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DMT
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Joined: 12/3/2004
Msg: 1 | |
| Is it true that the people of the US aren't taught about evolution?
Posted: 12/6/2004 10:08:59 AM | I read something on one of these threads that suggested that kids in the US are prohibited from learning about Darwinism?
This is shocking if true....can anyone tell me if it is true...and if it is then maybe some of us can do something to remedy this by bringing enlightenment to our poorly informed American cousins. | |
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| Is it true that the people of the US aren't taught about evolution?
Posted: 12/6/2004 11:55:38 AM | HEY DMT...
Is that short for dimethyltriptamine?
Had some of that a LONG time ago... has the same effects as LSD, only you smoke it and you're up in about 30 seconds... *WHEW*
Um.... Many so-called "Christian fundamentalists" (I call them republicans who want to keep people ignorant so they can jerk them around) have been twisting and shouting about darwinism ever since Darwin.
Most of us don't have this problem...
Our president has alot of these people convinced that God talks to him.
Funny huh? | |
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LadyO
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Joined: 8/26/2004
Msg: 3 | |
| Is it true that the people of the US aren't taught about evolution?
Posted: 12/6/2004 12:11:20 PM | Don't forget,
Even Darwin didn't believe it. He took back all what he said just before he died.
In Canada, you're not really taught anything. In English class you sometimes talk about God, sometimes talk about Evolution. Myself, I made it a point to help educate people on Religions and spiritual paths whenever I had the chance. :) I didn't force anything onto them, because I myself am not sure what I believe in. But having good knowledge about topics is the best type of knowledge. | |
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Klo
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Joined: 5/2/2004
Msg: 5 | |
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| Is it true that the people of the US aren't taught about evolution?
Posted: 12/6/2004 4:16:04 PM | evolution is taught in schools, a fact that is grudgingly accepted by the religious right.
just recently there was a stink over it in atlanta, GA.
cobb county schools put a disclaimer sticker in a biology text that read: this text book contains material on evolution. evolution is a theory, not a fact, regarding the origin of living things. this material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully and critically considered."
a lawyer for the school district said the sticker was meant to encourage critical thinking and that it did not emply that evolution is wrong.
a group of parents and the ACLU see it differently. they beleive "its like saying everything that follows this sticker isnt true." and is a promotion of religion.
i can see their point but no where on the sticker does it mention god or creationism which maintains the sepparation of church and state. and the fact is that evolution IS a theory like relativity or superstring. it is the best idea we have now about the science behind creatures in our universe but it is a theory and should be viewed critaically. as should all ideas. i think this was the first trully logical step that the religious right has taken. they actually supported the use of logic and critical thinking which is something that they usually suppress. so regardless of the intent behind the sticker i think the content was fine. | |
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DMT
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Joined: 12/3/2004
Msg: 7 | |
| Is it true that the people of the US aren't taught about evolution?
Posted: 12/6/2004 4:21:58 PM | Thank you all, that's interesting.
I find it very curious that neo-conservatives and colonialists (in Europe and the US) have routinely used an evolutionary discourses when arguing to bring democracy to the 'backwards', 'ignorant' other, while negating evolutionary theories in favour of encouraging very simplistic beliefs for their own voters, and future voters.
I accept that creationism and evolution are not mutually exclusive theories, even though they are often presented as though they are. It's just very strange to hear of important elements of the teaching of science being outlawed in this day and age.
I'd also be very interested to hear of when Charles Darwin refuted his theory of evolution. | |
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yna6
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Joined: 5/2/2004
Msg: 8 | |
| Is it true that the people of the US aren't taught about evolution?
Posted: 12/7/2004 1:16:33 AM | I studied evolution (Canadian school) and we were told from the first that it was a theory, with many bits of evidence that could, possibly, help prove it. We were also told that Creation was NOT going to be explored in the classroom...that was to be left to our own individual religions....we were there to learn evolution, NOT creation.
Two people were somewhat dismayed at that, but took the course anyways. A third person walked out, but recieved a "apssing grade due to religious beliefs"....sheesh...wish I coulda done that for triganomitry! | |
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DMT
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Joined: 12/3/2004
Msg: 9 | |
| Is it true that the people of the US aren't taught about evolution?
Posted: 12/7/2004 5:14:55 PM | Thanks foe that...it's interesting. It sounds to me as though the Canadian educational system is a bit different from that or those offered in the states.
Are the schools less overtly relgious in Canada?
Does anyone know if schools in particular parts of thew uS are more or less relgious. I get the impression that the Eastern places like Boston and New York and liberal places like San Francisco tend to be less held back by relgious dogma, and the deep south is more fundamentalist and backwards? | |
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| Is it true that the people of the US aren't taught about evolution?
Posted: 12/7/2004 6:24:58 PM | | yes it definatly differes by state. education in general varies greatly by state. like in the south they have very few programs for the devolopmentally disabled and the liberal states tend to have more programs for them. pretty much everything in the southern states are influenced more by religion, even political races. in the south religion seems to be a given in every part of life and the liberal states try to sepperate it from the state. | |
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| Is it true that the people of the US aren't taught about evolution?
Posted: 12/7/2004 7:08:12 PM | Fat Tire amber ale in hand, he sits down to tell a friggin righteous story, with the blessing of God himself!
Let me swing about on this baby slow like.
First off, Darwin announced that he did believe in god before he died. It a fact and I am glad he was finally able to reconcile his beliefs with the other things he saw to be truth.
(It’s always been my opinion that Darwin was always a believer in god, but was afraid to say it publicly in case people wouldn't take him seriously about hiss science, which they wouldn't at the time) Second, Darwinism USED to be a theory; it isn't anymore because there were just too many things that have since proven to be just a little bit wrong once you started digging. This isn't to say that Darwin was wrong; he just didn't have all the tools to really figure out the truth. Basically what he discovered was heredity, and the way that Natural Selection works. Also, here is some inside information. Evolution is not a theory; it is a fact of life. The only reason people say it is a theory is because their elders knew next to nothing about it and it threatens most of them. Also, this lets others explore it without pissing off these first people too much. But it is a fact and someday, it will be recognized as such.
Third (now this is a little aside), as an absolute believer in my God, it has always made me really sad that people somehow want to have the conclusion that it’s either one or the other.
Never mind that Evolution is a tool of God, one that he used to create every living creature on the planet and everything else that exists. Now back to my story...
In the beginning, there wasn't jack sh*t, except for GOD. God thought that this was pretty boring, and so since he was almighty and had infinite power and control over anything and that kinda stuff, he decided to create some things. First thing God created was a Quark (We think) and a whole bunch of other itty-bitty things I don wanna look up right now because it’s really not too important. What is important is that these things all come together and make what is called a proton. If you put a proton, a neutron, and an electron together, you got a hydrogen atom. Then god decided to put two protons, two neutrons, and two electrons together into one thing, this is called helium atom. If you add another hydrogen to this thing, it becomes Lithium (which is a metal and the other two were gasses kinda, but don't worry) and so on. So far, we discovered about 115 different combinations of the same thing that form different things. These are called the elements. There is a whole huge bunch of rules that govern the way this stuff works and we (humans) have only known about it for a hundred years or so. You know the old stories about alchemists that turn lead into gold, well, we can do that these days for real, just it's not cost effective if you know what I mean, but its not magic, its science! But God knew the whole time, see he invented it.
What we do know is that if you can study it till it makes sense; it makes the best, almost an absolute sort sense.
K so back to evolution...
Well after god made a planet, and it cooled down, there was still no oxygen, so he made these things that ate methane and sulfur, and pooped oxygen. These things used the power of the sun to create energy by transferring electrons between molecules made from O, carbon and nitrogen and sculpture and other elements, its called photosynthesis, but they weren't plants, they were bacteria. Or I guess, maybe bacteria's ancestors. Well, that would be plants ancestors too, but hey, why be so picky! I mean how can u be picky when god might of sent them her on a bunch of comets, o shoot, I’m messing it up, he didn't put them here, he put their parts here on the comets!
Well, these early things did their best to survive, and some of them evolved (mind you time has passed, the earth took about 800 million years to cool, so rock are only 3.8 billion years old, but since, the fig tree group is 3.5 billion years old, were between here and there)
The first little guys were called bacteriochlorophylls, and they did anaerobic photosynthesis, that means they put out no O2. These second little guys that put out oxygen from their photosynthesis are evolved to develop a second light reaction that used water as an electron donor and gave off O2 gas that created an oxygen environment. By the way, the water came from the comets too since they are water and dirt basically... Hell, I guess this is the story of how God made Adam from the soil.
During this same time, some of these guys became the first predators, called big eaters, or macrophages... they slimed up to a photosnthesiser and enveloped them for food. One of these photosynthesizes put out so much O2 that the only way they could survive was to learn how to deal with it without dying. Because oxygen is really toxic. Anyway, this little guy that could became mitochondria, they are in every cell of your body, and yea, they were bacteria.
So back to evolution. These Photosynthesizes that dealt with oxygen, well, they were so good at it that they created enough O2 that is so toxic, it killed everything else that it was poison to. Natural selection, the strong survive...
This great event was called the oxygen explosion, killed almost everything. Ok, onward... skip millions of years... Finally, there are plants and animal... but not humans.
By the way, people who believe in evolution do not think that man evolved from apes, we just think that man and apes evolved from the same ancestor, kinda like god made all the other elements out of different multiples of hydrogen's parts.
Anyway, that’s just a story of how things were before the Garden of Eden.
What’s the proof? Well, all living things are made from the same molecules, and all use the same biological systems to survive, god recycled. There are four different types of DNA and god uses them in all plants, animals and prokaryotes (bacteria and stuff)
More evidence :::----> same molecule is used to make ATP in bacteria as in humans, it’s called ATPase, don't know what god called it, but did god name Boogers Boogers? I’m not sure about that either... There are literally millions of different types of these examples, all equally indicative of evolution from one species to the next. BTW, a species is something that can breed with another and have babies.
Here is evolution in simpler terms...
There are these fish in the sea. One day a baby fish is born with a bigger set of fins (kinda like bigger ears) that let him swim a little bit faster, so he can catch food easier. This fish survives and has babies, all the babies have a bigger fin too, and so most of them survive to have their babies. A lot of the other fish that had a different momma who had a small fin get eaten by the sharks, so they don't have many babies. One hundred years later, all the fish have a big fin. one day a baby fish is born that is a little different coloring that blends in better with the surroundings, like camouflage, his babies are born the same camouflage, so one hundred years later, all the fish born have this camo cuz the sharks cannot see them and hungry sharks eat the ones they can see. This is also natural selection
Here is another story, called human selection. You are sick, you go to doctor, and he gives you antibiotics. You take half of them and feel better so you stop taking them because they made your tummy sick anyway. You throw them away but you haven’t killed all the bacteria, only the weak ones. Some gene that wasn't expressed before you started taking the antibiotics kicks in for like 3 percent of the bacteria as a sort of defense against the medicine you took. Something that worked for them a million years ago when they battled other bacteria for space and food but once they won, wasn't needed, so they packed it away in the genetic suitcase... Anyway, the bacteria that have the gene for antibiotic resistance breed and you give them to your brother right before you start to feel sick again. Now he has them too. You’ve just created a new strain of antibiotic resistant bacteria, human selection, but evolution just the same.
Who knows really the number of men’s days it took to for God to evolve Adam and Eve? But it happened, just as he planned.
Let me remind you that I tried to tell these stories in a way you could understand, maybe if you tell them to another; it won’t be in the same words... anyway, it doesn't need to be in red letters. Moses wouldn't know what the hell I was talking about.
Lters,
~m | |
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| Is it true that the people of the US aren't taught about evolution?
Posted: 12/7/2004 7:12:34 PM | | One thing that has always made my heart sad is the amount of division created between science and God by the religious conservatives. Why can't people just understand that these are gods rules anyway, gods tools to create? How many people have looked out and chosen to forsaken anothers god because that other person refused to see something so plainly onvious? I guess i am ahead of my time, people are still killing for God, like that isn't the worst misnomer ever... so sad. i guess in this alone i proclaim myself a prophet. | |
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| Is it true that the people of the US aren't taught about evolution?
Posted: 12/7/2004 8:18:26 PM | | For something to be a theory it must.. "a working hypothesis that is considered probable based on experimental evidence or factual or conceptual analysis and is accepted as a basis for experimentation" creationism doesn't even come close, I could write a book and say i created the world and there would be as much evidence to support my "theory" as there is to support creationism. | |
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| Is it true that the people of the US aren't taught about evolution?
Posted: 12/8/2004 8:26:21 AM | From Boston, here we were taught about evolution. My teacher had no sympathy on students who were religious and believed in creationalism (sp) he stated things that we had information about, science is science, theories that are brought and investigated and from that we recieve information.. Yes we have many unsanswered questions about evolution and many other things, but i just wonder where the proof lies when it comes to "GOD" and how he created the world..
God is having a belief, science is looking for truth through experiamentation and proof.
i dont know im rambling now. | |
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DMT
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Joined: 12/3/2004
Msg: 19 | |
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| Is it true that the people of the US aren't taught about evolution?
Posted: 12/8/2004 1:21:15 PM | | Never mind flies and monkeys. We share dna with almost all life. So I as well think God uses evolution to make us move forward genetically. The one problem I run across with evolution is that if humans are some of the more developed beings on the planet, the why do humans have more genetic errors than any other species? This issue to me actually takes a chunk out of creationism and darwinism. Part of me thinks that for evolution to work, a species' genes would get stronger and better, not viceversa. Alternately if God created us all at once, boy did he ever screw up. Proof is in the genes. Did you know there are more genetic differences between two human twins than two unrelated cheetahs? | |
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| Is it true that the people of the US aren't taught about evolution?
Posted: 12/9/2004 1:52:34 AM | | It has been supposed that Darwin renounced evolution on his deathbed. Shortly after his death, temperance campaigner and evangelist Lady Elizabeth Hope claimed she visited Darwin at his deathbed, and witnessed the renunciation. Her story was printed in a Boston newspaper and subsequently spread. Lady Hope's story was refuted by Darwin's daughter Henrietta who stated, "I was present at his deathbed ... He never recanted any of his scientific views, either then or earlier." | |
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| Is it true that the people of the US aren't taught about evolution?
Posted: 12/9/2004 1:29:13 PM | | But Wandering spirit-do YOU really beleive 7 days and seven nights? Complete with all the oil and dinosaur bones and stuff we can prove to be millions of years old? I think they gave up on us being the center of the universe about 500 years ago, didn't they? | |
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