many children means two things: possible inherited blood chemistry imbalances, and an almost certain long history of some sort of abuse. Religious traditionalists might refer to the idea that a long trod crooked road, takes almost as long to trod straight again. The same is true with complicated and deeply ingrained problems and distortions of life such as these children likely suffered.
To work it out, you will have to do a number of things. You will need to work slowly, in a flexible way, with the children themselves, recognizing that though their acting out isn't acceptable long term, that in order to gain enough of their trust and belief in your genuine good wishes for their welfare, you will allow them to express themselves in this manner at first.
I have no way of knowing what caused these children to feel so trapped and antagonized, that they have to lash out so violently to feel that they are gaining a sense of equilibrium. If there is no blood chemistry component though, it is very likely that the children were forced through out their lives to put up with either direct abuse of themselves (over-the-top punishments, or radically illogical alternating restrictions and demands), while being strictly prohibited from responding in kind.
My children had to grow up with a situation of a bipolar mother, and a handicapped sibling, and lots of situations where they knew full well that anger and frustration was being directed at them that they didn't deserve, and that they were unable to enjoy some parts of life, like knowing that their sibling would behave himself in a predictably brotherly manner. This caused a lot of tension in them, which still comes out in various ways. They had good reasons to be angry with their handicapped brother, who would sometimes hit them just because they were close by, or because he was frustrated (he still can't talk), but there was no way we parents could allow them to hit him back as hard as they felt they needed to (we did allow a certain amount, as a logical way for the handicapped boy to learn the results of his own misbehaviors).
And worst of all, when Mom went into nut mode, I had to restrain them from what would have been futile intense reactions to her, either because I thought I had to maintain a standard level of parental authority, or because there was no way to react to an insane person in a way that would make things better instead of worse. So they had tensions they couldn't release in any satisfactory way, and that came out in undesirable ways at times.
I suspect something even more intense is at work in your situation. Hopefully, you have begun to learn something of the past that the children experienced with their parents, and the more you do learn, the more you might be able to help them apply rational, controlled responses to gain their sense of self-worth and validity as human beings. Common reasons why children attack both parents, is that one was the persecutor, and the other they perceived to have been the enabler. In my case, that was the steady danger I had when I tried to both discipline my children, and deal with their mother's instability.
So far, it seems that, perhaps because I constantly explained to them exactly why I would take their mothers side in some situations, they have not come to blame me completely for what they went through, only partly. In your situation, it sounds as though they blame both parents equally.
Therapy can help, because what most therapy is, is actually "communication concentrate." It does two things: it helps the person getting the therapy, to be able to put into words, what they have been feeling and "knowing" inside, but unable to express rationally...and it gives them a stable, safe forum to deal with it, without fear of being punished for any mistakes they make while working things out.
You can do essentially the same thing yourself, to some extent, by showing them that you do believe in their essential goodness, even as you nudge them to express whatever anger they have, in ways that don't involve coffee tables and physical injuries. I would most suggest that you go with a constant focus on asking and not on telling. That means, focus less on telling them not to do things, and more on asking them to explain why they are doing them. Ask as calmly as you can, to encourage them to explain calmly, as well as to reinforce that you yourself actually believe that even highly emotional things can be worked out with reason. | |
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Posted: 3/3/2012 6:58:30 AM | Sounds like Pops needs a testicular implant.
Boys, especially teenaged ones NEED a strong father.
And for the sake of how they treat women in the future, he needs to man up and yank them down by the seat of their pants and beat some adult behavior into them.
How you deal with it is up to you . . . but its HIS issue - and the mothers.
They need to square their baggage away between them to set those kids straight. | |
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Posted: 3/3/2012 3:09:33 PM | tbh, it's not your problem and where possible i'd suggest just staying out of it. as the other man, you will NEVER be right. whatever you say or do will not be right.........not in her eyes, the kids eyes or their dad's eyes.
unless the kid(s) does something to you, or a row is about to get physical just turn the other cheek and be a good boyfriend to their mum. | |
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Posted: 3/3/2012 7:12:57 PM | Thank you very much everyone. I certainly know there are no 'quick-fixes' and I do not exonerate dad at all- it is as much his responsibility as hers.
To the poster advocating walking away- I won't do that because I love my SO and want to continue to build a life with him. I do not believe that wanting to help, even just by providing an ear for both dad and younger son, is 'enabling' something bad. I chose to move IN with him already knowing some of the convolutions and resentments going on. Of course I do see more of it now we live together.
@CalypsoRach- I do stay out of it and much like you, try to simply be an available ear and to provide a calm oasis at our house. I do think it is good that he can come here and have peace and quiet and see his dad in what probably looks to him like a dull relationship... no drama 
@Igor- so much to digest in what you say. There may well be a little of the chemical imbalance you mention as mum is on and off anti-depressants and has been over a period of years. She has seen several psychiatrists over time and has never been diagnosed bipolar, although the most recent one she is seeing suggested social dissociative disorder and another disorder but I cannot recall the name. It has to do with not seeing the drama you create as drama.
His dad DOES listen to him, but often the boy won't or can't explain what is going on inside. Which may be where a professional could help- give him the words he needs to explain himself.
A further problem is that mum wants to sell the family home, turf out the middle son whom she does not like and move the 11 year old and the 22 year old several hours away. What this will do to the bond that exists now between father and son I have no idea. He needs stable people in his life. He met my parents over Christmas and absolutely adored them, coming over to see them 2 and 3 times a day. Same with my daughter when she is visiting. Poor bugger.
Anyway, thank you all for the input. I don't want to turn my back on a kid just because his upbringing has obviously been screwy. Keep on keepin' on  | |
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Posted: 3/4/2012 12:32:52 AM | Wow, OP. There are so many things going on here. You say that you and your SO get along, if you want that to continue I'd suggest family counselling, even if it just the two of you.
You say that you don't see the older boys and their behaviour is no problem because you don't have to deal with them? The mother is saying that the older boys are influencing the younger one into acting like a raging maniac? If you don't think that will ever affect you, you're going to be jolted into reality. But that isn't necessarily something that has to jeopardize your relationship with their father, if you guys get some counselling and learn some new techniques in dealing with his family's dysfunction.
You're just a step-parent in this situation with no say or authority and quite new to this family "dynamic". It is not easy, you must have the patience of a saint, literally. I've been on both sides of this situation. So, yes get some help professionally. I wish you luck, OP. | |
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Posted: 3/4/2012 2:19:20 AM |
@CalypsoRach- I do stay out of it and much like you, try to simply be an available ear and to provide a calm oasis at our house. I do think it is good that he can come here and have peace and quiet and see his dad in what probably looks to him like a dull relationship... no drama
Oh I recall that so well. Where they are not proactive in helping. I kinda stepped up to the plate in a lot of ways. If I think back to the screaming women accusing her of all sorts and throwing her out over silly things. It wasn't exactly a peaceful environment.
I always believed my step daughters mum had a bi polar disorder for the behaviour and extreme stories that came out. Some of which were back lashed to us. Although it's not nice in time I guess karma came back and paid a visit.
Her step sister that was taken away has behaviour issues. Shop lifting, smoking, drinking. She's 14. I don't know if it's down to her mum or not but she started acting out where as my step daughter had an outreach. Where as her other sister did not. I honestly believed her having someone to talk to made a huge difference.
If mum and dad won't step up please don't believe you can't make a difference because you can. Perhaps have a conversation where dad and he can go into therapy together to help him where his dad doesn't understand or he can't express or tell him. It would explain his behaviour to like a lashing out. | |
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Posted: 3/4/2012 12:56:52 PM | It's none of your business until the kid turns on you. You are more than willing to keep your lips closed, just as long as he knows his role?
You already said that the child confides in you, so what are YOU saying to him to help with his feelings? | |
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Posted: 3/4/2012 5:40:33 PM | | If that 11 year old boy is being abused as you suggest you should without doubt contact family services in your area and REPORT IT. | |
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Posted: 3/5/2012 12:35:07 AM | I can only address this from how I chose to behave. First of all, I don't get the he is not your kid attitude. You are with his dad, his kids are part of him, ergo you deal with the kid stuff. And I don't mean you don't care, I think however, when you have this mindset that it is somehow not your concern that this just doesn't seem normal to me. You are also never going to get rid of his kids so his kids will always be creating drama in his life.
If this young kid is in your house and your boyfriend is not around, are you not to act like a parent. I can appreciate the being a friend role but you are also living with his father and by extension are in some kind of quasi parenting role. If there is that much going on your boyfriend should be getting custody of that kid and I'm pretty sure that a psych evaluation of that household would point in the direction of child living with dad.
That's what I'd push for because if you don't, his behavior is going to escalate because it does not matter whether you are an oasis, if that is his everyday life, he's living in hell with no parent there. What if the brother's aim with the coffee table had been worse and it nailed the little kid? This is not a safe place for him, physically and emotionally and no one should have to tell his dad that having primarily custody would be better for that boy.
Of course, as I lived with a lazy parent of my stepson for 14 years, you have to evaluate how much you are willing to push and what kind of dad he is and whether you're okay with that. He should have already moved to get custody of that kid and obviously has written all three boys off as his ex-wife's problem; she created it she needs to fix it kind of attitude but perhaps the two older boys wouldn't be so out-of-control if dad had parented them? Idk, maybe the wife was a nut and undermined what dad did but he doesn't sound from what you posted like he's making much effort to fix things.
Saw the repost. He can prevent her moving that kid so far away. If she wants to sell the house because she can't um, just change the locks, she can move somewhere else in town. She cannot legally move a kid that far away from his other parent without the other parent's permission. If she wants to move, let her take her 22-year-old and leave the 11-year-old with his father. You have a few precious years before that kid is so screwed up you can't salvage things. | |
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AxYoM
| | Joined: 2/26/2012
Msg: 13 | |
| other people's children
Posted: 3/5/2012 7:13:50 AM | | Why doesn't the father take custody of the 11 year old boy, and give him a stable living environment? At this age a child can really chose which parent they wish to live with. | |
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Posted: 3/5/2012 9:58:59 AM | If your BF is so concerned about his son, then why is he not trying for custody? I would suggest seeing an attorney and starting immediately with some type of therapy for the poor kid. If the mother won't talk to him maybe she'll speak to a judge.
There is nothing worse to me than a parent that throws their hands up and just accepts bad manners, bad behavior and poor communication. At 11, there is still plenty of time to turn this kid around. It is your BFs responsibility above all else to protect this child.
How exactly do you have a loving and positive relationship with someone that is such a poor parent? He raised two rotten drugged out losers and now there's an 11 year old that he has left in this crazy home to fend for himself???? Sounds like a real sweel guy. | |
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Posted: 3/6/2012 1:52:34 AM | OK. Yes I do know my guy is 50% responsible for how his children turn out. I have asked why he let the kids rule the roost and good Grief... my child was extremely hard done by by his standards. But that is water under the bridge seeing as we are now dealing with the fallout. I am asking for opinions on the NOW not the past.
Carolann0308... please don't criticise my guy's personality... he IS a sweet/swell guy. He DOES lack parenting skills, and the ability to stand up to the boys' mum.
I have asked him as per this forum why he hasn't challenged the mum's ability to move the child away. I have asked him to speak to the solicitor tomorrow and he said he has been thinking about it and he will. I will chase this up.
The 11 y.o does not spend any time with me alone... mum will not allow it.
As far as childrens services go??? Her is so far down the list he barely rates a mention. I know. I have tried.
Ooops Package deal... sorry. I DO have a huge desire to help but... heck I find it hard to decide what is helpful and what is meddling. He has 2 parents who love him even if they seem to have little idea about how to raise him. I help him with homework, cook with him, persuade him to shower when he is here, laugh with him about internet stuff.... Truly, what else would you suggest? I am honestly asking as I am at a loss. The kiddo needs HELP. | |
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Posted: 3/6/2012 5:06:46 AM | Whatever you do, DO IT NOW. He is prepubescent. The success rate of counseling before puberty is In the upper 80"s, while post puberty, even by a few months, drops to the single digits.
Find a non-profit youth support agency that will take the kid on in confidence if he goes on his own- because I susp[ect other family will fight him and shame him for going. Suggest the grandparents take custody for a little while. Enroll him in a class or two that can get him out of the house, ones that have high demands of discipline and a strong authority figure such as a martial art (that will teach him that violence must have an ethical motive and comes with consequences) and music. Seek out a spring break and summer break camp to send him on, look for ones that specialize in angry teens- NOT a punitive one- that can give him ways to show he has abilities and potential by pushing him outside his comfort zone. A once popular one for giving teens confidence here is called Outward Bound, the kids were challenges in outdoor activities and teen building. Have Dad go to counseling that can teach him new language for his son so that he can better communicate with him and his son can feel as if someone is hearing him. Just do it now. | |
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Posted: 3/6/2012 7:03:17 AM |
Carolann0308... please don't criticise my guy's personality... he IS a sweet/swell guy. He DOES lack parenting skills, and the ability to stand up to the boys' mum.
Sorry if I came off as harsh, but this is a 50 year old man, right? When do you think is a good time for him to develop parenting skills if he has been a parent for over 20 years? Being afraid to stand up to the ex, being lax disciplining a child are all changeable things. If he does not take action then he will have three poorly behaved unmotivated children and you if you stay with him, are going to have them creating havoc and drama in your life. Sometimes you have to weight your options and decide if this 'swell' guy is good for your sanity or not.
I would suggest you encourage your BF to take a parenting class it is never too late. If he hesitates, then you know exactly how important his own children are to him. Parental love is being able to say 'no' to a kid. Because the opposite means you really don't worry about how their actions will affect them in the future. Or even worse you are too lazy to care.
This lackadaisical attitude washes over into every aspect of your life. Your BF's very easy going nature may appeal to you now, but you can guarantee it will affect you negatively in the future. | |
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Posted: 3/6/2012 8:26:52 AM | Knowing the other side to this kind of situation. Where there is no communication there is reasons for it also. I know my ex husband used to keep quiet for 2 reasons. 1) Her mouth 2) Further consequences on his daughter.
When someone appears not mentally balanced sometimes they prove it as well. I remember her mother digging at my step daughter once I became involved. She'd say the cruelness of things to her (sometimes sly other times screamed) which at the time had further Psychological problems to the situation. It's a very fine line in helping and making the situation worse in my opinion.
It's easy to say to a third party to take control when in fact it's not their place to do so. The only persons place to do so in this situation is her partners. Again with the impact it can have with all involved.
I would just keep talking to your partner OP and listening to the child. Offer support where you can.
Good Luck | |
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Posted: 3/8/2012 8:30:13 PM | Yes, I agree with Igor, although I didn't run through his whole post...I'm sure it's complete!
But, yes complicated situation. Maybe some health issues?
My advise is this - really define and decide for yourself how you really feel about this man. Because if you're going to be in it, your going to be in it.
Sounds like these kids have missed having a good set of united parents.
That's a problem not solved overnight, for sure.
Undoing what been done for so long takes tons of patience, research and commitment.
If this were me and I was crazy about the man - and because I'm a mom already - I'd take the bull by the horns and start making some meaningful changes.
Everything would change. 'Cause hell if I could accept this chaos!
Boundries - EXPLAINED.
Boundries - NEGOTIATED AND SET.
Boundries - KEPT.
Add to that some good old fashioned motherly love (baked cookies, clean laundry, talking with teachers, etc.) and you're on your way.
This is a commitment. Kids are a commitment.
I wish I could recommend some good books for this age grouping.
The best book I ever read and one that really helped me (a long time ago now - 23 years...!) was "Dare to Discpline" - if you can get past the Christian references (or not, depending on you...) the basic message is this -
YOU are the parent. YOU have the right to set rules.
YOU have the right and means to expect they will be followed.
YOU run the household, not them.
It does NOT mean you are the tyrant. It means harmony will be in your house and it starts with everyone knowing the rules. Kids want 'em - trust me - they want YOU to make them.
No wimpy parents allowed!
Good Luck! | |
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Posted: 3/11/2012 7:19:56 AM | Jojo, I'd do what you are doing, keep chasing his checking into the legal situation both in barring her taking the child so far away and also in seeking custody. I would also find a way to let your stepson know that you are available to talk to him if he wants to about anything that is bugging him.
My ex would never have done a thing to help his kid, he was definitely the path of least resistance. Don't let him give up on kid 3 like he did the first two if you can prevent it. | |
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Posted: 3/11/2012 11:15:11 PM | Okeedokee OP -
2 bits gets ya a thimblefull of coffee.....
The older two sons are grown and almost grown. Their story is what it is....but if they ever shake it up, they're however close to adulthood as is going to be.
The big kahoona in this situation is the boy.
My take? He's royally pissed - as well he should be, living in a carnival of dysfunction (I'm talking about his two bio-parents now.)
Sure, he's pissed at his dad. He needs rescuing from the lion's den big time, and it ain't happening. I'd be pissed too.
In the meantime, there's you. For him no doubt, you're a welcome breath of fresh air.
Your SO is no doubt a luvly guy, loves his boy(s) and all the rest, and maybe he even deep down inside feels like his hands are tied by big bad momma.
(And there..............right there: disorders? O kee-ryste. ) Polarized and mesmerized and lord knows what mixed up in a fine stew of psychotropics....what a recipe.
Whatever her issues really are? Probably went to hell in a handbasket long ago, sounds like, and have stayed there ever since. If she actually needs proper professional help, then she should just bloody well attend to it. Hades just might freeze over while the world waits in breathless anticipation for this to happen.
But meanwhile, back at the ranch:
I don't think the answer is getting hauled into family therapy (they're not your family) or even trying to deal with anyone - other than the boy. Focus on the boy.
That makes sense. You're a hit with him. You have something to work with.
But yeah...if I were your fellah, I'd be crusading big time to grab that kid. With two great big strong loving arms. And the devil deal with the consequences.
Lousy situation for you to be stuck in the middle of.
Hope (for the sake of you and your man, and especially the boy) this all works out.
He's the one.............still young enough to save. And damn! he needs savin'!!!! | |
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Posted: 3/12/2012 12:49:24 AM | Thank you for all the ideas and angles! First up- I do intend to be there for the boy as much as I can/am allowed to. FryrKrakn those are some scary stats if nothing is done for him right now. I am wondering if I could at least get my guy to do a proactive type of parenting class so he learns how to make his son feel worth something? My guy will tell ME how good his son is at art but rarely tells his son. That kind of thing constantly niggles away at a child. His mum said to dad... He's hopeless with homework isn't he? It is those kind of comments I wish would stop. I feel that learning to be a positive parent would really help.
To those of you suggesting a physical activity- I agree. He has been enrolled at soccer and after winning the cup one year in the under 10's, he left due to bullying the next year. He started Tae Kwon Do (sp??) but that has fizzled out. He has a huge interest in art and has done after school art classes and this is an area I want to encourage. I bought him a book of Escher prints for Christmas along with a box of graphite pencils and he loved it.
One little bit of good news is that his mum actually called our house herself on the weekend and I answered. First time she has ever done that. My SO is out of the country for 2 weeks and it is likely I will have the boy Tuesday and Thursdayevening next week while mum works, just me and him.
I am just scared that this will all be too little too late and another young lad with plenty of potential will slip through the cracks. It has only been in the last week when I have seen his education plan that I have realised just how disruptive he is at school... yet another area to worry about!!!
Oh and I owe CarolAnn an apology. My SO does sound like a weak ass in the way I describe him. I have no idea why he can be so organised and run his own business and deal with a lot of technical stuff yet cannot see he is failing his child..... too sad. | |
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Posted: 3/12/2012 2:24:38 AM |
He's hopeless with homework isn't he? It is those kind of comments I wish would stop. I feel that learning to be a positive parent would really help.
He could turn it around by saying hey do you have homework. I can't remember what it's like can I have a look with you? If he en powers his son it makes a difference. Words are very powerful. Perhaps do an exercise with your partner with examples of words then ask him how he feels about it?
Part of the problem I found was she felt as though she had no control. You could take him to an art gallery just you and him? Give him the ability to express his feelings in a better way. Art is very expressive..... | |
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Posted: 3/12/2012 2:37:28 AM | It's just such baby steps CalypsoRach!!! We do not have much time to change things for the boy if FryrKrakn is right... I want my guy to realise that how he acts with his son right now is NOT working and I think that having a non-invested party (such as a parenting teacher) might be best.
I will of course do my best to encourage the son in his interest in art. And yeah I wondered about a trip to Sydney to the art galleries there. It is only an hour away. Also the boy adores my 20 year old daughter who is also very artistic- a piece she made for me that hangs on my wall is a draw card for him. Shame she lives 1000 k's away lol!
I guess this thread can never really resolve my concerns because there is no easy way to fix things. But I do truly thank all contributors | |
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Posted: 3/12/2012 2:55:42 AM | This is hard one, as hey really are not kids anymore, & whatever way they were raised is already said & done with.
Just shower them with love i guess? Their Dad does need to set down some firm boundaries. | |
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