| Whoah... Heavy Quotes... (political)
Posted: 3/19/2004 6:30:01 PM | I try to be light and fun in most of my posts, but I ran across this web-site yesterday and it blew my mind...
http://www.house.gov/reform/min/features/iraq_on_the_record/
It's a searchable breakdown of 237 quotes made by President Bush and others in the run up to the war in Iraq and why a) the statements were wrong and b) why the person making the statement knew they were wrong at the time they were making the statement.
(The report analyzing the quotes is here:
http://www.house.gov/reform/min/pdfs_108_2/pdfs_inves/pdf_admin_iraq_on_the_record_rep.pdf )
I know I'm more liberal than a lot of people, but does this bother anyone else?
Anywhoo... I'm off for the week-end! Have a great one and I'll chat with you all next week.
- Jordan | |
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| Re: Whoah... Heavy Quotes... (political)
Posted: 3/20/2004 5:03:05 PM | | I myself am a republican and I did think we needed to remove Sadam from power mostly because after WWII we promised the world we would remove any dictator doing mass killings. Though the fact his aminstration did lie realy upsets me and yes I think there should be charges set against all the top officals. Some one should be punished or have to step down or something but no one will. The only thing I can say is I am not voting for bush in the next election and that is one of the reasons. | |
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| Re: Whoah... Heavy Quotes... (political)
Posted: 3/20/2004 5:36:34 PM | | even though am a brit..i need to have my input..the post before mine clearly stated that after ww2..the great protector of civil rights..namely america...would remove tyranicall dictators who oppressed any other...hhmmm...what is bush doing over the palestinein,israelie affair....or the oppression in zimbabwe..the congo..lebannon...nothing...if there was copious amounts of oil in either of the above then maybe he would have "liberated" these countries from tyrannical leadership long ago,maybe in order to recover the loss brought to the stockmarket from the attrocities of 9/11..i am in no way attempting to justify the horrendous acts of that day...but the invaison of iraq was a revenge attack plain and simple,a means to establishing a foot hold in the middle east.what went on in new york on that dark day when thousands of innocent people lost their lives was unforgivable....but how many lives has the goverment of america taken due to its enforced embargos on defenceless countries...you can times the number in new york by 1000 and still be way off....sorry for posting such a controversial opinion but you guys need to know the truth,america wants to be the keeper of the world..that will no doubt be the downfall of are species...when one set voice their concerns...then the good old usa pulls out its cache of weapons of mass destruction...something which other countries arnt allowed to have..hhmmmm..heres to freedom of speech..but not freedom of choice..ciao | |
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| Re: Whoah... Heavy Quotes... (political)
Posted: 3/20/2004 7:49:01 PM | Do you guys realize how easy it is as common Joes and Brits... to critisize the powers that be? I do agree with Cartman.... and even a few of Otters points; but were blue collar workers, building an empire. Those people we elect into office... steer this great country!! I myself will vote for Bush again... do you want Kerry or running this fuken country??? Holy hell!! We needed a man that would stand up, like Regan did, and shout to the masses...NO MORE!!!!! We have that man. He may not be popular... but he doesnt have to be popular to keep you and I safe at night.
Granted, Im no political analysist... but I love this country. I would die my one single death... in order for hundreds to live. I promise you that. I have a family full of vets... and it touches me. Men willing to die so that I can sit here and talk to you about the affairs of my country.
That to me is a greater man than I could possibly ever be.
As far as what country we could have or should have helped or attacked... I think your missing the point. We made our point, and upheld our end of the bargain. Iraq wasnt for oil money... its like cartman stated... we spent more than we ever could have attained. Even if we had a shady clause.. whe had to publicly show the world that the Iraqi people would be given the oil money... and after it was all said and done... there isnt a way in hell we could have been after oil money alone. We had a stroke of genuine duty... and the only other self respecting country to assist us were the Brits...
Thats my take...Im Out!!
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| Re: Whoah... Heavy Quotes... (political)
Posted: 3/21/2004 9:24:44 AM | | i can understand certain points from both cartman and flerics replys,i blame blair..more then bush,even though it was americas decision to begin the war in iraq..his choice wouldnt have held any weight had it not been for blair pacifying the rest of europe,or at least most of it.without blairs compossure and way with words..then the un would have taken a much stronger stance,then bush would not have dared invade iraq in the first place,then we really would have seen how much cared for the plight of the iraqi people ....so while i hold certain grudges against the current regimes dished out by the white house,i hold an even heavier one against our own prime minister,mr lap dog blair.. as for cartmans point on britain and frances creation of hostilities in the middle east,whilst it may be somewhat valid,we wernt the ones who funded the israeli army so that they could rampage there way through palistien,america funded hundreds of terrorist organizations up until that terrible day of 9\11,even down to the ira..who killed many of are brave troops in ireland...terrorisim seems to be acceptale when it suits the benefactors hey. i suppose that however you look at the current affairs in the world today,someone is always taking advantages from weaker rivals,predator and prey and all that crap...oh well...guess you just got roll with it huh..until the eventual day when we wage war for the last time,and blow all are dumbasses out into space...aint life great..lol | |
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| Re: Whoah... Heavy Quotes... (political)
Posted: 3/21/2004 12:21:53 PM | Well are they patriots or terrorist. I do think all that depends on the eye of the beholder. At the time my founding fathers of the US would have looked to be terrorist in the eyes of Britain rule. History can judge whom are terrists and who aren.t. As for the US funding the IRA I have no information on that so I can't make any statement on that. I also do think it was Clinton whom smoothed over issues between Britian and the IRA wasn't it??? Though yes the US has done alot of things to bit us on our asses. Yes we funding terrorist group hey we even funded Osama Bin Ladden way back when afganistian was being occupied by USSR. Which is like any other country that funds anything in there own interst.
Also it was Britain whom created Israil. We the US once it was created become buddies with it. Also its the only true democracy in that area down there. Yes we helped them to create the best airforce in the world. I also think its kind of bad to blame Israel one sidely that is like me watching the movie Brave Heart and than yelling at you. BOTH SIDES HAVE DONE BAD THINGS. No ones hands are unclean on this issue so you can't sit on your high horse and condemn Israel. Long ago we allied our selves to Israel just as we did with britain. It also seems that there is a history of both our goverments suporting one another and trying to convince our own people to help out the other. So I don't think you should be so hard on Blair. I think he supported the US and knew we were going to war and also belived that in the end yes the world would be better without Saddam. Ok let me explain some facts to you about the US.
Most people in the US are ignorant of affairs with the out side world. I could have taken you all around the US before the first golf war and alot would have had not idea that Iraq was a country and even more would have never heard of Saddam. We are more intersted in people like Brad Pitt than Yasser Arafat. So one reason the US picked Iraq was the fact that after the first golf war every one in the US got alot if information about him and what he has done to his people. So he was an easy sell to the american people, containment in its orginal form wasn't working in Iraq also yes the sanctions oppossed on them didn't help there people. So doing what the major powers of Europe want wasn't good either. Just sit there and let the country be a hell hole with the UN trying to Cage a lion in a pig pin. Also the big bill of containment that the US paid most of was not that fun either. So here we as the US are sitting on Iraq flying planes and having troops station around trying to monitor this guy. Which also Isreal was helping us do. Year after year and his cockyness was growing again after the golf war. I mean he did kick out all inspectos even though that was in violation of the UN agreement. What did we do nothing. So from the goverments view here is a country that has violated its agreements with the UN. Its a country we have already invest alot of money and are still investing alot of money in. Its a country everyone the in the US knows about so we wont have a hard time sell them on it. 9/11 has happened we took out afghanistan easily so we are over confident of our military power in the US too and we are still geared up in war mode. So to the american people Iraq was realy a easy sell. Bush also himself maybe wanted to finish what his daddy started. Now if you don't think at that time we the US would have not gone in alone sit down and shut up. Blair was the one trying to help the US in the long run. He like a best buddy at a bar fight try to explain to bush yes we kind of need more help you can't take em all on by yourself. I do not see Blair as this puppet of the US. I think he realises that our two countries are tied together economically and historically and what one of us does realy does always effect the other. We have a long history of suporting one another I will give you an example. At the start of WWII before pearl harrbor the US as a whole wanted to do nothing about it. There were also a lot whom support the Natizies cause at that time they saw them as building up what was kind of an oppressed socieity. Roosevelt and Churchill were buddy buddy. Roosevelt was trying to sell the US on helping Britian and the Allied powers not because he was a puppet of Churchill but because he did agree with him and saw that it was a need that need to be taken care of. We even had soldiers inlist into the English army and we sent supplies by the boat load over to England even though some in the US criticized it. We as nations always have each others back. So to see you talk about blair as some pathetic pawn in the US game is sad and realy trashing I think a great man.
So if you now don't understand any of my points please tell me and I will try to explain it in another way. | |
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| Re: Whoah... Heavy Quotes... (political)
Posted: 3/21/2004 1:50:28 PM | | woah.....goddamn son...you really know your history huh...the majority of your points are as clear as the sun is bright,although the blair issue still remains to be seen,here is a man,who convinced the people who elected him,that is was in the countries,aswell as the worlds best intrests to remove saddam from power,when infact....his oppressive regime could easily have been removed in 90-91 after the first gulf war,if blair had not backed bush up over iraq,then american/british relations would no doubt have suffered to the point where the usa would have demanded the repayments of all debts owing to them by the british after your,as you put it,help and support in ww2, you seem to have gotten the impression that am anti-american,that is not the case,i only disagree with its current goverments policies over the war with iraq,one which was never going to be a contest,i respect your country as a whole,the people are second to none,and we have been allies for a very long time..it is one of the most looked up to countries on the planet,although recently the standards set by your great forefathers have slipped somewhat,this does not mean to say the quality of your people have,just that recent voting may have gone slightly awry...lol...i have no time what so ever for bush..he thinks hes john wayne in an old fashioned western...you are clearly an educated and intelligent person,like most people with these attributes,am sure you could have found a less destuctive course of action then simply marching into a country,who was on its knees,armed to the teeth using heavy handed tactics..although saddam was a monster..countries all around the world suffer similar oppressions from extreme dictatorship as part of there everyday lives...so are we,usa and uk forces,to enforce are beliefs on every one of these oppressed countries..if so then sooner or later it will be america/britain versus the rest of the world...that cannot be allowed to happen...damn your a good sparring partner.. | |
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| Re: Whoah... Heavy Quotes... (political)
Posted: 3/22/2004 12:06:46 AM | I am far from impressed with bush in the least but it was him or gore and what the hell are you going to do. As for if Blair did refuse bush I think it might have hurt the bush goverment and Brittian relation but I think the US as a whole loves are cousins across the sea and wouldn't hold a grudge we realy didn't against Germany. I mean we realy only hold grudges against Frogs but thats cause their goverment sucks. Though you guys atleast actnologe the us for our help back than. France like flips us off politicaly. Though studing WWII I have to say I think D-day during WWII would have been impossible if England didn't refuse to give up. I still take of my hat to you guys and the great Churchill for never.... I think he himself said it best so I will qoute him: Winston Chruchill
"We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender, and even if, which I do not for a moment believe, this island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our Empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British Fleet, would carry on the struggle, until in God's good time, the new world, with all its power and might, steps forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old. "
Right now in the world we live in I only think force could have been the only way to removed saddam within Iraq. But your description of how Bush is to me describes how he chose to invade Iraq. Riding in like John way as fast as he can and I think the war should have move at a snails pace and really focus on maintaining and establishing important sites. I too though wish we would have taken him down in the first golf war. I think in the long run we would have save so much lives and money but hindsight is 20/20 and at the time neither goverment was realy geared up to invade. Though if we did back then I am sure we would have had much more citizen help. I would have realy thought my goverment after cuba would have figured out both containment and sanctions realy don't work. If you chose not to learn from history what can you realy learn.
Now to realy my only rebuttal to you previous post and that is what are we to enfore are beliefs on every one of these oppressed countries. Ok well first what makes a terrorist. To make a terrorist to me is to take away all hope from that person. So much that he is willing to kill himself to take out whom he sees as the enemy. So whom are we to become the judge. We are the two nations that fought tooth and nail and never surrender against at the time the most evil and horrible person of all time. After that we made the choice that we must never allow anything like that to happen. So I do belive that we can't say what gives us the right but must say because of the horror we have seen that there must be world wide standards, world rights for all that not matter the cost no matter the blood shed must be upheld. If we don't put freedom for all above all else we are doomed to repeat over and over the atrocities of the past. If in the end to uphold these great values both brittian and the US will go it alone. IF I must be drafted to die and bleed on a foriegn battle field to give those the rights my forefathers decreed rights for all I will do it in a heart beat. The only way to have peace in the world is to take down all opressive control to try at first with honey and sweet talk but in the end if we must go in at the point of a blade. If you look at history Europe used to be the most violent and waring place on the entire globe. But now in these times it is one of the most peaceful and prosperous place in history. What is the change from now and than. The standard of living. They aren't in fear, they aren't starving they have hopes and dreams for there future. That is what make a culture peaceful. Now than what is the only form of goverment that seems to produce this form of society. Its a democracy so to me the only way to make peace in the world is we must create demorcracies. Give hope and prosperity to all and than only will these people not longer exist. | |
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| Re: Whoah... Heavy Quotes... (political)
Posted: 1/30/2006 7:39:58 PM | Here's some heavy quoting to update this long dead file...
In the news...
~Nagen,
"It’s time for us to rebuild a New Orleans, the one that should be a chocolate New Orleans and I don't care what people are saying Uptown or wherever they are. This city will be chocolate at the end of the day...This city will be a majority African-American city. It's the way God wants it to be"
*I just want to mail him chocolate barf, or maybe a nice chocolate dipped rat. Did I vote for him? *checks the record... nope, & I'm still embarressed.
~Nagen,
"...You can't have New Orleans no other way."
*grrrr... can we please have our government officals speaking with some tact...pleeeeeease?
~Nagen(again),
"Surely God is mad at America. He sent us hurricane after hurricane after hurricane, and it's destroyed and put stress on this country...Surely he doesn't approve of us being in Iraq under false pretenses. But surely he is upset at black America also..."
*Hey Nagen, news flash...if "God" is upset at anything it's your assumptive, camera ready, mentally filtered, political butt.
~Resident Alex Gerhold,
"He used the wrong dairy product to describe us. We're more Neapolitan, not chocolate"
*Now, that's funny!
Well, there you have it.
Jump on the boat... let's hear your take.
:) | |
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| Re: Whoah... Heavy Quotes... (political)
Posted: 1/31/2006 11:37:29 AM | | That Nagen sounds like an idot...I dont know who he is but if hes is incharge of something....they need to lock him in a room stapeling papers...thats more his speed. | |
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| Re: Whoah... Heavy Quotes... (political)
Posted: 2/6/2006 8:13:01 PM | He's the mayor of New Orleans, btw.
I got an email from a fellow Nola neighbor.
This is what the mayor has created... the monster borne of chocolate.
It's based on the american express commercials...
(without the pictures, you'll have to use your imagination)
The true cast of Katrina...
1 house: $160,000
(shows a neighborhood underwater)
2 cars: $50,000
(shows a Chevy truck burried by bricks)
1 boat: $25,000
(shows boats in the parking lot by pier)
60,000 "Chocolates" sent to Houston with no way back:
PRICELESS
(shows the crowd of people standing outside waiting for rescue)
...
Well, there you go people. It only took one guy a short moment on the air to set a whole wave of negativity in motion.
Good job, ya moron! | |
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| Re: Whoah... Heavy Quotes... (political)
Posted: 2/9/2006 9:42:31 PM | Nice job Rep. Lynn Woolsey, you must be a big fan of Jerry Springer.
CNN.com's Eliott C. McLaughlin wrote:
According to a blog post on Michael Moore's Web site attributed to Sheehan, the T-shirt said, "2,245 Dead. How many more?" -- a reference to the number of U.S. troops killed in Iraq.
According to a blog post on Michael Moore's Web site attributed to Sheehan, the T-shirt said, "2,245 Dead. How many more?" -- a reference to the number of U.S. troops killed in Iraq.
"She was asked to cover it up. She did not," said Sgt. Kimberly Schneider, U.S. Capitol Police spokeswoman.
Sheehan, who became a vocal war opponent after her son was killed in Iraq, was an invited guest of Rep. Lynn Woolsey, D-California. Woolsey has called for a withdrawal of troops in Iraq and supports legislation for the creation of a Department of Peace.
Yeah, that's real nice & all but encouraging a woman who you knew would protest... real mature.
Too bad it was a wasted effort. The gesture was so scoffed at, it was basicly a point for the other side. Next time you pull a political prank like that, make sure you read the rules of conduct for the area...
House rules bar demonstrations in the galleries.
hmmm, perhaps she never got that memo.
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