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| | EUROPEAN ECONOMIC UNITY DOES NOT WORKPage 1 of 3 (1, 2, 3) | Published: 12:04am, 26th May 2012
Updated: 6:53pm, 26th May 2012
The Home Office is planning for a possible large increase in immigration from Greece and other European Union nations in response to the crisis in the euro, Theresa May has revealed.
The Home Secretary told The Daily Telegraph "work is ongoing" to deal with large movements of people in the event of the break-up of the single currency.
Should Greece leave the euro and go bankrupt, millions of people could lose their jobs and may look for work abroad. There are fears too of the contagion spreading to other weak eurozone countries.
Britain, as a non-eurozone country, may be seen as an attractive alternative.
Mrs May did not indicate the sort of response that was under consideration.
In normal circumstances the Government's hands are tied because EU nationals are largely entitled to live and work anywhere in the single market.
But she said the Government was "looking at the trends" on immigration from struggling European economies. She said there was no evidence of increased migration at present, adding that it was "difficult to say how it is going to develop in coming weeks".
Asked whether emergency immigration controls are under consideration, Mrs May said: "It is right that we do some contingency planning on this (and) that is work that is ongoing."
Prime Minister David Cameron cast doubt on the future of the euro last week when he warned the eurozone that it "either has to make up or it is looking at a potential break-up".
"That's the choice they have to make and it is a choice they can't long put off," he told the Commons.
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A generation and a half ago some half wit decided that it was a great idea if Europe became all cuddly and closer. At first it was about strengthening trade links but over the years these links became laws and the bureaucracy grew until that wonderful institution the "European Parliament" was formed. We could even vote for our own MEP who represented great chunks of Britain and he would help in decision making to make Europe a better, more prosperous place to live. Wow how could it get.....
Well of course initially it was just a small group of European countries that formed the European Economic community. They were countries that generally kept their financial house in order and rather like the Masonic lodge together they would cooperate to make sure each member did reasonably well. But in time those at the top decided that it would be even better if the EEC expanded and poorer less affluent countries were welcomed in with open arms. As the Soviet Union collapsed so Brussels blew kisses and hugged and rubber stamped new members.
Of course then some bright spark decides that we no longer need border controls because hey we are all such good buddies now we should all be able to live and work wherever we like in Europe. The fact that you had no skills and had as much knowledge of the English language as the average hamster mattered not - You were now entitled to come to England, claim benefits, have free or assisted housing and take full advantage of the welfare system created in the Uk after WW2. How good does it get!! I mean who cares about the poor saps in the UK that have paid taxes for years and national insurance - All that lovely dosh is there for everyone in this modern state of Europe to claim.
Just to make life easier we in Britain will print billions of leaflets in various European languages to help you claim benefits too :)
By the way fellow Europeans...Especially those of you in Eastern Europe IF you are kind enough to look for work and have some kind of trade we really dont mind at all if you tell our construction site foreman that you will accept half the going rate for doing building work, carpentry, plumbing, electrical work etc because it will help drive the wage bill down for all the bosses here and also keep our guys under the thumb - The fact that they may be driven on to the dole and in some cases to suicide ? Oh well you win some you lose some hey.
Hey I have a great Idea lets scrap all the European currencies!!! Lets all have the same one!! I mean who needs the frank, the mark, the schilling, the drachma, the zloty, the guilder etc etc- If we all have the same currency its going to make life so much easier isn't it. Oh hang on some of you countries have rather poor infrastructure and your government does tend to spend a bit recklessly ...Or rather your leaders do tend to like to milk the purse a bit and keep themselves looking good dont they ? ....Never mind its ok we will get the likes of the UK, France, Germany etc to throw lots and lots of money at you so we can all be the same :)
Hmmm those nasty Brits wont get rid of the pound and seem to think they have the right to question some of the decisions made in Europe - The fact that the major decisions taken in Europe are made by unelected Eurocrats who wouldnt know the price of a loaf of pint (sorry litre) of milk doesn't matter - I mean we are not important are we.
Oh Noooo Italy, Spain, Ireland, Greece not really coping well with all this Euro finance. Not really generating enough GDP as the rest of the buddies..Oh well they will all have to scale back and cut thousands of jobs, spending on hospitals, schools, education, housing etc etc... I mean ok the rest of Europe ( Meaning really France, UK and Germany) will chuck millions at them and hopefully that will mean everything will be smelling of roses in the garden of Europe again....Might mean a few million more of them out of work and of course they will really really need to get them cutbacks in spending sorted but HEYYYYYY come on think POSITIVE we have to think of the greater good.....Don't we?
Referendum for every voter in Europe to decide if the Euro should be scrapped ? ....Don't be sillyyyyyyyy!! I mean it really HAS worked hasnt it ? We are just having a few teething problems are we not? Don't tell me you dont think its possible to drag 3rd rate European economies to the same level as prosperous European countries !!! And anyway what do we do about all those poor Eurocrats who depend on our taxes to help fund their pensions, 2nd, 3rd homes, international travel, school boarding fees and designer clothes -- Just think how many staff will be thrown out of work and what do we do with all the limos and private jets ?
OMG Now Cameron has had a rush of blood to the head !!!!! He is actually saying that perhaps the Euro wasnt a good idea after all!!!! Even Angela Murky has said that IF Greece leaves the Euro then so be it but that naughty little country will have to sort its mess out itself if it dares do that - She isn't very happy is our Angela !!!
Guess what ?? neither is every freaking taxpayer that has funded this ridiculous crusade that has dragged Europe lemming like for thirty plus years towards a close knit unity no bugger ever wanted!!! Trade with Europe will always happen with or without the Euro. Each country though needs to get back to running its own affairs, controlling its own borders and putting the interests of its own people FIRST. Yes its great that you can travel round Europe on a tour bus and not have a bucket full of currencies and ok so perhaps its easier for companies to trade using the same currency but the fact is ITS NOT WORKING.
If I want to buy something online from the USA then I see what the exchange rate is - I can work out what its going to cost me in Sterling. Just as I can work out how much its costing me if I buy something in France, Germany or Greece. What I do know is in every country where the Euro has been introduced prices have rocketed.
I am interested to know what other Brits think......Especially as Europe is in such a state it looks like hoards of Spanish and Greek workers will be heading to our shores now - And as we HAVE to let them in, just how much effect is it going to have on our own already recession hit economy??? | |
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| EUROPEAN ECONOMIC UNITY DOES NOT WORK
Posted: 5/26/2012 2:27:44 PM | | I voted against joining all those years ago, and nothing that has happened during the intervening years has made me question that decision. | |
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| EUROPEAN ECONOMIC UNITY DOES NOT WORK
Posted: 5/26/2012 2:29:11 PM | Shallow though this may sound.................far too many words on the page
Ironically enough ...this message is apparently too short !! | |
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| EUROPEAN ECONOMIC UNITY DOES NOT WORK
Posted: 5/26/2012 2:33:17 PM | Politics is way outside the sphere of both my knowledge, and interest, but,, my personal thoughts are, things will only get worse, we`ve passed the point of no return by normal means, the only way to reverse the damage now, would be if one of the more extreme parties got into power and totally stopped immigration full stop, totally stopped the 100`s of millions a year in foreign aid, which more often than not, simply goes to pad out the pockets of corrupt politicians and officials, and rarely helps the people it was intended to help,
but, i dont see that happening, so, it will get worse. | |
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| EUROPEAN ECONOMIC UNITY DOES NOT WORK
Posted: 5/26/2012 3:48:42 PM | I m certainly not up to speed on lots of this, but it definitely leaves me with a real sense of unease, and I agree with welsh duck when he say it is likely to get worse.
I have never been that comfortable with the EU, nor some of the dictates it has made, and a lot of that has been to do with the fact that beyond Governments, and paper signing ceremonies, the every day person on the streets of each country has I would think in the main always perceived themselves as Greek, or French, or British. To then try to place us all united under the banner of the European Union, I could just never see that it was going to work, national identity is too strong, too different, and has different needs and priorities for that to have not really been the case.
Common ground, friendship, support, are the thing that European countries can offer each other, but on their own terms, when they are able, and not forced by the hand of Brussels...
I m sure there are many more complexities to it, and perhaps some of it has had worth, but from perhaps an everyday women on the street perspective thats how it seems to me. | |
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Posted: 5/26/2012 4:16:24 PM | I am interested to know what other Brits think......Especially as Europe is in such a state it looks like hoards of Spanish and Greek workers will be heading to our shores now - And as we HAVE to let them in, just how much effect is it going to have on our own already recession hit economy???
I think you pretty much covered everything.
However..
I would just like to add a few extra things.
EVERYBODY who wants to come here looking for work and benefits, should be forced to go Germany OR France and mess their economy and their benefit system up.
Somebody please post which two countries wanted to start the Euro… I really am wondering who they are (cough) were. | |
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| EUROPEAN ECONOMIC UNITY DOES NOT WORK
Posted: 5/26/2012 4:22:41 PM | The irony is that the UK economy would not survive without immigrants.
Many of us will also know Brits who have chosen to live and work abroad. Should these people be recalled to the UK? They are, after all, just hogging jobs in countries they don't belong to, right? | |
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| EUROPEAN ECONOMIC UNITY DOES NOT WORK
Posted: 5/26/2012 4:37:37 PM | Quote: The irony is that the UK economy would not survive without immigrants.
Rubbish.
It won't survive if the British people adopt that attitude. | |
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Posted: 5/26/2012 6:08:46 PM | Memories are very short historically. Poland was flatened by the Germans, France threw in the towel, Germany was defeated. Franco controlled Spain etc.etc. Somehow the UK held out mainly because we are an island. (just to name a few examples. Then suddenly we all become friends and forget the past and we are all buddies after helping rebuild their economies.
It is interesting that the Germans buy German cars, the French buy French cars , the Italians buy Italian cars and this lead to the demise of our original car industry . (besides other factors). Who buys BRITISH owned car companies cars ??
My main question is how is the UK economy surviving at all ?? As far as I can see everything from paint to sweets, breakfast cereals to cars, TVs to our water companies and steelworks are now owned by foreigners. So how do we survive ? | |
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Posted: 5/26/2012 8:09:39 PM |
Should Greece leave the euro and go bankrupt, millions of people could lose their jobs and may look for work abroad. There are fears too of the contagion spreading to other weak eurozone countries.
@OP
If your pple are that concerned about a big wave of immigrants stemming from bankrupcy in the Euro-zone then don't let them in when they knock on your door; it is that simple!
secondly, if the UK is that averse to the EU, then WTF are you still part of it?
It just seems to me that you just want the benefits of it, but don't want to have any of the risks!
IF the UK is content by just sitting on the side-lines then they should let those with real balls handle the current problem, and not just make empty statements from the stands | |
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Posted: 5/27/2012 12:34:58 AM | I'm not too sure what the OP means by "not working" but from my perspective every country who is a member of the EU has benefitted massively from membership both economically and socially. It is far too often forgotten just what a basket case the UK was when we were literally begging to be let in and that is reflected by the 2:1 vote in favour of joining all those years ago. Joining the EU, or EEC as it was then changed the UK from being much like Greece is today into being one of the top five economies in the world and the EU continues to this day to create hundreds of thousands of jobs and new businesses here in Britain every year.
The EU has also helped to bring about one of the longest periods without war ever seen on the European continent and successfully brought about regime change in many of the former USSR states for what has been a comparatively miniscule cost in both blood and treasure when compared to the same regime change in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere since. Each of those states has cost little more than €4bn to bring about sufficient change so that they all now easily meet the Copenhagen criteria which is a pre-requisite for membership and are all now compliant to international human rights laws and enjoy freedoms their citizens could only have dreamed about during their years under Soviet rule.
The Euro has also been a major success in that it is clearly the strongest currency in the world and it's current troubles have shown more than anything else that the countries of Europe, Britain soon to be included, are far better off when we stick together and share a common currency than we ever were / are with each nation having a separate and uncontrollable currency of their own. It will come as no surprise to see the UK adopt the Euro within a few short years and even sooner than that if Scotland votes for independence.
IMO, one of the most beneficial improvements the EU has brought about for it's members is the removal of internal borders between countries. Being free to roam where we wish to roam is a fundamental basic human right and the borders between member states are now, as they should be, little more than lines on a map that offer no more barrier to people wishing to cross them than those between the member states of the UK.
Whilst the current, highly over emphasised, problems in the EU are no doubt of some concern, mostly to the financial services sector and politicians, for most of us even the worst case scenario of Greece leaving the Euro will be the same damp squib that the Y2K Millenium bug was. IMO there will be little or no mass migrations of people from anywhere to anywhere, no more than there was when the borders first open up between East & West Germany or between any of the members, new or old, of the EU.
Troubles in the Eurozone and in the EU are being greatly exagerated as was the so-called near collapse of the world banking systems in order to distract people from the failings of politicians and the criminality of our banking and financial services sectors IMO. | |
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Posted: 5/27/2012 12:55:11 AM | | we already have a unemployment problem of our own,well in this weeks sun paper they are as usual taking all the credit for finding thousands of jobs on their roadshow, but if you look carefully they are nearly all service industry, and people from overseas wont be paying much tax as i think its about 9k or above before you pay, at our place we had polish plumbers, on 7 quid a hour, digs payed , 15 quid a day tax free expenses, plus minibus to site, flights payed every 10 weeks, main contractor will claim a large chunk in tax on expenses, workers will pay hardly any tax, as only short contracts. a friend of mine wanted to take a gift abroad for her friend something english, i said a ub40 | |
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Posted: 5/27/2012 1:28:44 AM | The English (whoever they may be these days) always have been xenophobic.
The train crash that is the EU was always likely to happen; my only slight surprise is that it doesn't seem to involve us and the French (yet).
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Posted: 5/27/2012 2:07:49 AM |
Referendum for every voter in Europe to decide if the Euro should be scrapped ?
The majority would vote to keep it. This is the strange thing about it all. Nobody wants to do what's necessary to keep it alive, but they don't want to lose it either. I have a feeling Germany will eventually buckle under the pressure and step up with a plan to save it. I don't think it will happen until Greece leaves though. The Germans won't mind paying to help Spain and Portugal out, but they resent helping the Greeks as they essentially scammed their way into it in the first place. | |
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Posted: 5/27/2012 2:10:08 AM | | These are quite early days and Europe have got the money and will to keep the monetary union going .The hiccups now will make it easier to sell political union. | |
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Posted: 5/27/2012 2:23:00 AM | Msg12
If we have free borders then why is m passport scanned every time I travel to France ?. Why is my registration number taken? Why can I bring back a washing machine without a problem from some hypermarket but if I dare to buy cheaper cigarettes in Belgium then the French can confiscate if over 200 per person when the UK import allowance per person in the UK is 3200 even though EU rules allow for goods in transit..
Why can French lorries (and others from all over europe) travel free on our motorways yet when abroad have to buy road tax again in some form of licence (vignette).
Why dont French cars pay road tax (yes they pay for autoroutes) but can be driven for up to 12 months in the UK without tax? If I go to Austria there are no concessions on road tax because our cars are taxed in the UK. Pay up and its expensive.
Somehow the EU which was meant to be a leveller regarding tax, equal opportunities for selling , 1001 rules to bring all products into line etc. does not work. Every country does exactly what it wants and the UK obeys EU rules. | |
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Posted: 5/27/2012 3:28:28 AM | The reason you have to show your passport or have restrictions placed upon your purchases OneOnOwn is because various countries, and particularly the UK, have opted for a number of opt outs allowed through negotiations. The checking of passports into and out of the UK is entirely a UK requirement demanded by our government who like to keep very close tabs on our population so that they know who you are, where you are going, when you will be back and what you buy or do not buy when you are there. They just like to feel that they are our masters and controllers and to know what we are up to. The checking of passports at points of entry and egress from the UK is one of the most pointless, expensive and un-necessary things we do as a country.
The EU has never been about tax harmonisation of any form which remains one of the few nationally determined criteria of EU member states. That's why a packet of fags here in the UK is £6 and the same cigarrettes, maniufactured by the same company costs as little as £1.50 in many other countries. It is the fear that the chancellor would lose vast amounts of money that we here chose to opt out of anything to do with tax controls or setting. The other thing you mention, the harmonisation of trade regulations and rules has indeed resulted in lots of laws being indroduced across the whole economic area, in fact the body of such legislation now numbers in excess of 80,000 such laws. Whilst this is undoubtedly over kill it is no different than the legislature here in the UK. Parliament is creating still hundreds of laws on an almost daily basis, most if not all created in exactly the same way as EU law is and many of which are just as worthless and ineffective as any of the EU ones. Having said that though they, the EU laws, are actually necessary so that people wishing to buy or sell across the economic area can have confidence that goods and services bought and sold have the same rights, protections and quality standards applied to them regardless of the country they are to be bought in or sold too. The laws are in actual reality no different to the many laws and rules that were previously put in place throught the adoption of inttiatives such as the British Standard Kite mark and QS9000 quality awards.
Every country does not do as it wants, the vast majority of laws and contracts are implemented by all members as if they were not then there would be no EU at all. As I said, there are opt outs, there is rule breaking and rule bending as there are in all things money related but on the whole the rules are applied fairly, obeyed by most and are a vital key in helping the European economic area in being the success story it has been, it still is and will continue to be for many years to come IMO.............. | |
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Posted: 5/27/2012 3:31:45 AM | European economic cooperation, through the EEC, EC and then EU, does work. The common market has improved life for all Europeans by boosting trade between our countries.
The Euro, however, is showing the strain of a fundamental flaw: you can't have economic policy without the ability to control the money supply. Manipulating inflation and interest rates by printing more or less money (or issuing bonds, more likely, but in essence the same thing) is something which governments all round the world use to stabilise economies, but Eurozone countries can't do that, because Euro inflation is controlled by the ECB and economic policy is made by national parliaments.
The founders realised this which is why the Euro had strict entry criteria – countries had to have similar economies and similar policies to deficit spending, inflation etc. But then those entry criteria were waived for Greece for political reasons. We're seeing the fallout from that now: Greece continued to deficit spend despite the Eurozone rules and now they're in a hole which they can't devalue their way out of because they don't control their currency.
There are two answers: full political federation to go with the common currency, or currency breakup, if not at the level of nations then at least at the level of groups of nations with similar economic policies and attitudes. (That would be roughly speaking South, North-West and East.) I doubt any European nation would vote for the first so the second seems inevitable ... though of course some politicians with vested interests will delay it as long as possible, possibly by throwing yet more euros into the Greek toilet. | |
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Posted: 5/27/2012 4:18:54 AM | I can't believe how many incorrect information (I am being polite, I wanted to write bullshits) some people wrote on this thread.
I am honestly flattered and shocked by some of the reply, I don't if some of you never been abroad or just saying things they heard from someone without doing a background research.
It is interesting that the Germans buy German cars, the French buy French cars , the Italians buy Italian cars and this lead to the demise of our original car industry . (besides other factors). Who buys BRITISH owned car companies cars ?? <- simply not true. UK has the highest nationalism about product, take a look had the things you buy, 80% of them are made in UK where in others european country (as Italy) all the company have been sold or relocated abroad. All of them. Plus, you have no idea how much other country citizen have paid and continue paying for those company.
Quote: The irony is that the UK economy would not survive without immigrants. Rubbish. <- simple take a look at how many british doctors you have, or pharmacists, to how many young people are willing to sacrifice their youth to challenging pathway. Good luck with that.
RobinMJ you are right. Probably a lot of countries would vote to stay with the euro, simply because the recession is so high and strong that if you divide now and leave single country alone they won't survive.
Why can I bring back a washing machine without a problem from some hypermarket but if I dare to buy cheaper cigarettes in Belgium then the French can confiscate if over 200 per person when the UK import allowance per person in the UK is 3200 even though EU rules allow for goods in transit.. <- cause tobacco, alcohol and other items have different state regulations, they are regulated by states where other items are sold by private companies.
Why dont French cars pay road tax (yes they pay for autoroutes) but can be driven for up to 12 months in the UK without tax? If I go to Austria there are no concessions on road tax because our cars are taxed in the UK. Pay up and its expensive. <- WRONG. 1st you can stay to a MAX of 9 months in UK with a foreign car without need to registered it here and 3 months abroad. If you need to do an MOT to your car or any of the service you need to go to your origin country. You need to pay road tax and insurance in your origin country.
.........Yet countries like South Korea and Taiwan have no immigration but far more growth then the UK. You have been told a lie. <- AHAHAH I can really see the young british generation giving up their weekend of extreme booze to work like the asian. LOL.
I agree that UK benefits scheme is a problem but it is not an immigrant problem. I honestly believe over the 70% of benefits are claimed by UK citizens simple too lazy to work or with serious alcoholism problem. If you work in UK and you pay tax here is really annoying seeing how the tax are wasted to pay alcohol to people that are healthy enough to work but simply can't be bother and decided to do kids as sport. It does not matter what your ethnicity is. | |
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Posted: 5/27/2012 4:35:37 AM | http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18226128
lloyds of london preparing for the collapse of the euro, which a few economics are predicting will happen with in a couple of years as the german people wont want to keep paying to bail out other countries, remember your history? what happened when the last time germany was under financial pressure ....
once greece leaves the other states will look at what happens and do the same thing, spain, portugual and would not be surprised if ireland and italy look at that option as well. | |
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Posted: 5/27/2012 4:50:56 AM | This is old news, people in the markets started preparing for mass immigration a moth ago. i.e. buying up stock in supply companies connected to public services.
They will not be doing anything to stop immigration, because the people that control it want to make money out of it.
Stop believing the BBC, they are a corrupt organisation run by raving lunatics. | |
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Posted: 5/27/2012 5:11:49 AM | | There's nothing wrong with the concept of the Euro. Having just one currency "does" make the economics easier because is saves time and simplifies financial exchange. The problem is not the Euro, but the policies of the countries having the current problems. Too much spending, debt obligation, and too little revenue. Also, political consolidation "must" go hand-in-hand with the economic. The structural flaws in the zone has been more than apparent over the years but countries didn't want to face them. Whether not just Greece but Italy or Spain leaves is still up for grabs. Guess we'll find out over the next few months. | |
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Posted: 5/27/2012 8:15:23 AM | Msg21
Hmm highest nationalism? I look around my home and others and see very few british goods. I look in my fridge and most of the foodstuffs are foreign. Packaged stuff tends to be from combines such as Nestle, Kraft both of whom are outside the EU.
I would be hard pushed to name 5 BRITISH car companies. Cars may be made here but certainly not by british companies.
Yes foreign registered cars can be driven here. Yes there might be a time limit of 6-12 months then it is a jaunt back to country of origin and then bring it back again. Friend of mine has house in France, house in UK. Where do you think his car is registered and with French plates ? . | |
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Posted: 5/27/2012 9:02:42 AM | Nestle and Kraft aren't british but most products are produces by nestle uk or kraft uk. This means that you have industries in this country that give jobs to british citizens, that pay taxs in this country, help the economy grown and move.
I can't think about 5 spanish or italian car makers neither tbh but as the problem above, they are produced here.
I am not sure I understand what you mean with the fact that your mate have a house in france and drive a car with a french number plate? | |
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