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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 10/13/2005 6:44:45 PM | | I've been watching this type of sport since the early 90s. Anyone in that same situation? To me, this is my NFL, MBL, NBA... | |
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Qxs
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Joined: 10/12/2005
Msg: 2 | |
| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 10/14/2005 10:53:25 PM | I don't follow it.. but I remember watching it on vhs or dvd rental some time ago.. it was wicked then and it's wicked now.
I give it credit for being a very real sport, something like boxing I guess..
compared to WWF (e) wrestling which is silly..
Caught a match recently.. some lightweight or welterweight type class.. a championship fight & rematch.. same contender.. he submitted to the same hold twice!! it was pretty wild.. Umm hold was naked choke from behind I think..
forget their names.. | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 10/15/2005 9:31:17 AM | | i love it and now i watch ultimie fighter two...if u havent seen it its on spike tv at 10 its like big brother but u fight to stay... | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 10/15/2005 8:46:18 PM | | It sure beats boxing (todays boxing). I don't see how you could chose to watch it over the nfl or mlb. I would watch it over the nba any day. However, I would watch figure skating over the nba. | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 10/16/2005 3:16:46 PM | I have watched every one of them
You watch pride? I'd like to see Arlovski/Fedor matchup
Randy/Chuck 3 in feb!! Go Randy | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 10/17/2005 5:21:20 PM | | Yes, I watched the first one too....it's on tonight...I was in vegas back in august..met most of the guys from the first season...it was awesome | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 10/17/2005 10:47:37 PM | | And then Fedor would beat the crap out of Arlovski's entire family. | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 10/18/2005 7:05:24 AM | I have watched EVERY UFC very closely and evaluated every top fighter. Im not overly impressed.
Comparing it to the WWE is senseless... I have a good friend in the WWE and...its acting and entertainment. UFC is real scrapping. This, at least, I like. However, our experiences invariably dictate our opinions, and those that dont know better simply because of lack of exposure and nescience to real martial arts think the UFC is the bomb, which it...is not. UFC is entertaining... but certainly a far cry from a kumite, for example. UFC guys are certainly in awesome shape...but in the greater scheme of things, they are mediocre at best. You will never see the top echelon of whats out there by watching a UFC match. Thats a place where a master, a dan, a true sensi might send a STUDENT to fight as a part of his development... but in NO WAY is the UFC (or the pride series, or shoot wrestling tourneys) the top of the pile... well maybe the top of the mediocre pile.
There are different levels (even levels within each level)... let me share with y'all what they are:
-scrappers. Guys who can fight, like to fight, have the natural knack for it, but are untrained...
-martial artists. Someone whose training in a specific dicipline teaching them how to attack and defend using a system developed through the restraints and dynamics of the human physique, and geography
-warrior. Basically a combination of the first two, someone who has the heart, skill, and EXPERIENCE to fight.
- a martialist. Me. And a few others out there. We hide in dark places. We do not like to be seen. We battle with sanity on a daily basis. We are not trained to fight. We are trained to kill. Ask, and I can be more specific. Much more.
So yeah when I watch a UFC event...Im smiling, cuz..Im wondering to myself... how many seconds would it take to eliminate Tito... and then Liddel, and then Couture. Guess it would depend.. on whose rules were playing by!
Hope y'all continue to enjoy UFC..Im glad its bringing mixed martial arts to light fo the peons, but remember, youre only watchin the tip of the iceberg...
and you dont see lions fighting hyenas for sport, fun, money or fame. | |
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Qxs
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Joined: 10/12/2005
Msg: 11 | |
| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 10/19/2005 4:43:00 PM | If the objective of UFC was to kill the opponent.. it would be a one season show. Unless you mean better submission tactics .."eliminate"
Anyhow... yes, it would depend greatly on the rules..
Kumite, google is failing me... could you provide us with some links to some interesting info for that ? | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 10/20/2005 1:41:21 AM | | LOL@ guys who are too deadly for UFC/Pride. Do you actually believe that bullshit? | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 10/20/2005 6:26:48 AM | Yeah Robert, I actually believe that "shit" as you call it. I happen to be one. Lets see now... hmmm... kick measured at 76 mph with 700 + lb/sq.inch of force... most I could break was 11 slabs with an axe kick and 9 with an elbow strike.... imagine if that was someones spine.
and Ive broken necks with kicks that Id consider to be a 4 on a scale from 1-10 in terms of force applied... so yeah.. there are some people who are just too dangerous for the UFC... and I see key flaws in every fight I watch... I could just see Chuck Liddel trying to ground and pound me, and I, who will do anything to win, gets up with the remains of his jugular still in my mouth...
oh yeah they got them damned rules... personally Im waitin for a Mad Max world... no rules at all, and maybe we can better do what AIDS is doing...a forest fire to wipe out about 2/3 of the worlds populus, only better, cuz if we wipe each other out instead of a disease, theres a better chance of assuring that only the elite, the strongest shall remain to rebuild. Kinda like a ruthless Wild West on a large scale. Get rid of the old and the weak. This is seriously harsh shit as alot of people, including family and friends (and hell maybe even ME), will be eliminated, but for our species as a WHOLE... a lil anarchy is in order at the rate we're going. but thats maybe the topic for another forum...
I train from the school of thought that if you come across an opponent with a sword open handed, you let him chop one of your arms off so that you can pick it up with the other hand and use it to beat him to death with...
and you will NOT find a website about Kumite underground fights, as its arguable that they even exist. Theres alot out there that we havent seen and do not know about. One sensei I trained under did so in secret, as he was a 13th generation samurai (although officially disbanded, certain proud Japanese still consider themselves of samurai blood and still train and follow bushido... most are by day high powered business men) who would have been in deep shit had it been known that he was training me, a Gai-jin, hed be in deep doo-doo with the inner Japanese community... and taught me shit seldom known, like how some martial arts will teach you how to knock out, control or restrain a person with pressure points... he showed me 9 of the so-called 15 deadly points that can kill a person. He also taught me some other disturbing shit Im not at liberties to discuss... shit I didnt know existed til I saw it. Another one I trained under is currently training the Isreali Mossad... he showed me thats its possible to literally push and pull people using ki energy( I also watched him warn 2 black belts with attitude from Twin Dragons school in Toronto before he knocked them both out with one foot in one motion), and I met a 86 yr old akijutsu sensei who threw me around like a rag doll and could touch you in so many places (using traditional kata at that!) and put your ass to sleep. Hed smoke anyone in the UFC!
At any rate... we all can agree that the UFC is fun as hell to watch... very entertaining stuff and it beats the hell outta watching wrestling (I was offered a bodyguard job once for a WWE star, but couldnt take it...I got issues with U.S. Customs as well as immigration)...
theres a reference on my profile that will link you to my homepage about some of the shit Ive taken and done over the yrs...
Im a walkin book on this kinda thing, so if you wanna know something, fire away! I love talkin about this stuff... its my life. And maybe I can help any of you on your own journey.
l | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 10/20/2005 12:17:58 PM | | Now you are correct about the whole "rules" thing. MMA is a sport, not a death match. However I believe that one would be a fool to think that just because MMA guys fight fair inside the ring that they lack either the techniques or mindset to fight dirty on the outside. Thats just not a reasonable assumption. | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 10/20/2005 2:57:42 PM | True, true, I was referring to myself really... In my mind theres not really anything thats considered dirty. And theres a plethora of ways to permanently or fatally damage someone( and with enough training can become... instinctive) thats well within the confines of pretty much any organized mix martial art tournaments as well....
lets not forget that lil fact! I also watch the fights with a proverbial currycomb and see far too many opportunities for a match to be taken decisively by submission or k.o. and wonder, if they know what I know and can review tapes like I can then why dont they do it?? Hey, look how long it took them to render the guilotine choke out a passe submission? I remember all the blah blah about never turning your back on a Gracie, thinking what Id do if I DID, and finally someone figures it out and snaps a Gracies arm. Its kind of like... watching kids scrap in a school yard, but with alot more skill and violence(yay!). I dont really mean to discredit MMA and the UFC, just realize that they are NOT the cream of the crop out there! I know far too many aspiring UFC guys whose attitudes stink, because they have grown an ego. Yeah well I was there once too..along time ago. You lose that long before you reach your black belt with a real sensei, who teaches you alot more than what Ive seen in the UFC. Proofs in the pudding.
plus...I wonder how many UFC fighters... are hypnotists??? Theres one for you to chew on for a bit!!!!
Hmmm.. maybe I have revealed too much too soon young jedi...
lmao! | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 10/20/2005 3:24:34 PM | LOL@ guys who are too deadly for UFC/Pride. Do you actually believe that bullshit?
Yes.
I see this guys point completely. Many people view a fight as something to end, as truly..
self defence.
In that ring..a windpipe would be crushed within the first 2 minutes if they get near the other person dude.
Many people snap once a fight is surely on. The lion vs hyena parallel DOES apply. (death, paralysis, knock out, submission, them running away, being stopped and declared winnner, ANYTHING is better than possibly losing)
Kevin Smith had a tough time not snapping peoples limbs when he started. You could SEE that he had to fight himself NOT to snap that arm in certain cases. You could SEE his mind doing the math to NOT want to end that man by any means. Iand he could...the boy was ALL Muscle...and lots of it at that)
The guy is a killer dude.
Fighting for many is NOT about fun or profit dude.
I could just see Chuck Liddel trying to ground and pound me, and I, who will do anything to win, gets up with the remains of his jugular still in my mouth...
exactly.
Not to mention eye goo streaming down your fingers. | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 10/20/2005 3:46:05 PM | Why would someone with beyond UFC/Pride level skills not just dial themselves down a bit and fight pro? Fight pro in Japan and get huge money, huge societal respect, and an endless parade of hot groupies...why not. Even the most dangerous guys must dial it down a bit so they do not kill one another in training right?
And I am aware that MMA is not the only legit mindset out there. The Arnis/Kali guys are impressive and dangerous. Those Dog Brothers guys are really hardcore. Some of the WW2 combatives guys are also unspeakably dangerous... boxing, judo,wrestling...lots of hardcore legit guys and styles. I do have some issues around the reality of advances large weapon training though. Who the hell carries a sword or singlestick these days?
But anyway, I do not think there are people too dangerous for the UFC. Techniques, sure people, no.
I do not want to sound disrespectfull either but the whole "trained killer" mindset is a bit wierd. Who is teaching this stuff, ex military SF guys, CIA operatives? I mean most guys with a killing background are in prison, or on active military service not running a dojo at the local strip mall. | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 10/20/2005 4:00:51 PM | Frrosty, you warm my heart...
its good to know now and then that Im not alone out here...
"eye goo"..I love it
you completely captured the essence of what Im talking about. Kevin Smith... I couldnt have picked a better example.
And dude, between you and me.. the moral christian guy I was raised at is scared as hell when I snap outta the void and find myself blood drenched. Ever have someones blood squish between your toes? Or have your mom crying about AIDS and shit as she tries to help clean up the blood while the police are surrounding your house, and you yourself wonder what prompted you to..exert such heinous force to someone, regardless of the fact that they probably deserved it? Ever seen death in a mans eyes... you can see his life is flashing through his eyes? man its scary, partially cuz its... I dunno, like being on coke and mesc and acid at once. a buzz you love. And hate. One friend saw me take out this big time NHL star in.. I dunno maybe 6 seconds.. he said the sound of bone crunching bone sickened him and excited him. His words. So whose to say I aint gonna zone out again..this time in a ring?? I tried tournament fighting along time ago... Im banned from the ITKDA for using judo throws in a tournament...I didnt MEAN to break rules... it..just happened. And hey I fight.. to stay alive. Ive had my head fractured by aluminum baseball bats. Didnt even faze me. Ive been shot. Stabbed. Pool cues have snapped over my head like twigs. Shit the doctors freaked when they counted 9 prior rib breaks on my e-rays but only had five on file. My scars are real. I dont fight for fun. Im a big assed black dude that lives in a redneck town run by the Hells Angels...theyre my friends (even after I refused to train them), and my best friend from childhood is a certified nut (I got him into TKD and he used it to become a real badass... just got outta a Quebec pen for bombing bars...)So, where I live and how Ive grown can be described by an Iron Maiden song or two "Be quick or be Dead", and "you take my life, but Ill take yours too". All my tats relate to my martial art philosophies. Again, other than frrosty, reread my first entry here, esp. about the different "classes" of fighters Ive lived through. Oh and frrosty, thanks man. I do not know where you are in YOUR journey, but I think you are ready to read The Book of Five Rings, if you havent already.
And hey whens the next UFC big card coming up? I never said I didnt love watching it!!! | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 10/20/2005 4:40:28 PM | Mr paulson:
your nescience is entertaining!!
Allow me to clear a few things:
1) Fight for money?? Pride? Fame? I... Ill just leave that one alone. Youre just not catching what Im talking about are you. Once my switch is in the "ON" position... thats it man. there is no dialing down becase I m not thinking about winning. Or losing. What am I thinking? Ask frrosty he'll tell you! It aint money babes or fame!
By any means necessary. And quickly before the cops show up. Yeah thats happened. AT TOURNAMENTS.
2) Who runs around with a sword? I did, because it was a part of some of my rather "arcane" training. Cops confiscated that stuff...
3)Training is like a gun. It in itself is harmless. Put it into the wrong hands... deadly. And EVERYONE is dangerous!
4)There are many styles, that are different (do you even know why theyre so similarly different?? hmmmm?). All can be used with deadly application. I can teach you them all. So what. You have to still have that natural... something.. and most dont have it. Its beyond killer instinct..Im talkin about the inate ability to... just win. Genetics does come into play.. this I believe. Again..reread my earlier post, and ask yourself what you must acheive physically mentally and spiritually to ascend my lil ranking system. Whats the difference, for example, between a martial artist and warrior?
5)Who on earth said I was trained by a local strip mall dojo? If my one sensei ever heard that Id be sent to assassinate you for just saying that!!! (just kidding... I dont eat hash anymore! and there flies yet another quip right over your head!) You need to do more homework, thats all Paul. Its all about learning more and more stuff. I wonder how much of your life has been dedicated to fighting. How many scars you carry...I guess you havent been following closely or threated your way through my writings here on POF (I talk about martial arts in 2 other forums here.. what can I say, its my life).
I have trained with some pretty.. elite people. and some hardcore motherf*uckers. I could tell you training stories.. for YEARS man... and its all led me to the point of where I am. And man, youre really not focusing on all the trees in the forest.. youre missing so many things Im sayin.. its like you get locked onto one sentence or thought and not see that its further explained thru my prose... read, read, and then read again!!
Ill ask Pham if hes going to open up a strip mall dojo when hes done his life 25 bit, ok?
Or gladstone (a.k.a. the grasshopper) when hes out in 8 more years. HAHAHAHA OMG I just pictured clive in the UFC... hed be feeding on the crowd by the time the s.w.a.t. team took him down!!!
and one "instructor" lives now in Texas... he still tells me stories about creeping thru the jungles of Laos and Cambodia, where he wasnt supposed to be, with 80 lbs. of explosives strapped to his back ( he hates my tats, seein as he wasnt allowed to have any). You should hear his stories about high altitude drops! Hes a retired biker now and we still talk now and then. And these guys dont walk around teaching just anyone. I have been offered rare opportunities to train while standing on the street... do you know anything about auras? ki energy? Hell man I tried to see a psychic once and she freaked out. Another one I know personally is a world renowned psychic..we met on a phone convo..and she knew right away what I am. How the hell? Hey..it happened. I was there! So what Im talkin about I only know because Ive seen it and lived it and have had my life ruined by it. Im sorry but when I get into a fight, a real scrap.. I dont gve a shit about rules, eh. Im thinking about only one thing:
have you guessed it yet? | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 10/20/2005 4:46:59 PM | | P.S. Arnis/kali.. I forgot to appreciate your reference to those arts Paul!! I studied kali... a.k.a. Filipino stick fighting for quite some time. holy brutal! had a few ribs broke there! loved every minute of it... but in kali tournaments youre pretty heavily protected. and thats a weapons art not so much a MMA. Kali is not considered a full martial art by many..not standing alone by itself. KeNpo karate (a.k.a. American karate) styles, esp. the first of kenpo style brought to North America by the Japanese incorporated alot of kali... ever seen the movie Perfect Weapon? Prime example! | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 10/20/2005 5:08:21 PM | (even after I refused to train them),
You felt the question I was pondering.
Ever seen death in a mans eyes
yes.
Oh and frrosty, thanks man. I do not know where you are in YOUR journey, but I think you are ready to read The Book of Five Rings, if you havent already
I think, perhaps, it may be time. I have read the books of swords....
and other deep philosophy.
I will look for this book tomorrow sir.
P.S. Stay alive; I kind of like you dude.
Why would someone with beyond UFC/Pride level skills not just dial themselves down a bit and fight pro? Fight pro in Japan and get huge money, huge societal respect, and an endless parade of hot groupies...why not. Even the most dangerous guys must dial it down a bit so they do not kill one another in training right?
The man raises a great point here friend.
Once my switch is in the "ON" position... thats it man. there is no dialing down becase I m not thinking about winning. Or losing.
You need safety; a place where YOU could train..
for this.
I think you deserve some sunshine too, no sir? DMX would likely understand. I see you..feel you...you are real.
Get some sunshine my new friend. Death is not the only force. Perhaps "life" shows you something...well...more fun.
Even there; the innocents stay protected.
2) Who runs around with a sword? I did, because it was a part of some of my rather "arcane" training. Cops confiscated that stuff...
add whips, blowguns and shirokin; and you've summed up part of my childhood. IN itself traing..for sure. (that being the lesson from the police Seargent; and the brutal loss of all my toys) | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 10/20/2005 5:18:51 PM |
How many scars you carry...I guess you havent been following closely or threated your way through my writings here on POF (I talk about martial arts in 2 other forums here.. what can I say, its my life).
Nope, I have not been following your writings...but then again I am not your online stalker.
Do not take everything I say about TMA and strip mall dojos to heart. General criticisims about the state of TMA are not automatically directed at you. No need to come try and kill me in defence of your sensei. *locks doors just in case*
Obviously you have that killer instinct thing down.
Some of your stuff sounds like you have been partially influenced by Marc McYoung, am I correct?
As to that whole flick a switch thing to "On" thing I have to admit I disagree with that mindset. As the roman Philosopher Seneca said " Nothing is great that is not at the same time calm...gladiators are protected by skill and left exposed by anger". I mean surely you and your teachers/pupils/buddies can dial it down and train with one another as opposed to kill one another.
Anyway, I think we are reaching a sort of conclusion here anyway. Your philosophy is simply beyond MA as it relates to sport. I think you are underestimating the sport guys ability to be ruthless when needed, seeing that control as a weakness. But that is just me.
My personal take on MMA is that being able to be competitive at even a local level puts one so far ahead of the average tough guy physically and mentally that it is well worth ones time. There may be some guys out there who simply transcend this but I have yet to meet them.
The MMA mindset removes the "tough guy" mentality and replaces it with something much more valueable, a work ethic. Discipline, conditioning endless drills.
BTW I am really enjoying this discussion. | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 10/20/2005 5:20:27 PM | ^ What a terrific insight on this talk. (If I may say, of course, Robert)
I sometimes wish that some of the VERY good and decent guys I used to run with would have chose to use their skills in the lighter, shallower FUN ways. I have seen men commit to things so binding. ggrrr
I knew some very very tough men who played in even tougher games.
I will not get into it. Those who play assume the risks.
Sad but true; the word "pride" fits.
May Valhalla give them pleasure.
These men truly were real warriors. (some of them are still alive and not within jails....thank God)
All good warriors have Gods too.
May I fly through life for you....my friends. | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 10/20/2005 6:40:08 PM | Hey S, I clued in to your use of the self descriptive term martialist. Would I be correct in assuming that you are a Phil Elmore disciple?
It appears to be an interesting mindset, I intend to look further into this. | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 10/21/2005 6:35:37 AM | | McYoung and Elmore... kind of affirmed the path that I found I was chosen for. I aquired that term from The Book of Five Rings actually. Gave that book to my dad to read (hes a PHD in English and REALLY brainy) he read 1 1/2 pages and literally threw the book away like it was diseased... Ill be back to continue this! | |
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