| | Soon, boat people will no longer be able to lie through their teethPage 1 of 2 (1, 2) | http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8481095
At least Abbott has the balls to push these policies, unlike the current labor government.
What inspired such positive change was the 4 corners episode on people smugglers. Did anyone watch it?
You can see it here
http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2012/05/31/3515475.htm
It was a real eye opener. I'm glad it pushed authorities to do more about it. I think it was a major embarrassment to the AFP how the 4 corners program that has less resources and funding than the AFP were able to expose so much while little to nothing is being done about it.
Captain Emad the fraudulent parasite ended up fleeing the country over this. He should have been stopped.
And, why did his family get priority on the public housing list??? They're all comfortably housed in one of Canberra's newer suburbs, Dunlop.
Normally in Canberra people have to wait for years to get into public housing. There's a stink struggling to get out here. | |
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| Soon, boat people will no longer be able to lie through their teeth
Posted: 6/8/2012 11:07:56 PM | 100 years ago there were no passports and people were free to conduct the heinous crime of moving. During the massive state terror of WW1 they were introduced for 'security reasons'. Freedoms are hard won, readily relinquished, but rarely returned.
From the news article:
Opposition Leader Tony Abbott says under a coalition government there would be a "strong presumption that illegal boat people who have destroyed their documents not be given refugee status".
Do refugees destroy their documents?
What are the numbers of cases?
What are the consequences of the problem?
If they do, why do they destroy them?
Does it make them any less likely to be fleeing persecution than those who don't?
Is compassion only possible if it is accompanied by the appropriately stamped piece of paper?
Is this a political stunt to fan the flames of hatred?
Is it crying 'children overboard!' again? | |
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| Soon, boat people will no longer be able to lie through their teeth
Posted: 6/9/2012 5:41:21 AM | yer I saw it, was a big eye opener... and like most who watched it thought how can a bunch of reporters and a few weeks crack open a major smuggling operation.
having said that "the mr big" Capt Amed was caught working as a trolley picker upperer....hardly living large.
however, he lied send him home.
I just afraid for the real refugees out there, our country is F'ing HUGE. we got room (just not at my place) | |
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| Soon, boat people will no longer be able to lie through their teeth
Posted: 6/9/2012 2:56:03 PM | gingerosity
The simple fact is that if they are real legitimate refugees, why do they come the people smugglers way instead of the proper legal way? Just because they claim refuee status, that doesn't mean they're above the law.
Like the majority of these people, they come to Indonesia from Iran, Pakistan or Afghanistan by plane.
So they obviously had documents before they got on the boats.
Why not just fly all the way to Australia or fly from Indonesia and say here is my proof (documentation) that I'm an legitimate refugee instead of going to Indonesia and then choosing to take the rest of the way on a leaky boat?
Not to mention, they are paying the people smugglers a lot more than they would to just get a plane here the legal way.
Obviously, they must have something to hide. You have to be gullible if you can't see that there is something suspicious going on.
It's about time that more aussies are starting to wake up and smell the coffee instead of falling for the emotional blackmail by the Greenies and other lobbyists of the ilk..."If you don't let us in, yer all RACISTS.
Yeah right, let's just let any Tom,**** and Harry in just because they make up some sad story without any evidence to back it up. That way, we wont be considered racist if we let these people randomly come here anonymously and be above the law. | |
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| Soon, boat people will no longer be able to lie through their teeth
Posted: 6/9/2012 6:26:18 PM |
Just because they claim refuee status, that doesn't mean they're above the law.
Just because they don't have identity papers, that doesn't mean they are not victims.
Why not just fly all the way to Australia or fly from Indonesia and say here is my proof (documentation) that I'm an legitimate refugee instead of going to Indonesia and then choosing to take the rest of the way on a leaky boat?
Not to mention, they are paying the people smugglers a lot more than they would to just get a plane here the legal way.
Obviously, they must have something to hide.
You're assuming these people have complete knowledge of what lies ahead of them - that they are making fully informed, rational decisions. There would be a lot of misinformation feeding back to these countries about where to go and how to get there. Unfortunately these people are the few who believe the lies that going via boat from Indonesia is best. They give their life savings to smugglers, and are told to destroy their papers.
Sure, investigate them, find out why they have arrived as they have. But don't prejudge them. Don't exert "strong presumption that illegal boat people who have destroyed their documents not be given refugee status".
The majority of these people are desperate victims of terrible persecution in their own countries, of mis-information, of people-smuggling gangs... and "strong presumption" means turning them away without even giving them a chance to beg for mercy.
Since when was decency and virtue subordinate to suspicion and prejudice in the minds of reasonable people? | |
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| Soon, boat people will no longer be able to lie through their teeth
Posted: 6/9/2012 7:32:30 PM |
The simple fact is that if they are real legitimate refugees, why do they come the people smugglers way instead of the proper legal way?
I reckon if I was a minority of a community and saw my fellow segregates get their head lopped of with a machete, I'm not stopping in at town to apply for a passport and waiting a few days !! getting across a border anyway you can maybe the go.
faced with certain excruciating death for me and my family, I think a few years at Christmas Island would be a resort village.
now its just a matter of determining which are what, but surely we can atleast sort out the smugglers from the refugees and wannabee's. | |
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| Soon, boat people will no longer be able to lie through their teeth
Posted: 6/9/2012 7:33:39 PM | A topic that always stirs up peoples emotions.
I was privy to knowledge of a Pakistani going to Malaysia for a holiday last Sept, legit holiday. He had to pay for a passport, show enough money in a bank account to support a holiday and show he had purchased a return ticket before a visa was allowed. Then at the airport in Pakistan he was questioned and had to show all documents.
It does make one wonder with having to pay for a seat on a boat on top of all the other costs, with all this money they have why are they claiming they are refugees. | |
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| Soon, boat people will no longer be able to lie through their teeth
Posted: 6/9/2012 7:55:35 PM | casandra67
This logic in the situation that you expressed as well as the rest that I pointed out usually get's thrown out the window.
As gingerosity was saying. Sure, these people have no knowledge. Adding to that, these dumb people came up with the amount of money (15 thousand aussie dollars or so PER PERSON...think about whole families in this situation) to pay these people smugglers.
Not to mention, people from these countries, if there are closer countries (way closer) that would have been safe havens for them...that's if they are legitimate refugees...why go all the way here?
They're in clear breach of the UN Rulings on refugee status which disallows 'refugees' picking and choosing their country of refuge. It's first country of disembarkation which is the recognised ruling. These boat people travel through several countries before landing here.
Afghans should go to Iran, India or Pakistan, Iranians to Turkey, Tamils to south India whence they came in the first place. | |
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| Soon, boat people will no longer be able to lie through their teeth
Posted: 6/9/2012 8:17:52 PM |
that's if they are legitimate refugees...why go all the way here?
for the same reason why the poms, afghans, italians, indies, pakies, iranians, turkish, sri lankains, veitnamese, chinese, kiwi's, lebs, sirians, yanks, greeks, wogs, spicks, specks and tasmanians come here, cause where they come from they fucked it all up and its crap
Austraya = ...the greatest country on earth...its paradise !!
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| Soon, boat people will no longer be able to lie through their teeth
Posted: 6/9/2012 8:31:10 PM | with all this money they have why are they claiming they are refugees. This logic in the situation that you expressed as well as the rest that I pointed out usually get's thrown out the window.
What logic is that? Money prevents persecution? Paper and coins stop bombs and bullets?
Isn't it more logical to say that money allows the persecuted to flee furthest? Surprise, surprise - the ones with some money make it the furthest to us. Obviously they must not be refugees. Someone show me a window.
Afghans should go to Iran, India or Pakistan, Iranians to Turkey, Tamils to south India
The short answer is: THEY DO. We only receive a moderate number of refugees because most are too poor to make it this far.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Refugee_map_2007_destinations.png | |
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| Soon, boat people will no longer be able to lie through their teeth
Posted: 6/9/2012 8:45:52 PM | gingerosity
Lets go back to what you said here...
You're assuming these people have complete knowledge of what lies ahead of them - that they are making fully informed, rational decisions. There would be a lot of misinformation feeding back to these countries about where to go and how to get there. Unfortunately these people are the few who believe the lies that going via boat from Indonesia is best. They give their life savings to smugglers, and are told to destroy their papers.
You're missing my point. If they are so clueless which results to being uneducated, how can such come up with this amount of money in such countries?
Can it be that they are fully aware and yet choose to take another path to avoid some truth being revealed?
1. There are far closer countries that are safe havens.
2. It's far cheaper to do it the legal way.
3. Why put your identification at risk of being destroyed when it's the best source you have to prove your legitimacy? | |
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| Soon, boat people will no longer be able to lie through their teeth
Posted: 6/9/2012 9:00:46 PM |
If they are so clueless which results to being uneducated, how can such come up with this amount of money in such countries?
Growing opium poppies of course. Whats your point? That we should decriminalize drugs in the developed world to actually do something about the drug cartels and distribution networks? I agree.
Can it be that they are fully aware and yet choose to take another path to avoid some truth being revealed?
Yes of course it can - but you've missed my point. It is fundamentally immoral to deny them a fair chance to make their case before judging them, regardless of the existence or otherwise of paperwork. | |
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| Soon, boat people will no longer be able to lie through their teeth
Posted: 6/9/2012 11:46:55 PM | If these boat people are legimate refugees then most Australians do not have a problem with them, just look back to the Vietnamese boat people of the 70's or if you are too young look at the history books.
If these boat people are illegal immigrants then that has to be proven.
Unfortunately Australia has a bad history in regards to our immigration policies, just look back in history to our infamous White Australia Policy.
Maybe we should reduce our intake of Anglo/Saxon peoples and look more towards our sphere of the world.
Being multicultural does not mean we have to sacrifice our way of life for other cultures benefits but it does mean that all cultures are welcomed with the expectation that we all can live together under the one constitution. | |
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| Soon, boat people will no longer be able to lie through their teeth
Posted: 6/10/2012 1:24:59 AM | | gingerosity , these people are paying upto $30,000 each to get here, they fly to malaysia, destroy their passport have a fake one made saying they are from oman, jordan,uai, or saudis so they can get into indoneasia , then catch a boat to austaralia and claim there refos ?? they tell people in their own country their immigarating to australia??? WTF , this is illegal back door immigration has sweet FA to do with being persecuted, an iranian girl has the sh-ts because her fiance didnt make it to oz, boat sunk! this is a terrible tradgedy but how is it australias fault ! if these ppl can not pass our immagration laws why the hell should they be let in as refugees. Also ginger id much rather my hard earned tax $$$$ be spent on AUSTRALIAS war pensioners, old aged care , sickness benefits education,health services rather than wasting millions on looking after these people , FREE mobile ph, furniture packages for thier new dept housing digs , dont kid yourself mate for everyone of these illegals we care for a legit AUSSIE is dipping out, Australia is the laughing stock of the middle east they know we have a soft touch govt and plenty of snivel liberterians to help them get here, the sooner we go back to John Howards end to protection visas the sooner the boats will stop, call me racist or whatever you like mate but im saying what hundreds of thousands of aussies are thinking . | |
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| Soon, boat people will no longer be able to lie through their teeth
Posted: 6/10/2012 2:31:26 AM |
they tell people in their own country their immigarating to australia??? WTF , this is illegal back door immigration has sweet FA to do with being persecuted
I can appreciate your concern. But does that mean we should throw out any semblance of moral integrity in assuming innocence until proven guilty? If we do so for them, what is to stop the disintegration of our justice system for us?
All I'm saying is give them - everyone - a fair go. Is that so abominable?
Also ginger id much rather my hard earned tax $$$$ be spent on...
I don't think you should be incarcerated, beaten and raped for wanting to support those things. Do you think I should for not agreeing with you? If the answer is no, then I shouldn't be forced to pay taxes. Do we live in a free society built on morals and decency to our fellow humans? Or are we being ruled with propaganda and violent coercion?
Australia is the laughing stock of the middle east they know we have a soft touch govt and plenty of snivel liberterians to help them get here
"Tenderness and kindness are not signs of weakness and despair, but manifestations of strength and resolution."
- Kahlil Gibran.
call me racist or whatever you like mate but im saying what hundreds of thousands of aussies are thinking .
I wouldn't dream of insulting you when you are merely expressing your concern about a complex and emotive issue. And I have no doubt that you are correct, in fact I would say that it could well be a majority of aussies thinking exactly these same things. But even if I were the last person in the world advocating morality, justice and compassion I would still stand by my conscience. | |
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| Soon, boat people will no longer be able to lie through their teeth
Posted: 6/10/2012 3:28:57 AM | Agreed Qld Blue... I have no issue with refugees
(and I am young enough to remember the boat people)
When I was in my 20's I shared a house with my ex and 2 Ahmed's (one from Africa and the other from Indonesia) both of them worked full time, and studied full time too...
Refugees want a better life-- and are prepared to do the Sh*t jobs to achieve it. (Stuff that most of us would say hmmmm no)
I live in North Queensland, my backyard is huge (and has room for many) | |
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| Soon, boat people will no longer be able to lie through their teeth
Posted: 6/10/2012 5:20:44 AM | We have allowed a lot of english people into our country only to see them on the news in a drunken state expounding racist views and being involved in racist rioting, are these the sort of people we want as legimate immigrants?
I have worked with people from a lot of countries and if one actually listens to some of these people they are here for a better life and not Racist dribble.
It is easier to come to this country if your english than it is if you are asian but ask yourself this simple question, do we need drunken english hooligans itching for a mob brawl to reside here?
Now before you get worked up into a near stress related heart attack, that is a question that I have deliberatly generalised about immigrants from england and as we all know that the generalisation is not true.
The same generalisation that has been attached to the so called debate about refugees.
If the truth about some illegal immigrants is found then by all means return them to their original countries but let us also include the people who over stay their welcome as well regardless of their country of origin. | |
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| Soon, boat people will no longer be able to lie through their teeth
Posted: 6/10/2012 2:38:36 PM |
FACT: most illegal immigrants arrive in australia by plane.
From New Zealand
Just stirring Kiwis ... but a lot of Pacific Islanders came to Oz via NZ before the "show your passport" requirement came in.
However that wasn't why the passport requirement was introduced.It was introduced because Kiwis and Aussies would go and work for 6 months in the other country and then claim tax refunds in both countries on the false claim that they had only worked for 6 months.
Illegal entry, drug running and people on the run (ie Danger to the mug in the street) is only a slight inconvenience to governments ...But cost them money by cheating on your taxes and you're gonna be in trouble. | |
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| Soon, boat people will no longer be able to lie through their teeth
Posted: 6/10/2012 6:40:43 PM |
Illegal entry, drug running and people on the run (ie Danger to the mug in the street) is only a slight inconvenience to governments ...But cost them money by cheating on your taxes and you're gonna be in trouble.
Yes! Finally something we can agree on HappyRocker. Now you're getting to the real reason our rulers foam at the mouth about illegal immigrants:
Not on the books = no tax revenue. | |
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| Soon, boat people will no longer be able to lie through their teeth
Posted: 6/14/2012 9:12:48 PM | | Goodness no. Criminals are bad. And clearly these people are criminals because they breached our immigration laws, which we have in place for a very good reason. Right? So in order to better understand your perspective I am curious to find out what you think are the reasons behind our immigration laws? What unpleasantness or mischief are they intended to prevent for us? Because ultimately it is the purpose of a law, rather than the law as a document, that has value to us. I would have said overpopulation would be one reason, but clearly you don't agree, and it is true that we don't seem to have any other laws that would indicate that this is a concern of ours. | |
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| Soon, boat people will no longer be able to lie through their teeth
Posted: 6/15/2012 2:08:17 AM | I would have said overpopulation would be one reason, but clearly you don't agree, and it is true that we don't seem to have any other laws that would indicate that this is a concern of ours.
Overpopulation, fear-mongering, diversionary tactics, tax system inviolability, desensitisation to suffering, nationalist cohesion, promotion of the use of military on civilians, state justifying itself, dehumanising non-conformers, greed, suppression of morality, manufacturing consent, political ego trips, power over sheeple...
Overpopulation seems the least influential reason to me.
Edit: I almost forgot the most important one...
Divide and conquer. Keep people divided and fighting each other instead of the system. | |
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