| | Afterlife vs. AgnosticPage 1 of 2 (1, 2) | I have been agnostic about the existence of "god" for many years now, though, I do believe in an afterlife. I believe that the energy that exists within us in this life, continues to exist in another dimension or realm when we leave the human realm.
One thing that still makes me wonder about the existence of "god" is paranormal/spiritual entities reaction to god references; the bible, holy water, the Christian Cross, etc., in cases like hauntings and "posessions". Could it be that the entity ("ghost") believed in god when they were in the human realm, therefor, that belief continues in the spiritual realm?
Even with entities that were never in the human realm ("demons"). Could they be reacting to "holy" intervention simply because they perceive it as a positive force ( because those intervening believe) and it is contrary to their own negative energy or "dark force"? | |
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| Afterlife vs. Agnostic
Posted: 5/26/2012 8:13:40 AM | | Sounds as though you are ready to start writing your own set of mythology to answer those questions. I suspect that all existing commonly known mythology was generated exactly the same way. Someone started from what they already believed, and added to it using logic that depended on the initial assumptions/beliefs. When they managed to convince someone powerful enough, their stories/explanations got turned into an official Religion. | |
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| Afterlife vs. Agnostic
Posted: 5/26/2012 8:32:10 AM | +1 Igor
IF someone believes in "afterlife", it is very feasible they may find your theories believable. Someone who does not believe in "afterlife" may think the theories are good (or not so good) fiction. | |
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| Afterlife vs. Agnostic
Posted: 5/26/2012 9:36:38 AM | | I wonder about this myself sometimes, it's a good ponder, lol. My conclusion is that none of us really will know for sure until we actually get there, wherever it may be :) | |
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| Afterlife vs. Agnostic
Posted: 5/26/2012 1:17:57 PM | Windchymes,
I think my pondering has to do with knowing what to be ready for when we get there. Isn't that the true essence of many people's belief in god (faith); that they'll be ready for whatever life after death has in store because they believe god will take care of them? I'm wondering what to do if I have to take care of myself... if there will be more decisions to be made? | |
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| Afterlife vs. Agnostic
Posted: 5/26/2012 1:25:38 PM | Igor,
Isn't that what we all do? Create our own mythology or decide which one to follow? Many to choose from. Actually though, my post is one big question... not one big answer. | |
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| Afterlife vs. Agnostic
Posted: 5/26/2012 7:31:46 PM | | have u ever sean a ghost or a demond.? much less sean how thay act to holy water or crosses.... i doubt u have.. i havent so ur just takeing others word for it.. | |
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| Afterlife vs. Agnostic
Posted: 5/27/2012 2:31:07 AM |
I believe that the energy that exists within us in this life, continues to exist in another dimension or realm when we leave the human realm.
Of course it does...
The energy of our body passes back into the ecosystem of the Earth through those organisms which consume our bodies after we die. We cease to exist on this plane and pass back into another plane.
I suggest you study Hinduism, they love talking about this sort of thing. | |
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| Afterlife vs. Agnostic
Posted: 5/27/2012 3:43:27 AM | Nipoleon,
Speaking of Hinuism, or any other religion other than Christian/Judaism; I wonder how they confront paranormal/spiritual "disturbances"? Obviously, a Hindu, or say, Muslim, is not going to face such disturbances with the bible and holy water. | |
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| Afterlife vs. Agnostic
Posted: 5/27/2012 1:46:47 PM | Everything outside of Christian theology was labelled a demon.
Other spiritual paths see such phenomena as either positive or negative.
And mostly to be avoided if possible. | |
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| Afterlife vs. Agnostic
Posted: 5/29/2012 12:20:39 PM | These questions remind me of the movie "Stand By Me" where the kids have a discussion about who would win in a fight... Superman or Mighty Mouse. One kid speaks up "Mighty Mouse is just a cartoon... Superman'sa real Guy!". to which another kid replies "Yeah, I suppose... but it would be a good fight though!"
I've had similar discussions as a youth and until this day... How does spider-man deal with telephone wires? Answer? He doesn't. There is NO SPIDERMAN. If A vampire has "no breath", how can they talk? Answer? They don't. There ARE NO VAMPIRES.
You may as well ask how a Muslum would deal with a vampire. Could they create water to burn one? this would be a perfectly legitimate question if Vampires have been observed to be burnt by christian holy water but unaffected by unblessed water. However, since this has never actually been observed in reality, there is no need to ask logistical questions on anything else. There are no vampires to throw any water at anyway, holy water or not.
You have very good questions of logistics. I would have them too if ghosts and demons or other "supernatural" things were observed in reality to be affected by things liek holy water and the bible. But they haven't outside of literature and fiction. If they HAVE, and have been studied and proven to react to holy water, just do the same test again with muslim water and you'll have yrou answer. That's why science is great. You just never know until you try it out.
If you're just assuming ghosts and other "supernatural" things exist based on you own personal beliefs, just go the extra step and simply make up any answer that best suits your belief. Maybe only the bible and holy water work or maybe Muslims, hindu's etc., have their own solution. Who knows... but if you see these easy answers as problems and feel the need to question them, then go the extra step and go back and ask the same questions about ghosts themselves... if you're inconsistent on when and what you question, you'll continue coming up with these conflicts. If you're consistent, it will probably all start to make sense. | |
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| Afterlife vs. Agnostic
Posted: 5/30/2012 8:57:21 AM | I cannot see why anyone would believe in an afterlife, nothing about it makes any sense.
All energy from the body is spent upon death, have you not seen dead animals twitching and convulsing!
There is no excess energy. We are products of our brain!
This is set in stone for me as i am schizophrenic, a disease of the brain, it means i am not the person i was growing up. It changed me forever. If a disease of the brain can change you as a person, any idea of "you" and your "identity" is blatantly shown to be created by the brain. If there is an afterlife (and lets hope theres not!) would i be me as i am now, affected by an illness, or would i be the me i was before the onset of the disease?
I would not want to go back to the person i was before, i am a better person for having the illness funnily enough.
Despite being a skeptic, i still do hypnosis for the sakes of past life regression in friends. It has always intrigued me how so many seem to coincide with each other, however, while they may believe that it is a sign of reincarnation i personally see it as an interesting form of role-play therapy, i do not give it any credence despite the often eerily perfect factual statements given about the period of time. | |
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| Afterlife vs. Agnostic
Posted: 5/30/2012 10:14:12 AM | Alzheimer's disease is probably the only proof you'll ever need that there is no afterlife.
This wretched disease eats away at a persons brain to the point that the person you knew and loved slowly disappears, bit by bit.
This disease also shows that you are is your memories, your personality is derived from your memories and your ability to recall them.
All memories are just grown synapses in the brain that connect neurons and when you die these quickly break down......so, no memories = no you. When you're gone you're gone.
True, all the energy that makes up you has been here since the 'big bang' and will continue to the end of time yet there is very little chance that this energy will reconstitute in the same form to make another you.
So, my advise is to stop wondering about fairy tales and live in the real world.
Be the best person you can be, cherish everyone, everything, every minuet and create some fantastic memories. | |
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| Afterlife vs. Agnostic
Posted: 6/2/2012 9:01:53 PM | I don't believe an afterlife.
The thought is good and comforting, obviously, but it doesn't make it true.
I can make an educated guess on what it is like to be dead.
Was anyone here ever afraid of the year 1850? Of course not. Nobody here was born at that time.
Everyone here has already spent most of their time 'dead' or 'unborn'. That's exactly what it will be like when you die.
Bhawk01 pretty much nailed it. There is no "spirit" to carry us on to the afterlife. Your "spirit" is actually just the brain. Once the brain dies, so does your 'spirit.' | |
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| Afterlife vs. Agnostic
Posted: 6/10/2012 1:16:30 PM | | I don't believe in the afterlife, which sometimes makes things difficult, having to deal with 'the absurd' in itself and in opposition to others' seemingly illogical/unproven beliefs. Ignorance of the absurd is bliss (and understandable). | |
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soicat
| | Joined: 5/17/2012
Msg: 16 | |
| Afterlife vs. Agnostic
Posted: 6/18/2012 8:01:26 AM |
Isn't that what we all do? Create our own mythology or decide which one to follow? Many to choose from. Actually though, my post is one big question... not one big answer.
Choosing from various belief systems is what educated moderns do, and it puts us at a huge disadvantage compared to those from traditional cultures who are typically given a roadmap to the afterlife which they learn from birth.
Even if we study the same "map" we'll encounter different things than them because our cultural references, expectations, beliefs, are not the same.
Incidentally, not believing in an afterlife doesn't prevent you from experiencing it any more than ignorance of scientific principles exempts uneducated persons from traditional cultures from experiencing the consequences of the application of those principles.
OP, at your - our? - age I can't think of a more prudent thing to ponder than what to expect after death and perhaps to prepare for it as best we can. | |
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| Afterlife vs. Agnostic
Posted: 6/18/2012 9:18:33 AM | | Well, I would say that if you believe in demons, dark forces, ghost and the paranormal.....you're just a Christian looking for place to happen! | |
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| Afterlife vs. Agnostic
Posted: 6/18/2012 6:56:53 PM | It's really odd to me how people still misunderstand what certain words mean...like agnostic, atheist, and religious. Words are symbols we use to represent concepts. You need to understand the concept correctly, but you need to use the right word too. The way to undermine people's understanding of things is to be tricky in how you use words in the first place. And the way to sabotage yourself, your own comprehension, without you even noticing it, is to not put enough thought (epistemological thought) into how you speak/think.
With all that said, here's the problem here - agnostic doesn't mean anything that makes it a choice of stance concerning being religious or not, belief or not, etc. If I were to ask someone if they were religious, and if so...religious in what way, or if they're just not religious...and they answered that they were agnostic, I'd say ok, you're agnostic, but you haven't answered my question. It's like telling me how high green is.
Atheist is what some people seem to think agnostic is. What you think agnostic is...is what atheist already is. And, unfortunately, atheist is not what you think it is. I just thought I'd put this out there, without more clarification because it never helps, and though I doubt many here will seriously and properly consider what I've said. | |
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| Afterlife vs. Agnostic
Posted: 6/18/2012 11:17:13 PM | OP, you're just substituting one form of magical thinking for another. This is based on a little bit of knowledge about physics and a little bit of knowledge about theology/mysticism.
There is NO evidence of ghosts, an afterlife, the ability of water to fight evil when a virginal male speaks latin, invisible birdmen that watch you get hit by the train, zombie carpenter/rabbis in the sky, or another plane of existence where my battery's energy goes when I drain it.
Magical thinking can be a hard habit to break. Just take comfort in knowing that you are less gullible with each passing day. | |
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| Afterlife vs. Agnostic
Posted: 6/19/2012 1:06:16 AM | I agree that there is no evidence of the afterlife, but I also tend to believe that there is some sort of "afterlife" or other dimension beyond this one. If you believe in angels/demons, then you can think of the "fall of angels" as the act of God dividing unity. It had nothing to do with rebellion, but with one thing (God) becoming many things.
I personally believe that everyone exists in a reality outside of this one where everyone is eternal. This reality is an illusion meant to allow people to experience differnet things. While you're here, you forget your true self. There is obviously no evidence for these beliefs, but they work for me. | |
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| Afterlife vs. Agnostic
Posted: 6/19/2012 6:39:14 AM | | I would never disrespect my Life by spending a nanosecond pondering any speculative notions of an afterlife. There's virtually an unlimited number of positive things I can do to make this Life better for myself, my family, my friends, my community, my nation and my planet. The day I start giving a shit about 'then' is when I'll know I have given up on 'now'. | |
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| Afterlife vs. Agnostic
Posted: 6/19/2012 7:04:24 AM | | Search the scriptures, the Bible. The King James version is good. There are a few other good versions that also relate back to the ancient texts. Stay away from the politically correct versions that were created by removing things that are an obvious effort to destroy the original meaning. The scriptures explain all you need to know about the afterlife and the spirit world. Over the years, there have been more than 70 points on which so-called science supposedly "proved" the scriptures to be wrong and to date, in every case, the false "science" has been proved to be wrong and the scriptures correct. God has promised to guide you with His Spirit and His Word as you slog your way through false christians and false doctrines, not to mention outright lies from heathens, atheists, and antichrists. There are a lot of earthly things that are true that are not mentioned in the scriptures. Deal with them as you will with your own mind. But nothing, I repeat NOTHING exists that can be proven to contradict the scriptures. And nothing should be elevated to the level of Christian doctrine that is not found therein. Holy water, for instance, is no where mentioned in the scriptures. Jesus has promised eternal life after the resurrection, to all who believe in Him. He also promises that you will be reunited with all friends and loved ones that have died in the faith. All others will be individually judged by Him according to their works. | |
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| Afterlife vs. Agnostic
Posted: 6/19/2012 11:48:25 AM |
Over the years, there have been more than 70 points on which so-called science supposedly "proved" the scriptures to be wrong and to date, in every case, the false "science" has been proved to be wrong and the scriptures correct.
I'm curious... what methods were used to prove the "false science" wrong and the sciptures correct?
And also, can you explain the difference between the "false science" and real science? Was it REAL science that proved the scipture correct? If so, that would be a fascinating paper to read. | |
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| Afterlife vs. Agnostic
Posted: 6/19/2012 1:51:28 PM |
there is very little chance that this energy will reconstitute in the same form to make another you.
Well given an infinite period of time, the expansion and contraction of the universe over and over and over and over again, the chances that you will exist again in another time is almost a certainty. While you are dead or unborn, time will pass by unnoticed to you. Even if it takes a trillion, trillion earth years from now, you are likely to have sentience again, maybe as you starting over your life, maybe as another entity. An infinite period of time and space makes the impossible a certainty.
And given that time may not exist at all . . and therefore the past, present and future all coexist, it is impossible that you ever die. For you will always exist, just as you were, are or will be in some sort of other dimension in time and space. | |
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| Afterlife vs. Agnostic
Posted: 6/19/2012 3:19:02 PM | disincarnate beings are said to have considerably closed-down
and limited sensory apparatuses and fitful access to memories
and lessons learned while they were incarnate.
Read Allan Kardec - he was a 19th century researcher into
the spiritual realm of disincarnate beings who interviewed
and cross-referenced 100s if not 1000s of disincarnate beings
through mediums and seances. What emerged was a series
of books describing a great range in terms of levels of
awareness, intelligence and reliability in disincarnate
beings.
I don't believe or not believe in this stuff. I've had many,
many experiences which opened my mind to the
possibilities. I don't think belief is relevant to the
question actually. You could however consider applying
your cognitive gifts to more material concerns. | |
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