| | Socially Constructed Idea of RacePage 1 of 5 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5) | I keep noticing something and it has made me wonder, why is it that in this day and age we still categorize people on the idea "race"? The reality is there is only ethnical and cultural difference between different Homo sapiens, yes there is different skin color due to genetic mutation because of environmental reasons, but why do we still think there are races?
The word ‘race’ has been changed to fit our new definition of it but before it meant basically a subspecies that wont naturally interbreed due to biologically not wanting to. This was due to Europeans wanting to establish superiority over other cultures during a time when they were expanding their reach, so they changed that term to mean different physical characteristics. This was a psychological thing because it allowed them to feel like they were not slaving or killing another human being, but a different species.
We have come far from those times but we are still using that term, which I don’t think is helping society that much since it creates categories for people of the same species. What do you think? Is this hindering society? Or do you think this term should be applied? | |
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| Socially Constructed Idea of Race
Posted: 3/26/2012 5:58:54 PM | | Because we are products of evolution in which each specie has a classification, lmao. Example, Polar bear, brown bear, black bear and so on. Can't have your cake and eat it as well my godless comrades. In the political correct world we live in it's unpopular, i.e. racist to categorize humans in such away and yet the very same people who claim such have no problem perpetuating racism towards bears. I can't imagine why because were all one happy evolutionary family aren't we. | |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 7:07:06 PM | A couple of things:
It actually is not known to be true, that differences in things like skin color has anything to do with an evolutionary response to environmental factors. That is a left over myth, like many we have to cope with. It is more likely that groups of humans became separated by environmental factors (mountains and deserts and such), and evolved independently, only by chance becoming so different looking from each other.
And that brings us to the best answer to your question. the reason why we still talk about race, and categorize people with it, is because there is always a long time delay between people starting to learn about reality, and people's culture and historic background catching up.
It's a little like water sloshing back and forth in a big tub, in a way. If the tub is rocking back and forth, the water sloshes from end to end. If the tub stops rocking (a new understanding!), the water keeps sloshing for a log time after, as it adjusts itself to the new reality of a still tub.
Society's response to things like race, gender, sexual orientation, and so forth is a very much more complicated version of that. For example, race used to play such a large role in deciding where people belonged, that the entire structure of our society was adjusted around it. When the races were suddenly declared equal, the entire rest of society had to be rebuilt to the new specifications. In addition to going too far in some ways, it caused tremendous confusion to all the people who had grown up knowing who and what they were, based on their race. Their struggle to find a new equilibrium and sense of place, was like a rocking tub. Today, we still have lots of people on both sides, who are either over-sensitive to having been treated badly as children; or who grew up expecting to be in top when their turn came, only to find that the turn taking has been cut off; and plenty of people who feel that they are being asked to pay for transgressions committed by those who came before.
In short, it will take many many generations of adjustments for the "water" to stop sloshing. | |
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| Socially Constructed Idea of Race
Posted: 3/26/2012 7:21:02 PM | The answer to your question is ^^^that guy^^^
Well don't be so quick. Are you insinuating that you see no correlation?. We are taught from the time we enter school to decipher things according type, color, shapes and so on. If you placed a black bear next to a white bear and asked your children to describe what they see, they wouldn't say bears. They would say a black bear and a polar bear.
What you're asking is for people to forget about what they were educated and trained to do. The fact of the matter is humans as far as the scientific biological tree and science is concerned are the only specie not categorized appropriately and as all others are. If you were to remove the ideological and political correctness implications , it would be appropriate to distinguish between black, white and so on.
This is the difference between ideological race and biological race. Example, you want to teach evolution to every student in the United States but yet you want them to forget about evolution when it comes to humans. Suddenly you don't want those same principles to apply. Suddenly, humans aren't apart of the animal world. Suddenly ideology and political correctness trumps science. | |
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| Socially Constructed Idea of Race
Posted: 3/26/2012 7:48:21 PM | You should read up on bears
http://www.bearplanet.org/
I can save you some time if you like, polar bears and black bears are different species.
Why?
Read up on species and breeds
http://animals.about.com/od/s/g/species.htm
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/breed - (scroll down to the noun definition, the verb breed is irrelevant)
I'll save you the time, polar bears and black bears cannot produced fertile offspring in their natural habitat. Humans can, regardless of skin colour.
And read up on Nazi Eugenics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_eugenics
And then realize we are not children and that the crap you spread (like your post above) helps prevent people from being properly educated. | |
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| Socially Constructed Idea of Race
Posted: 3/26/2012 7:48:42 PM | It wasn't "that guy" ... it was THESE two guys ... blame them ...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.tutorvista.com/content/biology/biology-iii/living-organisms/carolus-linnaeus.php
Carolus Linnaeus
He made an attempt to classify living organisms to two kingdoms - the plant kingdom and the animal kingdom. He divided each of these kingdoms into smaller groups called classes. Each class was split into orders. Each order was divided into genera and each genus into many species. Each of these groups was formed on the basis of certain specific morphological features. He described about 5,000 species of plants in his famous book Genera Plantarum. Similarly, he listed about 4,300 species of animals. He published his scheme of natural classification in the book Systema Naturae. His system of classification provided a firm basis for modern taxonomy.
This system of classification is used even today with some additions and modifications. The modern classification has units that are described under Linnaean hierarchy.
Another significant contribution from Linnaeus is the system of binomial nomenclature wherein Linnaeus initiated the idea of giving a scientific name to every plant and animal species. He proposed the idea of giving a scientific name consisting of two words - the first word describing the name of the genus and the second word describing the name of the species. He suggested that such a system would avoid confusion created by the use of vernacular names given to the plants or animals. This system has found universal acceptance today.
http://www.accessexcellence.org/RC/AB/BC/Gregor_Mendel.php
Gregor Mendel
Mendel, the first person to trace the characteristics of successive generations of a living thing, was not a world-renowned scientist of his day. Rather, he was an Augustinian monk who taught natural science to high school students.
The impact of genetic theory is no longer questioned in anyone's mind. Many diseases are known to be inherited, and pedigrees are typically traced to determine the probability of passing along an hereditary disease. Plants are now designed in laboratories to exhibit desired characteristics. The practical result of Mendel's research is that it not only changed the way we perceive the world, but also the way we live in it. | |
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| Socially Constructed Idea of Race
Posted: 3/26/2012 7:51:16 PM | @Best
This is the difference between ideological race and biological race. Example, you want to teach evolution to every student in the United States but yet you want them to forget about evolution when it comes to humans. Suddenly you don't want those same principles to apply. Suddenly, humans aren't apart of the animal world. Suddenly ideology and political correctness trumps science.
^  so true! And this is typical of the PC crowd. When it comes to humans on different evolutionary paths; they suddenly clam up and come out with simplistic drivel such as "Oh, we are all the same on the inside". | |
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| Socially Constructed Idea of Race
Posted: 3/26/2012 8:05:51 PM | You should read up on bears
http://www.bearplanet.org/
I can save you some time if you like, polar bears and black bears are different species.
Why?
Read up on species and breeds
http://animals.about.com/od/s/g/species.htm
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/breed - (scroll down to the noun definition, the verb breed is irrelevant)
I'll save you the time, polar bears and black bears cannot produced fertile offspring in their natural habitat. Humans can, regardless of skin colour.
And read up on Nazi Eugenics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_eugenics
And then realize we are not children and that the crap you spread (like your post above) helps prevent people from being properly educated.
Well you see, that's where your wrong. I'll let you slide on the evolution implications of what you just said because I don't think you can fit anymore feet into your mouth. Some bears can mate with other bears. Obviously you know this because you specifically only mentioned polar bear and black bear. I only indicated those two species for color reference
I keep telling you people don't post links that your not educated enough to understand. You just make yourselves look like idiots as in the case above. Science has purposely created all kinds divisions for political correctness and ideological reasons haven't they. Is that so hard for you people to admit?. | |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 9:04:45 PM | Wow, …you go away from a forum for a while and come back to see the collective IQ nosedive.
When did this happen?
Did all the smart people get banned, …or just drift away do to too much d'uh?
Damn! | |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 9:28:18 PM | Wow, …you go away from a forum for a while and come back to see the collective IQ nosedive.
When did this happen?
Did all the smart people get banned, …or just drift away do to too much d'uh?
Damn!
Yep, and apparently your the only hippie genius left, lmao. | |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 9:55:14 PM | Nah, as far as I know this guy is an extremely recent development.
Too much reality huh. You need me to fetch an Exorcist priest before your head starts spinning in a 360 while your spitting up green pea soup?. | |
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| Socially Constructed Idea of Race
Posted: 3/26/2012 10:26:03 PM |
Too much reality huh. You need me to fetch an Exorcist priest before your head starts spinning in a 360 while your spitting up green pea soup?.
That comment was a bit off topic. I supose it is in reference to my comment referring to kohmelo's reference of the Dethklok song "Awaken" in the "to god or not to god" thread.
I hope that wasn't to confusing for you. What am I saying, of course it was.
Stay on topic man. Your doing a great job.
*literaly laughs his ass off* I love when they take it so literal. | |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 11:16:26 PM | Personally, when people ask me my ethnic background I always say Mammalian.
Ever see a beaver dam? My people made that!
Not like those lazy good-for-nothing reptiles. | |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 11:36:03 PM | That comment was a bit off topic. I supose it is in reference to my comment referring to kohmelo's reference of the Dethklok song "Awaken" in the "to god or not to god" thread.
I hope that wasn't to confusing for you. What am I saying, of course it was.
Stay on topic man. Your doing a great job.
*literaly laughs his ass off* I love when they take it so literal.
Who knows. All you people do is provide childish commentary. It doesn't matter which thread . In short, your punks that travel around the threads and post punkish comments in retaliation for being weighed, measured and found wanting. Nothing new here pal. | |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 11:43:12 PM | Bestdateyet:
(Off topic)
What you are experiencing in these threads is in direct relation to everybody being fed up with your nonsense. | |
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Posted: 3/26/2012 11:52:42 PM | What you are experiencing in these threads is in direct relation to everybody being fed up with your nonsense.
Who's everybody?, you, simpletons like you and a couple of fake profiles ?. Dude, you need another hit of the crack pipe. | |
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| Socially Constructed Idea of Race
Posted: 3/27/2012 7:36:52 AM |
I keep noticing something and it has made me wonder, why is it that in this day and age we still categorize people on the idea "race"? The reality is there is only ethnical and cultural difference between different Homo sapiens, yes there is different skin color due to genetic mutation because of environmental reasons, but why do we still think there are races?
The outmoded concept of 'race' is by no means universal - how powerful it is probably relates to either the quality of science teaching in any particular country or the direct ideological control any particular government might maintain over what is, or isn't, taught in the nations classrooms. Or both.
So, to answer your question, some people still think there are 'races' because that's what they were taught and (for whatever reason) they haven't discovered they've been misled.
I note you are from the US, so you should be aware the quality of science teaching in the US is... um... less than ideal?
In the latest ranking of student performance in science among 15-year-olds, compiled by the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development, the United States ranks 36th.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-m-gentile/improving-science-teachin_b_213165.html
How could America rank in the bottom third among developed nations in terms of student performance, yet we spend more per capita than virtually any other nation?
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/mzuckerman/articles/2011/01/14/best-and-brightest-teachers-key-to-solving-us-education-crisis
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=trust-me-im-a-scientist
http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/03/denial-science-chris-mooney
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/6b989370-164a-11e1-a691-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1qJxwVVJ1
You would be aware, no doubt, of the American Anthropological Association Statement on 'Race' issued in 1998 to the effect that 'race', as applied to homo sapiens, is a purely social construct and is scientifically meaningless, which point has been reiterated by various related bodies at various times over the period since? Yet many people still reject it despite that there's no evidence to support a biological concept of 'race'. | |
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Posted: 3/27/2012 8:42:31 AM | | that a great question and it should be addressed by a so called civilized society. Race is important to discuss but it is really a smoke screen because the people of European decent who advance this ideal tend to be economically disenfranchised and instead of them looking to the White elites who are exploiting them, they choose to blame everybody else. That is pure cowardice, the masses are the working class poor and the wealthy make their money off of our labor. White supremacy is one of the strongest forces in the world and why? Because people have no faith or very little faith. If one believes in superior or inferior human beings then they do not understand one single thing about the concept of one supreme GOD. El-Hajj Malik El Shabbazz aka Malcolm X said that Sunday is the most segregated day i Amerikkka and it stands true even today. There are many people who will bring sexual orientation into this domain and they are completely out of bounds, one has absolutely nothing to do with the other. Once again White supremacy is so powerful, they question GOD. | |
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Posted: 3/27/2012 1:21:28 PM |
it would be appropriate to distinguish between black, white and so on.
No more than to distinguish between red-haired people and blond-haired people for purposes of identification, eh? | |
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Posted: 3/27/2012 2:48:04 PM | There is no such thing as race. That isn't PC, that is science. The very concept of race requires clear, distinct differences where you could point to one person and say that they belong to this one clear race, and another person belongs to another clear race, etc. This does not exist with humans; there are no human subspecies. The few traits typically used to define "race" amongst humans (skin colour being the main one) form a continuous line from very pale skin to very dark skin, with no clear lines or divisions between them. Obviously there are clear differences in human appearance between people from different parts of the world, but these differences do not support the concept of race. Skin colour, height, facial shape, and other things typically used to define "races" are caused by very minor, small mutations that are closely tied with local environment. And of course very few human populations have ever been truly isolated for any length of time (in an evolutionary sense, as in enough time to develop into a different subspecies or race) so genes have always flowed quite readily throughout the world, keeping us as one big race.
What's really interesting, though, is that prior to the 19th century there really was no concept of race, period. It was only when Europeans really began exploring and classifying the world according to extremely rigid classification schemes that the concept of race was developed (and there were only five races identified), and it was of course furthered because it was very handy for Colonial Europeans to claim that they were the only race advanced enough to rule and to form civilization.
So yeah, racism certainly exists, but race is a scientific fallacy. As lyingcheat said, the AAA statement on race is quite an excellent read, written in a time when the AAA was still a scientific institution and based on the accumulated data of many great minds (I've added the link to it below). But don't blame the U.S. school system for failing to question the very foundations and idea of race. I'm Canadian and it was only in a 2nd year biological anthropology course that I first heard the argument that I have outlined above, and most people never take any anthro courses, let alone more advanced ones (but they should, because anthropologists are awesome).
http://www.aaanet.org/stmts/racepp.htm | |
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Posted: 3/27/2012 4:19:41 PM | No more than to distinguish between red-haired people and blond-haired people for purposes of identification, eh?
Sure that's a good example. In crime, what good would it do to describe to the police that a human being about 6'4" broke into the house,lmao. Why people want to leave color/race out of it is because of ideological purposes. We know that people of a certain color by percentage of the population overwhelmingly commit most of the violent crime. That's what this is all about. Political correctness so we can continue to stick our heads in the sand. | |
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Posted: 3/27/2012 4:31:06 PM | | People from certain communities commit more crime, yes. That has nothing to do with the colour of their skin (again, call me a liberal socialist PC person (I take pride in those things), but the facts are the facts). Poverty, lingering racism, decreased opportunities, and a whole host of other social issues are the cause of high crime rates. Those things have nothing to do with the colour of a person's skin. Wind the clock back on someone who is in prison and let that same person grow up in a completely different context and they will not be the same person or do the same things at all. Basically, most of our modern problems relate to colonialism and its lingering effects (not that colonialism has gone away). | |
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Posted: 3/27/2012 4:31:18 PM | When I started reading responses at the begining of this I was feeling disheartened that people were making statements that was showing the lack of education on the idea of race when it comes to Homo sapiens, but by the end of the many post I started to feel a little better.
Bestdateyet: Bears of other species do not interbreed naturally, just like tigers and lions don’t breed naturally as well but we have a liger all the same but it is sterile, because it is not natural to the way of nature. Now Homo sapiens, regardless if they are of Africa, Asian, Native American or European decent can breed together, produce fertile children who then can also breed. They naturally do this without the intervention of science. Yes we do classify everything, it happens, but do we need to classify humans and make different subspecies? That is the big thing, the idea of subspecies. We all have evolved from Homo erectus and the other amazing Homo genus and we are still evolving (such as people are getting taller, there is more genetic variation going on, and the like). But the issue is that there isn’t different species within Homo sapiens.
Igor: (love the name by the way) When I was talking about environmental factors I was talking about the pigmentation of the skin, which has been said in recent physical anthropological articles as being caused from the body trying to protect the skin and the production of vitamin D and stuff. Lighter skin is good for the northern regions because we don’t get much sun, while in southern regions they are typically darker due to the overexposure to sunrays. I do agree that the issue is the lack of cultural understandings when it comes to education. In the U.S. we spend so much time on European and American history we don’t learn much of Africa, Asia, or even South America/Central America.
Lying: Sadly I do know the issue is the American education system, but it isn’t just America. When I was dating a Russian he dumped me because my sister is dating an African-American guy. That surprised me but I also realized it was a cultural difference between the two of us, I believe there is no subspecies and he did, just a simple fact. I take it in and around Australia it isn’t as bad?
Gwen: I agree, one might as well do that.
Thorondor: I agree Anthropologist rock! But I am biased since I am an Anthropologist major =). The idea of race is recent and it seems to be clinging on as time keeps going. If schools would teach more on this issue in Middle school or High school it might help the everyday person to have a better understanding that race is not real. We are all one species with minor genetic variation and that is all. | |
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