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| | Circumcision. Is this a barbaric practice.>?Page 1 of 4 (1, 2, 3, 4) | I read recently, that a local German Court had ruled circumcision of infant males to be "Grevious Bodily harm" (Or the German equivalent), and a Doctor was charged, but subsequently acquitted.
This practice is mandatory for the sons of "jews" and "muslims" (I didn't know that!)
(There's some irony that it's the Germans, so I'll just [/Godwin] my own thread, to get that part out of the way! [No pun intended]) 
I don't really see how any non-essential surgery can be a good thing.
It's basically a form of genital mutilation, for cosmetic purposes, to show adherence to religious dogma.
There are all the attendant risks of infection, and bleeding etc.
And critically, (in this case) the children are too young for 'consent'.
The arguments about hygiene don't really make sense to me either. No-one suggests cutting off their toes, to avoid having to wash between them, or cutting off their ears, to avoid having to wash behind them.
Also, in a society seemingly obsessed with size, what right has a parent to remove any of the penis...?
It may not be much, but surely every little helps... 
(It would be like women having theirs made a little bit wider)
It's also one of the most sensitive parts of the organ.
I know that Female circumcision has been mentioned recently, and I think that most would agree that this should be stopped, but male circumcisions seems to be more "accepted" by society.
As with all religious practices, I feel that people should make that decision, if they want to, when they are legally Adults.
Was the German Court right..?
Your thoughts please.....
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| Circumcision. Is this a barbaric practice.>?
Posted: 7/15/2012 9:40:51 AM | I think the hygiene side of it goes way back when, so it was almost certainly valid then. Not so nowadays. How do you go about changing long standing traditions? Fancy starting a revolution?
I've spoken to a few guys who have had the procedure and they haven't a problem at all with it, prefer it infact. Not that they would know anything else.
But yeah thinking about it....ouch! ----crosses legs---- | |
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| Circumcision. Is this a barbaric practice.>?
Posted: 7/15/2012 9:44:48 AM | I've always wondered why this seems an acceptable practice (in the US anyway - not here) and is never questioned. Although it's a relatively minor procedure it isn’t exactly necessary surely.
Having said that my husband was circumcised after being diagnosed with type 1 Diabetes as this is an area that it affects and in this case it’s better off than on. (I did feel rather sorry for him and his discomfort (not enough sympathy to prevent me from dragging him around Ikea lifting furniture though)).
I am not in possession of the body part in question - however it seems rather drastic to have babies operated on simply to avoid possible future discomfort. If it is performed for the reason that ‘apparently’ sometimes uncircumcised males are seen as unclean then it's totally unacceptable. | |
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| Circumcision. Is this a barbaric practice.>?
Posted: 7/15/2012 10:05:10 AM | I have always thought of it as a kind of child abuse, and I know I may not be popular when I say this, but I have always thought having babies ears pierced as a kind of abuse as well.
If you heard that a mother had cut away bits skin, or stuck needles into their baby wouldn't you be horrified. I know I would. | |
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| Circumcision. Is this a barbaric practice.>?
Posted: 7/15/2012 11:58:18 AM | http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18793842
Sorry, I should have posted a link for further information. ^^^
Thanks for the replies.
I take the point about hygiene not being up to our scrupulous standards today, but it still seems an extreme solution to a fairly minor, and easily remedied problem. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face!
-Maybe they did that, if they caught bad colds too..?
But we don't have the problem of no plumbing today.
And anyway, there was no mention of hygiene, when "god" suddenly developed an aversion to foreskins, and told Abraham to cut his off, which he promptly did, and then also did the knobs of more than 300 of his male slaves. -All in the same day too, apparently.... 
And if "god" is supposed to dislike that bit, (for some reason I can't possibly fathom..), why didn't he just make them the way he likes them to look...? When he knocked-up "Adam"...?
That's the problem with religious people, they don't really think it through.
I also agree that it's a form of child abuse.
I think there is a "Movement" of men in the USA., who are actively campaigning, and objecting, and these are all men who've had it done to them. I think there might even be extreme cases of litigation against parents. (I could be wrong there...)
The complications run into the thousands of cases, not just a few. There was a debate recently, on a Sunday Morning chat show, and a great many "victims" of this practice object when they reach adulthood, and find out it was just their parent's choice..
I think there's been a cover up...
I think it has been "spun" as a "good thing", for a long time, because of the religious lobby's influences in various countries.
It "evolved" like that for a reason IMO.
Removal of it, routinely, is completely unnecessary, other than in rare cases, for medical reasons.
I don't care what "god" says, or the beardy weirdies, who claim to be in communication with him.
"You first" would be my answer to "god".
He might have been too sore to father an illegitimate child, with someone else's 13 year-old wife, if he had.
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| Circumcision. Is this a barbaric practice.>?
Posted: 7/15/2012 12:19:02 PM | Sorry you lost me when you went all 'godly'.... me no understand religion. It is what it is....good n bad.
Maybe hayfever drove them to chop off their noses? that drives people mad. Once when I had a tooth infection I thought I'd gladly slice half my face off to be rid of it.
Edit: obviously I'm glad I chose not to but after all, thats half a face, not some insignificant bit of flappy skin :D | |
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| Circumcision. Is this a barbaric practice.>?
Posted: 7/15/2012 12:36:08 PM | This is an interesting debate, as I, perhaps rather naively assumed it was a procedure without any real complications that did not have any real impact on the use of the penis, or the pleasure derived from it...
However, I need to read up a bit more on that. I m ok with circumcision occuring in children if they have one that is too tight, and its causes them problem, or for other medical reasons, but I don t think the argument for it being done on the grounds of hygiene are good ones.. If I argue that the female body is made the way it is for a reason, then I have to apply the same logic to a foreskin, its there cos it should be. I m not sure whether the Hebrew God particularly disliked that bit, but certainly the Jews circumcise as a sign of their special covenant with him. Muslims circumcise on cleanliness grounds I believe, but no age is specified for them so it can even be done at puberty, its not an absolute requirement, but is strongly encouraged, particularly as cleanliness is an important aspect of their daily prayer ritual..
Whether Muslims could be persuaded to give up the practice I dont know, but I think devout and practising Jews would be reluctant to because of its symbolic significance, whether secular Jews perform it still I m not sure, I would think not, but I ll have to do a bit of research... | |
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| Circumcision. Is this a barbaric practice.>?
Posted: 7/15/2012 12:37:57 PM | I'm with Chuzz on this - at least a child who has it's ears pierced at it's parent(s) behest, can let the wound inflicted (that's what it is folks) heal. -
If you perform circumcision on a child, its life is altered by that action.
Does anyone have the right to abuse their offspring in this manner (whether or not in the name of some god or other)?
I think not.
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| Circumcision. Is this a barbaric practice.>?
Posted: 7/15/2012 12:53:32 PM | If you are interested read the article linked below. My cousin in Canada found it as she was "recommended" circumcision by one of her friends just after she had her son. I should add that it was recommended by a female who wasn't born with a foreskin to remove (I recommended she had her mouth glued closed but she didn't agree:-) ).
I should warn you that not all the facts are pleasant reading.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201109/myths-about-circumcision-you-likely-believe
I'm off to chop my nose off as I keep sneezing | |
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| Circumcision. Is this a barbaric practice.>?
Posted: 7/15/2012 1:19:12 PM | | If you suggested removing another 'minor' piece of a baby's body, like I don't know earlobes or little toes, it would clearly not be allowed. So nor should this be. It would annoy some religions but they would get over it, like they have got over a whole load of secularisations of society already. | |
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| Circumcision. Is this a barbaric practice.>?
Posted: 7/15/2012 5:26:47 PM | | circumcision, unless medically influenced, should be an adult decision, made by the person who owns the foreskin, doing it to children who are often so young, as to not even know they have a ****much less know what its for, is wrong,abusive, and intrusive, imo . | |
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| Circumcision. Is this a barbaric practice.>?
Posted: 7/15/2012 9:52:35 PM | | One of my friends recently had to have a circumcision due to health issues. He was in absolute agony for months so it was a last resort. My ex boyfriend also had one when he was a baby for similar reasons. For health reasons, I have nothing against it. As a religious practice, it's just something we have to accept. If we don't follow that religion then it doesn't concern us. That's just how I see things, anyway. | |
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| Circumcision. Is this a barbaric practice.>?
Posted: 7/16/2012 12:07:26 AM | When I emigrated to Australia in 1981 I was horrified to find out that circumcision was performed on baby boy's not long after they were born as the norm.
My 6 year old son told me he would pull back his foreskin when at the urinal with the other boys because he was "different" to them.
I believe this practise of automatic circumcision has died out now and so it should unless for medical reasons, I'm not even sure it should be performed for religious reasons but that's up to the parent concerned.
As far as I know no anaesthetic was used at the time. That is just barbaric. | |
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| Circumcision. Is this a barbaric practice.>?
Posted: 7/16/2012 1:10:32 AM | Oh my goodness, it's no wonder then that both Jewish and Muslim men behave like such lunatics given the trauma of the barbaric circumcisions at their births...I was wondering why they were all so weird and strange...
wouldn't it be super horrific if they were also born using forceps...how about the mother screaming in agony during labour pains and threatening to kill the father to be during labour....oh the trauma, trauma, trauma!!!.....and ohmigod, some women opt to have non-natural births whereby they have epidurals in order to relieve themselves of the almost intolerable pain of childbirth...why those women are guilty of causing their infants to become future drug addicts due to causing the babies to become stoners so early on in life (in their first few moments no less)
Perhaps Male Genitalia Mutilation should be renamed Male Genitalia Enhancement instead...yes, it's not about creating a bigger penis..but it is about streamlining the male penis and making it more adept for it's actual purpose and less culpable in the cause of creating cervical cancer amongst women and f0stering diseases such as HIV and AIDS.
Regligious wise? I think its the accepted view that the commandments weren't necessarily the word of God despite the myths, but more to do with encouraging the then population to be law abiding, respectful and hygenic..
If a doctor (either male or female) had approached me after giving birth to either of my sons and told me that they would recommend circumcision to either boys as a way of saving the female population from suffering from cervical cancer and as a method for them to avoid catching or passing on HIV in the future ...I certainly would have said yes to those procedures being carried out..why not?
some men are a bit too precious about their penis'....sorry to inform you but the world does not revolve around your penis and your intimate and intense relationship with it...get real!.....get responsible and think about the health of others you may be infecting with cervical cancer and HIV for a change. | |
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| Circumcision. Is this a barbaric practice.>?
Posted: 7/16/2012 1:45:28 AM | I had it for health reasons in 2009 at the age of 44. No pain whatsoever
Am aware that in America it's more or lsee the standard, as Ex was/is American and she'd never seen an uncircumcised one.
I thought HIV was most rife in African countries where everyone is circumcised?
Nope not barbaric, just a useless piece of skin, you do however have to totally relearn your masterbation technique if you have it done later in life. | |
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| Circumcision. Is this a barbaric practice.>?
Posted: 7/16/2012 10:17:00 AM | Msg 10:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-landscapes/201109/myths-about-circumcision-you-likely-believe
Thanks for that Mr Ruals, it was very informative, and all from psychologists and doctors, rather than self-declared "rabbis", "mullahs", and priests.
Msg 7:
not some insignificant bit of flappy skin :D
& Msg 17:
Nope not barbaric, just a useless piece of skin,
I suggest you have a read of the link above, where it says:
Myth 1: They just cut off a flap of skin.
Reality check: Not true. The foreskin is half of the penis's skin, not just a flap. In an adult man, the foreskin is 15 square inches of skin. In babies and children, the foreskin is adhered to the head of the penis with the same type of tissue that adheres fingernails to their nail beds. Removing it requires shoving a blunt probe between the foreskin and the head of the penis and then cutting down and around the whole penis.
15 square inches!! Thatis like half a face! 
And of course, it's all covered in nerve endings, and all very sensitive.
some men are a bit too precious about their penis'....sorry to inform you but the world does not revolve around your penis and your intimate and intense relationship with it...get real!.....get responsible and think about the health of others you may be infecting with cervical cancer and HIV for a change.
It's been a long time since anyone revolved around mine... 
As to the cervical cancer and HIV transmission, here's what that site says:
Myth: Circumcision prevents HIV/AIDS.
Reality check: Three studies in Africa several years ago that claimed that circumcision prevented AIDS and that circumcision was as effective as a 60% effective vaccine (Auvert 2005, 2006). These studies had many flaws, including that they were stopped before all the results came in. There have also been several studies that show that circumcision does not prevent HIV (Connolly 2008).
//
And
Myth: Circumcision is worth it because it can save lives.
Reality check: Consider breast cancer: There is a 12% chance that a woman will get breast cancer in her lifetime. Removal of the breast buds at birth would prevent this, and yet no one would advocate doing this to a baby. It is still considered somewhat shocking when an adult woman chooses to have a prophylactic mastectomy because she has the breast cancer gene, yet this was a personal choice done based upon a higher risk of cancer. The lifetime risk of acquiring HIV is less than 2% for men, and can be lowered to near 0% through condom-wearing (Hall 2008). How, then, can we advocate prophylactic circumcision for baby boys?
Science and data do not support the practice of infant circumcision. Circumcision does not preclude the use of the condom. The adult male should have the right to make the decision for himself and not have his body permanently damaged as a baby.
Religions have convinced people it's nothing, and so this practice has been "accepted" as normal, when it's completely unnecessary in 99% of cases.
It seems that they've "bent" the facts, to suit their arguments, but science doesn't seem to support that.
Religions have always used "poetic license", where facts are concerned!
Anyway, you didn't answer the question, the "god" who demands this mutilation by his adherents, is allegedly the same "god" who designed and created man.
So why didn't he "make it right", in the first place..?
Why did "god" fvck up the design, and so the need for a retro-fit modification became necessary..?
Personally, I find it a very odd obsession to have.. But religions are odd!
Chopping off bits of baby boys' penises, long before they'll ever use them for any sexual purposes, seems to sexualise babies for no reason, and I find that disturbing, and the rituals somewhat perverse.
They invite strangers, normally dressed in some form of 'fancy dress', to irreversibly mutilate the penis of their newly born child, based on some religious mythology.
Think about that.
Crazy IMO
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| Circumcision. Is this a barbaric practice.>?
Posted: 7/16/2012 10:25:09 AM | I don't understand the need.
If it is for religion, why did their God not decide to make all males born to his liking?
As with most things religious, it doesn't make sense to me! | |
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_roxy_
| | Joined: 3/16/2012
Msg: 18 | |
| Circumcision. Is this a barbaric practice.>?
Posted: 7/16/2012 10:35:39 AM | Didn't god make man perfect then when eve did the dirty deed and they got cast out into the wilderness man then became imperfect? born imperfect.
So a mans foreskin would cover half my face?
If anyone is thinking of having this done and would like to donate the foreskin....... | |
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| Circumcision. Is this a barbaric practice.>?
Posted: 7/16/2012 10:36:26 AM | This can be an emotionally charged issue. Up until recent times, in Canada and the U.S. , almost all newborns were circumcised before mother and son left the hospital. It was done for cultural reasons with perhaps a small percentage done for religious reasons.
I am very thankful, for many reasons, that I was circumcised. | |
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| Circumcision. Is this a barbaric practice.>?
Posted: 7/16/2012 10:53:50 AM | My brother was circumcised when he was a baby.
It is meant to reduce cervical cancer in women as part of a sexual relationship.
Also if done on a whim when someone is older, then I would question the reasons and mental stability. | |
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| Circumcision. Is this a barbaric practice.>?
Posted: 7/16/2012 11:20:28 AM | | RadiantSpirit: some of the reasons include there being a less chance of getting some sexually transmitted diseases, there won't be a problem with mechanical problems of the forskin, the penis is easy to keep clean and I have had girlfriends tell me that circumcised ones look better. | |
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| Circumcision. Is this a barbaric practice.>?
Posted: 7/16/2012 11:36:28 AM | An uncircumcised penis is extremely easy to keep clean & hygienic.
If the 'owner' retracts the foreskin as a matter of course when urinating, the foreskin becomes easily retractable and thus promotes good hygiene.
This, I think, probably negates about 99% of the 'health' argument.
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| Circumcision. Is this a barbaric practice.>?
Posted: 7/16/2012 11:56:06 AM |
Chopping off bits of baby boys' penises, long before they'll ever use them for any sexual purposes, seems to sexualise babies for no reason, and I find that disturbing, and the rituals somewhat perverse.
sexualise babies...??? oh c'mon our jo...? i dont know how you got to this conclusion, but are you seriously suggesting that i sexualised my child when i chose for him to be circumcised... ? pfft...
They invite strangers, normally dressed in some form of 'fancy dress', to irreversibly mutilate the penis of their newly born child, based on some religious mythology.
my son was only hours old so every one was a stranger.. and he washed his hands and wore appropriate gear im sure, the surgeon that is... my son wasn’t mutilated - a circumcised penis is far more attractive than any i have seen lately... all uncircumcised. the first time i saw one, i was fascinated.. it totally ruined the mood :-/
and it was nothing to do with any religious mythology either... it was because everyone did it..
i think you are making a big fuss about nothing... my son reckons it has absolutely zero affect on him, physically, mentally, emotionally or sexually...
and 15 inches jo....? really thats a low blow jo... trying to distract us girls with measurements of such pleasurable proportions when discussing the penis.. you can only imagine how thin that skin is to be stretched to 15 inches.. i bet thats not a nice thought eh..
anyway.. just to add to your worries.. have a look at this...
Different beauty products companies have used different ingredients to make their product the best one. Now it is the turn of the human foreskin to join the list of ingredients being used in such products. Suddenly, the foreskin fibroblasts have turned into big business. Foreskin fibroblast has been used earlier for growing skin for burn victims, in eyelid replacement procedures, for growing skin for those with diabetic ulcers and making creams and collagens in the cosmetics industry). It is often seen as a better alternative to testing cosmetic products on animals though it does raise ethical questions about the value of human skin. Foreskin fibroplast is now being used in SkinMedica, a new facial cream promoted by Oprah Winfrey.
and all you uncircumcised chaps are sitting on a little gold mine so be cautious with your 15 inches.....
Product Review
a. This face cream is made from foreskin fibroplasts.
b. A fibroblast is a piece of human skin that is used as a culture to grow other skin or cells.
c. SkinMedica products costs more than $100 US for a 63 oz bottle.
d. Many claim that the SkinMedical product is an alternative to cosmetic surgery and is being favored by a rich and famous clientèle.
e. It is supposed to boost collagen production and can rejuvenate skin.
f. This is a controversial product and many are concerned about the ethical aspect of using this product.
g. The cream does not contain any actual human tissue but only the growth hormone left over from growing artificial skin.
h. One foreskin can cost as much as $100,000 and to buy foreskin fibroblasts offered by The Coriell Institute for $85 - click here
$100 000... ??? really...
you busy this friday night jo... ? | |
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