| Chinese Wushu/Kung Fu (fighting)
Posted: 9/6/2005 9:34:10 PM | hi...any who loves to fight using chinese wushu skills or learns it?.....let's share if you do....i would love to learn it^^ | |
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| Chinese Wushu/Kung Fu (fighting)
Posted: 9/7/2005 2:53:25 AM | kung fu is beautiful
but ground fighting is much more real deal
I used to watch ultimate fighting championship
the kung fu guys would lose as soon as it became a ground battle | |
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| Chinese Wushu/Kung Fu (fighting)
Posted: 9/7/2005 2:59:50 AM | ^^^^true
grappling is the key to winning a fight because all fights eventually end up on the ground. however, the elements in kung fu i would endorse are the quickness of punches. i have never seen a kick above the waist work in a fight with another martial artist. but, i am always willing to learn something new. | |
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| Chinese Wushu/Kung Fu (fighting)
Posted: 9/7/2005 6:55:31 PM | I have a thoerey that kung fu had a lot of grappling movements that were taken out after the communists took over.It's a fact that at first they outlawed kung fu altogether and even killed alot of the masters.Later they allowed it but took out the so called dangerous movements and turned it basically into a choreographed dance.A few masters did escape however to pass on their arts and if you look at those styles you'll see alot of grappling.
The oldest known style of kung fu in existence is called sua chio.And is similar to judo except instead of trying to land your opponent safely on his back your trying to land him on his head or break his limbs on the way down.
Other old styles that are mainly grappleing are tai chi,pakua,and eagle claw.I think that as long as you can make whatever style you like work for you then it's good.However no matter what style you practise grappleing is a range and you have to learn to control all ranges.
Likewise striking is a range you have to learn.You can see that by looking at the BJJ guys who started getting beat after a few UFC's because they neglected their striking skills.
I think kung fu/wushu is beautiful though and as long as you become proficient with that in all ranges and have a heavy emphasis on sparring you should be okay. | |
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| Chinese Wushu/Kung Fu (fighting)
Posted: 9/10/2005 2:04:42 AM | Depends on the environment...
Somehow I don't see any old wars or battles being fought with "grappling." Yes, they used weapons, depending upon technology available to them. And no grappling based "art" has weapons training as far as I know.
"Kung Fu", Wushu, Wugong, TCMA, etc. is not one thing. There are gazillions of styles. "Kicks above the waist"...there are a great many styles in chinese martial arts that have zero above the waist kicks, and the ones that do, are taught to prefer below the waist... Many kicks target the knee. If you rush to pin someone and he takes out your knee, it won't matter how good your grappling skills are.
Pakua is not based on Grappling. One popular style of it, however, does concentrate on it merely because one of the earlier guys was a wrestler - Cheng style...Yin Fu Baguazhang, however, does not do much grappling.
I am not anti-grappling at all. I think to be a good "fighter" you need to cover all the bases in your training - period. I just wanted to clear up some misconceptions.
Extremely pleasantly surprised to see this thread :) | |
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| Chinese Wushu/Kung Fu (fighting)
Posted: 9/10/2005 11:52:05 AM | I don't see any old wars or battles being fought with "grappling."
This is becuase being on the ground equals sure death when it is not a one on one fight.
If you ever get involved in a group bar fight or qausi rumble...know that elbows, knees and sharp strikes is all that you should rely on. (unless you can whip someone to the ground without getting close to the ground yourself)
I have always thought that Shaolin or the more aggressive forms of Karate combined with Juditsu makes one ready for almost any hand to hand challenge they may ever encounter.
Get the chance to learn Jeet Kun Do....and you can fill the minor gaps in your repettoire very easily by using self guides or minor, short-termed training sessions or courses. | |
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| Chinese Wushu/Kung Fu (fighting)
Posted: 9/11/2005 12:33:12 AM | Kung-Fu...is a wonderful style...but is becoming more of a way of life style rather than being used in a bar fight.....
Brazillian Jujitsu...is the way of fighting for the future..and Similar styles..
This Crap you see in the movies is hog wash...A real fight ends up on the ground unless you come across a good boxer or striker..then the fight is over ....quick...
Bruce Lee said it best..."I'm no style...I'm all styles"...
Sholin Kung-Fu remains to be My favorite form of Kung-Fu...but given the chance ..I would love to learn Hapkido..... | |
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| Chinese Wushu/Kung Fu (fighting)
Posted: 9/11/2005 2:00:40 AM | (Replying to above comments)
Kung Fu is not a style...
The "Crap you see in movies" is ...dare I say it... movie choreography?
The closest thing it comes to is what people call "Contemporary Wushu." It's the sport competitive thing that resembles gymnastics + stances of traditional arts and things that merely hint at where they came from.
Most "Shaolin" that people see today is unfortunately NOT shaolin...Some of the real shaolin that people do see today is actually quite boring. The beginning forms of it like xiaohongquan and dahongquan are fairly boring to watch in actuallity...
A "real fight" can be over real quick in many situations.
Bruce Lee studied various styles of "kung fu" before he started coming up with his own ideas. After he came up with his own ideas, he got beat in the usa by a ...kung fu... guy, so he had to change again... The "all styles" thing works well if you actually know those styles...however, knowing zero styles and saying you are "all styles" is just a wee bit retarded in my book.
He's known for mainly two styles: Wing Chun & Jeet Kune Do. Wing Chun is a tradtional southern chinese kung fu style, and Jeet Kune Do is a combination of pieces and theories (not degrading it here - it's quite smart actually, but its not for everybody).
Hapkido. I can dig that. Although not the exact same, it is similar to what is called Qin Na in chinese martial arts. Believe it or not, you probably have a chance to learn Hapkido and don't even realize it. If you're really eager to learn Hapkido, I'd suggest heading to a TaeKwonDo school, and ask the teacher for references - if they're not buttheads, they should be able to point you to someone in your town teaching it. | |
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| Chinese Wushu/Kung Fu (fighting)
Posted: 9/11/2005 2:20:42 PM | Bruce Lee studied various styles of "kung fu" before he started coming up with his own ideas. After he came up with his own ideas, he got beat in the usa by a ...kung fu... guy, so he had to change again... The "all styles" thing works well if you actually know those styles...however, knowing zero styles and saying you are "all styles" is just a wee bit retarded in my book.
....Bruce Lee was also a student of philosophy, they were more than just "Ideas" as You put..
It was a system he merged with His Beliefs..to create the Art of Jeet- Kune-Do ....
If any one Put Kung- Fu on the Map for the world to See it was Bruce Lee....
edit:After His Defeat,,,,,he also came back and rechallenged His loss, and Won...
correct me if I'm wrong he beat the Guy under 1 minute?????? | |
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| Chinese Wushu/Kung Fu (fighting)
Posted: 9/11/2005 5:46:10 PM | I used to take Karate. Over the last few years I have come to really like Jujitsu. I'm with you Dragon. My brother used to make me watch Ultimate Fighting Champion and I loved Gracie. I thought it was a very gentle yet powerful style of fighting.
Side note: Kung Fu Hussle - hilarious movie
Capoeira is really cool as well. Martial arts/dance form. | |
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| Chinese Wushu/Kung Fu (fighting)
Posted: 9/12/2005 2:23:09 PM | The truth about Bruce Lee's so called defeat from the sources I've tracked down is that it didn't happen that way at all.
He only fought him once and the whole fight involved him chasing the guy around and hitting him in the back of the head till the guy gave up.
The reason Bruce was so upset though is that Wing Chun didn't have any stratagies for that type of fighting and also because he was winded and realized his cardio was no good.
Also the fight wasn't over his being allowed to teach non-asians martial arts like in the movie.At that time there were quite a few teachers teaching non-asians martial arts.What really happened was that Bruce issued a challenge in a Chinese newspaper saying that he could defeat anyone and someone called him on it.Lo Man Jack or something like that.
When I mentioned grappling in the part up above about pakua,I meant stand up grappling and chi na.I don't believe that any style of pa kua was origanally mainly striking though I'm sure striking was a big part.
I agree about most styles of kung fu kicking below the waist as that's the way I was taught and have read alot about all styles.Seems the high kicking is only for the movies unless you just get a perfect oppurtunity.
I also agree about jeet kun do being a philosophy.I apply it to all areas of my life from martial arts to religion to music theory to dating."Take what is useful and discard the rest" and "the art is meant to serve the individual and not the individual to serve the art." | |
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| Chinese Wushu/Kung Fu (fighting)
Posted: 9/12/2005 11:47:42 PM | I've studied a few styles. Went to black belt in American Kenpo. Studied Modern Arnis and Pekiti Tirsa, (filipino knife and stick fighting) fought amateur boxing, some Jeet Kune Do, spent some time doing Judo, and studied under spetsnaz (special forces) in Systema which is a Russian martial art.
Currently I study Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and Mixed Martial Arts (UFC style for those not knowing the lingo)
It is my opinion that it's the person doing the art mostly that determines how good they will be.
Of course, that is my 2 cents only. | |
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| Chinese Wushu/Kung Fu (fighting)
Posted: 9/14/2005 2:38:44 PM | | ^^^ I agree Dougler. I am also a Black Belt in American Kenpo. Filipino Kali, stick and knife fighting as well ;) | |
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| Chinese Wushu/Kung Fu (fighting)
Posted: 9/21/2005 4:01:58 PM |
At that time there were quite a few teachers teaching non-asians martial arts.
My sensei talks all the time about how difficult it was to be non-asian and get to learn from a real master back when he was younger. He also mentions how he was treated by the other students (who were all asian) when the master wasn't looking, at least until he proved himself.
But, he's an older guy, and this might have been before then... He has never told me his age. 
His stories are always facinating, regardless of how many times I've heard them. | |
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| Chinese Wushu/Kung Fu (fighting)
Posted: 9/22/2005 4:26:04 PM | I study Chinese Martial arts...and have for about 20 years. I am currently learning Pa'kua. I have studied, wing chun, Taiji, Hsing-I, Chin na, and shuai jiao. Mind you Chin-na and shuai Jiao are part of all complete arts.
just a note. Shuai Jiao is Chinese wrestling and has been around since 300 b.C. It is similar to Jujitsu. Chin-na is joint manipulation and can be mistaken for Akido. While watching a movie called Fist of Legends (jet Li) you can see an example of Chin Na.
I think all martial arts styles are good. But the problem is that styles seperate people rather than unite them. Also I think that the UFC is a poor example of how real fights happen. there are many different reasons. 1. you and another person are agreeing to fight. I don't know about you, but most of the fights i have seen just happen, and there are usually multiple attackers. 2. Ground fighting is exelent...but what if there are multiple attackers? 3. There are rules in the UFC. There are no knives brought into play...there is no hitting to the groin, eyes...ect. There are no rules in street fighting.
All in all, I think the martial art community needs to stop saying "my style can beat your style" and work together to teach people to defend themselves. That was the intended purpose of martial arts. Every person can be beaten.
BTW Bruce lee died after falling into a coma. "The coroner's report was inconclusive, and medical authorities came up with five reasons for Lee's untimely death. However, they all agreed that it was caused by a cerebral edema (a swelling of the brain caused by a congestion of fluid). Dr. R.R. Lycette of Queen Elizabeth Hospital viewed Lee's death as a hypersensitivity to one or more of the compounds found in the headache tablet he consumed that afternoon. Although his skull showed no injury, his brain had swollen considerably, from 1,400 to 1,575 grams. None of the blood vessels were blocked or broken, so the possibility of a hemorrhage was ruled out. All of Lee's internal organs were meticulously examined, and the only "foreign" substance to be found was the Equagesic." | |
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| Chinese Wushu/Kung Fu (fighting)
Posted: 7/10/2007 5:44:00 AM | Jujitsu is great, but, as witnessed time and time again in MMA, it's not so easy to pull off moves while your opponent is grounding and pounding you. Hence, it's best to be capable on the ground and standing, the more arts you learn, the better. We can never know enough, right?
KIA's, tap outs, choke outs and best to all, *bows*
Johnny | |
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| Chinese Wushu/Kung Fu (fighting)
Posted: 7/10/2007 5:47:02 AM | Your brother used to make you watch UFC? What hold did he put you in, an annaconda? *big wink* After learning JJ, I hope you are now making him watch your shows.  Just a little levity.
KIA!
Johnny | |
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| Chinese Wushu/Kung Fu (fighting)
Posted: 7/10/2007 1:28:57 PM | Correct me if I am wrong but, doesn't kung fu mean "completion through discipline" I was told whilst taking Shoalin Hun Gar Wushu Kung Fu that anything can be Kung Fu. The Hun Gar fighting style is a low style focusing mainly on the horse stance. I mean thighs parallel to the ground horse stances. Unlike Wing Chun which is a higher stance.
I didn't get to far myself the school was tough but, I beat myself up because I couldn't seem to develop flexibility my legs are like tree trunks and as hard as I tried they never seemed to loosen up. Very good school I was at though they taught traditional weaponry and also later on they did some Judo so that you could protect yourself on the ground. | |
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| Chinese Wushu/Kung Fu (fighting)
Posted: 7/10/2007 7:30:34 PM | Comparing traditional martial arts to Ultimate fighting is like apples to oranges. UFC fighting has rules martial arts styles have no rules once you have been attack.
My father trained under Sensei Teruyuki Okazaki, Sensei Les Safar in Shotokan karate for 30 yrs. He achieved a high dan and was also a ISKF and later a JKA certified instructor. I also trained as well.
Now in Shotokan you are taught to finish an opponet with a one blow ....Ikken Hisatsu
Now that is not going to work in UFC strikes to the throat, arm , knee breaks ect. I trained in a very "hard style". Our biggest no no is to be on the ground...even though we learn some ground fighting.
Most Shotokan student who reach a higher level of dan will not participate in something like the UFC. Inside a ring is a bit diff. then inside a Dojo. I have winessed many men from diff. styles (mainly Korean, Gracie and MMA kickboxers) and leave very hurt. This also was in the 80's and early 90's.
I have never seen a student of Wing Chun walk into a dojo and challenge. Very repectful art. I have been to the underground fights... Pearl ST. in NY and I will tell you what it was the most brutal fighting I have ever seen. I watched ground fighters get hurt so bad you would think it was a movie.
I have an interest in Wing Chun now. I was lucky enough to see Grand Master William Cheung at Sifu Keith Mazza's school. Very Impressive to say the least.
I respect all styles and people who study. Find one you like and study it...only for the mind, body and defense. | |
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| Chinese Wushu/Kung Fu (fighting)
Posted: 7/10/2007 7:43:12 PM | | On another note...many schools of Karate are just a buisness. We like to call them "Store front Karate". The type of school that is very open to the publics view with no so good instructors who are in it for the money. It is a shame to see that done to some of the styles. More concern about a belt than the quality of the art. My father always taught sat morning and parents would always want to know "When will Johnny be a black belt" The universal answer in our Dojo was "Maybe Never...lots of practice and dedication and he may get a Dan" The parnts would then say so and so said two yrs and he will be a black belt" I would just watch the parent walk out and go somewhere else. That is the shame of martial arts becoming so popular. | |
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