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| legal prostitution
Posted: 8/10/2005 6:01:13 PM | who here thinks prostitution should be legal everywhere
some countries it is, such as in Holland in city of amsterdam.
Do u think it should be legal, if women want to sell themselves for money they should?
as long its govt controlled with rules and laws?
whats everyones opinion | |
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longte
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Joined: 10/18/2004
Msg: 2 | |
| legal prostitution
Posted: 8/10/2005 6:23:27 PM | Prostitution has been around for a very long time
It will not go away
Once is was a Very respected profession in most countries
To remove the criminal aspect, would also remove the criminal opportunities
Now prostitutes are targets for all types of lowlifes
Drug dealers Pimps etc
If they were an accepted part of society this would stop quickly
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| legal prostitution
Posted: 8/10/2005 6:45:38 PM | not bad idea^^
however i personaly disagree with it.. i think it creates even more demand, and draws more people to the lure of quick money.. and it will not stop a black market type of prostitution. | |
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| legal prostitution
Posted: 8/11/2005 1:05:16 AM | | I lived in The Netherlands for many years and I must say that sexual crimes against women were much lower per capita than here in the states. Most studies pointed towards the legalized prostitution as major cause of this. It does also rid you of some low lifes etc., but illegal prostitution was still noticeable. At least the transmitance of disease was lowered by regular testing of licensed prostitutes. I do think we as a country are not mature enough to handle that, to many hypocrites to make that possible. | |
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longte
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Joined: 10/18/2004
Msg: 5 | |
| legal prostitution
Posted: 8/11/2005 1:07:44 AM | "Either/ Or the objective is to reduce the trade in young girls"
That is the beauty of legitimising it
If it were legal, then nobody underage would be allowed
They would actively remove underagers to protect their businesses
Run as a business, it would have to be run as cleanly as possible
This would remove some of the criminal element
It is legal in Australia, but no-one with a criminal record is allowed to own a brothel
This cleaned things up a lot
I have done a fair bit of work with street kids, and they are a bit safer now than before
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| legal prostitution
Posted: 8/11/2005 1:46:15 AM | I am not for legalizing it, regardless what 'Social Ills' it supposedly cures.
Its just wrong by example in my view. As a Society, we condone it if we make it legal.
In fact they just stepped up the local Laws around here and they are working quite well.
To me, more a Matter of Principle than whatever debatable Solutions it poses.
Will Drug Addicts still pimp themselves if it were to become legal?
Of course, they would never meet the Regulations anyways, therefore it has little to do with what is written down in the Lawbooks.
Besides, no Brothel wouldn't be able to compete with them Price-Wise anyways, then the Police would be after them to bust them for breaking yet other newer Regulations which carry even less Penalties.
But the Penalties for engaging into Communications for the purpose of soliciting Prostitution if caught are major deterrants.
yes, yes ... I realize they'll just do it in their dumpster anyways, they'll all get AIDS and then the World will come to an end.
In this case, I favour "Principle" over "Liabilities". | |
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| legal prostitution
Posted: 8/11/2005 4:54:37 AM | Prostitution is the oldest business in the world, that some countries have legalized it even accepted it as an tax decutable job just shows growth and maturity in thinking...
Morally whats the lesser evil ... a guy going to an leagal aged woman paying for sex ... or a guy going to a disco getting a girl drunk and then rapeing her ...
the countries who have legalized show a far lesser statistic in rape and sexual misconduct on minors ...
I dont know how things are run in most countries, but here in germany the laws are very strict the girls go for testing each day and as soon as something shows up wrong they of the street. legal brothel forbid the sex without condome and with the education the girls now have most of them wont do it without ...
i agree on one point the illegal sale of girls and the prostitution of underage girls needs to be stopped and most countries work hard on that ...
regards soulless | |
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| legal prostitution
Posted: 8/11/2005 5:02:40 AM |
Morally whats the lesser evil ... a guy going to an leagal aged woman paying for sex ... or a guy going to a disco getting a girl drunk and then rapeing her ...
??!!! | |
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| legal prostitution
Posted: 8/11/2005 5:58:51 AM | Meaning ...
what would u prefer someone paying for sex or somone that rapes a person ...
i think i go for the paying for sex ...
that is morally better...
hope that clarifies it for u
soulless | |
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| legal prostitution
Posted: 8/11/2005 7:58:00 AM | | I say why not legalize it. Ultimately, no one gets hurt, if a married person does it, then their marriage must suck anyway. Though I think people rape for the power trip or something other than just the sex, so that would probably still continue. | |
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| legal prostitution
Posted: 8/11/2005 8:14:03 AM | 'if a married person does it, then their marriage must suck anyway"
Or, they're just being a whiny pansy who needs to find an excuse to have extramarital affairs.
I know many people who had a "good marriage" until one or the other decided to get a bee in their bonnet about one small thing and the next thing you know, theirs is a marriage from hell all because of the dramatizations of one.
Just because a married man goes to a prostitute, doesn't mean his marriage sucks. It means he's unfaithful. There's no excuse for that. None. | |
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longte
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Joined: 10/18/2004
Msg: 13 | |
| legal prostitution
Posted: 8/11/2005 9:56:02 AM | I find this a little bit strange
Lots of people against prostitution of any kind
On a website where it is extremely difficult to find romance on here anywhere
Lots and Lots of topics on Sex, but very very few on Love Making or romance???
There are statistics available that prove legalising prostitution, and running it under strict controls does the following;
Removes most of the criminal element from prostitution rackets
Lowers dramatically the drug usage among prostitutes
Removes underage prostitutes
Removes pimps from the scene
Prostitution will always be there
Right now some street kid is being given drugs to get him/her addicted
They are being given these by pimps
In a week or two, these kids will be working on a whorehouse somewhere
They will enter a life that is very difficult o escape from
For that reason alone, prostitution should be legalised
If you remove the criminality, you remove the criminals
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| legal prostitution
Posted: 8/11/2005 10:04:09 AM | "if you remove the criminality, you remove the criminals"
No.
You just make them have to work harder.
That's like guns and drugs.
Where there's a demand, there'll always be a supply.
There'll always be illegal prostitutes, there'll always be exploitation of minors. | |
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| legal prostitution
Posted: 8/11/2005 10:38:03 AM | longte ... i agree with you a hundred procent but i guess me being from Germany and seeing they way it is run legally and having a different moral upbringing then americans...
i mean sorry americans are just to puritan ... the say oh nor never ... bad people ... bad morals ... but behind closed doors and in dark alleys they do the unspeakable ...
my view and i lived in the states 10 years to have witnessed that kind of attitude ...
regards soulless | |
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| legal prostitution
Posted: 8/11/2005 3:28:51 PM | i agree onthe the legalization , i am from canada
and its true bout some of the american side of things, they always say, that is so bad , dont do that
and then that same person, goes down some dark alley and does that same thing they said was bad
eg. George w bush, bill clinton, etc etc | |
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jimi77
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Joined: 7/13/2004
Msg: 17 | |
| legal prostitution
Posted: 8/11/2005 3:43:12 PM | so now the drunk or druggie has yet another vice to add to his list..
also i think it dose hurt the women in the long run. most are drug addicts just to cope with the shame of it.. givein the choice to work at something they like or be a prostitute for the same pay i bet most would work.
lets treat a lady like a piece of throw away meat.. they are tons of women i would have loved to bag.. but i never died becasue i dident get the chance..
Personaly i believe this tears a women apart from the soul outward..
I agree with tickets point of view on this one. | |
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| legal prostitution
Posted: 8/11/2005 3:45:21 PM | | I wish it was legal. The way things are, it's too much of a hassle finding one. I looked online but I got paranoid about fake ads put up by police. So how do you find one? They don't wear name tags or uniforms. If they were legal maybe they would send out coupons in the mail, and I could get a two for one on my birthday. If it was legal and the price came down, I could go ten bucks once every six months. That would keep me satisfied. | |
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longte
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Joined: 10/18/2004
Msg: 19 | |
| legal prostitution
Posted: 8/11/2005 4:26:39 PM | "if you remove the criminality, you remove the criminals" No. You just make them have to work harder. That's like guns and drugs. Where there's a demand, there'll always be a supply. There'll always be illegal prostitutes, there'll always be exploitation of minors. If prostitution is legal then than can be no such thing as illegal prostitutes Once the Drugs are removed from prostitution, the dealers and pimps leave also A lot of women work to sustain habits given to them by their pimps If the pimps are removed, this would not happen again Yes there will still be child exploitation But to a vastly smaller ammount Because child exploitation, is just a part or something else illegal,[prostitution], the people involved are safe, as nobody will report it When prostitution is legal, the prostitutes themselves protect kids The typical prostitute will no longer use drugs Therefore they dont want children involved as competition etc It took two years in Australia to make a large difference But now the street dealers are way down in mumber Street kids have a chance of survival Pimps are virtually nonexistant ... .. . so now the drunk or druggie has yet another vice to add to his list..
They already have this now
Legalising it removes the majority of both the drunks and the druggies from the scene
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| legal prostitution
Posted: 8/11/2005 4:41:34 PM | This is taken directly from a SPOC (Sex Professional of Canada) affiliated site.
Legalization views prostitution as a vice that needs to be heavily contained and controlled. In places that have legalization systems, such as Amsterdam, Germany and the State of Victoria in Australia etc., sex pros must regisister at the police station, be photographed, fingerprinted and give very personal info about themselves to the police. (Anyone previously convicted of prostitution is denied a licence).
Which doesn't make a whole lot of sense does it?
One can only work in certain licenced areas, and those brothel owners that end up owning the (hughly expensive) licences are usually rather unsavoury people, best to be avoided.
Poeple in this industry should not be regulated into sex gettoes. SPOC disagrees with any kind of segragation.
If you work without a licence, it remains entirely illegal. Licenced sex pro`s must pay (equivelent CDN dollars) thousands in licence fees per year to authorities ). For that we don`t get any help or protection at all.
In legalized systems, typically, the house takes 50%, then the government takes another 25%, (of the gross, not the net, in the form of "sin" taxes ). (We are not a package of cigarettes or a bottle of alcohol). So we`re, (after they charge us inflated prices for such basics as clean sheets, soap, meals, usually the cheapest take-out food), are lucky to take home 25%. This, after we have done the actual work!
Also usually, it`s 12 hour shifts and we do not have right of refusal, ie., if a client wants a certain kind of sex we`re not comfortable with, well, then we still have to do it. We, at SPOC, call that sexual assault.
Many ordinary Canadians have their hearts in the right place, and will say things like, "There is nothing wrong with prostitution, they should legalize it and the girls can have health checks". Unfortunately this majority of Canadians do not have access to the real info re decriminalization, legalization and criminalization. And who can blame them for thinking this way? It`s not like they can walk into a library or read a newspaper and get that info. (We at SPOC have been speaking at universities and doing media, for years, but it clearly is not enough). Aside from the general ignorance of pro's legal issues, let's talk about forced STI (sexually transmitted infection) checks. All sexually active people should be responsible for their own sexual health. No, you can't fob off that responsibility on to a government official so you can have unsafe sex with us.
What we've seen happen in places like Germany, where they have legalization and forced STI checks, is that the checks are done on Thursdays. The pro then has to display her Grade A Disease Free Meat certificate on the wall of her room. (While the brothels officially state they insist on condom use, the girls tell a very different tale). The client then walks in, checks that she's disease free and says, "Great, you don't have anything! I'm not wearing a condom".
The reason we can get clients to use condoms is because they're concerned about getting something
from us, not because they're worried about giving us an STI. When that "bargaining
chip" is taken out of the equation, we're left with no way to protect ourselves. Also, if a pro does contract a STI, from coersive unsafe sex, her licence is revoked and a new girl is brought in.
Finally, we at SPOC have all agreed to refuse outright to participate in any kind of government legalization schemes.
While we do take an active role in our sexual health, we will not allow any agents of government to be poking and prodding around our vaginas.
Forget that we'll work illegally, like we do now.
DECRIMINALIZATION
Decriminalization views prostitution as a legitimate and nessesary business. Its implementation would entails removing prostitution related offences from the Canadian Criminal Code, for adults involved in this profession. In places that have decriminalization, such as the state of New South Wales, Australia, sex pro's may operate freely, without the threat of criminal charges and / or the state seizing their assets.
Brothel licences are not required, so sex pro's can open their own operations. Individual sex pro's do not require a licence. However if a brothel is being a true nuisance to its neighbours, it can be shut down. Which is fair. Brothels have only had to be shut down in rare intances.
Street pro's may not work within 200 meters of a place of worship, school or a hospital. Also fair.
Itis rare for a sex pro to be assaulted in Sydney, Australia and when it does occure the police and courts take it very seriously, unlike the current situation in Canada.
Sex pro's in places that are decriminalized pay income taxes at the same rate as any other small business owner.
It is SPOC's view that the Living On the Avails section of the Canadian Criminal Code should be abolished. Anyone abusing sex pro's should be charged with the appropriate offence, whether it be assault, sexual assault, extortion, forcible confinement etc. Currently it is illegal for us to live with someone or to even be " habitually " in someone's company. Also, under the procurring law, anyone who, " lives wholly or in part " on our earnings can be charged and convicted of, " Living On the Avails ". This law does nothing to protect us. Instead, it infantilizes us. Adult prostitutes are equipped with the same intellectual capabilities as other people.
Please know that no government or religion in history, including the most repressive, (i.e. those that have the death penalty for prostitution, Iran, Afganistan, etc.) have ever been able to eradicate our noble profession. For the simple reasons that money and sex are so much more powerful governments and / or religions.
It is beyond time for the Canadian federal government to decriminalize our profession.
Thanks. More soon on Canada's defacto death penalty for prostitution. | |
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| legal prostitution
Posted: 8/11/2005 4:43:01 PM | How do you plan to remove the drugs?
Do you plan to legalize them too? I mean, that would follow the same logic. Make everything legal so we dont have to worry about criminals.
When do you suggest this sort of thinking ends? | |
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| legal prostitution
Posted: 8/11/2005 4:46:22 PM | Also, for further information on why there are so many shady characters in this type of work look at Victor Malarak's The Natasha's to learn about what this underworld is actually about.
I do work in the industry and NO, NOT AS A WORKING GIRL. It is an amazing subculture that amazes me everyday with how everyone handles it. | |
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| legal prostitution
Posted: 8/11/2005 4:55:26 PM | I don't think Prostitution should be available as a Convinience.
A spur of the Moment Fight between a Couple could lead to Acts of Prostitution out of Resentment, Spite or means to retaliate against the other, which could in many cases, lead to break-ups.
Further, if legally condoned, those who would never pay for sex might otherwise think that Prostitution must be a socially acceptable thing as the State obviously allows and regulates it.
I believe if anything, it would expand the client base of Prostitution. I think it will breed yet other not so obvious Ills.
And further, I think its a major Confidence Crusher, in that a Wife would be painfully aware how easy it would now be for Hubby to play with a Sex Trade Worker. As long as a Deterrant is in Force, most People will heed them, knowing if they get busted, their Pic may show up in a local Police Bulletin Issue.
Most of the Prostitution comes out of Skid Row, the result of Drug Addiction, not Choice. Prostitution Laws would have little if any effect on that, as Regulations would not provide the means to Drugs.
Anti-Prostitution Laws have far more Teeth than Regulations that Administer the Sex Trade.
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longte
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Joined: 10/18/2004
Msg: 24 | |
| legal prostitution
Posted: 8/11/2005 5:11:30 PM | 'How do you plan to remove the drugs?
Do you plan to legalize them too? I mean, that would follow the same logic. Make everything legal so we dont have to worry about criminals.
When do you suggest this sort of thinking ends? '
In Australia, and I can only speak of here, prostitution used to be made up of three groups of people
First you had a Pimp
He found a woman , or street kid, and got them hooked, usually on heroin
Then you had the woman, kid [see above], who is now hooked on drugs and has to get money by whatever means
Lastly you had the dealer
He supplied the pimp with the drugs for the women he controlled
Once you remove the pimp from the picture, you remove the drugs
As I said previously, it took two years to clean it up here
But it did clean itself up very well
There are still occassional problems, but nothing like before
Street crime in the inner city is way down
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| legal prostitution
Posted: 8/11/2005 5:34:28 PM | He found a woman , or street kid, and got them hooked, usually on heroin
Just a point here, that can occur, Prostitution Laws or not.
Although I have little in the Way of Stats, Drug Usage is often quite rampant already before she even becomes aware she has a Problem and then sometimes seeks the protection of a Pimp to acquire Money to purchase Drugs.
First and foremost she get addicted to drugs, more often through association of her Peers.
Its when the problem gets out of Control that she ends up connnecting up with Drug Dealers and Pimps. And yes, there have been plenty of Stories in the Papers about Pimps seeking out young/new girls, but its not that common up this way.
Once you remove the pimp from the picture, you remove the drugs
That I know isn't necessarily true, as many do not rely on Pimps for Drugs. Once they have become hooked on Drugs, they prostitute themselves, Pimp or no Pimp.
My only point here, Prostitution comes about because of a drug Problem. Very few hard Addicts ever shake it. They get sent to rehab, then they lapse again. Needle-exchange programs also haven't helped. Skid Row is still expanding despite all well-meant efforts.
I have spoken with many in the Police Force that have worked this beat for Decades.
The majority die before they ever break their Drug Habits. And they will prostitute themselves right down to the end, Regulations or not.
Setting up licensed Brothels will not get rid of that problem, as its too closely tied in with Drugs, Life & Death. Short of watching someone 24 hours a day, or sending them off to Prison or Labour Camps, there is not much in terms of Rehabs that would work with any Level of Consistancy.
No arguments here ... just some points to consider ... | |
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