| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 2:48:37 AM | I have aways thought that capital punishment is such a hypocritical way
of solving the problems, that we dealing with in regards to citizens that are
considered to be a danger to society. What are your veiws?  | |
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longte
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Joined: 10/18/2004
Msg: 2 | |
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feste
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Joined: 8/6/2005
Msg: 4 | |
| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 4:09:14 AM | I think it is way too severe a punishment. Deletion of posts and threads, and temporary bans on accounts seem like plenty. I can't believe the mods here are seriously considering this for members. Things are getting out of hand. Or did you mean in general out in the real world?
[LOL ... well, there are a couple... /xander] | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 6:39:48 AM | ^lol
I'm for it but only for the worst offenders out there. For example, here in Canada I can't imagine that we'd get more than a dozen a decade the way I envision it being implemented. People like to say that in an enlightened society there is no need for it. Well, okay, if you say so. If they can't be reformed then what are we keeping them alive for ? Nothing wrong with making them pay the ultimate price for some crimes. I'm not talking about the guy who gets drunk and puts a few slugs in his neighbour. He should definitely serve at least ten years for something like that but not pay with his life. I'm talking about people who chop up children and monsters like that. I don't care if they are reformable at that point for that matter, I want them dead to pay for what they did. Nothing wrong with that emotion either despite what some people want us to believe. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 6:57:22 AM | | I'm for it. However, there should be no question of guilt. Crime and punishment are a topic I get heated about. Same with anything to do with the government and laws. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 7:15:25 AM | A child lays in her bed, innocent and sleeping. A bullet comes through her bedrom wall and kills her instantly. It was because a drug deal gone bad acrossed the street. The one who fired the gun gets a jail sentence and is out walking the streets a few years later.
Nothing about that scenerio is fair!
This can turn into a major blow up in here so i am done already lol | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 7:27:58 AM | | OK I do not believe it is a deterrant of crime...nor do I think the system is fair to the family and friends of said victims.....that being said there are crime so grievous I believe they warrant termination...but I also think there are more crimes than murder that should fall into this catagory....rape, any crime against children, and if I ever caught a person hurting my dog, there would be no arrest, no trial, just us a crowbar and a blowtorch. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 9:18:33 AM | For.
But...like it matters what the law says sometimes hu?
*shrugs*
capital punishment is such a hypocritical way
Do more math on this one you.
I can't believe the mods here are seriously considering this for members
MOST hilarious.
lmfao. CHEERS!! | |
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feste
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Joined: 8/6/2005
Msg: 10 | |
| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 9:27:56 AM | | The satisfaction of capital punishment is visceral. It satisfies an immediate and personal impulse. Overall it diminishes society, and each of us. Civilization has been progressing from basic tribal law to global self-government. With mankind assuming responsibility for itself, there comes the challenge of morality based in understanding as opposed to emotional satisfaction. The death penalty lets us off the hook in terms of cause and effect. It places the blame entirely on the individual accused of the crime. It also reaches beyond our ability to be certain, and necessarily murders innocent people. Lastly, in strictly moral terms, people do not have a right to kill other people under any circumstances. By giving yourself that right you also grant it to everyone else, and there is no moral basis for law or justice. I am against it. | |
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xander
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Joined: 7/17/2005
Msg: 11 | |
| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 9:36:59 AM | Parallel thread in the Ontario forum, my post:
I'm not 100% against it.
Not for a one-one-one crime of passion kind of murder but when there has been irrefutable evidence (i.e. gunman tackled during a shooting spree) and the person would never again see the light of day, why should they continue to be a drain on society? When someone has made a drastic decision to flush their life away and destroy the lives of others in the process, continue flushing and be done with them. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 9:56:16 AM | | I think alot of people think that capital punishment is murder in itself. I suppose there's something to that. However, if my crime as the executioner is to transfer their guilt onto my conscience I will happily do so. Clifford Olson, Paul Bernardo, etc., I don't care one iota about their rights. They forfeited them the moment they committed their crimes. They aren't people anymore. They have proven they can't function in society. They have proven that they don't care about us or even our most basic needs. I see nothing wrong with giving into my desire to punish them. I'm not concerned with the argument that it's supposed to act as a deterrent. I don't care if my throwing the switch makes me a murderer in some people's eyes. Mostly though, I don't care about these **stards who have done so much wrong. I see no need to pay for their upkeep (not that I care about the money for that matter either) Nope, I want them dead purely for the satisfaction of exacting revenge on them. They get to make their exit in a far less painful and grotesque way than that which they inflicted on their victims. And the best part is we never have to worry about them again. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 10:01:26 AM | TOTALLY understand everyone's view on this controversial issue..
In all honesty, i have to say that i don't know how i would react...part of me says that if i could get my hands on the offender and/or murderer, i would do a little "justice" of my own...and at the same time, i am asking myself ~ would this kind of "justice" make me any different than the offender? My feelings are soooo mixed on this...the sole reason i created this thread. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 10:10:46 AM | | Nothing would happen if one would be allowed to do 'justice' of their own instead of Capital Punishment. The guy would be walking out again and you'd be left with nothing except feeling cheated and that it was unfair. If he took a life, he loses his. If he ruins a child's life, he loses his. I'm %100 for. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 10:29:32 AM | | I'd go along with those who would reserve it for the worst offenders; the "human monsters" who brutally rape, molest. torture, or murder without any hesitation or guilt, and who would not hesitate to do it again if they got the chance. To anyone who says it is not a deterrent, ok, maybe not...but it IS a way to insure that each person executed is one more person who will not EVER get a chance to committ his atrocities again. I call that justice. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 11:03:36 AM | excellent post, feste.
I too, am against it. I don't, however, think that anyone knows if their opinion would change if they were personally touched by the issue; I certainly didn't think mine would change. However, there was a period of about 6 months where I did believe in it; only for the most aggregious crimes, and only when there was absolutely no doubt of guilt; ZERO.
BUT, thankfully, with a system of justice in place, the decision is not an individual one left to the surviving victims. It puts distince between our gut instincts and our well-thought-out, educated decisions.
That said, until we have a system that can assure that not one more innocent person is wrongfully executed, I don't think it should even come down to the moral issue. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 12:06:35 PM | I support the death penalty.
I don't support the MEANS of killing pedophiles and mass murders and the like.
Pedophiles should have a sandwich board on and put into the general populace of the prison. Be given no food, no water, no medical treatment. When it's death time, put them in a shack and let them starve.
A clean needle is far far too good for some of the phucktards out there.
Or
Hand them over to their victims families.
I'm quite callous when it comes to these ppl. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 1:45:42 PM | For me killing someone is the same whether it's legal or not, unless for self-defence and such.
But I do believe in the right of our society to defend itself. My problem is I have no idea what else to suggest that doesn't amount to torture on some level (life in a cell etc...).
What CAN you do if you can't change an individual ? I'm extrapulatingly perplexified. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 3:15:49 PM | Civilization has been progressing from basic tribal law to global self-government
It doesn;t seem to be working out so well though sir!
The death penalty lets us off the hook in terms of cause and effect.
Sometimes it makes it an easy and immediate line to draw between cause and effect though doesn't it? Not ALL people who have ended a life should, in my view, get the bullet to the head but..the option sure is good!
It also reaches beyond our ability to be certain
Doesn't that rely on.."Us'?
in strictly moral terms
And In value terms it is hard as well, but it CAN be justified.
By giving yourself that right you also grant it to everyone else
um..hu?
and there is no moral basis for law or justice
Our collective morals and values ARE the basis for law and justice sir!!
would this kind of "justice" make me any different than the offender?
Yes it really would; depending on your reasons if I'm not mistaken here.
and only when there was absolutely no doubt of guilt; ZERO.
cool.
unless for self-defence and such.
IN a way the death penalty IS self defence though dude!!! (actually...so many ways)
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 3:37:54 PM | | I do believe that some crimes are diserving of death, but I don't think that Governments should have the authority to off someone no matter what their crime is. If we could exist in a Society run by Robots then maybe, but people in Judicial system are corruptable, and incompetent, and many inococent people would, and do die at the hands of jude and jury. | |
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feste
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Joined: 8/6/2005
Msg: 22 | |
| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 3:44:10 PM | I'd just like to say that breaking down an argument into sentences creates meaningless fractions unrelated to the original message. You can as well do it with a sentence, it has the same effect.
I'd
not we?
just
do you mean only or fairly?
like
isn't this subjective?
to
from where?
say
yes, by all means
etc.
OT: The basis for human rights is that they apply equally to everyone. The right to protect oneself is the basis for authority to detain and contain others who are offensive. Once that aim is achieved, further punishment is immoral. It may feel good to whip someone, but there is no moral basis for it. That detention is unpleasant is not the same as an intended punishment such as torture.
The broader picture includes how things really are in the world, of course, beyond an abstract framework of rules. I believe we have a flawed society in great need of improvement. Chief among our problems is a built-in percentage of people destined to fail economically. We conduct business in such a way that some people will undeservedly suffer, and as a result their behaviors will be violent, aggressive and criminal. In other words, along with the approved types of citizens we knowingly crank out the ones who become outlaws.
If things stay the same in the economy, we will have the same number of failed citizens yearly. Knowing this, it becomes our responsibility to adjust our methods so that we no longer produce that type of failure. Looking only at any individual case, all we can do is imagine how we would feel, and how fair it seems to kill the **stard. But stepping back to look at the issue broadly, it's not so simple. The overall goal of reducing the crimes for which capital punishment is now dealt will be best served by preventing the conditions which breed social pathology. I know that some people are just wired goofy and you can't predict what they will do. But I think most criminals have a long history where people knew something was wrong but did nothing to help.
As a practical incentive, the better job we do raising children, together as a society, the fewer crimes we suffer and the lower the costs of protection, prosecution and containment.
The moral question I see is whether we are individuals only, or a people collectively. If we have no responsibility to each other then law is a matter of negotiated peace. But if we do have an obligation to one another, it begins at birth and until we step up the price we pay is to be preyed upon by those we abused and neglected. The same thing goes for international groups, war, terrorism, and so on. It is all the same basic question. Then law must be based not on vengence but on morality, which does not extend beyond our right to protect ourselves. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 3:55:54 PM | | Feste, I do believe this is the most well-written, clearly articulated, objective, compassionate, insightful posts I've come across. Kudos. | |
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feste
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Joined: 8/6/2005
Msg: 24 | |
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ebiker
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Joined: 5/27/2005
Msg: 25 | |
| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 4:03:34 PM | For convicted offenders who willfully and brutality murdered a Policeman, children or committed a heinous crime which resulted in a persons death----I support the death Penality.
However the penality isn't always quickly applied, because of endless legal appeals and "stays of excution" at taxpayers expense, it may take upwards of 20 years before Capitol Punishment is ever applied to those on death row.
Pinklace sez---Pedophiles should have a sandwich board on and put into the general populace of the prison. Be given no food, no water, no medical treatment. When it's death time, put them in a shack and let them starve
Would like to but cannot, 'cause they have "rights". Pedophiles go into protective custody as a safeguard from other inmates! | |
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