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 RedElectric
Joined: 11/8/2011
Msg: 1
Casual sex linked to depressionPage 1 of 9    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)
I recently listened to an interview with Dr Miriam Grossman talk about her book Unprotected by Dr. Anonymous (originally Anon to protect her job but has since been revealed) who at the time had worked at UCLA Councelling Center talk about casual sex being detrimental to women. She states that depression is rising among her female students and is finding that more and more of them engage in "Friends with Benefits" scenarios. In the end, the women often feel like they're not getting the "friend" part when the man is still reaping his "benefits". They "aren't even aware they're being exploited."

She says, "...We teach young people to be very particular in what they eat, how they exercise, to be ridiculously frightened of the dangers of second hand smoke, and to flee in terror if a teaspoonful of elemental mercury is spilled in a classroom, yet we are not honest with them about the dangers of casual sexual practices and that safer sex is no such thing. We don't teach young women that sex is biologically, hormonally, and emotionally different for them than it is for men and they are more likely to end up with depression and anxiety issues than the men they have casual relationships with."

The Dr explains how during sexual behavior the woman releases a hormone called Oxytocin, which is also released during nursing a baby, that promotes closeness and trust. It's a biochemical human attachment. Some of you may know about this already but it's not something I learned about in 5th grade sex ed!

Another psychiatrist says, "Ideology-driven health services lead young women to believe they are just like men – and they pay a high price for it... campus counseling centers are whitewashing the painful consequences of casual sex, STDs and abortion. They are promoting the notion that men and women are the same. They are not educating young people about future and family. In these issues, so central to campus health and counseling, we are failing our young people.”

An RN, who "could not in good concience work [at a university health clinic]" because observing for only 4 hrs, "They would sit and hand out birth control, the morning after pill and treatments for STD's, and none of them were educating these women and giving them guidence, not just for their health, but personally and emotionally. It was sad."

There has been a mention of older women being "jaded" and "damaged" as they get older, does this explain why?

If in school growing up it was instilled in you that sexual encounters could possibly have long lasting psychological effects on the woman's mantality, would it change your relationships/pursuits?

Is telling youth, "Just wear a condom!" enough?

Thoughts?

(Some of you may scoff and laugh and say there are some women who are just fine with sleeping around and are happy and fine with it, but are they really? Could they just be in denial? What about as they get older?)
 Kentish-Man
Joined: 3/7/2012
Msg: 2
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Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/25/2012 1:27:29 PM
I have to agree with this (for some men as well as women). There is a general problem in society where women are pathological in their desire to be seen as "the same" as men, when they are obviously not. They want to be able to drink as much, behave as badly, sleep around as much, all while crying the mantra that "if men can do it..."

The issues in this thread are just another symptom of this.

In fact I bet these very same women will be along quite soon to say the thread is rubbish and women can sleep around and enjoy it too :) The very same women who also constantly complain that men are only after them for sex.
 _TALL_IQ2_
Joined: 2/10/2010
Msg: 3
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/25/2012 1:31:22 PM
She states that depression is rising among her female students and is finding that more and more of them engage in "Friends with Benefits" scenarios. In the end, the women often feel like they're not getting the "friend" part when the man is still reaping his "benefits". They "aren't even aware they're being exploited."


Cause, or effect??

Soo many factors can lead to unhappiness and "depression" in college students.. Starting with being away from home (homesickness) and among only strangers for maybe the first time..

No longer with their high school cadre of friends and neighbor friends, just a spare concrete dorm room to go back to after a day full of tiring classes..

Soo, no wonder SOME turn to casual sex for some of that oxytocin and maybe warm fuzzies from a casual acquaintance...
 buckylv
Joined: 9/2/2011
Msg: 4
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Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/25/2012 1:34:58 PM
The only thing i would tell Dr Miriam Grossman is it goes both ways here. I love how men are the scapegoats for all these depressed women.
 nokia999
Joined: 1/25/2012
Msg: 5
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/25/2012 1:35:36 PM
I don't know if you can say casual sex can cause depression in women. It can be an indicator, but not a cause, I think.
I think the inherent sexism behind condemning women for having casual sex may damage them more than the lack of ensuing relationships.
If not, then why don't these comments include young men as well?
Oh that's right - they're sowing their wild seeds..
 Paderic
Joined: 2/23/2010
Msg: 6
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Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/25/2012 1:37:05 PM
Is this cut and pasted from a website? If it is copyrighted material, you can be sure it will be deleted.
 Landra2
Joined: 6/4/2009
Msg: 7
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Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/25/2012 1:46:10 PM
Who knows.
But there are way too many posts on this site from "confused" and "hurt" women who've had sex with guys they barely know and wonder why their phone isn't ringing.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 8
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Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/25/2012 2:11:56 PM
I agree with what Tall had to say.

One of the things that has been very clear to me about most of these sorts of "discoveries of links," is that the "discovery" always seems to fit right in with what the "discoverer" already believed the problem was.

This is most especially true in the case of things such as this, where a "sad commentary on modern society gone wrong" is a key part of the scenario.

When I was growing up, we were very much instilled with the idea that "sexual encounters could possibly have long lasting psychological effects on the woman's mentality," as well as a man's. It didn't accomplish anything more than to make teens of both sexes, absolutely sure that the older generation was hiding the real fun from them.

So all in all, I think this one is also mostly bunk, with the usual amount of "yes, that's what's pretty much always been true" thrown in around the edges.

Back when I was in college, people who were hostile towards the women's liberation movement, blamed that for everything that went wrong with any women they knew. At the same time, everyone who was pro women's lib, also blamed everything that went wrong with women on the oppression they saw themselves as fighting against.

Personally, I think it was another one of those "you are both right, at different times, and usually about different people than you are actually talking about."

If you do think that more services are needed to support and properly care for college aged kids, I think you are right. But you have to work to fix that, not by griping about cultural attitudes, but with funding. That's not popular with any political group these days.
 JDinMN
Joined: 2/12/2012
Msg: 9
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Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/25/2012 2:13:03 PM
Baloney. That's the same as saying the women had sex on wednesday (hump day) and were depressed. So it must be the day of the week causing it.

Need to see confidence levels and regressions before this can even begin to make scientific sense beyond somebodies personal interpretation (which is biased).

Bottom line. There may be correlation but "Correlation does not equal Causation".
 katalytic
Joined: 8/26/2011
Msg: 10
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/25/2012 2:20:50 PM
Nobody said men were the scapegoats, and in fact the point was made that the girls are making the decision themselves, without all of the information that could be made available.
I think those findings actually sound pretty believable. Oxytocin production is a fact, and has been shown to be released during sex and childbirth. Hormones have effects, and one of the effects of this one is an emotional reaction.
I do agree with what other posters have said about cause or effect. There is always more than one factor to any issue, especially one as prevalent as social construction.
Having said all of this, i wonder if anyone has looked at the role of close platonic friendships in the same girls who are engaging in FWBs.
 RedElectric
Joined: 11/8/2011
Msg: 11
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/25/2012 2:34:49 PM


TALL-IQ2
Cause, or effect??

She did touch on this a bit. They've done studies that have shown it's not that kids are depressed and they resort to substance abuse and sexual promiscuity, it's sexual activity results in substance abuse and depression.


Paderic
Is this cut and pasted from a website?

Educational Fair Use. But no, I wrote all that's not quoted.

Good stuff, Mazr45


JDinMN
Need to see confidence levels and regressions before this can even begin to make scientific sense beyond somebodies personal interpretation (which is biased).

That's just it. Should they put more emphasis on emotional and psychological development/therapy in schools to complete these studies?
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/25/2012 2:39:06 PM
I can see how "casual sex" or a FWB situation can cause a woman to become depressed.

Women expect more.
They want the closeness, the feeling of belonging.

Casual sex does not supply that.

And yes ... women are wired differently then men.
This does not mean that ALL women feel this way, as we are not ALL the same.
However, I would say a large majority of the women are left feeling empty after the sexual portion of the encounter is over.



The Dr explains how during sexual behavior the woman releases a hormone called Oxytocin, which is also released during nursing a baby, that promotes closeness and trust. It's a biochemical human attachment.


This makes a lot of sense to me.
I know the havoc that hormones can play within the body, and this is another chemical that is excreted for a purpose.

For the individuals who state ...

Women and men are the same.

No.
We are not.
And we never will be.
 SunshineAngel99
Joined: 10/13/2010
Msg: 13
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Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/25/2012 2:42:29 PM
"Baloney. That's the same as saying the women had sex on wednesday (hump day) and were depressed. So it must be the day of the week causing it.

Need to see confidence levels and regressions before this can even begin to make scientific sense beyond somebodies personal interpretation (which is biased).

Bottom line. There may be correlation but "Correlation does not equal Causation" "

This. ^^^



Deflection from the root of the problem is the worst advice any practicing medical professional can possibly do. It betrays everything about the Hippocratic Oath.
 carolann0308
Joined: 12/9/2006
Msg: 14
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Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/25/2012 2:43:40 PM
I think the key to avoid getting depressed over who you are sleeping with is for the woman to understand from first thrust that it actually casual. Far too many women don't ask.
 Tankeryanker56
Joined: 12/20/2011
Msg: 15
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/25/2012 2:49:12 PM
Women need to be raise to have sex for all the enjoyment that it brings. This is more nurture than nature. Disney needs to start writing their prince charming stories differently.

If they feel that having sex with someone entitles them to something more, then that is on them.

If they want forever, then they need to ask the man they are with if they are wanting forever too.

Don't have casual sex if you are going to cry foul after. It is not the guys fault. Preaching to the choir.
 JDinMN
Joined: 2/12/2012
Msg: 16
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Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/25/2012 3:19:45 PM
Psuedo science at its finest. Incomplete at best. It took me longer to read the 1st post than to chart out the root cause.

Premise = Casual sex -> Depression

Have to go down a level. For example. Expectations -> Casual sex -> Depression

Their expectations are something Beyond casual.

Beyond casual sex <> casual sex = disconnect between expectations and reality.

This is what causes the depression. One could take it even further and delve into where those expectations come from, like societal norms, media, upbringing. etc. I personally don't believe it is a biological phenomenon. Males also produce plasma oxytocin before, during, and a bit after sex.

Carolann said the same thing essentially and is right on the mark. I just couldn't find a way to incorporate the phrase 'first thrust' into my answer.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 17
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/25/2012 3:24:29 PM
Part and parcel of any action, is recognizing not only your own actions, but what you get out of it, and what part the other person plays.

There are many reasons for depression, some of them have been listed here already. We have evolved into a culture of, for want of a better word "aloneness". We equate texting, email, video games, among other examples with social interaction, when none of them actually provides physical contact with another.

FWB, is an interesting concept(not for me, but maybe for others) The operative parts of this, of course is "benefits", benefits can only be plural when both benefit. The word "friends" implies more than just sleeping together, along with the benefits part.

People who seek out casual sex, usually want that, and not the attendent things that come with it. Far more often, people seem to slip into an FB situation which started as a FWB, without saying a word.

There are all kinds of women out there. Some are OK with casual sex, some are very independent and OK with casual sex to a degree. Some women should never engage in sex unless in a relationship. Others just go with the flow and allow peer pressure or someone else to lead them a conclusion that is totally inappropriate for the person they are.

Somewhere in all of this, comes what you see as neccessary for you. Not only does this apply to sex, but to overall criteria of who a woman wants. Guy A may offer all she wants in the total relationship arena, guy B offers none of that, but is much more desirable, in terms of attractiveness. Most women, no different than most men, opt for guy B. It's a choice and they have every right to make it.

They then don't get to lay blame for buying the wrong relationship, at the feet of other men.

In the end, people need to spend more time thinking about what they want or need, and less time thinking how hawt a guy or gal is. But society, TV, friends and classmates are there to prod you in the direction of doing whats bad for you, rather then what you need or is good for you.

JMHO, hope this made sense.
 infennario
Joined: 5/24/2011
Msg: 18
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/25/2012 3:28:21 PM
Women need to be raise to have sex for all the enjoyment that it brings.


And men need to be raised to... what? Nothing said by Grossman indicates that women don't enjoy sex. Only that they do not enjoy of life and relationships that are only sex or primarily sex. It's not enough. (For lots of men, too.) Nah, let women be women and men be men.

What Dr. Grossman concludes makes perfect sense to me and it fits with what I’ve seen. I think that its probably more than oxytocin, though, such as the way females, even little girls, typically connect and build relationships, too.

Cause or effect- who cares? Correlation is sufficient to decide to live differently. If you do something repeatedly and happen to feel bad afterwards, it’s wise to eliminate that behavior, if for no other reason than to determine if you do feel better. Just so happens that every woman I’ve known has felt much better once she quits entering fwb/fb situations. Fwb/fb relationships are like fast food- you do get sick if you live on it for too long and you sure aren't nourished. But I think that's true for men and women.

In the older age group- not bitterness so much as discernment. Many women would just prefer to have no relationship with a man at all, than to have sex with men who appear to have little potential for the love, mutual emotional connection and support and caring that truly satisfies. It's the "don't settle" argument.
 lotustemple
Joined: 10/23/2011
Msg: 19
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/25/2012 3:44:04 PM
This is a no-brainer and it amazes me that people don't know how destructive casual sex can be. All it took was once for me to feel like my heart had been ripped out, and a week to recover emotionally from a tryst with a guy from out of town. I thought a little sex would take off the edge of being inbetween boyfriends. Wow was i ever wrong. Sex engages us on so many profound levels.....but i admit to being the sensitive type and i know many don't "feel" beyond the surface. But whether or not they feel it at the time, damage is done IMO.

Has nothing to do with expectations. This is psysiological response that moves right into the emotional and spiritual realms.

Casual sex is a dangerous behavior of the highly insensitive and those emotionally shut down. It breeds dis-ease on many levels not just STD's.

Don't take my word for it.....Vietnamese Buddhism has volumes written on this very subject. At the least, they say it depletes the life force.
 Meems919
Joined: 2/16/2012
Msg: 20
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/25/2012 3:45:25 PM
Anything can be linked to anything in any study....there is a predisposition to interpret as one wishes.....I can prove and disprove anything with the same "studies"......
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 21
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Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/25/2012 3:50:42 PM
The Dr explains how during sexual behavior the woman releases a hormone called Oxytocin, which is also released during nursing a baby, that promotes closeness and trust. It's a biochemical human attachment.

I find it interesting to note that what the doctor neglects to include (in a gender biased sort of way) is that men also release the hormone Oxytocin during orgasm as well as Vasopressin, as do women. It's made to sound as though it's only women and that the effects stay with a woman, thus creating a long term effect.

The women are engaging in sex just prior to the highest volumes of both hormones being released, as are the men. The women's depression is likely caused more by making poor choices about who they choose to sleep with in combination with other external pressures in varying degrees. That there are now more females than ever engaged in post-secondary education (which in itself would increase the numbers being treated) and working and away from home and and and, all at the same time, is likely more a matter of a compound effect with respect to depression, rather than blaming the same hormonal release that men experience during sex.

I also dislike the way it's made to sound as though it's only women looking for love and lasting relationships. One has only to read the forums to know that's not true.

I do agree that whether on a campus level or lower, people in all walks of life should be counselled more about all facets of relationships and interaction with others. Blaming hormones is an easy out for poor decision making.
 LathaMath
Joined: 1/30/2012
Msg: 22
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/25/2012 3:55:04 PM
Whatever else it does, it sells books.

Depression can be psychiatric (chemical) or psychological (attitude). The argument here is that it's chemical, caused by an elevation of Oxytocin. However sexual activity also releases Dopamine, the pleasure hormone, what cocaine releases. Because humans are not very fertile Mother Nature keeps the level of dopamine in the body high for about 90 days after intial sexual congress to keep the pair doing it again and again to improve chances of conception. That's what puts the twinkle in the eyes and the bounce in the step. After the 3 month honeymoon hormone levels drop and partners tend to split up. The drop in nice feeling hormones probably causes temporay reduction in mood.

OTOH women with low self esteme can be an easy lay. Unloved girls will look for love in lovers. These conditions can also be depressing, not caused by sexual activity.

I recall reading about studies which showed bipolar disorder most frequently starts in young adulthood, just when people are at univeristy studying. It's an age thing, nothing to do with sexual activity.

You pays your money and you takes your pick.

I would not be one to rush to blame depression on sex. If anything the opposite. I have seen the mood of young women elevate noticably when they meet someone special. The very exsitence of this site leads me to think that is the case. Hope springs eternal. Depression is the absence of hope.
 Tankeryanker56
Joined: 12/20/2011
Msg: 23
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/25/2012 4:01:43 PM
It's the "don't settle" argument.
-This is all that I am saying. Men seem to like to have sex because it feels good and that is it. Why would women expect more from sex? If they do not want to have casual sex then they shouldn't. They should not settle.
 FixedVariable
Joined: 10/17/2010
Msg: 24
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Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/25/2012 4:07:33 PM
Oh, of course it is.

If it's written down somewhere, it must be true.
 ChancesRMD
Joined: 4/11/2009
Msg: 25
Casual sex linked to depression
Posted: 3/25/2012 4:17:55 PM

The Dr explains how during sexual behavior the woman releases a hormone called Oxytocin, which is also released during nursing a baby, that promotes closeness and trust. It's a biochemical human attachment


I'm not seeing what this has to do with casual sex verses sex inside of a relationship. If it's a chemical reaction during sex, wouldn't the same thing happen if they were married?
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