| Satanism and the Left Hand Path
Posted: 8/22/2005 11:57:15 AM | How many folks know what this is all about?How many have read The Satanic Bible and are familiar with Anton LaVey or any of the others like Micheal Aquino of the Temple of Set who came after?What is your take on it?
Do you believe that Satanic Ritual Abuse is real or an urband myth? | |
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| Satanism and the Left Hand Path
Posted: 8/22/2005 1:11:25 PM | | I belive that there are peole who abuse others sexualy, mentaly and phisicaly in the name of satanism. But probless less so than do in the name of Christianity (being that its a far more widespread religion) I don't actualy belive that religion is the cause of people misstreating others, its just used as a scapegoat (just as violence in movies is). The basic tenants of satanism suprisingly have nothing to do with religion. They state that you sould do whatever you feel comfortable doing to gain fortune, respect and adoration. They also state that mankind is nothing more than an animal and as such sould not deny his primitive urges, if you feel jelous, find some way to make yourself feel satisfied with what you have so you don't feel jelous. Basicaly satanism isnt a religion, its a selfish mindset. | |
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| Satanism and the Left Hand Path
Posted: 8/22/2005 6:00:49 PM | What's interesting is that if you look on the net now,you'll find all sorts of Satanic organizations that have popped up since LaVey.Kids who weren't around when LaVey was active have taken the belief and made their own organizations.There are "Spiritual/Theistic Satanists","Traditional Satanists" and "Modern/Laveyan Satanists".Some believe in a lirteral Satan diety,others believe Satan to be a metaphor (as LaVey did).
As with everything,I don't think all of it is necessarily bad.Some folks have found their place in this belief and it works for them. | |
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| Satanism and the Left Hand Path
Posted: 8/22/2005 6:26:43 PM | Satanism isn't evil, nor is it the belief in the Devil.
Satanism is the belief in Chaos. Chaos is simple, it is the principle that ANYTHING can happen, at ANY time at ANY place without cause or reason. That's why its Chaos.
Disuading that Chaos exists, is basically saying that the world shouldn't exist, because Chaos principles are all around us. Structure from Chaos, Order from Structure. | |
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| Satanism and the Left Hand Path
Posted: 8/22/2005 6:33:16 PM | I read the Satanic bible (I have an open mind and like to see the other side of the story.)
Its the epidomy of Selfishness. If you want something, take it, by force if necessary. Who does it hurt? Who cares? What laws are broken? Who cares? As long as I get it then I'm happy. Thats satanism in the most basic form.
I believe its alive and well. In fact, I see it increasing daily. However, I think most are unaware of its presents. But then again, its said that Satan is the ultimate deceiver.
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| Satanism and the Left Hand Path
Posted: 8/22/2005 6:35:28 PM | Chaos only works in conjunction with Order though. Anarchy cannot truely exist without anything else, neither can Chaos. They both must have some form of universal balance within their environment that's the problem.
Without some basic law or tenant nothing can exist. No community has ever survived without Law. So how could that work otherwise? | |
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longte
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Joined: 10/18/2004
Msg: 7 | |
| Satanism and the Left Hand Path
Posted: 8/22/2005 6:53:03 PM | Satanic Ritual Abuse happens
Very nasty stuff
Very difficult to recover from
Very difficult to treat
Lots of drugs involved usually
They usually make their victims get involved in committing, or believing that they committed, similar types of offences
That way the victim is scared to come forward
This keeps most cases of this under wraps
Some very high profile people have links to these practices
But most people doing the abusing are not actually Satanists
They are just paedophiles going under that banner as a way to justify their actions
Any suspicion of these types of activity should be handled Very Carefully
Power is the main reason for this
If powerful people are involved, investigations can be very messy
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| Satanism and the Left Hand Path
Posted: 8/22/2005 6:54:30 PM | | Thats the idea of Satanism as a Cult going way too far. Cults which break moral and ethical standards on human rights should be considered illegal. | |
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| Satanism and the Left Hand Path
Posted: 8/22/2005 9:13:55 PM | As far as I know there hasn't been a single documented case of Satanic ritual abuse. There have been cases of psychologists asking leading questions to people under hypnosis. This is a well documented way of producing false memories (I discovered this in my research of UFO's incidentally). On the other hand we know that the Catholic Church has had systemic problems with child abuse (and less famously so has the Jehovah's Witnesses).
I've read the Satanic Bible and agree with most of it. There seems to be little difference between Satanic ethics and Objectivist ethics. The essence of Satanic ethics is found in the 9 Satanic Statements. Probably any site on Satanism will list them. IIRC www.satanism101.com also lists the Satanic "commandments." One of these says not to harm children. So a "true" Satanist will never abuse children. The Bible, OTOH, tells us not to spare the rod and to kill children who don't honor their parents.
Satanism is definitely not a touchy-feely religion. However, it does teach kindness to those who deserve it.
The Temple of Set, as I understand it, is not a Satanic religion. Instead their beliefs are based around the Egyptian god Set.
Satanism is a left hand path religion, which I take to mean it is centered around doing what is right for the individual. LaVey, at an early age, discovered a lot of hypocrisy in right hand path followers. The same people who condemned drunkeness and pornography on Sunday, were getting drunk at strip clubs on Saturday. | |
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| Satanism and the Left Hand Path
Posted: 8/22/2005 9:19:18 PM | The Question of Religion and Ethics is definately an interesting one.
I haven't read the Satanic Bible however I'd probably assume that within the bounds of Chaos, Chaos being an order of perpetuity, that it understands it must self-propogate and not kill itself off. Thus, it must have some form of order within itself.
Paganism is the perfect example of a Religion which honors Chaos, since it allows for the "unknown" the "known" the "artificial" and the "hypothetical". Paganism allows for a wide range of things including acceptance of other religions and principles within its "climate"
The Romans for example existed in harmony with many races, sects and religions for hundreds of years before Christianity, yet almost all of the Civil Wars, Disorder, and Issues happened AFTER the Empire started converting to Christian beleifs.
Go figure.
I believe in Chaos, therefor I'm a Satanist but a Satanist Dieist (go figure). | |
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| Satanism and the Left Hand Path
Posted: 8/22/2005 10:02:26 PM |
Without some basic law or tenant nothing can exist. No community has ever survived without Law. So how could that work otherwise?
A community must first exist before they can create a law.
Which cam first the chicken or the egg? I say the chicken in this case or the community.
I don't see how anything is required for existence except existence. Some would say the thought of existence, such as I think therefore I am. But I think that existence is the only thing that is required for existence.
As far as the selfishness thing. We are all selfish by nature and it is required for survival created by God and or the Creator/Universe. I don't see how anything could possibly exist outside the Creator even Satan or the concept of Satan and all the practices thereof. I don't see how Satan could be anything except a "tool" or form of entertainment for Creator/God/All-Powerful Force(APuF for short). | |
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| Satanism and the Left Hand Path
Posted: 8/22/2005 10:48:02 PM | | I read it. Aside from all the hocus pocus mumbo jumbo, it's a pretty sad story. According to him, he started as a boy preacher with travelling shows and was turned by the hypocrisy of Christians - attend the revival meeting, then came back late at night to pay for sex. He didn't even reject the Christian bible, just picked the guy in it destined to lose. For that reason, Satanism isn't really a cult, just a bogie man for some Christian hucksters. If you're going to reject Christianity, you're going to reject it, not believe it all then worship the other guy. | |
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longte
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Joined: 10/18/2004
Msg: 13 | |
| Satanism and the Left Hand Path
Posted: 8/25/2005 2:44:14 AM | Hi Count
Yes there have been several cases of Ritual satanic abuse
I have done a lot of work with Abused kids here
It is not a nice thing
the facts are there but are covered up very well
but as I said in my original post
The Abusers are not true Satanists
Just as Mr Jones was not a true christian
Child Abuse is any form is terrible, But Ritual abuse is so much worse
It is there, It does happen
The Satanic influence is used to cover up paedophiles
Yes All religions have had had Paedophiles
But the hardest cases to 'fix' are those of ritual satanic abuse
I put "" around 'Fix' be cause Fx is not the right word
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| Satanism and the Left Hand Path
Posted: 8/25/2005 6:47:16 AM | | If you do a google search on LaVey and find the page, "LaVey:Myth vs. Reality",there are some very interesting things there.His estranged daughter,Zeena,renounced her father in 1990 and joined the Temple of Set.On the page she and Micheal Aquino debunk many of the claims LaVey made about himself.For one thing,the first few chapters of the Satanic Bible were plagarized word of word from a much older book called "Might is Right" by Ragnar Redbeard.Moreover,many of the claims Lavey made about himself were debunked.He never worked for the circus and never knew the late Maralyn Monroe.He used the media to create for himself an urband legend. | |
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| Satanism and the Left Hand Path
Posted: 8/25/2005 8:33:14 PM | | I don't think LaVey's character much matters. How many Satanists, when faced with a moral dilemma, ask themselves, What Would Anton Do? | |
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| Satanism and the Left Hand Path
Posted: 8/26/2005 3:12:27 AM | There were alot of folks at the time who were really into his spiel hook,line and sinker.There were popular bands in the 70's that read excerpts from the SB at concerts.He made some big claims.Like everythng from inadvertedtly causing Jayne Mansfield's death to being a technical advisor on Rosemary's Baby (which there never was one).The end of the LaVey saga reads like a bad soap opera.His two daughters fighting over scraps of memorabilia.His infamous Black House in San Francisco was demolished.
I still find it interesting that so many young occultists started up their own organizations after LaVey.Another one who later turned out to be a BS artist was Christian comedian Mike Warnke.He was the one who claimed to be a member of a Satanic coven until he found Christianity.Many who knew him in the 60's have debunked his claims as well. | |
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| Satanism and the Left Hand Path
Posted: 11/12/2005 11:47:22 PM | taurus516:
How many folks know what this is all about?
Judging from the replies, not many at all.
How many have read The Satanic Bible and are familiar with Anton LaVey or any of the others like Micheal Aquino of the Temple of Set who came after?What is your take on it?
I own two copies, a newer paperback edition and an older hardcover. I also own copies of The Satanic Rituals, The Satanic Witch, The Devil's Notebook, Satan Speaks (all of which are authored by Dr. LaVey), as well as The Secret Life of a Satanist, and The Church of Satan, authored by Blanche Barton. I'm also familiar with the soap opera involving those who were excommunicated from the CoS many years ago and who subsequently went on to form the Temple of Set. Let's not forget about the First Church of Satan and it's founder, Lord Egan. On second thought, LET'S DO! My take on it: Dr. Anton LaVey founded the Church of Satan. Before him, there was no such thing as Satanism. Any other self proclaimed "religion" or philosophy simply IS NOT Satanism. It IS all black and white. It is clearly defined with no room for personal (mis)interpretation. These other organizations want to receive recognition for something they had no hand in creating. Disgruntled leeches and coattail riders is all they are.
Do you believe that Satanic Ritual Abuse is real or an urband myth?
It's a lie. The "Satanic Panic" was nothing more than a ploy to snare your attention and grab ratings on TV, an attempt to sell more newspapers. If there ever were any documented legal cases of people being abused or tortured against their will or murdered during what might appear to be a "Satanic ritual", none of the participants were ever proven to be members of the Church of Satan. I guess the media's attempt to get attention and sell their story worked, after all, 20 years later we're still discussing it. But then again, stupid people will always fear and hate that which they are incapable or unwilling to understand. | |
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longte
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Joined: 10/18/2004
Msg: 18 | |
| Satanism and the Left Hand Path
Posted: 11/13/2005 12:01:39 AM | ""It's a lie. The "Satanic Panic" was nothing more than a ploy to snare your attention and grab ratings on TV, an attempt to sell more newspapers. If there ever were any documented legal cases of people being abused or tortured against their will or murdered during what might appear to be a "Satanic ritual", none of the participants were ever proven to be members of the Church of Satan. I guess the media's attempt to get attention and sell their story worked, after all, 20 years later we're still discussing it. But then again, stupid people will always fear and hate that which they are incapable or unwilling to understand""
Ritual Satanic Abuse happens
It has happened in the past and will happen in the future
You are correct in that as far as I am aware none of the abusers were "officially recognised as belonging to the Church of Satan".
This did not, and does not, appear to stop them using rituals heavily involving that Churches Satanic symboligy
Remeber the old saying that if it walks like a duck, and looks like a duck, it probably is a duck, no matter what else you decide to call it
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| Satanism and the Left Hand Path
Posted: 11/13/2005 12:07:42 AM | Scoobydo:
I read the Satanic bible (I have an open mind and like to see the other side of the story.)
Its the epidomy of Selfishness. If you want something, take it, by force if necessary. Who does it hurt? Who cares? What laws are broken? Who cares? As long as I get it then I'm happy.
Umm. You may THINK you have an open mind, but you obviously didn't have open EYES when you read it. Allow me to quote from The 11 Satanic Rules of the Earth:
#6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.
I think it's wonderful that you have acquired the ability to read, now let's work on COMPREHENSION.
Thats satanism in the most basic form.
No, what you described is one simply being an ***hole. No one likes an ***hole, not even Satan. | |
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| Satanism and the Left Hand Path
Posted: 11/13/2005 12:19:55 AM |
Ritual Satanic Abuse happens
It has happened in the past and will happen in the future
You are correct in that as far as I am aware none of the abusers were "officially recognised as belonging to the Church of Satan".
This did not, and does not, appear to stop them using rituals heavily involving that Churches Satanic symboligy
Oh I don't doubt that it has happened. This world is filled with plenty of people who do what the voices in their head tell them to do. My point is that no one involved in such things has ever been confirmed as a registered member of the Church of Satan at any point in time.
This did not, and does not, appear to stop them using rituals heavily involving that Churches Satanic symboligy
True, the CoS owns the trademark Sigil of Baphomet as featured on the cover of The Satanic Bible. But it doesn't stop people from "borrowing" (stealing) it either. The CoS has fought several legal battles over the rights to their trademarked symbols. The First Chruch of Satan's sigil used to resemble the Sigil of Baphomet a hell of a lot more than it currently does until John Allee(Lord Egan) altered it slightly to avoid prosecution. | |
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| Satanism and the Left Hand Path
Posted: 11/13/2005 2:55:13 AM | My take on Satanism is this.
It is a way of life that tries to be honest with itself and its followers.
If it were written as an essay on the human condition and presented as a philosopical perspective rather than a religion then I might even consider it a representation of some of my ideas.
As it is, it deliberately used the Christian Boogeyman as its namesake and was represented as a religious doctrine regardless of its practices. As such I don't have much respect for Satanism. I won't bash it as I find I agree with a lot of what it has to say, but I would never call myself a follower of it, nor would I referr to it as anything other than a very interesting read.
Satanism is a very selfish way of looking at the world, but it is not destructively so. It is an acceptance of the weakness of the flesh and a discussion of advisable courses of action to handle those weaknesses. | |
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| Satanism and the Left Hand Path
Posted: 11/13/2005 8:38:43 AM | True, the CoS owns the trademark Sigil of Baphomet as featured on the cover of The Satanic Bible.
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I think it was proven that since the Sygil of Baphomet was of antiquity dating back a few thousand years,it could NOT be trademarked and was therefore considered public domain.There is a site about LaVey:Legend vs. Reality that's quite interesting. | |
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| Satanism and the Left Hand Path
Posted: 11/14/2005 2:33:24 PM | taurus516:
There is a site about LaVey:Legend vs. Reality that's quite interesting.
Yes there is. But not everything posted on the world wide web is nesseccarily true. Since that page was created by officials within the ToS, it isn't hard to imagine why it wouldn't be true. As part of human nature, no one likes to feel inferior, incompetent or incapable. Perhaps they're just a little peeved that they were permanently banished from the ranks of the CoS. Perhaps they're peeved that their membership numbers will never come close to equaling that of the CoS. Internet flaming between "Satanic" (or should I say "pseudo-Satanic") organizations has gone on for quite some time. At one time there was a page exposing Lord Egan of the FCoS for some of his lesser known and quite despicible actions and words, all of which to my knowledge was true. Nevertheless, I for one would not condone such practices. The best way to deal with psychic vampires is to give them no thought. Without thoughts or attention, they stave and die. For this reason, you will NEVER see a page that is endorsed by or run by the CoS or any of it's above-ground members which flames any other pseudo-Satanic church/organization. I use these exact words because there COULD be a case where a page is actually owned by a CoS member, however, the owner of the page will never claim to be a CoS member. If that person IS a member, the public will never know because the CoS DOES NOT and WILL NOT divulge the identities of it's members unless required to do so by law. | |
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| Satanism and the Left Hand Path
Posted: 11/14/2005 3:19:52 PM | infornography:
It is a way of life that tries to be honest with itself and its followers.
The CoS is not a religion of followers. A Satanist either resonates with the attributes described in the Satanic Bible, or he ISN'T a Satanist. No one becomes a Satanist, Satanism is not an evangelical religion seeking to gain as many members as possible. The CoS does not seek to change the behavioral patterns of mankind. The CoS is an organization of likeminded individuals who wish to network for their own goals and the goals of those who feel as they do. There is an objective, it's not just a fan club full of couch potatoes.
If it were written as an essay on the human condition and presented as a philosopical perspective rather than a religion then I might even consider it a representation of some of my ideas.
There are essays which give certain presentations on the common human condition as well as philosophical perspectives. I would highly recommend the reading of The Devil's Notebook and Satan Speaks, which are both collections of essays by Dr. LaVey. They don't give a full definition of what Satanism is though. He had already written The Satanic Bible for that purpose.
As it is, it deliberately used the Christian Boogeyman as its namesake and was represented as a religious doctrine regardless of its practices. As such I don't have much respect for Satanism. I won't bash it as I find I agree with a lot of what it has to say, but I would never call myself a follower of it, nor would I referr to it as anything other than a very interesting read.
Satan was used as an achetype to personify the religion. Satan was the adversary. It is a different way of thinking, a way which is the adversary of those who oppose the denial of certain things based solely upon faith. It is the adversary of those who oppose individuality. It is the adversary of those who oppose progress. It's also a bit of a filter. It filters out those who still have some reservations about completely abandoning herd conformity.
Satanic rituals are nothing different from the average goings on in some catholic traditional ceremony. Christians pray to a God they can't see, which makes them feel better. Satanic rituals are emotional decompression, it involves suspension of disbelief for the fulfillment of certain goals. To someone who hasn't correctly understood the meanings of specific Satanic rituals and practices, of course it seems like nothing more than Christian inversionism. Why should all the elder established religions only be called "religions"? The elders aren't always the wisest, which is another principle presented in the phrase: "quality, not quantity", which part of The Pentagonal Revisionism, a five part outline of the common goals held by the CoS and it's members.
Satanism is a very selfish way of looking at the world, but it is not destructively so. It is an acceptance of the weakness of the flesh and a discussion of advisable courses of action to handle those weaknesses.
Selfish? Yes, but that only partly describes it. It's more like "rational self interest". I suppose that's what you meant by "not destructively so." It is NOT an acceptance of the weakness of the flesh. Some people, perhaps even I, could misconstrue what you mean by that particular statement. Satanism is not a support group that makes the weak stronger, it makes the strong stronger. Perhaps if you substituted the word "condition" for "weakness" and "acknowledgement" for "acceptance" and "world" for "flesh", you would be correct. "Flesh" almost connotates the existence of a soul or an afterlife, something the CoS does not agree with. "Weakness" is not accepted. It may be acknowledged and removed or altered into a strength, but it is not accepted. Satanism is about personal stratification, not personal stagnation and accepting your limits. | |
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| Satanism and the Left Hand Path
Posted: 11/14/2005 7:15:28 PM | [Quote="Longte"]Remeber the old saying that if it walks like a duck, and looks like a duck, it probably is a duck, no matter what else you decide to call it
Then there are a whole lot of ducks in the world  | |
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