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Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > Will Capitalism Fail?      Home login  
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 bwena
Joined: 2/5/2012
Msg: 1
Will Capitalism Fail?Page 1 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)
When people take advantage of the system, taking the most profits possible while paying workers less that they actually could afford, running companies into bankruptcy and keeping CEO salaries high, getting bailouts from the government but not passing on the benefits to customers, etc... won't the whole system eventually fail? At what point does the freedom to make a profit without government interference become exploitation and abuse? Someone told me recently, "Well, so and so didn't do anything illegal." Just because something is legal, does not make it ethical nor does it mean it will support the system in which it thrives. Will Capitalism eventually destroy itself through greed?
 Paul K
Joined: 3/10/2006
Msg: 2
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Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 5/29/2012 7:58:53 PM
I personally think that socialism and all that it leads to, will eventually be seen by any responsible person, as the bane of humanity. You talk of greed and captialism in the same vein? Socialism breeds an entitlement mentality that brings down whole areas of the world, whole govts......... witness what is happening in Greece. The Greek people used to be some of the hardest working ethnic groups of all............... Now, they are demanding that not only the people who worked, get paid pensions, but also their offspring............ the offspring who have done nothing to earn it.................

Oh yeah, greed will bring down countries, and it will be when the entitlement mentalities are realized in law.

Paul K
 BalderDog2
Joined: 1/6/2011
Msg: 3
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 5/29/2012 8:22:27 PM
Capitalism, as practiced in the United States, has already failed. Without a means to control the accumulation of wealth, it is guaranteed that those who have the most will continue to accumulate the rest, leaving the majority of the population subservient to the wealthy few. If those wealthy few are unable to control the population at that point, generally with the use of propaganda (used to divide the population, create imagined enemies, and elevate the wealthy rulers to a revered status), hired government thugs (often posing as rebels), a well funded military whose leaders are granted a high level of privilege, and re-education programs (that promote patriotic values of country, work ethic, and a hatred for anyone who advocates change), then eventually the population will use violence to take back what has been stolen from them.
 DameWrite
Joined: 2/27/2010
Msg: 4
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Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 5/29/2012 8:28:46 PM
Remember we can change the way people do business, we do this by getting the word out there and not supporting them.
Boycott and share the info on your social media sites.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 5
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Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 5/29/2012 8:35:15 PM

with the use of propaganda (used to divide the population, create imagined enemies, and elevate the wealthy rulers to a revered status), hired government thugs (often posing as rebels), a well funded military whose leaders are granted a high level of privilege, and re-education programs (that promote patriotic values of country, work ethic, and a hatred for anyone who advocates change),


Wow, you just described the current administration!

Exploited capitalism will fail. Any organism that is exploited by a parasite will eventually get sick and die. That is what parasites do. Capitalism is a natural resource management engine. If allowed to function properly, with proper moderation and control it is extremely beneficial and able to provide a means of social class mobility through all classes and that includes those that fall from upper class to lower classes. The problem you are feeling isn't capitalism. It is an exploitation of vulnerabilities within capitalism in order to crash it.

So, yes... without protection capitalism will fail. That isn't an indictment of capitalism itself. Unlike the more centralized planning resource management 'collectives'. As a few posts above said... they will always lead to an entitled class where everything is expected for free which will lead to a fall because you can’t manage scarce resources without assigning a value.
 BalderDog2
Joined: 1/6/2011
Msg: 6
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 5/29/2012 9:00:03 PM

Wow, you just described the current administration!


Explain how, using facts obtain from a valid, non-partisan source. Also, facts obtain from conservative, Koch Brother funded think tanks that were created to divided the population, create imagined enemies, and elevate the wealthy to a revered status through the use of propaganda, while advocating for a well funded military that serves the interest of the rich, and promotes ideas such as the patriotic values of heavy labor with little reward and a hatred for those who advocate for change, will not be considered a valid non-partisan source.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 7
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Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 5/29/2012 9:36:20 PM
Challenge accepted!

A little war and military and continuing Bushes policies
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/may/17/obama-campaign-going-after-veterans-votes/


“It really seems like Romney just doesn’t care about our veterans community,” said Rob Diamond, the Obama campaign’s outreach director for veterans and military families, in a conference call with reporters


http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/article/obama-us-britain-committed-afghan-mission/427986

"Tehran must understand that it cannot escape or evade the choice before it. Meet your international obligations or face the consequences."


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/05/01/obama-s-stealth-mission-to-afghanistan-shakes-up-the-campaign.html



It was George W. Bush without the aircraft carrier: stealthy, dramatic, and something of a stunt.
With his surprise visit to Afghanistan on Tuesday, President Obama seized a burgeoning debate about whether he was exploiting the anniversary of Osama bin Laden’s demise and injecting a huge dose of steroids.


A little nationalism and inferring that he rights all wrongs
http://www.barackobama.com/news/entry/justice-sotomayor-equal-justice-for-all

A little 'eat the rich'... wait... extending bush tax polices
http://www.barackobama.com/record/taxes?source=primary-nav


He has also signed 18 tax cuts for small businesses and extended the payroll tax cut for all American workers and their families, putting an extra $1,000 in the typical middle-class family’s pocket.


Oh... this is where he tries to take on the side of the little guy but missed cuz the big bad meanines won’t let him
http://www.barackobama.com/record/taxes?source=primary-nav



That's why President Obama proposed the Buffett Rule, asking millionaires and billionaires to do their fair share. But if you're one of the 98 percent of American families who make under $250,000 a year, your taxes won’t go up.


The President has asked Congress to take action to reform our tax code and close tax loopholes for millionaires and billionaires, as well as hedge fund managers, private jet owners, and oil companies.


Smoke and mirrors
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1KoCPQqXwo

the budget is more of a list of priorities


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Js8Sd7X5vwQ



Where everyone gets their fair shot and everyone does their fair share and everyone plays by the same rules.

- that is asserting that evil republican / rich enemies are stealing from under your pillow. When the hand under the pillow is his. It just keeps getting smacked down.

Blaming the enemy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Js8Sd7X5vwQ#t=190s

Doing the same thing will have a different result...

yet everything he has actually done has been extending what was done before. The only one looking to do what was done in Bush era is Obama.

The current administration has done nothing but talk. No budgets have been presented only complaints at the republican budgets. Bad ideas are presented that have huge flaws so they have little chance of passing (obamacare). Dumb fake gestures which would accomplish absolutely nothing towards the stated goal of paying off the deficit are proposed and shot down (buffet rule) because it is blatantly obvious you can't tax the rich enough to pay off the deficit.

But through all of this he makes you feel like you care if you support him. Like you are a better person just because you care. It is emotional manipulation and so transparent but to consider that you may not even believe he is really trying for what you believe in feels bad. It's nothing but emotions and projection of a higher power onto a false ideal.

It is all interference of capitalism and is not in any way attempting to stabilize. He is keeping the recession going and will continue to do so. That is the false enemy. He made you believe the enemy is capitalism. He is succeeding in that.
 ThinkinginCA
Joined: 4/14/2010
Msg: 8
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Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 5/29/2012 9:46:22 PM
I personally think that socialism and all that it leads to, will eventually be seen by any responsible person, as the bane of humanity.


Yeah, I'm sure those over 65 are going to throw of the chains of socialism soon....you know, all that Social Security and Medicare, majority of funds that make up those "soclialist" programs ran by the government.

I used to be sympathetic to the elderly and didn't think twice about my contribution to their wellbeing...but now days, I'm starting to reconsider. They protest too damn much while gorging most of the "socialist" pie.


The current administration has done nothing but talk. No budgets have been presented only complaints at the republican budgets.


Agreed....for once. They really must do something about undeserved power of the minority party and the fillibuster. Lets hope Reid will fix that at the beginning of the next congress.
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 9
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Posted: 5/29/2012 9:51:44 PM

They protest too damn much while gorging most of the "socialist" pie.

What choice do they have???? Also social security would be ok if it wasn't for politicans stealing from it. It's treated like the governments own piggy bank

http://www.forbes.com/sites/merrillmatthews/2011/07/13/what-happened-to-the-2-6-trillion-social-security-trust-fund/

This is why its a problem. It isn't because people are mean and uncaring. It is because governments SUCK and steal then blame the people for it.
 ThinkinginCA
Joined: 4/14/2010
Msg: 10
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Posted: 5/29/2012 9:56:55 PM

This is why its a problem. It isn't because people are mean and uncaring. It is because governments SUCK and steal then blame the people for it.


Agreed. That's why they hate socialism...they can't stand the concept of "insurance".
 Aries_328
Joined: 10/16/2011
Msg: 11
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Posted: 5/29/2012 10:02:06 PM

Agreed. That's why they hate socialism...they can't stand the concept of "insurance".


I suppose you are aware that you are just taking my conclusions and twisting the words to make it seem like you were right when you actually haven't contributed anything.

:) Haven't seen you here for awhile. Hope your doing well.
 forums1
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 12
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Posted: 5/29/2012 10:03:15 PM
What country are you talking about, because quite honestly capitalism hasn't existed here in the US for a long time now (if it ever really did)... what we have is a Plutocracy - rule by the wealthy/elite. You think someone without $millions in backing could actually make it anywhere in our national elections? And as far as I can see, its the same pretty much everywhere on this planet.
 ThinkinginCA
Joined: 4/14/2010
Msg: 13
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Posted: 5/29/2012 10:28:48 PM

I suppose you are aware that you are just taking my conclusions and twisting the words to make it seem like you were right when you actually haven't contributed anything.


I suppose you are aware that I'm just playing the game by your example.


:) Haven't seen you here for awhile. Hope your doing well.


Thanks, and hope the same to you. Been staying out of the political threads, though it seems it always sux me back in eventually.
 DameWrite
Joined: 2/27/2010
Msg: 14
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Posted: 5/29/2012 11:25:19 PM
We have to stop looking at any gov't for answers, they are just planted P.R. Their only agenda is to make us continue working for the elites, we waste our time, our health and our sanity trying to make plans or even sense of it all. They want us to play their game so that they can continue with their world (and space) domination and we will be too busy or screwed up to notice. They have all they need so really all they are wanting for is power. They can't have mine. Money, politics, religion, security, benefits. insurance etc. are all terms they created, you can't trust any of it, it's not in your best interest.
It's all about the "family" and I'm not talking about yours or mine. Call it mafia if you will, it doesn't matter. The battles from day one have all been about which family will rule. Call them whatever you want, they are in bred, psychopath globalists who are out of their minds with a thirst for absolute control.

Only when we quit working for them, dying or killing for them, only when we quit falling for their lies and quit being afraid to fight them, when we finally start to say NO! will they lose what power they have already convinced us they've acquired. It's all a ruse, they have no power without us.

There are masses of people who know what is really going on, even though the news only reports the lies.
I'm counting on and working with other awake individuals so that this world can be saved from these crazy's.

I think the only way is to stop recognizing any of their rules, stop valuing their shit and start taking responsibility for ourselves and our planet and totally ignore these guys and their money and their game.
We as individuals have the resources, we are the workers, we are the creators, the nurses, mentors, parents, etc. and we have REAL value and REAL values. We don't need theirs. Time to quit arguing which side of the sickos we want to slave for.
No matter how they try to name it, dress it, sell it, it's all fake. We can and will do better.
 ThinkinginCA
Joined: 4/14/2010
Msg: 15
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Posted: 5/29/2012 11:42:13 PM

We have to stop looking at any gov't for answers, they are just planted P.R. Their only agenda is to make us continue working for the elites, we waste our time, our health and our sanity trying to make plans or even sense of it all.


I understand the type of frustrations we feel to come to this conclusion, but this is rather misguided. It's probably the disconnect that allowed the lobbies to write all the laws....we've gotten lazy not being vigilant enough to make sure lawmakers weren't making deals with the corporations on their nest eggs. The better solution, and really the only one that helps our kids and the future, is to go and fix what's broken, however difficult that maybe.



I think the only way is to stop recognizing any of their rules, stop valuing their shit and start taking responsibility for ourselves and our planet and totally ignore these guys and their money and their game.


I so totally agree with you there.....we can all start with things we have control over...like paying ridiculous subscription rates for cable, phones, etc. If you want to hurt the corporations, start by hitting them where it hurts, on the monopolistic prices that has increased while wages have stayed flat. When you can divide some of these corporations who are in their own money race amonst themselves (Wall Street valuations), they will pressure other industries to limit cost pressures....i.e. insurance companies, lawyers, defense contractors, wall street and bankers, and ultimately, politicians.
 coyotefeller
Joined: 11/12/2011
Msg: 16
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Posted: 5/30/2012 12:53:21 AM
The greed started around 1975....in the US at least
Probably earlier in other parts of the free world.
The Regime in power doesn't seem to be important.
Now we realize the world financial system is all
Fvcked up ....another Problem !
And I want to answer younger people who think
they are supporting the older generation.
Do you really believe the baby boomers didn't
have a line on their paychecks named FICA???
And lets not forget most of us were employed
full time, all the time, no housing subsidies or
food stamps or whatever else plenty of young
people sucking at the Govment tit get these days !
You want to start a generation war, I got plenty
of ammo, how bout you ! ? wtf !
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 17
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Posted: 5/30/2012 3:23:41 AM
It isn't about Capitalism versus Socialism. It never has been.

As I've pointed out in other discussions about this, there is no single version of either of those systems, to begin with. You can rail about what you hate or fear about either one all you want, and you wont be talking about ALL of the existing examples that have been tried.

There is no such thing as "pure" capitalism, devoid of all regulation. Nor is there any such thing as genuinely self-regulating capitalism. There is just human behavior within and without of whatever laws are enforced, and how people respond. People who try to push the idea that "capitalism is naturally self-regulating," either know absolutely nothing of history, or are deluded to the effect that they are powerful enough by themselves to handle any eventuality.

A true example of "self regulating" capitalism, would be if someone sold poisonous food; people got sick and died from it; the poisonous nature of the food became well known; and people stopped buying the food; so the seller stops offering it. Great. So, the people who promote "pure self-regulating capitalism" want everyone to accept regular deaths of children and relatives, as a normal part of going through life.

Will capitalism fail? It always has, in the sense that is IS just a transactional process, and not a full fledged philosophical system of living. Saying you are a Capitalist, is not on the same level as saying you are a Christian, or Muslim, or any other religious or philosophical label. If it were, people would have to stop being Christians or whatever, in order to BECOME capitalists.

Being a transactional system also means that capitalism is more closely related to a complicated tool, like a car, than it is to anything else. Any complicated mechanism requires maintenance, and updating in order to continue to be a reliable response to the ever changing face of reality. Thus, capitalism needs constant tinkering in order to work, and even WITH plenty of mindful maintenance, reality will occasionally intrude anyway, and bring it all down.

For example, history has already given us examples of capitalist societies which remained in balance for many generations, only to be swept away in a single generation, by ecological shifts outside the control of the members.

Yes, capitalism will fail, as it always has, because the people who run it will make mistakes. That's why we are in this particular unpleasant period, and why we went through the Great Depression sometime back. But Capitalism will not fail in the sense that it will be replaced entirely by something else, for the simple reason that there really ISN'T anything else that so closely matches up with human behavioral characteristics.

Capitalism as it is constructed and regulated right now, will fail, and be rebuilt in another configuration, over and over again.
 soicat
Joined: 5/17/2012
Msg: 18
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 5/30/2012 6:15:12 AM

A true example of "self regulating" capitalism, would be if someone sold poisonous food; people got sick and died from it; the poisonous nature of the food became well known; and people stopped buying the food; so the seller stops offering it. Great. So, the people who promote "pure self-regulating capitalism" want everyone to accept regular deaths of children and relatives, as a normal part of going through life.


Igor, your food example is excellent, because that's exactly what happened. Food company brands began and developed because consumers couldn't trust food sellers. Merchants would adulterate food to increase their profits - with utter disregard for safety - and people were willing to pay a premium to obtain food products they could trust. The market responded and now we take it for granted that food is safe, and cheerfully purchase generic food to save money.

Government does everything it attempts very badly. Free markets, while far from perfect, actually do work to improve things.
 ThinkinginCA
Joined: 4/14/2010
Msg: 19
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Posted: 5/30/2012 8:09:47 AM

The problem isn't "capitalism." The problem is that Wall St. has become a greedy parasite
on the economy, and no longer helps productivity. Wall St. only cares about short term profits.


Sounds like capitalism is exactly the problem. In what other system would a "Wall Street" be necessary, much less running the show enough to suck out the life out of the whole economy?
 want to travel
Joined: 7/29/2006
Msg: 20
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Posted: 5/30/2012 8:32:44 AM
well, IT HAS FAILED
2008, wall street, was bailed out, this was the largest transfer of wealth in history, even greater then the russian revolutution
capitalism, is a wonderful thing,its like a forest, no matter how big the tree is when it falls, other trees take its place, and flourish
we no longer can say we live in a capitalist society
when average people, hold up, a failed corporation, or bank, with there taxes, or in the case of the USA, with debt
that is a new system, some kind of global, corporate welfare
can this go on for ever
of course not, we can't keep, printing money forever, or getting more and more into debt, some day that debt must be payed
canada, was the ONLY, g 8 country that did not 'bail' out its banks, the banks did not even ask for help
why, because in the late 60' and 70's, laws, and regulations where put into place,that made our banks safe from the type of abuse, the rest of the world suffered
our current governments, are now taking this great system appart,and putting the failed system in its place
why, simple corruption, and greed
 Sciencetreker
Joined: 2/13/2012
Msg: 21
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Posted: 5/30/2012 9:58:30 AM
Fail?....go to China. Capitalism is more rampant than ever. 1.3 billion people. When I was there every second person had dreams of starting up their own business . The irony is that this so-called totalitarian society has almost no restraints on captialism going frenzied. People there don't even pretend to not be materialistic...they revel in it. Most Chinese, despite the odd news report on CNN, don't want a real vote...they want an Ipad and a car. They want their kid to excel in school, make millions and buy them the biggest house in town.

Capitalism without real democracy is like an alcoholic locked in a liquor store. China, India, Russia, Indonesia, Malaysia, etc. are where the bazillions of dollars are being made. No worry about gramdma's shack in the way of a high rise or what to do with the waste water out the back door of a factory.
 DameWrite
Joined: 2/27/2010
Msg: 22
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Posted: 5/30/2012 10:14:17 AM
Many may think I live in a fairy tale land because we do things a lot different here and a lot of islanders are "hippy's".
The thing is, it works. Igor, when our little cheese shoppe had and outbreak, they posted it on our local website, told everyone what happened, told them which cheeses made which days were affected and asked everyone to check their fridges and return it. We did. There were many side notes from the customers saying, "sorry this happened, I'll be trading in mine for that new, yummy cheese I just tasted at so and so's." These people with the shoppe are our friends and neighbors. We know things can happen, we want to help them make sure it doesn't happen again, we don't want to see their company fail. We stuck through it with them. They had to re paint their factory with this special paint, and do a lot of work, the local hardware donated the paint, workers traded cheese for labour, everyone bought their cheese to help them.

In a small community you feel responsible. You want everyone to trust you and you want to trust others, so you work with each other so things work smoothly as well as healthy.

I live on a lake and I have 1st aid, firefighting and ocean rescue tickets, I am great with teenagers, I can fix things and build things, I share my skills and trade them for things I want or need. Like fresh veggies from the farm, free range eggs, home made wine, seafood, free range chicken etc.
I allow people in my house if they need it for a bit or if they have family coming over and need more room. These are some things I offer, I get back sooo much.
We do not have fast food corporations here, DQ tried it here, they left in the middle of the night. My daughter bought her real ice cream and fruitcycles from a mom and pop operation. The DQ was the only place she wasn't allowed to go. That was 19 years ago. When she visits, she still wants her fruit cycles and ice cream and organic veggies..

It's an island but everything you really need is available. We are in the midst of creating bike paths, we have hitch hiking pick up spots, our community bus route are expanding. My gas station is a co op. My trucker friend does snow removal and tells everyone if there is something going down. Right now we are getting rid of tent caterpillars without spraying and pulling scotch broom. We test our own water.
We have our own Salt Spring dollars, we have the bank machines for these being installed. We have community gardens and markets. Halls for dances, theater groups and our schools. We have a hospital, clinics, choices for the physically or mentally challenged.

We help each other. We do this because it is the best way. I can call today and have 5 people at my house in 2 hours if I needed them. I check the community site everyday to see what is needed or what is offered.

What I'm saying is a lot, including me, dropped out of mainstream, and it is working better here than most places. This can be done in any neighborhood. I'm hoping more people look for alternative ways to live.
 MrGoodManUK
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 23
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Posted: 5/30/2012 10:29:19 AM
I think we need an understanding of what capitalism is.

If I take a branch from a bush, sharpen one end and catch a fish with it from a nearby stream then the stick is my capital.
I used my skill and ingenuity to utilise the capital to acquire a commodity.

How can capitalism fail exactly?
 smarternudumbernmost
Joined: 5/25/2012
Msg: 24
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 5/30/2012 10:31:37 AM

Will Capitalism Fail?

IMO and based on MY definition and understanding of capitalism it can't fail.
Because it's more a collection of terms used to describe the natural interaction between human beings (similar to a lot of the "rights" in the bill of rights).
People are going to fulfill their perceived needs no matter what the state or government does.
Such as you aren't owed a job. You aren't entitled to a certain standard of living.
If you are a capitalist you are selling your labor for a profit.
You will always try to sell that which you control for what you think you need.
And there will always be exchanges.
Always be a black market (drugs, slavery, music and movie piracy, prostitution, going to Mexico for meds, international medical tours), even if it has to go back to barter.
All governments can do is interfere with the "market" and drive it underground, obfuscate it, create barriers, feed the "black" market from the open free market, until the "black" market becomes the open free market.
The biggest problem in any market or government is lack of transparency.


Just because something is legal, does not make it ethical nor does it mean it will support the system in which it thrives.

Everyone follows their own ethics, and those are based on their needs at the time.
Otherwise they are known as martyrs or jesus christ.


Will Capitalism eventually destroy itself through greed?

Capitalism controls greed through transparency.
The more you know, the better choices you can make.
And knowing is half the battle.
Crony businegovernment kleptocracy will eventually "destroy" itself through greed.
 PrunellaJones
Joined: 1/22/2011
Msg: 25
Will Capitalism Fail?
Posted: 5/30/2012 10:47:47 AM
Will Capitalism Fail?
Capitalism has existed since the beginning of even the most primitive civilizations. It is as old as prostitution. It isn't going to fail. Hey, but I heard from Henny Penny that the sky is falling. That's a bummer.

Boy, it's just too funny: the American perspective. Everything is either black or white: Republican/Democrat, Liberal or Conservative/Socialism or Capitalism--everything either one extreme or the other, no middle ground, no shades of gray...what a world....
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