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 Kodanshi
Joined: 3/12/2012
Msg: 1
Islam: The Untold StoryPage 1 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
Did anybody see this on Channel 4? What did you think? It garnered a hell of a lot of hate and derision from muslims on Twitter. In fact, let me link you to it. Some people even went so far as to insult Tom Holland, the presenter. Let me see: a non–muslim looking at Islam and concluding that he doesn’t believe the version of the origins of Islam that muslims claim? Shocker!

http://twitter.com/search/IslamTheUntoldStory
 daisy_darling
Joined: 7/30/2012
Msg: 2
Islam: The Untold Story
Posted: 8/28/2012 9:33:34 PM
Coming from a largely secular society, as I do, I always find religious debate pretty irrelevant, but whether it's irrelevant or tedious or whatever, we should still be able to debate it without placard waving censure. If other great works of religous text can be picked apart and over analysed, why not the Koran too ?
 Norsewind1
Joined: 4/9/2011
Msg: 3
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History
Islam: The Untold Story
Posted: 8/29/2012 1:31:47 AM
A brave attempt by historians to find facts behind a belief, its rather like creeping up to a sleeping Lion and giving it a slap, only in this case the Lion is huge and fierce, and then running like hell to escape.

Religion in history does show that it was a way to control the people by the ruling minority and to unite the people under one banner to further the ambitions of wealth and power to the ruling minority, and way back in time the only way to amass more power and wealth is to conquer other lands and peoples who did not have the same beliefs.

An interesting program, apart from that annoying woman speaking childish descriptions at what is being shown when the presenter is not talking.
 surreytown
Joined: 9/21/2011
Msg: 4
Islam: The Untold Story
Posted: 8/29/2012 2:24:19 AM

Religion in history does show that it was a way to control the people


Yes ALL religions promise a reward for believing and following their version at the exclusion of another.

Question. Will they ever see beyond the confines of the manipulation ?
 day-trader
Joined: 2/22/2012
Msg: 5
Islam: The Untold Story
Posted: 8/29/2012 2:32:59 AM
Coming from a largely secular society


Cornwall is not a secular society, where I live 99% of the people are either atheist or Christian. There are no mosques, temples or any other form of religious buildings, only churches.


A brave attempt by historians to find facts behind a belief, its rather like creeping up to a sleeping Lion and giving it a slap, only in this case the Lion is huge and fierce, and then running like hell to escape.


It's now illegal to insult islam in the UK shows which minority has the upper hand.

Didn't watch the documentary, I'm happy living in my bubble, away from Islam and all of the problems it and other religions bring to this country.
 Norsewind1
Joined: 4/9/2011
Msg: 6
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History
Islam: The Untold Story
Posted: 8/29/2012 2:41:43 AM

Cornwall is not a secular society, where I live 99% of the people are either atheist or Christian. There are no mosques, temples or any other form of religious buildings, only churches.


Ermm not any more


http://www.cornwallasian-islamiccommunitycentre.co.uk/mosque_in_cornwall.html
 day-trader
Joined: 2/22/2012
Msg: 7
Islam: The Untold Story
Posted: 8/29/2012 2:45:17 AM
Ermm not any more


http://www.cornwallasian-islamiccommunitycentre.co.uk/mosque_in_cornwall.html


That mosque was knocked down about 3 years ago by the mosque busters due to a planning breach and complaints by the locals. They tried again to build it in Newquay and loads of people protested, last thing I heard from my friend (who's a local councillor) is that they gave up and moved back up country due to the fact the council have made it impossible for any mosque to be built here.

I'm not proud of all this, just saying there are some parts of England where people do not want to embrace and celebrate other religions, a lot of people that have moved to Cornwall have done so for the traditional Cornish culture, so they are hardly going to let the same thing happen down here.

The general mood in Cornwall is you can come here, but you live by our ways. You actually have to live here and meet the people then you'll see what I mean.

This clip is a bit racist but it reflects the mood and before you ask, no I didn't go to it, I find it offensive but as a guest in Cornwall I believe I do not have the right to dictate what they can and can't do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pdk4v11U4tQ
 SGB2012
Joined: 1/2/2012
Msg: 8
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History
Islam: The Untold Story
Posted: 8/29/2012 6:02:40 AM
This thread won't last very long, but in any case any belief that does not court and can not survive critical scrutiny should be discarded, and that includes Islam. Though I know there are many good individual muslims, the religion as a whole is not compatible with progressive western values, neither was Christianity which is why that fell by the wayside.
 fredforties
Joined: 11/25/2010
Msg: 9
Islam: The Untold Story
Posted: 8/29/2012 9:11:55 AM
secular is not the same as multi-religious - instead it is at least the separation of church from state - and preferably education and everything else.

cornwall can be 100% christian without a mosque even in its dictionary and be completely secular...

now get back to robbing tourists and passing ships before the vicar catches you idling on the internet
 Steve_Sandy
Joined: 3/19/2006
Msg: 10
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History
Islam: The Untold Story
Posted: 8/29/2012 9:26:38 AM
looked into islam when in saudi arabia a long time ago, bit strange but they were going on about how their prophet had a child bride at 6 and consumated the marriage when she was about 9 years old. the guys extolling islam could not see anything wrong with the idea as they always had young girls as wives and why should they do anything different.

it is not racist to be against such a religion whose goal seems to be world domination and to treat anyone who is not a muslim as a sex slave, source of income or just a slave

Looks like the good people of cornwall know what they want and if islam is so great, why not go and live in saudi arabia where it is practised ?
 badge73
Joined: 1/17/2009
Msg: 11
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History
Islam: The Untold Story
Posted: 8/29/2012 9:50:20 AM

it is not racist to be against such a religion whose goal seems to be world domination and to treat anyone who is not a muslim as a sex slave, source of income or just a slave


sounds like every religion in general .... oh but were called missionaries years ago lol

never saw the program hopefully catch up with it on the website, wonder if the author will have a fatwa against them?
 daisy_darling
Joined: 7/30/2012
Msg: 12
Islam: The Untold Story
Posted: 8/29/2012 9:55:41 AM

secular is not the same as multi-religious


Just to clarify; I used the word secular to denote a society that is less concerned with religion than it once was.
 Fernylee
Joined: 2/3/2010
Msg: 13
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History
Islam: The Untold Story
Posted: 8/29/2012 12:24:35 PM
I watched it. It was on for a long time, so you had to keep focussed.
I don't purport to be any kind of expert on Islam, but I know a bit more than the average person. It was very interesting to see the inception of Islam from an 'archaeological' point of view. With all the scientific knowledge we have at our disposal nowadays it's only to be expected that the subject of 'faith' is analysed, and maybe even had a review on previous thought, knowledge and belief than say, 20 years ago.

There are over 1000 inventions we use to this day that were invented by Islamists, including the higher education body called 'university' - where countless scientific genius have furthered the knowledge, health and well being of mankind up to this point.

If a few over-sensitive muslims are getting 'itchy' about their faith's origins being anaylsed, I'd say their reactions reflect only on them and not on the programme.
I imagine it's only like some devout christians getting rattled if the programme had been about Jesus and Christianity.
 Kodanshi
Joined: 3/12/2012
Msg: 14
Islam: The Untold Story
Posted: 8/29/2012 4:02:05 PM
Yes, I agree with you there (and I actually know a lot on the subject, since I am an ex–muslim who was extremely devout at one stage). The bit that spoke to me most was Father Justin saying that the spiritual truth behind the stories mattered more than if the stories had really happened. I consider that BS, but I appreciate the sentiment behind it, and wish more muslims could share that viewpoint.
 dwight_the
Joined: 7/4/2010
Msg: 15
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History
Islam: The Untold Story
Posted: 8/30/2012 2:58:29 AM
Why do historians think they know more about something than the people that lived at the time of the event or closer to the ? It's not like they come across libraries of information.They base their "assumptions" mainly on the things that are recovered from ruins or their interpretations of such finds .Just watch that digging show on tv ,most times they find nothing relating to the fictional story they are creating.It's like the science fiction writing of the evolution and big bang supporters.They just make stuff up.
 Norsewind1
Joined: 4/9/2011
Msg: 16
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History
Islam: The Untold Story
Posted: 8/30/2012 3:36:39 AM

Just watch that digging show on tv ,most times they find nothing relating to the fictional story they are creating

I think you will find that its the opposite, archaeology sets out to find solid proof relating to fictional historical stories, and in some case's history has been rewritten due to finds and such, and these finds can be dated and traced more accurately due to advancement of science and technology.
 CharityTrue
Joined: 11/15/2011
Msg: 17
Islam: The Untold Story
Posted: 8/30/2012 6:48:37 AM

...as a guest in Cornwall I believe I do not have the right to dictate what they can and can't do....


No more calls please, we have a winner...
 day-trader
Joined: 2/22/2012
Msg: 18
Islam: The Untold Story
Posted: 8/30/2012 10:04:04 AM

It's like the science fiction writing of the evolution and big bang supporters.They just make stuff up.


Oh my god did you actually just say that evolution is "made up"? LOL
 fredforties
Joined: 11/25/2010
Msg: 19
Islam: The Untold Story
Posted: 8/30/2012 10:14:29 AM
if it contradicts baptist teaching, dwight cannot begin to get his head round the concept..... he comes across as completely rational on other matters but on religion, he is blowing smoke up his pastors.................

nice appendix dwight! any idea how it got there??
 fredforties
Joined: 11/25/2010
Msg: 20
Islam: The Untold Story
Posted: 8/30/2012 10:19:17 AM

Yes, I agree with you there (and I actually know a lot on the subject, since I am an ex–muslim who was extremely devout at one stage). The bit that spoke to me most was Father Justin saying that the spiritual truth behind the stories mattered more than if the stories had really happened. I consider that BS, but I appreciate the sentiment behind it, and wish more muslims could share that viewpoint.


and there go all of us from whatever religious background. truth is truth - there isn't spiritual truth - it's either truth or it isn't.

muslim, christian, jew, whoever, whatever, most of our religions (and these are the same religion with a few localised twists) are not a lot more than codified society law - follow these rules and we in our tribe or location will get along together OK... break them and things either fall apart or some of us will have to come and get you and stop you doing things against the code..... oh, and to put a bit of clout behind the law, we're going to add that the supreme judge can not only see what you do, he can see what you think... and if you want to live for ever in the next place, you had better stick to the law.......
 SGB2012
Joined: 1/2/2012
Msg: 21
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History
Islam: The Untold Story
Posted: 8/30/2012 10:37:44 AM
It makes me laugh, creationists will trust science to provide them with medicine, stick them on a plane or indeed create the internet... yet when it explains the origins of life they don't want to know and instead place their confidence in a book which tells you to murder homosexuals and that the world is flat.
 CharityTrue
Joined: 11/15/2011
Msg: 22
Islam: The Untold Story
Posted: 8/30/2012 12:51:47 PM
No need to get malignant...
You have no faith, and in your opinion there is no spiritual truth.
Others have different views.
Saying Dwight "can't get his head 'round" something he simply does not believe is rude & an error...
I could easily say you can't get your head round the fact that you are spirit that will not die.
You cannot get your head round the fact that despite your conscience, you still choose to believe that you are the final authority in your existence... It makes me laugh, people who create their own morality to suit their own desires...
 safaa30
Joined: 3/1/2012
Msg: 23
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History
Islam: The Untold Story
Posted: 8/30/2012 1:59:54 PM
I started watching it but fell asleep halfway.

Maybe I was mistaken or fell asleep before I had a chance to see it all but I kept thinking, if he was looking for written substantial evidence why the hell did he join a group of nomads travelling up and down the desert who am sure didnt have a hell lot of reading material and who didn't look like they could neither read nor right? Shouldn't he have toured all the universities, libraries and interviewed a bunch of historians and scholars like himself? That was poor research and he only seemed to be perpetuating his own opinion on the matter and being very biased. In other words, as usual, telling the british public what to believe.
 dwight_the
Joined: 7/4/2010
Msg: 24
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History
Islam: The Untold Story
Posted: 8/30/2012 4:21:52 PM


It makes me laugh, creationists will trust science to provide them with medicine, stick them on a plane or indeed create the internet... yet when it explains the origins of life they don't want to know and instead place their confidence in a book which tells you to murder homosexuals and that the world is flat.
I don't usually respond to stupid posts but this time I will make an exception .
Making of medicine and the invention of the Aeroplane and the Internet have nothing to do with believing in evolution .Those things are driven by necessitation and profit .
Most of the early pioneer in medicine were Christians .Some of the best doctors are Hindus ,the biggest drug companies are owned by Jews .The Wrights brothers were not scientist but bicycle mechanics .I could have studied medicine like my brothers or even went into the aviation industry,that still would have little effects on my faith .

I did not just get up and dismiss evolution and certain aspect of history as fiction without any knowledge of the subject .A lot of scientist want to leave evolution alone and practice real science but people are usually drawn to where the money is.I listen the Public Square Network all the time and there are lots of very bright scientist that appear on their programs that dismiss evolution as nothing more than fictional writings.
There are quite a number of creationist that believe in evolution as evolution does not remove God from the story of our being ,I don't as I think evolution theory is not science but science fiction.

Guess who else think it is science fiction ?
Dr. Raymond Damadian , the guy who invented the MRI scanner also think evolution is science fiction .Do you know more about this subject that a biophysicist who is a recipient of the numerous awards from top institutions including MIT ?
 day-trader
Joined: 2/22/2012
Msg: 25
Islam: The Untold Story
Posted: 8/31/2012 1:11:58 AM
Dwight, I don't know what religion you follow but when looking at religions they almost all follow the same theme, it's as if they've just copied the previous religion and changed a few things and modernised it for the time.

If you look on the internet you'll find thousands of self proclaimed prophets and just as many believers, the only difference is people were a lot more gullible before we had science.

If I was alive 2000 years ago of course I'd say I was Jesus, but it will cost you some fish and a loaf of bread to hear my stories from God.
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