Nibe
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Joined: 6/17/2005
Msg: 1 | |
| Abortion [CLOSED - Run Its Course - Circular Discussion]
Posted: 8/26/2005 10:16:36 AM | Tis not a crime against God. God understands when a raped woman does not wish to have the child of her attacker. God understands when a person does not want to have children.
God agrees with those who choose abortion, and holds nothing against them. If they don't have kids, he says "So be it!" | |
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Posted: 8/27/2005 12:08:49 PM | I'm just stating this for the sake of argument, but in some f**ked up way wasn't Jesus the byproduct of a rape.
If the woman doesn't want the baby there are other options.
There is a difinite difference between not having kids, and killing off the ones you do.
THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT MURDER. That pretty much sums it up for me. | |
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Posted: 8/27/2005 12:31:31 PM | | If abortion is murder God should have made that more clear. Under the OT Law, commiting murder got you the death penalty. However, punching a woman in the stomach and causing a miscarriage only got you a fine. | |
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Posted: 8/27/2005 12:37:10 PM | You refer to man's laws and not God's.
Gods law is simple...THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT MURDER. | |
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Posted: 8/27/2005 12:38:20 PM | | Oh hell, just do whatever you want. God is quite forgiving. | |
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Posted: 8/27/2005 2:55:37 PM |
Oh hell, just do whatever you want. God is quite forgiving.
Only when one truley seeks forgivness and repents for their sin. | |
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Posted: 8/27/2005 6:05:42 PM | | Well if you consider the OT Law given by Moses allegedly by God to be manmade then I would agree. Of course, that includes the commandment not to commit murder. | |
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Posted: 8/27/2005 7:30:01 PM | Commitment.
You will have to answer. | |
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Posted: 8/28/2005 12:03:37 PM | ...did the Virgin Marry ask God to knock her up ???....
...maybe if there was such a thing as abortion at that time , she may have choosen it...
...it's tough being a single parent now , never mind then...
...I find nothing wrong with abortion , but on the other hand I don't think it should be used as a regular form of birth control... | |
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Posted: 8/28/2005 12:27:40 PM |
...maybe if there was such a thing as abortion at that time , she may have choosen it...
There was such a thing as abortion at the time, it was more dangerous because it required either phisicaly scraping the fetous out of the womb (without painkillers) or poisoning the body to kill of the embro or bring on miscarage, but the levels of poisons required were very poorly known.
Now there is a question that neads to be asked, at what point dose a fetus become sentient. It is important that we use the term sentient, because murder relates purely to the killing of sentient life forms.
so when dose a fetus become sentient? Is it when the heart starts beating? Or maybe when the brain begins to develop? Or perhaps when the fetus starts to move its limbs volenterily?
Untill you can say when a fetus becomes sentint it is imposibl to say when abortion is actualy murder. There-in lies the rub. | |
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Posted: 8/28/2005 12:37:08 PM | ...there are many thing I do not know or understand , but life is a ever learning journey {in regards to abortion in the days of old}..didn't think it was a practice...
...but sperms and eggs are living , so has not life already started at the point of conception ?? ...since if were allowed to continue a child may be born... | |
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Posted: 8/28/2005 1:30:05 PM | I think we should use the same deffination of death for when life begins.
When a persons certain tyoe of brainwave is not there you are considered dead. So why not use that same technique to find out when the fetus gets these certain brainwaves. | |
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Posted: 8/28/2005 4:41:04 PM | The problem with that description of death is that people are considered alive even when brain activity stops (being brain dead) Alpha beta and delta waves in the brain can all stop indapendently but restart at an time as long as one is still runing.
So how do you decide when a fetus has brain activity? is it when they have full alpha beta and delta waves? or is it when any one of them starts for the first time?
Another problem with that is that every person devolps at difrent speeds and in difrent orders, by and large we develop the same way, but for example, some people develop nails on all fingers and toes a the same time, others develop nails on the longest fingers first. So how do you judge when brain activity starts if there is no way of being certain?
Its a very tricky subject with no easy answers, I personaly belive that a fetus isnt sentient until there is brain activity, but others will disagrea and say it is earlier/later than that. We will just have to wait for better techniques I'm afraid, and untill then, er on the side of caution. | |
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Posted: 8/28/2005 6:26:34 PM |
but sperms and eggs are living , so has not life already started at the point of conception ?? ...since if were allowed to continue a child may be born.
Excellent point!!! 
It is very obvious that both sperm and egg are living at the time of conception.
Time is the only factor that comes into play, and time is a man made tool. Whether you look at the moment of conception, the first hartbeat, first movement, first thought, birth, age 1, age 2, age 50, etc., etc., etc., The same creature still exists. It has changed many times over and does not fully resemble itself at any other moment, but it is still the same creature and still exists.
Abortion is murder, plain and simple. | |
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Posted: 8/28/2005 6:44:43 PM |  I NOTE ALL THE POINTS ARE MADE BY MEN AND FIND THAT FUNNY!!
I personally feel that regardless of religeous beliefs, it is pretty much the pregnant person's choice. That doesn't mean to say that they must not or should not consult the other half of the prospective child. In some cases quite the opposite infact.
I'm very certain that any woman that has had an abortive procedure will say that not only did that decision take alot of thought, discussion and worrying, but also that they are followed around by a wondering, about that child, what/who they would have been etc...
Some women manage to leave such a decision behind them, pretty assured that in the cicumstances they did the right thing. Others will carry a guilt and self blame around for ever.
Also rape isn't the only reason someone might decide to have an abortion, other life factors usually are part and parcell to such a decision. | |
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Posted: 8/28/2005 6:56:14 PM | | I'm not sure about the rest of the USA Count, but here in Wisconsin if you punched a pregnant lady and it caused her unborn to die,it is a homicide.We dont have the death penalty in Wi. | |
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Posted: 8/28/2005 6:59:16 PM | | I've heard of such laws. It doesn't much make sense to me in a country where abortion is legal but maybe I expect too much from our representatives sometimes. However, God didn't make WI laws so I'm not sure where you're going with the comment. | |
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Posted: 8/28/2005 7:01:24 PM |
Also rape isn't the only reason someone might decide to have an abortion, other life factors usually are part and parcell to such a decision.
So, should I be able to kill someone if they are a henderance in my life that I don't want to deal with?
People say that it's the woman's choice, well your right it is the woman's choice. She can chose to commit murder or she can chose not to.
Abortion is murder!!!
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Posted: 8/28/2005 7:35:52 PM | | Why do you think abortion is murder? This is the central issue in the abortion debate but it doesn't seem to get addressed. | |
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Posted: 8/28/2005 7:40:25 PM | Ummm, could it be that it's because your killing another human life?
ding, ding, ding, yep that's why I call it murder. | |
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Posted: 8/28/2005 7:41:56 PM | Abortion can only be technicaly classed as murder if you can define when a fetus becomes sentient. Murder is the unlawfull killing of one sentient bieng by another. So until something is sentient, you are not comiting murder, otherwise EVERYONE would be going to hell for MURDURING the bacteria on thier hands every time they washed.
also it is not clear wether sperm or egg are actualy alive. One of the clasifications of a liform is something that is capable of self replicating which sperm and egg do not do. | |
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Posted: 8/28/2005 7:42:59 PM | | Count-I was only stating that it is a homicide when something like that happens.I only added the "no capital punishment" in Wi because you said this "Under the OT Law, commiting murder got you the death penalty. | |
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Posted: 8/28/2005 7:47:31 PM | Unborn babies react to the mothers emotional states and stress levels, that sounds sentient to me.
Time is still the only factor. Remove time and you have a living being. Whether a fetus or a grown person are they not the same being?
Abortion kills that being.
Abortion is murder. It's still pretty plain and simple. | |
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Posted: 8/28/2005 7:48:56 PM | | the people with the strongest opinions cannot possibly ever have the chance to deal with such a decision... | |
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Posted: 8/28/2005 7:50:43 PM | mur·der ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mûrdr)
n.
The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.
Abortion is definitly premeditated and can be full of malice.
Bacteria are not human. | |
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